I Know This Is Gonna Start A War>

[ATVMX905]

But, believe it or not, honda is falling behind. i mean look at the new z400 then look at the 400ex, and the 450r hasnt had nothing changed on it except graphics and they put crappy spindles on it. i dont think they will sell good this year at all.:(

[pro-rider46]

Originally posted by ATVMX905
But, believe it or not, honda is falling behind. i mean look at the new z400 then look at the 400ex, and the 450r hasnt had nothing changed on it except graphics and they put crappy spindles on it. i dont think they will sell good this year at all.:(

i do believe that they are falling behind, but i really do think that there is going to be a big change for 2009. Plus yamaha has had quads for 20+ years with out any major changes.

[greenblood01]

I'd have to agree.. they are falling behind in many catagories. Their dirtbikes are hanging in there, with the dual exhaust on the CRF250R, their ESP steering dampner, and the different ignition curves based on what gear you are in on the CRF450R.

However, they don't have a mid size, do it all kind of utility quad. The 420 Rancher is a sweet machine, and is light years ahead of the 350 as far as power and ergo's go, but they still don't offer a machine under 680cc with IRS. Sure, you can get EFI on the Rancher, or power steering on the Foreman, but they don't have one machine in this category that covers it all.

The 400EX got some nice improvements for 08, and its still a great machine for the trails, or someone who hits the track on occasion. But, its still an old low revving, air cooled RFVC motor, which just doesn't compete with Suzuki's new dual over head cam, liquid cooled, fuel injected Z400.

As far as the 450R goes, I'd say its everybit as good as the YFZ, and I like now Honda offers the HRC kit for easy performance gains, however, having ridden both, and from the looks of both, I like the way the YFZ handles better, and seems to rev quicker. I also like the fact that you don't need to purchace a kit to make the YFZ run like an HRCed Honda. Working at a Yamaha-Honda dealership, we sell more YFZs than we do 450R's, plain and simple.

[Ruby Soho]

i think honda is kind of falling behind, the thing is. they have solid machines. yea other companies are progressing but honda's quads are all great, and most of them rock solid reliable.

either way i still like them the best.

[greenblood01]

I'm still a big Honda fan also, and most of their machines are rock solid. However, there are a few that aren't so wonderful. Like the dreaded Rancher 400AT.. we've had several of them come in with transmission and Hondamatic unit problems. If you leave them in auto mode, it doesn't shift its self down up hill, slipping the hondamatic unit, creating problems, its a good thing 2007 was the last year for them.

I hope Honda can keep their reliable reputation and still keep up with the game.

[miller821]

And your finding this out... Just now?

They are known for some of the best quads, with some of the best reliability... But it's time for some new age in some cases.

[400exrider707]

Rumor in industry is that the 09 Honda 450R will be awesome!

You guys and I think alike, however Honda is a business corporation, and they do what sells quads. I bet to this day they still sell a ton of 400EX's. It may seem to have slowed here, but most of us are racing and not the average joe.

Originally posted by Ruby Soho
i think honda is kind of falling behind, the thing is. they have solid machines. yea other companies are progressing but honda's quads are all great, and most of them rock solid reliable.

either way i still like them the best.

x2. just wait it out and Honda will make the quad that everyone wants just like they did in the past. They might take awhile to get there hopefully they make some nice changes for 2009 but I dont go to another company just because they progress more or dont have the newest plastic design. Honda has had it down with almost all their other vehicles and Honda works in cycles if you havent noticed. They do a new model like redesigned, pay off the molds and such, make profit for a few years then redesign it again sometimes doing minimal things like graphics sometimes plastics. Then they do drastic changes. Honda is slow to change but they have a rock solid base for dependability. Hopefully Honda doesnt dissapoint people or they chnage peoples views about them for the better for 2009

[trx450r ryder]

alright honda is the best and they always will be,u just cant beat honda quality and their durability its not just all about how they look or if they have fuel injection ITS A HONDA .....DOES ANYBODY AGREE???:cuss:

[rollie]

I think all these new super-quads arent quite as good as they say they are

450R is still the most reliable(In my opinion)
Easiest to work on
The best platform to build a race bike(In my opinion)
parts are super easy to come by
$5 jets instead of $100's on programmer

That's just my take on it though, If i where to go buy a new bike tommrow, i would get another honda in a second.

[outacontrol]

well i normally dont get involved in the brand wars cuz everyone voices their opinion and if not everyone takes it as an opinion it turns into war. Ive owned a yfz from brand new, a honda, and now an 08 ltr. so coming from someone who has owned them, not just knew someone that had one. i can say the yfz broke all the walls down and to this day dominates the 450 market in many categories ( not all). the honda is easy to work on, which is good but i can say i was inside my honda motor more than the yfz. as far as the ltr goes, im very pleased, no its not the yfz arm pullin motor, but its smooth, crisp and handles awesome. I still dont think that the 04 Honda took anyone by surprise, it wasnt groundbreaking, it was just a stab at the yfz. I dont dislike honda, but in a lot of ways i feel they kind of take their time, because they dont have to change their quads every yr, because there is a lot of die hard honda owners that will continue to buy the ex's, and r's no matter what changes just like this post and many others have proved.

Honda's motto= Don't fix what isn't broken.

[trx450r ryder]

alright honda is the best and they always will be,u just cant beat honda quality and their durability its not just all about how they look or if they have fuel injection ITS A HONDA .....DOES ANYBODY AGREE???:cuss:

[450raider]

ok heres my take, i really have nothing bad to say about honda fine fine machines, same goes for the R's but ill just wait and see what the 09's brew up first (just like the rest of the quad world, waiting to see when and what hondas gonna fart), but likely it doesnt matter either way i wouldnt trade my kawi for one unless its a red efi'd ktm around the 7k range, then well talk, ive just had my differences with honda last year and im not gonna go into detail cause its done, just after i sunk years and thousands of dollars into them (from 2002 to 2007 i myself wouldnt have anything other than a honda, it was like a religion) and they were willing to lose my buisness over $900, so as it is now theres not much they can do to pull me back on board, but anything is possible....

and on another note the utility people are missing something, i feal that the yamaha ute lineup really is years ahead of the others (maybe except canam but id have to look further into it) i really liked the old woverines concept and would like to see anybody pick up on that and fill a gap.... JMO

[Ralph]

Take a look at this:

http://www.atvriders.com/atvnews/atvamx2008-07-amateur-racing-report.html

Also, i see alot of the pro privateer's running Hondas. I think saying they are out of the game is far off from the truth.

[rollie]

Originally posted by Ralph
Take a look at this:

http://www.atvriders.com/atvnews/atvamx2008-07-amateur-racing-report.html

Also, i see alot of the pro privateer's running Hondas. I think saying they are out of the game is far off from the truth.

i'd say honda's on to right about now! haha

but i wouldnt hold your breath for anything new in 09 with the economy the way it is right now:(

[Warnerade]

I personally dont know how the hell you guys even ride 450r's...I've raced/ridden probably close to 10, from stock to an A class bike to pro bike....and sheesh, i cant stand it

[wilkin250r]

Does a quad really NEED to have the latest and greatest gimmicks to stay on top?

Anybody here win significantly more races after switching to EFI? Or even if you're not racing, is your trail riding THAT much better with EFI? It's nice, it has advantages, but I don't think that means the old, tired, ancient, and outdated carbureted models are headed for the scrap heap. I know my carbureted model runs just fine.

I remember everybody looking for IRS, but not too many sport quads have stepped up there. I don't think Polaris is at the front of the pack because of that little latest and greatest gimmick.

And why does the 400EX need a bunch of improvements? It's not a racer, it's a mild-mannered trail quad, and it's great at it. Beyond liquid cooling, I don't see how that quad CAN improve. It's fantastic.

I want to hear from those with real, honest experience. Who has actually raced a 450r, and left it for another brand and won more races because of the switch?

[Warnerade]

Like I stated wilkin, I've riden many 450r's around on tracks...and I can not ride them worth a damn...I do great on my ltr's, won the Michigan state B class championship last year on my 06 and I started off damn good this season in A class winning the first few races on my 08 until I broke my wrist.

I'd say its due to the handling of the quad and its just my preference though, and not the efi vs. carb...although, I'll take my efi any day of the week

[trx310R#24]

Originally posted by ATVMX905
But, believe it or not, honda is falling behind. i mean look at the new z400 then look at the 400ex, and the 450r hasnt had nothing changed on it except graphics and they put crappy spindles on it. i dont think they will sell good this year at all.:(

i think all the 09's are going to have efi im like 89% sure

[trx310R#24]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
Does a quad really NEED to have the latest and greatest gimmicks to stay on top?

Anybody here win significantly more races after switching to EFI? Or even if you're not racing, is your trail riding THAT much better with EFI? It's nice, it has advantages, but I don't think that means the old, tired, ancient, and outdated carbureted models are headed for the scrap heap. I know my carbureted model runs just fine.

I remember everybody looking for IRS, but not too many sport quads have stepped up there. I don't think Polaris is at the front of the pack because of that little latest and greatest gimmick.

And why does the 400EX need a bunch of improvements? It's not a racer, it's a mild-mannered trail quad, and it's great at it. Beyond liquid cooling, I don't see how that quad CAN improve. It's fantastic.

I want to hear from those with real, honest experience. Who has actually raced a 450r, and left it for another brand and won more races because of the switch?

you have a point there efi is not going to make you a better rider!! its just going to save you time in jeting. a well jetted 450r will be faster then a efi quad

an as for leaving a quad for anoter quad i dont feel right on some quads like the kfx an yfz i dont know why but i just dont feel right

[katch26]

Originally posted by outacontrol
well i normally dont get involved in the brand wars cuz everyone voices their opinion and if not everyone takes it as an opinion it turns into war. Ive owned a yfz from brand new, a honda, and now an 08 ltr. so coming from someone who has owned them, not just knew someone that had one. i can say the yfz broke all the walls down and to this day dominates the 450 market in many categories ( not all). the honda is easy to work on, which is good but i can say i was inside my honda motor more than the yfz. as far as the ltr goes, im very pleased, no its not the yfz arm pullin motor, but its smooth, crisp and handles awesome. I still dont think that the 04 Honda took anyone by surprise, it wasnt groundbreaking, it was just a stab at the yfz. I dont dislike honda, but in a lot of ways i feel they kind of take their time, because they dont have to change their quads every yr, because there is a lot of die hard honda owners that will continue to buy the ex's, and r's no matter what changes just like this post and many others have proved.

I agree with what youre saying but I also feel Honda is a retroactive company where all the others are proactive. Honda never releases anything thats cutting edge, they let someone else make the flying leap and if it works they will release something similiar. As far as honda reliability....its questionable. Granted the 400 ex and below are reliable because they havent changed it in 10 years lol if they havent got all the bugs worked out by now then forget it. HOWEVER the 450r isnt anymore reliable than any other high performance machine out there. They all require alot of maintenance and none of them are going to be a gas and go bike. Just because you see a lot of people riding it doesn't make it the best IMO a lot of people ride the bike because parts are dirt cheap and readily available....Polaris quads are just as reliable as the honda but hard to find aftermarket parts and OEM parts take forever to get.

[Ruby Soho]

i wouldnt say honda isn't as proactive as the other brands, its just instead of rushing a new model or updates just to keep up with the other mfg, they take their sweet time and come up with a solid machine. they have the 400ex, which competes with the z400, they haven't REALLY updated it ever and its still basically neck and neck with the z400. the 450r is about the same as the yfz. and when its time honda will either update the 450r, or drastically change it to be the best 450 on the market. but they're not going to do small changes over each year just because other companies are. theres no need to, the want for 450r's is still huge

[8my_Cash]

I think Honda goes for a more broad of a market with the 450r than the other manufacturors and with this in mind they still make their money. The Ltr, KTM, and DS, are race ready out of the box but how many people actually race?


It seems that honda stay with the whole idea that you can make the 450r race competitive or you can leave it stock and have fun on it.

Honda looks to be staying with the whole mentality that anyone can hop on the 450r and enjoy it while the other mfg target the racer market.

Another thing to look at what will be a big improvement to the racer if the 450r was race ready with efi? Just think most hardcore racers swap the axle, arms, shocks, gusset the frame, buy new tires, ect. The only thing that is unchanged would be the efi and motor and sometimes thats even modified.

What it comes down to is if they add all of these other things to this 450 in 09 ...is the consumer really going to use this or are they going to change it for after market.

And if you are a hardcore racer, most of you 450r is changed out for better compenents that are setup and made for your preferrence instead of some generic all around setup made for anyone.

If the new 450 came out with huge improvements to the suspension and wheel base i probably would not buy it since I can do the same to my 07 with some aftermarket components.

All in all i personally dont seen anything extrememly new except efi and small tweaks to the drive train and chasis because why target a market that will just strip the bike down and change everything over to aftermarket anyway

just my two cents :)