I've got an open lid question

[400exrapes]

I'm running a small hole in my lid and I'm going to upgrade to no lid at all. Right now my jetting is perfect at 150, and 50 pilot with just a slip on hmf pipe and uni filter. What should I bump up to like a range. I'm about 200-300 feet above sea level and the temerature is going to be like anywhere between 10-95 all around year but right now about 60-80's. Im trying to figure out an idea of main jets to buy.

[BlaineKaiser450]

185 MJ

[04'400ex'er]

I would say somewhere between a 155MJ to 160MJ. A 185 seems to be a huge jump for just removing the air box lid, and I'm pretty sure the bike wouldn't even start. Start with the 155 though and you should be spot on.

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by 04'400ex'er
I would say somewhere between a 155MJ to 160MJ. A 185 seems to be a huge jump for just removing the air box lid, and I'm pretty sure the bike wouldn't even start. Start with the 155 though and you should be spot on.

Your bike is not the same. The 04/05's have a different carb than what your '06 has. 04/05 HRC kit comes with a 185 main.

A 185 might not be quite right but it should get you in the ballpark. You should probably get the HRC needle too. Honda part number #16201-NLZ-651 will get you just the 04/05 HRC needle. #16020-NLZ-651 will get you the needle and a 185 main.

[400exrapes]

I'm gonna say something like 155 or 160 the 185 will be huge. Jetting around here is real small. For a slip on its always one main jet size bigger then stock and for a full its always two sizes bigger then stock on pilot and main. My stock jet came with a 148 and a 48 pilot. So i'll probably buy a 155 and up to 160 and see how that goes.

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by 400exrapes
I'm gonna say something like 155 or 160 the 185 will be huge. Jetting around here is real small. For a slip on its always one main jet size bigger then stock and for a full its always two sizes bigger then stock on pilot and main. My stock jet came with a 148 and a 48 pilot. So i'll probably buy a 155 and up to 160 and see how that goes.

By all means, experiment and see what works. But a few things come to mind:

1) The HRC jetting is approximate jetting for using the HRC airbox lid (it has huge holes in it) and the stock exhaust with the HRC tip (as far as intake and exhaust go). You've got a slip on and are wanting to run no airbox lid at all. I'm not sure why the HRC jetting wouldn't be a good starting point.

2) Assuming point #1 is valid (and if it's not somebody please point out why) I'm curious what it is about your area that would require much leaner jetting. Are you saying that 20 main jet numbers smaller than typical is normal for your area? Why? I could understand if you lived on a mountain top but you already described your conditions and they appear typical.

3) A stock 450r is very corked-up off the showroom floor. There is an unusually large difference between bone stock jetting and jetting for typical mods. I wouldn't rely on whatever rule of thumb you've established for stock vs. modded jetting. Stock jetting on an '04 is a 118 main not a 148. A showroom stock bike with a 148 installed doesn't make sense to me [shrug]. Running "a small hole" in the lid with a 150 does seem reasonable though. Any venting in the stock lid is going to make a big difference since it's so restrictive to begin with (hence a jump from 118 to 150).


Like I said, do what you feel is right but I'm having trouble making sense of your choices.

just $0.02

[ghott]

GPRacer knows what he is talking about.

Between a 180-190 main should definitely be in the ball park.

Originally posted by ghott
GPRacer knows what he is talking about.

Between a 180-190 main should definitely be in the ball park.

I agree

[d3ktrix]

Originally posted by 400exrapes
For a slip on its always one main jet size bigger then stock and for a full its always two sizes bigger then stock on pilot and main. My stock jet came with a 148 and a 48 pilot. So i'll probably buy a 155 and up to 160 and see how that goes.

I've seen you post a few times that "jetting is always one size bigger".

I don't know where you herd it, but please stop posting it as it is not true.

Even yourself running a 148 is much larger then the stock 118 the 04-05 bikes come with.

[400exrapes]

d3ktrix i only say that for around where i live not for everyone else just my wording is off. and I've got a picture of my lid, its not exactly a hole its closer to an hrc lid without the flap, i screwed up with the directions. if someone will give me there email I'll send them a picture of my lid. thanks

[d3ktrix]

Originally posted by 400exrapes
d3ktrix i only say that for around where i live not for everyone else just my wording is off. and I've got a picture of my lid, its not exactly a hole its closer to an hrc lid without the flap, i screwed up with the directions. if someone will give me there email I'll send them a picture of my lid. thanks

No matter where u are one size bigger then stock will be way too lean with a modded lid or no lid.

Even removing just 1/4 of the lid will require a drastic change in jetting.

If you want me to upload your picture send it to descent@optonline.net
Or make a photobucket account.

[400exrapes]

yeah my description of the lid and jetting was terrible i'm sending you the pic now my photoshop is messedup so i couldnt resize.

[yamadog]

im running a 185 main with a stock pilot and have three 1 inch holes in my airbox lid alongm with other 1 inch holes that i inserted uni filters into

[d3ktrix]

Originally posted by 400exrapes
yeah my description of the lid and jetting was terrible i'm sending you the pic now my photoshop is messedup so i couldnt resize.

Here ya go.
For your 04 and an air box lid like that a 150MJ is VERY lean. You should be running closer to HRC jetting. And you said your at 200-300ft above sea level which makes it even leaner.


http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh6/d3ktrix/temp/400exrapes_450rairboxlid.jpg

[400exrapes]

yeah... it ran perfect when i got it and after i jetted it, then it looked like this.

[d3ktrix]

Focus the camera on the plug not the cups behind it =)

[400exrapes]

yes haha my camera liked the burger king better then my spark plug.

[d3ktrix]

Is it just my monitor or is that plug RED?
What kinda fuel u running? Any additives?

[400exrapes]

haha its your moniter and my camera... i can tell what a brown plug looks like... and it looks like i'll hold off on the jetting cause i dont feel like taking it apart again yet it runs NICE right now but its nice to know ahead of time.

[04'400ex'er]

Originally posted by GPracer2500
Your bike is not the same. The 04/05's have a different carb than what your '06 has. 04/05 HRC kit comes with a 185 main.

A 185 might not be quite right but it should get you in the ballpark. You should probably get the HRC needle too. Honda part number #16201-NLZ-651 will get you just the 04/05 HRC needle. #16020-NLZ-651 will get you the needle and a 185 main. Yes I kno Im an idiot. My apologies

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by 04'400ex'er
Yes I kno Im an idiot. My apologies

:p No worries. Didn't mean to sound like a jerk, if I did. Just laying it out.

[honda4life72]

Originally posted by 400exrapes
haha its your moniter and my camera... i can tell what a brown plug looks like... and it looks like i'll hold off on the jetting cause i dont feel like taking it apart again yet it runs NICE right now but its nice to know ahead of time. u think it is running good , but it isn't. my bro had a 162 in his and it ran good with a full exhaust and no lid. we put a 185 in and it ran cooler and made a good bite difference in power to

[d3ktrix]

Ya its easy to run a bike lean on and main and not even know it unless you've ridden it already properly tuned.

Most of the time a lean main won't show any obvious signs besides some power loss.
Even though ur engine could be running super hot and killing it self :P

[400exrapes]

but what makes you think my engine is running hot... its running nice the way it was when I bought it. Its got the tiny hrc cut in the lid and a slip on pipe with 150 main, when the stock is 118. Plug is nice color and i'm happy lol. i rode it at the track and got about 3-3 1/2 hours of seat time and there were no engine problems/power loss there was a gain.

[400exrapes]

oh by the way, i run regular.. or 89 octane with only a uni filter and thats it.

[d3ktrix]

Didn't say ur engine was running hot, saying its easy to go unnoticed in general.

[400exrapes]

haha okay... so where did the stickys go?

[honda4life72]

ok well i guess we are all just stupid then and you know everything. people on here have been telling u over and over that it needs a 185 main , becasue everybody elses bikes with those same mods needs a 185 , but no over and over u say it runs fine , then fine go ride it

[400exrapes]

dude you should chill out, i'll try a 185 but if its not your quad why are you getting so defensive. But the kid below me ran no lid and a full exhaust and used a 185... so why would i put a 185 if i only have a slip on and like 1/4 of my lid cut off.

[d3ktrix]

Originally posted by 400exrapes
dude you should chill out, i'll try a 185 but if its not your quad why are you getting so defensive. But the kid below me ran no lid and a full exhaust and used a 185... so why would i put a 185 if i only have a slip on and like 1/4 of my lid cut off.

Slip-on vs full system isn't going to change ur jetting.
Nothing noticeable anyway, only if you get it dyno'd.

[400exrapes]

well the stock main jet is 118, and i had a 148 in my carb with stock exhaust and that lid and i bought a few jets and the 152 was too much and i went down 1 and a 150 was nice.

[honda4life72]

Originally posted by 400exrapes
dude you should chill out, i'll try a 185 but if its not your quad why are you getting so defensive. But the kid below me ran no lid and a full exhaust and used a 185... so why would i put a 185 if i only have a slip on and like 1/4 of my lid cut off. i'm not being defensive . really idk , but over and over its been said a 185 is best but u just keep sayin no its not. when your the one who asked the question and we gave anwsers , but no our anwsers were wrong and a 152 and 150 is not even going to be a noticable difference

[400exrapes]

see man you are getting defensive, i decided to keep my lid on these other guys running 185's have lids off completley. My quad does not run with a 152 or anything higher then 150 and the plug is black at 152 so why change if its not wrong?

[honda4life72]

Originally posted by 400exrapes
see man you are getting defensive, i decided to keep my lid on these other guys running 185's have lids off completley. My quad does not run with a 152 or anything higher then 150 and the plug is black at 152 so why change if its not wrong? so now your telling me whats wrong with me? wow i must be really stupid

[400exrapes]

lmao you take everything i say the wrong way.. im done i'm not going to argue with you over my quad.

[400exrapes]

i'm going to buy the hrc header so sorry i denied it but im going to go for the 185 main jet cause now that i tried 152 it ran alot cooler and better so i think i'll order the hrc header and put the 185 in there.

[d3ktrix]

The HRC header is ment for the 06+ bikes.
You might be able to get it to bolt up to the head with a little muscle but it will not fit into your stock 04 silencer.

And I don't see you noticing any temp difference going from a 150 to a 152MJ. Thats almost no difference :P
Only place you'd notice a change like that is on a dyno.
Even have a temp gage?

[400exrapes]

i've got an hmf silencer. And there was a pretty big difference in the heat now i can take it for a spin around the block and i'll be able to touch it by hand for a few seconds.. but before as soon as it started and i rode it for like 300 feet and came back it was too hot to touch the clutch cover. but i just ordered a jet kit with 160-185 main jets so i'll test them all out in a week, whether or not i have an hrc header next week there will be an aftermarket header eventually but for now its going to be hrc lid, slip on hmf and uni filter. Now should i still run the 185 you guys think?

[hendershot106]

Originally posted by 400exrapes
i've got an hmf silencer. And there was a pretty big difference in the heat now i can take it for a spin around the block and i'll be able to touch it by hand for a few seconds.. but before as soon as it started and i rode it for like 300 feet and came back it was too hot to touch the clutch cover. but i just ordered a jet kit with 160-185 main jets so i'll test them all out in a week, whether or not i have an hrc header next week there will be an aftermarket header eventually but for now its going to be hrc lid, slip on hmf and uni filter. Now should i still run the 185 you guys think?


dude stop wearing everyone out and put the 185 in it.... ill be the one hundreth and one to tell you. RUN A 185 :grr:

[400exrapes]

haha yeah i've coem to that conclusion finally, will the 185 be okay with a full pipe too? and hrc lid?

[d3ktrix]

Originally posted by 400exrapes
haha yeah i've coem to that conclusion finally, will the 185 be okay with a full pipe too? and hrc lid?

Think of it this way.

Once u cut or remove the air box your guna be in the 175-195 range no matter what.
No matter if it's baffle out, slip on, full system, hrc header, high comp piston, cam, stroker.
All close to there.
They'll all change it a little bit, but still in that general range.

Though porting and carb boring can throw it around some.

Thats why the 185 almost always the first jet recommended for the 04-05 bikes, its in the middle of that happy area. Just got tune from there.

[400exrapes]

yeah thanks, this 450r carbuerator and jetting is nothing like on the 400ex if you jumped up that many sizes for like a slip on it would flood instantly. I'll update you guys after I put the 185 in.

[motosport67]

This person is the only that makes any since and knows what he is talking about. It is funny how so many people know very little about jetting, if you knew what jetting you need then why would you post any thing and if you don’t know then don’t get pissed and we the people that do know tell you what to run!!!





Think of it this way.

Once u cut or remove the air box your guna be in the 175-195 range no matter what.
No matter if it's baffle out, slip on, full system, hrc header, high comp piston, cam, stroker.
All close to there.
They'll all change it a little bit, but still in that general range.

Though porting and carb boring can throw it around some.

Thats why the 185 almost always the first jet recommended for the 04-05 bikes, its in the middle of that happy area. Just got tune from there.


__________________
05 450r
Motowoz LT All Around / SMC LT +3 / Elka Pro Dual Link / RPM +4 Axle
CP 12:1 Piston / 02 CRF Cam / 07 CRF FCR Carb / Sparks Exhaust / HRC Kit / Flexx Bars
Buncha other crap