synthetic oil

[plunge]

i'm using bel-ray exp semi-synthetic motorcycle oil in my quad, and was just wondering what sythetics others were using, also prices and where to buy. i was thinking about changing to the bel-ray thumper oil, and i found it for about $30/gallon. i'm just wondering about better values from other brands or if anyone knows good places to buy their oil. thanks

[mooseracerX]

I'm going to be getting some of that Bel-Ray thumper oil next weekend. The guy from the dealer suggested it. He said that's all he runs and it keep the quad nice and cool. I need nice and cool because I'm using cheap 10w40 Valvoline ATV wet clutch oil.

[anykine]

I been using Fully synthetic Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40. Seems to run ok. If anyone knows a better Fully synthetic please post.

[NacsMXer]

I'm running Shell Rotella T full synthetic 5w40 (blue jug). It's a pretty darn good full synthetic for the price, comparable to the quality of Mobil 1. Wet clutch safe and keeps your motor extremely clean. Best part about it is it can be had for about $15 a gallon at your local Walmart.

http://www.motorcyclebloggers.com/images/angrybob/2005/july/rotella_syn.jpg

[mooseracerX]

Is that ATV wet clutch oil? It looks like plain car oil which you can't use or it will burn up the wet clutches.

[NacsMXer]

Originally posted by mooseracerX
Is that ATV wet clutch oil? It looks like plain car oil which you can't use or it will burn up the wet clutches.

It is not ATV specific, but that does not mean that it will burn up your clutch. You don't HAVE to use ATV specific oil FYI...you just have to do some research and know what's in it before you go ahead and run it. Oils that are not wet clutch safe contain friction modifiers or molybdenum....this oil does not contain any. I run it in my quad and my pitbike with no problems.

I have some old Mobil 1 15w50 "red cap" oil that is made for cars that I and a lot of others on this site used to run religiously. It has been since discontinued. It does not contain friction modifiers so it is safe for wet clutches. Most newer formulations of automotive Mobil 1 DO contain friction modifiers so I don't run it in my quad anymore.

Originally posted by anykine
I been using Fully synthetic Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40. Seems to run ok. If anyone knows a better Fully synthetic please post.

Mobil 1 hands down best oil

[STUNTIN400EX]

i have been told to stay away from full syn. with anything that is a wet clutch? i'm no chemist just what i have been told!

[anykine]

what is best for the clutch?

[plunge]

thanks for the info on what you guys are using. sythetic is fine to use, you just need to use oil that doesn't have moly. I was wondering about the mobil 1 because i read somewhere that ALL mobil 1 has some moly in it. i don't know much about mobil 1 never used it, so someone could have just made that up and put it on their site, it was some motorcycle site.

[Z15]

Nothing but Amsoil in my equipment.

Where in UP are you located?

Contains no friction modifiers

http://www.synthetic-oil.com/0W-40qt.jpg0W-40 Synthetic 4-Stroke Power Sports (http://www.amsoil.com/redirect.cgi?zo=34396&page=storefront/aff)

[boosted3g]

Im switching to Amsoil after this weekends ride. Finally ran out of the Honda oil. Ive run conventional honda oil since new so ill let everyone know if i can feel a difference.

[kilgoja]

i switched from the honda gn4 oil to the honda hp4 and i noticed that the shifting was a little smoother and it seems to run a bit cooler...hard to tell...lol

[NacsMXer]

Originally posted by kilgoja
i switched from the honda gn4 oil to the honda hp4 and i noticed that the shifting was a little smoother and it seems to run a bit cooler...hard to tell...lol

HP4 gold is a conventional/synthetic blend i.e. semi-synthetic. Your motor will run smoother with synthetic than conventional. HP4 is decent oil, I used to run it when my motor was stock...but it gets expensive at $8+ a quart....and it's not even a true full synthetic. It's one of the reasons I like the Shell Rotella full synthetic so much, you get a good quality full syn for around $3.75 a quart instead.

Here's some good reading on Shell Rotella T full syn in motorcycle engines, moly, etc.

http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?threadid=115524

Amsoil is undoubtedly a better full syn oil, but seriously expensive stuff as well. I'd run it if I had some type of inside hook up on it :p

[NacsMXer]

Originally posted by plunge
thanks for the info on what you guys are using. sythetic is fine to use, you just need to use oil that doesn't have moly. I was wondering about the mobil 1 because i read somewhere that ALL mobil 1 has some moly in it. i don't know much about mobil 1 never used it, so someone could have just made that up and put it on their site, it was some motorcycle site.

I've read the same, that some wet clutch-safe synthetics can have trace amounts of moly and still not affect clutch operation on a non-worn out clutch.

What I am pretty certain of is this, pretty much all automotive Mobil 1 nowadays is not safe to use in motorcycle engines due to the friction modifiers it contains. If you want to run Mobil 1 in your quad you are restricted to running MX4T, motorcycle-specific Mobil 1. Again, good stuff to run, but not the best value out there at around $9.50 a quart.

[Pipeless416]

i run the rotella t just like nacsmxer during the winter, and mobile 1 20w50 mx4t during the summer. its $20 in oil for each change, but it keeps the cool, and doesn't seem to break down very quickly at all.

[RaginRedneck]

Not to hijack the thread, but I was told not to run synthetic oil during the break in period.

Does anyone know why?

If this is case when can I start running synthetic? 20 hours?


Thanks

[NacsMXer]

Originally posted by RaginRedneck
Not to hijack the thread, but I was told not to run synthetic oil during the break in period.

Does anyone know why?

If this is case when can I start running synthetic? 20 hours?


Thanks

Synthetic just lubricates/protects too well to allow proper engine break-in. Using it won't allow the rings to wear and make a good seal against the fresh cross hatch on the cylinder walls, you won't get a good cam break-in against fresh rockers, etc.

On a fresh motor buy a case of cheapo 10w40 and change it often. By the 3rd-4th tank of fuel you should be broken in pretty well if you ride it hard enough. You can always stay on the conventional oil a little longer and switch to synthetic later if it makes you feel more comfortable.

[Z15]

Since all ATV's come with conventional mineral oil its only makes sense to change to synthetic at the first oil change interval as stated in the owners manual. New engines can generate high levels of wear metals and contain contaminates from assembly. By allowing the engine to run to the first scheduled oil/filter change these contaminates will be flushed out with the oil and filter prior to installing Premium Synthetic Oil.

Amsoil synthetic can be used during the break in cycle worry free per Amsoil. Lots of cars now come factory filled with synthetic (my Cadillac CTS did) so that theory that a engine won't break in properly on synthetic oil is myth.

Lubricants are derived from seperate groups of base stocks. Crude oil, petroleum based oil (mineral oils) are from a group I or II. Synthetic oils are from group III and IV.

Group III synthetics would be Mobil 1 oil and most all other major oil company brand synthetics like Pennzoil, QS, Castrol, you name it. Gr. III base stocks are derived from crude oil. A tip off to a Gr. III is the use of the term Full Synthetic.

GROUP IV is the best base stock available. It costs more, but it is the best. Gr. IV base stocks are derived from pure chemicals like PAO (poly-alpha-olefin) and not from refined crude oil. Amsoil is a Gr, IV synthetic. There are others but I don't know enough to list them all but NONE carry a major oil company brand. Amsoil, Red Line etc are Gr. IV.

[AnDy7]

I use the Amsoil also. i like it

[08Honda400ex]

how good is the amsoil

[Z15]

AMSOIL has always formulated its products to be the absolute best, continually researching ways to make their already outstanding products even better. AMSOIL has 35 years (since 1972) of experience blending premium extended drain synthetic oils--that’s 35 years worth of proven performance in the field! No one else even comes close to this amount of experience with synthetic lubricants. Other oil companies, however, are beholden to shareholders, and one could speculate that their incentive is to maximize profit. These companies formulate oils down to a price, rather than formulating them to be the best product they can be. Then, they price their products to maximize profits. This is completely opposite from the approach AMSOIL has taken over the last 35 years!

Amsoil is headquartered in Superior, Wisconsin (Duluth,MN).

[kilgoja]

Originally posted by RaginRedneck
Not to hijack the thread, but I was told not to run synthetic oil during the break in period.

Does anyone know why?

If this is case when can I start running synthetic? 20 hours?


Thanks


well i used the regular honda gn4 oil when i did my first oil change....20hrs.....then i switched to the honda hp4 semi-synthetic at the next oil change....but the honda hp4 semi-synthetic says it's ok to use during break-in...it's on the label...

anyways all full synthetic oils have the same base oils as regular oils....you can read about it on the mobil 1 website.. www.mobil1.com ....there's still some debate about there being any difference between car oils and motorcycle oils....the main thing is that the 400ex has a wet clutch system so you need an oil that doesn't have moly additives like these guys have been saying


my car came with mobil 1 full synthetic from the factory so yes you can break an engine in on synthetic oil despite the beliefs that you can't...the reason is that technically there's no such thing as a full synthetic oil...they all have some base oils in them....there is alot of misinformation out there nowadays about oils and such...alot of it is there is confusion about older cars compared to newer ones.....just go read on the mobil 1 website...i found alot of info on there

[Z15]

the reason is that technically there's no such thing as a full synthetic oil...they all have some base oils in them....there is alot of misinformation out there nowadays about oils and such

GROUP IV Amsoil is a 100% Full SYNTHETIC oil consisting of all Poly-alpha-olefins (PAO's). Group IV is the best base stock available. It costs more, but it is the best. AMSOIL uses the best base, adds the best additives to it to make the best oil. This is why AMSOIL guarantees up to 25,000 miles or 1 year between changes.

PAOs are specially designed chemicals that are uniquely made from alpha olefins. PAOs are used in many synthetic products such as lubricants, greases and fluids, and have emerged as essential components in many industries and applications.

The increase in PAO applications is largely driven by the stability of the PAO molecule, a highly purified ethylene derivative. This stability, along with a host of other unique performance characteristics, makes PAOs far superior to mineral oils in a variety of uses.

PAOs have many advantages over mineral oils:

* Greater oxidative stability
* Superior volatility
* Excellent low-temperature viscosities
* Consistent, quality basestock
* Extremely high viscosity index
* Excellent pour points
* Freedom from impurities

Group III synthetics would be Mobil 1 oil and would fit into your logic.

But there are true synthetic oils but few companies sell them beside Amsoil. Red Line and Royal Purple also but they are small in size compared to Amsoil who started the synthetic oil market back in 1972.

Check out the AMSOIL website for more Info (http://www.amsoil.com/redirect.cgi?zo=34396&page=index)

BTW - My CTS also came with synthetic oil from GM but as soon as the Oil Change Light came on I put in Amsoil and used nothing else since. In 25,000 miles it has not used 1 drop of oil so it must have broken in just fine.

[Pipeless416]

ok thanks, do we have any other sales reps? :rolleyes:

[plunge]

Originally posted by Z15
Nothing but Amsoil in my equipment.

Where in UP are you located?

Contains no friction modifiers

http://www.synthetic-oil.com/0W-40qt.jpg0W-40 Synthetic 4-Stroke Power Sports (http://www.amsoil.com/redirect.cgi?zo=34396&page=storefront/aff)


i live in vulcan. it's by iron mountain and norway.
i'm going to start using amsoil next oil change, one of my buddies has a dealer license so i can get a decent deal on it.

[boosted3g]

Well just back from the Treverton coal hills and Amsoil does keep the engine cooler than GN4. Hammered it all day in 95 degree weather and left the YFZ's scratching their heads. Couldnt have been a better day.

[kilgoja]

Originally posted by Z15
GROUP IV Amsoil is a 100% Full SYNTHETIC oil consisting of all Poly-alpha-olefins (PAO's). Group IV is the best base stock available. It costs more, but it is the best. AMSOIL uses the best base, adds the best additives to it to make the best oil. This is why AMSOIL guarantees up to 25,000 miles or 1 year between changes.

PAOs are specially designed chemicals that are uniquely made from alpha olefins. PAOs are used in many synthetic products such as lubricants, greases and fluids, and have emerged as essential components in many industries and applications.

The increase in PAO applications is largely driven by the stability of the PAO molecule, a highly purified ethylene derivative. This stability, along with a host of other unique performance characteristics, makes PAOs far superior to mineral oils in a variety of uses.

PAOs have many advantages over mineral oils:

* Greater oxidative stability
* Superior volatility
* Excellent low-temperature viscosities
* Consistent, quality basestock
* Extremely high viscosity index
* Excellent pour points
* Freedom from impurities

Group III synthetics would be Mobil 1 oil and would fit into your logic.

But there are true synthetic oils but few companies sell them beside Amsoil. Red Line and Royal Purple also but they are small in size compared to Amsoil who started the synthetic oil market back in 1972.

Check out the AMSOIL website for more Info (http://www.amsoil.com/redirect.cgi?zo=34396&page=index)

BTW - My CTS also came with synthetic oil from GM but as soon as the Oil Change Light came on I put in Amsoil and used nothing else since. In 25,000 miles it has not used 1 drop of oil so it must have broken in just fine. yeah i was just going by the mobil 1 level....you can't even get amsoil around here unless u buy it online...i haven't seen it in any stores....i'm sure it's a great oil as well as redline or maxima or whatever it is but that's not readily available around here and it costs more i'm sure...lol...i just use the honda stuff hp4 without moly

[Z15]

i live in vulcan. it's by iron mountain and norway.

Know the area well. I am up in the Copper County. There is big dealer up here who has all the products in stock.

Spent lots of time over the years working around the IM area. We did a lot of GPS Survey work there for US2 from Powers to Wis state line.

[honda729]

can you run Royal Purple, I have it in my truck with amazing results, but i dont know if it has moly?

[chayes627]

royal purple does have a motorcycle oil

[madmax400ex]

Just wondering, i have been running HP4M - with moly
how bad is this stuff. From what i have been reading it doesn't sound good. I have ran with it for only about 6 hours worth of riding, and i have a extra 2 quarts. Should i change my oil and get rid of the other quarts or will i be safe running it on another oil change.

[madmax400ex]

Originally posted by madmax400ex
Just wondering, i have been running HP4M - with moly
how bad is this stuff. From what i have been reading it doesn't sound good. I have ran with it for only about 6 hours worth of riding, and i have a extra 2 quarts. Should i change my oil and get rid of the other quarts or will i be safe running it on another oil change.

BUMP

[Z15]

Does your machine have a wet clucth?

If so, friction modifiers which Moly is, are not recommended. Friction modifiers eliminate or reduce friction but wet clutches need friction to function properly.

From what I understand, HP 4M is for racing only. If you are running at redline all the time, ok but for normal riding its not the oil to use.

[DementeD]

definitely ditch the moly ..since were in the 400ex section im takin it as thats what u have..so yes change it and use the hp4 instead of hp4m..

[madmax400ex]

Yes it is a wet clutch - 2001 400ex.
So ditch the moly crap. That sucks i paid like 8 bucks a quart. So i am guessing the moly will eat up a clutch.
Oh-well live a learn.

So does anybody need 2 quarts of HP4M - LOL.
thanks for the advice