04 and below VS. 05 and up?

[Cool Guy07400EX]

Are the 05's actually slower due to the reverse? I have an 07 and have never rode an 04 or below but I've heard the 04's and below are faster. Is this true?:confused:

[hornetgod13]

I've seen threads on this topic before. You'll get mixed opinions depending on which type the person actually has.

I now the internal and external gearing was changed on the 05-and UP models.

[red_rider_069]

o thought hey were same:D .. learned somthing new :D

[Cool Guy07400EX]

Originally posted by hornetgod13
I've seen threads on this topic before. You'll get mixed opinions depending on which type the person actually has.

I now the internal and external gearing was changed on the 05-and UP models.


Changed in what way?

[chayes627]

i raced two '04 and belows both piped and jetted and i have an '07 at the time only k&n and i beat them by 4 lengths but that could just be rider abilty to

[XXXRACER165]

When my 2001 EX was stock I would clean house on all the new ones.

[tdmopar59]

i go riding with two kids that have an 04 and an 03... mine is an 06... when i was stock i would barely lose to the 04 that had the pipe filter and jets... i could beat the 03 by a lil bit... i had more top end i think... but anyway... the 05 and up gears are different in the trans and the sprockets are a 14/38 and the final drive gear is the same as the 04 and below which uses a 15/38 the 05 and up may be faster but it isnt by much at all.... i also believe they have slightly different timing. Now that my bike has been piped and has the filter new sprockets i wanna race the 04 again to see what happens...

[hornetgod13]

Originally posted by tdmopar59
the 05 and up gears are different in the trans and the sprockets are a 14/38 and the final drive gear is the same as the 04 and below which uses a 15/38

Check your rear sprocket again.

1999-2004 15F/38R
2005-UP 14F/39R

Internal gearing changed as well.

2005-2008
1st 2.727 (11/30)
2nd 1.789 (19/34)
3rd 1.363 (22/30)
4th 1.080 (25/27)
5th 0.925 (27/25)
Reverse 2.428 (14/21x21/34)

Someone else might have the 1999-2004 numbers so you can compare.

[Wheelie]

99-04 gearing

1st 2.917
2nd 1.938
3rd 1.474
4th 1.182
5th 1.000

[Cool Guy07400EX]

I see. :D

[DementeD]

Originally posted by hornetgod13
I've seen threads on this topic before. You'll get mixed opinions depending on which type the person actually has.

I now the internal and external gearing was changed on the 05-and UP models.

its funny u mention this...and right after that people still come in and state it exactly like you said...
if they own that..its faster.. thx for the giggle..i love it..

and im not calling bs on anyones races..however when u have a quad of very similiar specs almost identical..it really comes down to the rider..so therefore u cant really say..UNLESS u go figure out the tranny ratios that are posted with the sprockets that are stock on the bikes...then u can figure out basically which has the higher speed but..still doesnt say which will pull through it faster

now imo..ud think that honda changed the gearing etc to make it better for the powerband of the 400ex engine..this may NOT be true but its what id guess..so maybe itll pull better..

also note that racing a stock 06 vs a close to stock 01 isnt exactly fair..figuring the motor has been beaten on for 5 more years and probably isnt running how it did 5 years previously..

just something to note..
i say someone go figure out the gearing :D

[Wheelie]

I don't think Honda was changing the ratios to better match the engines output, I think Honda did it for less stress on the EX trans. The primary drive ratio is a touch higher on the newer machines as are the trans gear ratios, with the lower final drive. Less torque on the trans and output shaft with the newer gearing.

[DementeD]

well i was just guessing..but u seem like u have a better guess then me..

so..with the gearing which would u think should be faster?..the older 400s out of the hole and maybe not as much on the top end??

Older 400's have more HP due to no reverse. Years back a racer told me "if you get a quad dont get reverse, it will just rob you of horse power." It might be like 2HP which isnt much but its still something

[tdmopar59]

your right about the rear sprocket my fault :( lol

[alping45]

How could reverse have any effect on horsepower?



Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
Older 400's have more HP due to no reverse. Years back a racer told me "if you get a quad dont get reverse, it will just rob you of horse power." It might be like 2HP which isnt much but its still something

[boosted3g]

The theory is that it creates more drag in the drivetrain. Ive never noticed any less power between all of our 400s. Id even say that the 07 is the fastest of the bunch. I obviously cant race myself but on my 07 vs my brothers 04 i could take him everytime. He is more of a motorcycle guy so it dont hold much merit but honsetly i cant feel much difference but its probably related to more than reverse and gears. Its probably the fast that the 07 is newer. The 07 now has engine work so i can no longer compare, if the reverse is hurting power its not showing it on the dyno where i can make 14hp over stock with not a lot of engine work.

[HondaRaceReady]

Stock vs stock, the older ones are faster. But, you can change the external gearing to make the newer ones the same. I've ridden 01's 04's and I have an 07. 07's have way more power in first, but a lot less speed. The solution is to change the front sprocket to +1 tooth and they are the same power and speed.

can someone with a 2005 and up please get their manual out and find the primary reduction where the gear ratios are? thanks

[Hondamaster5505]

I don't even know why this thread was started:rolleyes:

The power loss of the reverse, is less than 1hp. You will NEVER feel that. I don't care what anyone says.

The difference in the speed is mainly the gearing. Change the gearing and its just as fast.

Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
can someone with a 2005 and up please get their manual out and find the primary reduction where the gear ratios are? thanks

anyone?

[powermadd400ex]

primary reduction=2.826
final reduction=2.786
1st=2.727
2nd=1.789
3rd=1.363
4th=1.080
5h=0.925
reverse=2.428

powermadd400ex thank you very much, I can now compare the 400ex internally and sprockets to see stock for stock what is faster

[powermadd400ex]

no problem man, tell us the results

Results:

mind you I entered 9100 for the RPM and reverse has a much lower rev limter than that. Also 9100 isnt that easy to reach on a stock motor and the power starts to drop off way before this point.

[Duke Nukem]

Very cool!

I have a bunch of quads listed and I can do any variable with with tires and sprockets as well as determining the CC of an engine if you alter the bore size and/or stroke.

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by Hondamaster5505
I don't even know why this thread was started:rolleyes:

The power loss of the reverse, is less than 1hp. You will NEVER feel that. I don't care what anyone says.

The difference in the speed is mainly the gearing. Change the gearing and its just as fast.

I hate to say it... but me either... lol...


I guess it's beneficial for guys like me with the non-reverse models.
When it comes time to rebuild, it's good to know if there is a difference since you might be choosing between modding the old motor, or getting a new one with reverse... or at least the bottom end. Looks like the newer one has reverse and higher trans gearing with lower final drive.


Otherwise though, this is totally bogus. For one, these calculators are accurate only math-wise. But in the real world, about all you can tell from them is what speed you MIGHT loose or gain by changing gear ratios.... JUST MIGHT....

In the real world though, it's a totally different ballgame. It tells you nothing about how quick a quad is, or how you change it's end result performance with gearing changes. Gearing so that you run your engine in the meat of it's power curve means a lot.

Also, I know these calculators are supposed to give you this mathmatical limit of speed. But according to this... a 400EX doing 75... yeah right... and plugging my Sport 400 specs in, the 400EX should kill it... by a whopping 9mph in top speed.

Sorry, but that's total BS. It looses bitterly on both ends... accelleration and top speed. If you do some "REALITY MATH" it's not hard to understand why....

Mods aside, a stock 400EX makes about 26-27hp peak at 6500 RPM... and takes various times getting to that RPM depending on gearing... and suffers shift drops.

A stock Sport 400 makes about 40hp at under 6000 RPM... so it goes from 0-40hp in however many seconds it takes a 2 stroke to rev to 5500-6000 RPM.... and hangs there until it runs out of shiftout and final gearing, then starts to curve down.

That's some facts that are not too hard to understand. I haven't run either high-gear-pinned until the rev limiter kicked in..... because reality sets in long before that.

Let's put it this way... I've been riding since 1st grade and my wife has burnt a couple tanks maybe over the last two months, and even from a rolling start on blacktop... I'm running max... so hard the front is off the ground with me hugging the tank... and I still can't catch her until she runs out of nerve.... and my 400EX is well beyond stock.

I do wonder how long and how far you'd have to go 5th gear pinned to get a 400EX to 9100 RPM tough....

i've almost actually hit my rev limter in 5th. I found out i was only getting to 3/4 throttle when I would push the throttle all the way in, after adjusting it so the slide goes all the way up and rejetting I took it for a run down the road twice and now I can pull through and I almost tagged the rev limter before I shut it off for a plug check. I mean I was about to hit it and I was like damn i've never been able to rev this high this quick. Most people that have their 400ex on GPS or Trailtech and say a speed normally say they chickened out or didnt hit the rev limiter. I think those are pretty acurate because I entered in the gearing and RPM for my friends 440 stroker that was radar clocked at 86MPH and the calculator said like 85.89MPH or something like that.

[Hondamaster5505]

Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
i've almost actually hit my rev limter in 5th. I found out i was only getting to 3/4 throttle when I would push the throttle all the way in, after adjusting it so the slide goes all the way up and rejetting I took it for a run down the road twice and now I can pull through and I almost tagged the rev limter before I shut it off for a plug check. I mean I was about to hit it and I was like damn i've never been able to rev this high this quick. Most people that have their 400ex on GPS or Trailtech and say a speed normally say they chickened out or didnt hit the rev limiter. I think those are pretty acurate because I entered in the gearing and RPM for my friends 440 stroker that was radar clocked at 86MPH and the calculator said like 85.89MPH or something like that.

Mine stock with the exhaust, pulled 9010, 90 shy of the rev limiter, before I had to back off because the road came to an end. I was using my vapor.

[MtnEX]

How many miles and minutes did it tak you to get that close though?


Were you anywhere near 75 mph?

[Hondamaster5505]

Originally posted by MtnEX
How many miles and minutes did it tak you to get that close though?


Were you anywhere near 75 mph?

It didn't take THAT long.

I was about maybe 64-65. Thats all they do. So whoever says 75 is full of it.

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by Hondamaster5505
It didn't take THAT long.

I was about maybe 64-65. Thats all they do. So whoever says 75 is full of it.

Yep... full of it... and so the calculator, while math accurate is not real world accurate.

[Hondamaster5505]

Originally posted by MtnEX
Yep... full of it... and so the calculator, while math accurate is not real world accurate.

Exactly.

I doubt the newer models are 10mph faster. And if that's true, I should smoke em off the line because of the lower gearing.

But everyone brags about top speed, who really gives a chit? It's not about top speed, it's about how fast you get there.

[xtullyx16]

when i got my 400ex and put a slip on fmf and k'n and rejetted it.. i ran side by side with my bud and ran wide open and he tacked me at 73 with stock 2004 gearing! so that is not a wrong calculation its actually very close

[hypersnyper6947]

the guy i got my bike from said it would go 86mph true or not i dont know, my mods are in my signature and i have 15/33 gearing, and he was running 12.5/1 compression and race fuel.

[leasureryan]

don't forget that tire size also plays a huge part in all of this

[Hondamaster5505]

Originally posted by hypersnyper6947
the guy i got my bike from said it would go 86mph true or not i dont know, my mods are in my signature and i have 15/33 gearing, and he was running 12.5/1 compression and race fuel.

Thats super high gearing:huh

How the hell do you even ride that thing.