piston & rings were shot on 525

[outlawjeff]

So I had to take my 525 irs into the shop because of it smoking and burning oil. I have less than 50 hrs on it. After a month and a half they just got the motor rebuilt and said the rings were completely gone. they have no reason why they wore out so soon. the only thing is that they said if you don't use the correct weight oil it will eat the rings up. I think that is BS. I did use the rotella t 5-30 synthetic oil for about 2 oil changes though, I really don't think that the oil in 6 rides would cause my rings to go bad. Just though i would share this in case anyone else's bike is smoking. The dealer ended up replacing the piston rings and had to have the cylnder honed out and all valve guides and seals with all the gaskets replaced. i will be picking it up from the dealer on monday. And all of this was done on extended warranty.

[Outlaw 50]

Rotella-T synthetic oil only comes in 5w-40. I've been running it for two years in my quad and no problems.

How did you break the engine in and at what intervals did you change the oil and filters?

[outlawjeff]

you are right it is the 5-40 and i took it easy for 2 full tanks of gas and i changed the oil and filters after every 3 rides, and only used the rottella t for 2 oil changes. The dealer told me the only way for the rings to get tore up like that is using the wrong weight oil, as per ktm and polaris. I really think that is horse ****, I have owned atvs for my whole life and rebuilt them from ground up and never heard of or seeing oil causing rings to wear down on any engine at that. Oh and i also clean my air filter after every ride so there is no chance of dirt causing it.

[sheriff525]

Just an FYI to everyone but I heard that Polaris did not do a good job of tightening the clamps around the carb. There are three 1. airbox to carb 2. carb to rubber tubing. 3. Rubber tubing to intake.

If yours was not tight it could allow for bits of dust and dirt to pass by and get into the engine causing the rings to do exactly what happened to you. I know when I checked mine it was not as tight as I would have made it. Plus when your under throttle it will grab air anywhere it can and suck in what ever it can!


CHECK YOUR CLAMPS!!!

[Rig]

My 07 only has two clamps. One: Airbox to carb, Two: Filter to airbox. The rubber tube goes straight thru the airbox and attaches to the air filter.:confused:

[sheriff525]

yes you are right RIG but now look at the other end of your carb and you will find two on the engine side and one on the filter side. tighten them all!

[Outlaw 50]

I call B.S. on the dealership....
I have been running Rotella-T for the last three years in my quads. No problems in any of them.
This is the oil change schedule for the newest quad, an Outlaw 500 2006.

Oil/Filter changes are as follows with Rotella-T oil and HiFlo filters:
1st) 1hr.......PS-4 oil (Polaris factory oil)
2nd) 2hrs......Rotella-T 15w-40
3rd) 4hrs......Rotella-T 15w-40
4th) 8hrs......Rotella-T 15w-40
5th) 10hrs.....Rotella-T 5w-40 synthetic
6th) 20hrs.....Rotella-T 5w-40 synthetic
7th) 30hrs.....Rotella-T 5w-40 synthetic
8th) 40hrs.....Rotella-T 5w-40 synthetic
9th) 50hrs.....Rotella-T 5w-40 synthetic

The engine break-in was the Mototune method, using a combination of street and offroad riding...Google it for details.

Here's a small sample of the info on break-in:

What's The Best Way To Break-In A New Engine ??
The Short Answer: Run it Hard !


Why ??
Nowadays, the piston ring seal is really what the break in process is all about. Contrary to popular belief, piston rings don't seal the combustion pressure by spring tension. Ring tension is necessary only to "scrape" the oil to prevent it from entering the combustion chamber.

If you think about it, the ring exerts maybe 5-10 lbs of spring tension against the cylinder wall ...
How can such a small amount of spring tension seal against thousands of
PSI (Pounds Per Square Inch) of combustion pressure ??
Of course it can't.

How Do Rings Seal Against Tremendous Combustion Pressure ??

From the actual gas pressure itself !! It passes over the top of the ring, and gets behind it to force it outward against the cylinder wall. The problem is that new rings are far from perfect and they must be worn in quite a bit in order to completely seal all the way around the bore. If the gas pressure is strong enough during the engine's first miles of operation (open that throttle !!!), then the entire ring will wear into
the cylinder surface, to seal the combustion pressure as well as possible.


The Problem With "Easy Break In" ...
The honed crosshatch pattern in the cylinder bore acts like a file to allow the rings to wear. The rings quickly wear down the "peaks" of this roughness, regardless of how hard the engine is run.

There's a very small window of opportunity to get the rings to seal really well ... the first 20 miles !!

If the rings aren't forced against the walls soon enough, they'll use up the roughness before they fully seat. Once that happens there is no solution but to re hone the cylinders, install new rings and start over again.

Fortunately, most new sportbike owners can't resist the urge to "open it up" once or twice,
which is why more engines don't have this problem !!

An additional factor that you may not have realized, is that the person at the dealership who set up your bike probably blasted your brand new bike pretty hard on the "test run". So, without realizing it, that adrenaline crazed set - up mechanic actually did you a huge favor !!

[katch26]

what are you jetted out....too lean or too rich will also take a tole on your piston

lean - obviously make the motor run hotter
too rich - the unburnt gas will actually dilute the oil causing the rings to go quickly

"Why Jet? If it's too rich, the extra fuel will wash the oil off your cylinders and wear out your pistons, cylinders, and rings quickly (no oil), in addition to building up deposits on your valves, heads, and piston tops. If it's too lean, the engine will run very hot, misfire, and can eventually lead to a burnt valve(s). Get it right!"

[katch26]

I run rotella in the ol preddy with no problems either.....really good oil. There is def some truth to what sheriff525 is saying....BUT...in my experience the hose clamps that they use suck so whether or not they actually tightened them they suck anyways. I replaced mine with auto hose clamps and they will take a lot more pressure. IMO

[Evasiveone]

My 525 does use the good auto style hose clamps and not the cheap ones like on the Predator.

[katch26]

Originally posted by Evasiveone
My 525 does use the good auto style hose clamps and not the cheap ones like on the Predator.

wierd the parts breakdown uses the same part number as the 05 pred for the carb clamp (7080413)...and the one on mine is a peice.

[outlawjeff]

no i am not lean or rich i am running a 165 main and stock pilot jet with 3 turns on the screw. does any one use the ams-oil 0-40 in the 525?

[OutlawBill]

Amsoil 20-50 with Z-Max works for me

[Evasiveone]

Originally posted by katch26
wierd the parts breakdown uses the same part number as the 05 pred for the carb clamp (7080413)...and the one on mine is a peice.

I have seen one '07 525 that used the clamps you are talking about but all the others used the good ones. I have not payed attention to see what style the '08 are using. Got me curious now I will have to look at the next one I see.