5 seconds turned to nightmare

[Honda#4]

Well today I finally got my oil ans such for the quad and I got it to crank great but had to put the charger on so it had enough power to turn over so anyway I got it to start put a new plug in but then I tried to drive around and my clutch still isnt working yet then I see this trail of oil and it looked like it was coming from the base gasket so I just cranked it over and sure enough it is so now I gotta tear the whole motor out once again and start over. Worst damn day of my life. I dont even know what to do now.

[madmax400ex]

Holy Crap that freaking sucks! All that work for a simple gasket.
I have been keeping track of all your work with the rebuild you have been doing, cause i am probably going to do the some thing this winter, so i have been taking good notes. Wish i could help you with the clutch problem, but i have never worked on the clutch - (YET LOL.
Well keep your head up - you'll have it finished in no time, and it will run like a raped ape!
Good Luck!

[mcwilly]

Damn dude. That sucks. Well, look on the bright side........at least it started.

[NacsMXer]

Originally posted by Honda#4
Well today I finally got my oil ans such for the quad and I got it to crank great but had to put the charger on so it had enough power to turn over so anyway I got it to start put a new plug in but then I tried to drive around and my clutch still isnt working yet then I see this trail of oil and it looked like it was coming from the base gasket so I just cranked it over and sure enough it is so now I gotta tear the whole motor out once again and start over. Worst damn day of my life. I dont even know what to do now.

The base gasket at the bottom of the jug? That does suck after a fresh rebuild but it's not too bad to replace/fix, just a hour or two of time. Look on the bright side, at least you caught the leak before you did some permanent damage to the motor!

[Honda#4]

Yea thats the one,Yea I guess your right, but I still did it all for nothing and im still really mad at myself, I feel really dumb now. I had such high expectations of this thing being a monster machine but I guess I failed at it.

I know it aint bad to replace its the time im all worried about time I really dont have now, guess its gonna wait till winter.

[mcwilly]

Originally posted by Honda#4
Yea thats the one,Yea I guess your right, but I still did it all for nothing and im still really mad at myself, I feel really dumb now. I had such high expectations of this thing being a monster machine but I guess I failed at it.

I know it aint bad to replace its the time im all worried about time I really dont have now, guess its gonna wait till winter.

Wait till Winter?! :eek2: Hell, it's a mistake anybody could've made. Be glad it's just a gasket. Is this your first build?

[Phillburt57]

Tearing it apart will be faster the second time around it's not so bad anyone could have done it.

[DementeD]

Originally posted by Honda#4
Worst damn day of my life.

Worst day of your life...so far.. -Homer Simpson


sry oppurtunity knocked.. keep ur head up..

[Honda#4]

Yea its my first build, I guess I just need to find that happiness when I first started my build and I havent found it yet I guess, I always say to my soon to be wife that tomorrow will always be a better day.

My mind is going around in circles so I apologize if im saying a bunch of nonsense,I guess i'll just sleep on it for the night and get to work hopefully on it tomorrow. All I kinda ask from you guys is find a way to once again motivate me please cuz I could use it.

[Honda#4]

Here's a pic of the problem

[400ex28]

Same thing happend to mine man a couple years ago, just don't take the whole motor out of hte frame. pull the top end off throw and new gasket on with some sealer and put it back together only took an hour or so.

[Honda#4]

Problem with that is I dont have a well built garage, It didnt take long for me to pull the motor plus while im at it I gotta rejet anyways.

[DementeD]

my biggest problem..lack of tools and a good place to work..i have to work under a carport with very limited tools..no air tools no tq wrenches..just good ol metric sockets/wrenches and hope i dont over tighten

[400ex28]

Well then just do it on a nice day on a weekend or holiday.

[awsomeaussies]

Dude I feel for yeah. I just got threw putting a 416 in my bike. First time ever tearing into a motor. Pretty scary:scary: The first time I put it together, I wasn't getting any compression. Had to take it apart again, and realized I put my piston in backwards:o So I felt like a dumba**:rolleyes: I had to send c&d my topend for the second time so they could replace the intake valves, since they bent. Second time around I had a friend help me, so I didn't screw anything else up. And she fired right up! Only took a couple hours or so to reassemble. So after months of trying to get this "seemed to be easy mod" working... it finally paid off!

[Honda#4]

I'm just glad the thing fired up, I had to put my charger on it to get the battery back up to par but I didnt realize how hard it is to turn over this much comp now maybe im not jetted right which im not and maybe my gas is not right but I was a bit shocked at how much power you need.

I have the base gasket already ordered and ill be sure to put more sealer down this time.

I was hoping to get everything ready for QOTM but thats not happening no more.

Basically the way I figure is if I would have taken my quad to the dealer last time and now this time I would have spent over $1K in labor so I figure this is a free teardown.

[xcracer416]

Originally posted by Honda#4
I'm just glad the thing fired up, I had to put my charger on it to get the battery back up to par but I didnt realize how hard it is to turn over this much comp now maybe im not jetted right which im not and maybe my gas is not right but I was a bit shocked at how much power you need.

\ those starter clutches dont like alot of power/with compression. im on my 5th one in 4 years after my build.

[Honda#4]

Are there any batteries that have better cranking power?

[Honda#4]

Well I somewhat started today but didnt get very far got a few motor mounts off.

[Pipeless416]

are you pulling the entire engine? you can get to the base gasket by just taking the head off and leaving the bottom end in the frame. also, hayabusa batteries provide a lot more cca's, but i believe they're about half an inch taller than the stock battery.

[Honda#4]

Yea the whole things comin out, I dont want a whole bunch of dust get in my motor from our driveway being right next to our garage. Plus I dont have a decent garage with a hard surface, it's easier for me to work in my basement were all my tools are.

Is it possible to get a model number so I know which battery to buy?

I guess having all the bags I marked is gonna pay off afterall LOL!

[Pipeless416]

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=268542&highlight=hayabusa+battery
that thread should help you out as far as the battery goes. sounds like its quite a bit more expensive. nice to know it is an actual direct replacement as far as the dimensional aspects are concerned. i still don't know exactly where to get them except maybe c&d, maybe pappy still carries them, or a suzuki dealer. how far are you from the wis/illinois border?

[Honda#4]

I guess for a while i'll just put my charger on just to get a few ride times outta it when its redone again, thanks Pipeless for the thread.

I'm 43 miles north of Greenbay so im thinkin around 4 hours to the border.

[katch26]

been there done that lol at least you have a covered carport. When I did my predator, as soon as I took the top end off it would start to drizzle put it back together and push that heavy sob into the shed it would stop. After about 3 times you just gotta call it a day :). One question are you torquing the head back down after the motors back in the bike? if not seems like that would be your problem.
Mike

not to insult you r anything so don't take it like that but its an easy enough mistake

[Honda#4]

Everything has been torqued to spec, No insult taken I know it could happen to anyone, I guess it cant be right the first time either way it gives more know how tearing it apart and putting it back together, being I that I never have messed with motors ever in my life I think I did rather well.

[katch26]

now I dont know a ton about the 400's but at what size do you need to move to stronger headbolts...I know thats another thing

[Honda#4]

11:1 comp is max on the headstuds, my motor isnt really a true 11:1 though so I should be good.

[katch26]

aight well I'm all out of ideas lol

[Honda#4]

I appreciate the help man thanks.

[bens250ex]

did you use hd head studs? when i did my 440 12:1 i went ahead and put in a set og hd studs. haven't had a problem yet and its been going for about a year.

[NacsMXer]

Originally posted by Honda#4
Everything has been torqued to spec, No insult taken I know it could happen to anyone, I guess it cant be right the first time either way it gives more know how tearing it apart and putting it back together, being I that I never have messed with motors ever in my life I think I did rather well.

Don't sweat it man you should have seen the first time I tore into/rebuilt my 400 into a 440....

A couple hours into the top end rebuild I was just getting finished buttoning it all up. Put the freshly sleeved/bored jug in it, new Wiseco 89mm piston, torqued the head down, put a new Webcam in it, put "red" loctite on the cam bolts, coated all vital parts in assembly lube, cam lobes were down, and all systems were go.

Last thing was to put the valve cover on the head and call it a night. I began torquing the tiny 8mm valve cover bolts as per the spec in my Honda service manual (at least I had thought). Maybe like the 3rd or 2nd to last bolt I was torquing down with my trusty Snap-on torque wrench was turning just a little more than I thought was normal. I kept waiting for the bolt to "snug up" and for the torque wrench to click already at 17 ft-lbs. I kept tightening on it until I was surprised with a really loud "POW!" Much to my horror, I pulled up on the long 8mm bolt to find it had snapped in half at the threads, leaving the other broken half stuck deep in the head.

Man I was upset, so close to being finished and I screwed myself. I remembered I had put red loctite on the cam bolts and that there would be nothing short of a torch getting those things out once it dried. I scrambled like crazy pulling all the remaining valve cover bolts out and getting the bolts out of the cam as fast as I could. I then proceeded to reverse the rest of my work and pull the head to get the broken bolt half out.

These stupid things happen, but you do learn something from it. I learned that the 17 ft-lbs does not refer to the tiny 8mm valve cover bolts LOL. The spec is more like 6-7 ft-lbs I believe, but is not quoted in the manual to my knowledge. I now just snug them down with a small 1/4" drive ratchet and call it done :p

[Honda#4]

Wow that sucks, glad everything is going good now. When I got done I had looked everything over good to see if everything looked right but now i'll be paying closer attention when I put stuff back together, atleast I pin pointed the problem unlike my stupid clutch problem that I still havent figured out yet and am getting more confused about it? But i'll know whats up when I tear into that.

[Honda#4]

Well today I got my motor out and got the head pulled off and sure enough it was the base gasket, where it was leaking was really dry and crispy. my new gasket comes on Tuesday so now im back to waiting on that meanwhile I gotta figure out why in the world my clutch still isnt allowing me to shift.

Thats all I got till Tuesday

[Honda#4]

My gasket came on Monday so I got it all tore apart and is ready to be put back in for start up number 2, this time I put in a OEM gasket so I'll see how this one works, it sealed up alot better than the Namura one did.

[hornetgod13]

You are using a torque wrench right? I hope so.

[Honda#4]

Yep Hornet everything is all torqued correct and I got 2 of them, well today I got the motor all in and finally it started up with no choke sounds killer and on a plus side NO!! and I mean NO leaks man i'm back to being happy again but on a negative note my clutch still does not work atleast now the focus will be going to that.

[shawndog360]

nice thats sweet i told you. you have to clip it on when you put the casing back together it goes in to the little thing sticking ouyt of the basket get on aim we talk.

[gcart2]

you really need to add this information into your project 416 build thread.

[Honda#4]

As soon as I can figure this clutch problem out I'm gonna do a write up on my motor and suspension.

[madmax400ex]

glad to hear the motor is back in and running. :D
Wish i could help you with the clutch, but i have never worked on a one. Hopefully it is a easy fix.

[mcwilly]

Good deal. Glad you got it up and running! (leak free this time)

[alex10]

Not to hijack your thread but what size bore is a 416 piston? 86mm?

[Honda#4]

I'm thinkin that my lifter spring and maybe the lifter are wore out but the bearing that sits in the hub the one that has the springs on it always pops out now im wondering if that has something to do with it cuz I have no clutch disengagement whatsoever so im thinkin thats the culprit. Anybody have input on to what has gone bad with there clutch? or anything consering the clutch in general?

Its a 87mm piston, stock size is 85mm.

[alex10]

thanks, I have never worked on a honda clutch only suzuki but if the bearing pops out you should replace the parts. Does your lever have any resistance? Also what size is a 406 piston, thanks?

[Honda#4]

A 406 I think is a 85.5 I think but dont quote on that. Well I tore the clutch apart again and its the same deal, i'm getting ready to call it a day and just buy a whole new clutch assembly. There's hardly any resistance in the lever and I had just replaced the cable before I couldnt get the lever to retract back but now it does and I still cant get the clutch to allow me to shift into gear.

[ridinga400ex]

Some of the best things in life happened from accidents,not knowing,or trying things for the first time..out of this we get experiences,discoveries,and gain knowledge.Then comes the sense of pride for accomplishing a task or goal you had visions of.You are on a path you set for yourself..dominate it!!

[Honda#4]

Now thats the best advice i've ever heard in my life. Thanks

[ridinga400ex]

no prob buddy

[Honda#4]

I think life has thrown me a good fast ball on my clutch situation though, I've been thinking all night and day about it but still the problem remains.

[Ruby Soho]

this is what gets you good at it though. your first time with problems always stumps you. you'll eventually find out the problem and when you do youll be one hell of a clutch expert:p

[Honda#4]

Yea ur right Joe, problem is when I keep thinking about problems or things about my quad that makes me get sucked into this sickness even more and I feel like something is gonna give pretty soon, Although when I start my business up that should level out my passion for my quad or it could be a big nightmare either or.

[Ruby Soho]

haha yeah, once you get one problem, you really become aware of other problems that could happen and youll be alot more cautious with everything

[Honda#4]

Well everyone I got good news, IT MOVES!!!!! The problem was that I had the bearing on the clutch lifter on the wrong side crazy me LOL I' learned my lesson now.

This motor flat out rips on bottom end I still have a smile on my face and cant believe it. I'm a tad lean so I'm gonna have to get my hands on a bigger main jet, and it seems a tad hot I may need to get some 93 to see what it does other than that im just focusing on getting it broke in.

Will have updates periodically.

[ridinga400ex]

I am glad you figured it out..YOU DID IT...YOU DOMINATED IT..CONGRATS!!!:)

[Honda#4]

Actually I had a guy help me out, but now sense I took off my clutch cover so many times yesterday I checked the oil and there wasnt any on the tank so now I gotta order a new side gasket and that will that 3 or more days so now im back to waiting again.