Suspension????

[outcastu]

My son has raced six races and in the last three he has really stepped it up a notch and his nailing every jump in site but when he lands it is a very hard landing. His rear end is so tight that even when I sit on it and I'm 220lbs. it barely sinks down. What do I need to do? The shock is on the loosest setting.

Thanks for any help.

[bulldogfallon]

Who did you buy the quad from?

It is a 90cc I imagine?

[Logan #34's Dad]

Outcast, I am a firm believer in Suspension First, Motor second. If you want to do it right - (I didn't) - Check into ATVFourplay or DC (Dave Carter) front and rear set-ups. Choose one - and all will be well. IMO - I hope you know that nothing in cheap either w/ these mini's. LOL

[outcastu]

Gary, my brother inlaw and I bought a few of these direct from DRR in Ohio.

Yes it is a 90 LC (2008 I think we bought it in December.)

I would like to make the suspension a little better for him since he is a bigger kid but don't know where to start any help would be appreciated. I've looked at both the Elka and the fox set ups and they are pricey but I'm sure well worth the money. Would it be better to go with the long travel set up? He will be primarly racing MX.

Thanks.

[bulldogfallon]

Are you in FL and brother inlaw in NC?

[outcastu]

Thanks Logan's dad. I'll check in to those. What's your take on the long travel versus regular?

[outcastu]

Sorry Gary miss read the question but yeah that's us.

[bulldogfallon]

Ever wonder why your units were different from the others DRRs out there?


Because they were the units I special ordered...

They were taken off my container and then sold into my territory :mad:


You surely have had issues making them run properly? Clutching, gear ratio, suspension etc?

I will help you, but in the future you should purchase your quad from a dealer that can service your unit.....Price is not everything


Call DRR and ask for the black shock for the rear.....You will also need a stiffer torque spring, heavier rollers weights and lighter clutch shoe springs.....your clutch is set up for a 50 in stock form, so I bet your clutch bell is blue and slips like crazy...

Your tranny gears are also the high speed ratio so you will need to gear down to an 18T Fr x 35T Rear to get the gearing MX friendly.

I know you have been to a local dealer in FL multiple times....If you want local service then buy from the local dealer.

Trackside support and local support is well worth any money savings on the initial purchase. IMO

[outcastu]

I'm going to call and talk to you so we can get past this. I'm not going to try and defend my decision because I agree with you if I had known what I know now I would have done things different. I honestly did not realize how many dealers were in Florida until I found this forum. We are still rookies in the quad game. We're not looking to step on anyones toes we're just looking for a deal just like everyone else. So I apologize.

And yes I have learned alot trying to get this 90 running right, what a mission. I have changed the the clutch torion spring,shifter springs and rollers I also had to buy a new clutch because the shoes were completly gone on the installed one.

[bulldogfallon]

Nothing personal against you....


Same advice to anyone that asks


If you need local support, buy local....unless the local guy doesn't know enough to meet your needs

[jread14]

Originally posted by Logan #34's Dad
Outcast, I am a firm believer in Suspension First, Motor second. If you want to do it right - (I didn't) - Check into ATVFourplay or DC (Dave Carter) front and rear set-ups. Choose one - and all will be well. IMO - I hope you know that nothing in cheap either w/ these mini's. LOL

Go with the DC set-up... We have both of these setups and IMO the DC performs much better and the ride height is a ton better as well. Dont get me wrong, because the ATV Four Play set-up is nice but the scrub and bump steer is not something you get with the DC set-up. Also, if Dave says that he will have it ready in 10 days, it will be ready in 8... I cant really say that much for ATV Four Play......

[wvspeedfreak]

If he likes to jump just go ahead and get the DC long travel set up and be done with it.It is worth it.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s106/wvspeedfreak/may55.jpg

[bulldogfallon]

Originally posted by jread14
Go with the DC set-up... We have both of these setups and IMO the DC performs much better and the ride height is a ton better as well. Dont get me wrong, because the ATV Four Play set-up is nice but the scrub and bump steer is not something you get with the DC set-up. Also, if Dave says that he will have it ready in 10 days, it will be ready in 8... I cant really say that much for ATV Four Play......


Do you have the full size ATV Four Play stuff or the set up for the mini bike shocks?

[dblacks]

If I remember right, Jread has the atvfourplay with the pit bike front shocks not the new fox LT float XT's


We had the DC setup with Elkas and now we have the fourplay set up with Fox XT's. Both are good setups but we like the fourplay with the fox xt's work better for us.

Both are great depending on your riders style, tracks and ability to adjust.

[orange xtreme]

FOURPLAY all the way!!!!!

[dcarter]

Both set ups are good and work well. There are a few difference's with the two. The dc set up uses heims on all for front a-arms, this allows you to square the front end to the rear end so the bike tracks straight. With dc stuff you can also get a full round house swing arm set up as well. It takes weight off the back of the bike so your suspension can work just a little bit better. Chain adjustment is fast and easy, you also never have to worry about the rear end getting out of square. Last but not least the dc system has a lower stance allowing the bike to corner better for the little kids.

[jread14]

Originally posted by dblacks
If I remember right, Jread has the atvfourplay with the pit bike front shocks not the new fox LT float XT's


We had the DC setup with Elkas and now we have the fourplay set up with Fox XT's. Both are good setups but we like the fourplay with the fox xt's work better for us.

Both are great depending on your riders style, tracks and ability to adjust.

That is correct... The set up is nice but sets up a little high for my taste. DC has mentioned the fact that his set lower and allows the guys to corner a little better. This is absolutely true, my son corners a lot faster on his DC bike than he does his Fourplay bike.

I also like the fact that you can get a setup from DC in 10 days and you never know where Tom may be in his production or if he would call you back to let you know when he may have them available. Just my $.02... JR

[dcarter]

Thanks for the nice words JR. How does your son like the set up?
One thing i would like to mention, it does not matter what you have on your bike if you are at a race where i am and you have a problem, say cracked frame or busted nerf bar, you can roll it up in my trailer and i will do my best to get your kid up and rinning. Now that being said if my stuff is on your kids bike it will not cost you a penny no matter what is wrong! Just a litle service we offer to try to keep the kids on the track. Thanks dc

[outcastu]

Thanks guys.
You all have been very helpful. For now I have put the (black)softer stock shock on and we will see how it does this Sunday.

I'm sure it won't last long with the way he has picked up the sport and the love of airing out. So I will be saving up to get the right set up for him so he can have fun and stay safe.

A special thanks to DC, Gary and Steve for taking the time to help me figure out whats best for Sean.

[T@AFP]

Thank you to our supporters.

In regards to some comments about the ride height.
I believe we have that situation resolved. There were some discrepancies from some of the shock manufactureres on "air pressure" and the overall length of the shocks. It seems to be fixed at this point. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Also please be advised that we have discontinued the DRR/ Fox MXR set ups. We are only making the 14.5" LT A arms.

In regards to Mr. Read's comments on our "turn around time" on products...sorry. We manufacture suspension parts for not only the "mini quad" market but "big quads" as well. We manufacture over 28 different varieties of A arms. Not to mention all the swing arms and steering stems. Depending on when you order and where we are in our build plan dictates delivery of your parts. Our standard turn around time is 3-4 weeks. Thats really not too bad for a quality product. In spring it may be longer. Sorry... we cannot and will not jeopordize our quality of products for a "little faster" turn around time.
There are reasons why some of the factory sponsored riders prefer to us our products....our stuff works.

Thanks again to our supporters and hopefully we will be able to expedite our delivery times. But until then PLEASE BE PATIENT. we're trying.

Thanks,
Tom

[mac75]

Sorry... we cannot and will not jeopordize our quality of products for a "little faster" turn around time.


I think this statement says it all!!! I have not personally dealt with AFP but have helped set up other riders bikes while they did and they had simple problems and felt they were treated badly.... All on full size bikes though... They had quality issues with what they ordered... Shock length wrong.(Ordered through AFP) tie rod lenght wrong ... threads where cut wrong...on tie rods... had to bye two inners for one side... shocks rubbed arms .... And while all we where doing was trying to get a product set up right we where told that if we didnt want it send it back.....
We deal with many companies in our store now and have never been treated like that..... A nonsponsored rider paying full price for his set has a lot of money out there... $2500 dollars is a big investment for the average guy... If you buy top quality products you should be treated that way.. and if you sell High quality you should represent that way......

[dcarter]

Hey everyone,
Like i said in my first post, both products are good products. It just depends on what you want and who you want to deal with. I agree with tom in that we can not sacriface quality for faster turn around times. Mini's are all i build parts for so it is easier for me to turn things around a little faster. I also make mistakes on builds, i just try to do what ever it takes to get the people the right stuff when i do. Tom and I both know that you spend a lot of money for products and we are trying to provide the best possible service. I would like to thank all the people who have reccomended my products, it's nice to hear when some one says to buy your product. Thanks All!!!!!!!!!!!!
dc

[dblacks]

from my experience a builder/supplier/retailer cant make 100% of the people out there happy no matter what they do.

Both DC and ATV4play make great products for the mini quads, some will like 1 or the other some will like both and some will like neither. I have talked with both tom and DC in the past and had no issue with either, I just went with the product that seemed to be the best fit for our apllication.

We are lucky to have 2 sources for good quality products and both sources are willing to develop things that make these quads work better. Thanks guys!

[mxdad423]

Go with the DC set up, I have ran DC's set up's for the last 5 years and every product I have ever got from Dave has been AWSOME and not once have we ever had any problems. We are currently running the Long Travel duals on our Kasea and WOW they are AWSOME. I have seen both set up's and in my opinion the DC set up is the way to go for MX, it sets lower to the ground wich is what you want for MX. Again I have personal experience with the DC products and they are top notch, not saying the others aren't good but I think the DC stuff is the way to go for MX.

Kevin Smitley
B.A.K. Motorsports

[jread14]

Originally posted by mac75
Sorry... we cannot and will not jeopordize our quality of products for a "little faster" turn around time.


I think this statement says it all!!! I have not personally dealt with AFP but have helped set up other riders bikes while they did and they had simple problems and felt they were treated badly.... All on full size bikes though... They had quality issues with what they ordered... Shock length wrong.(Ordered through AFP) tie rod lenght wrong ... threads where cut wrong...on tie rods... had to bye two inners for one side... shocks rubbed arms .... And while all we where doing was trying to get a product set up right we where told that if we didnt want it send it back.....
We deal with many companies in our store now and have never been treated like that..... A nonsponsored rider paying full price for his set has a lot of money out there... $2500 dollars is a big investment for the average guy... If you buy top quality products you should be treated that way.. and if you sell High quality you should represent that way......

This is not an issue that I had with Tom... He went above and beyond to help me find spacers for my upper a arms were made for the 2008 not the 2007.... I did really appreciate that, but what happened after that I am still a little puzzled about...

Tom, as for my statements on turn around time... I understand you have a ton of products to build and I know first hand that your products are of high quality not junk. However, the non returned phone calls and emails to let us know what the turn around time was on a swinger and one of your new front set ups is what I am talking about... If you will remember I was the one on here supporting your products and talking about how well your front end worked when no one had seen your product in action.... I did this on my own free will. I never asked you for anything to do this because I honestly believe in your products. The problem that I am earing from more than one source is exactly what I ran into (not returning phone calls or emails when someone needs something)....

On a seperate note, I would love to know what the ride height fix is Tom, because I have yet to be told this....

Sorry to everyone that had to read this because I know this is supposed to be a forum not a sopa opera... I just wanted to clear up what the real issue was...

[orange xtreme]

Tom we are happy to be running your products you have put the smile back on my son's face and he does not second guess your product.

jread 14 I do not now what your son weighs but we are running 30psi in the front you could pm me if you like but I might not respond untill monday we are going racing.

proud father of #204

[jread14]

30 PSI!!!!!!!:confused: :confused: :confused:


I was told to run around 110 and that was not enough... I am having to run about 145 with spring rate on 2 to keep the shocks from bottoming out so much.

Thanks for the input.... I will PM you as well.

Oh and my son weighs about 50 lbs.... JR

[dblacks]

remember you are using the pit bike shock so ride will be different anyways. different shock and different mounting point on the lower a-arm

we are using 25lbs on my sons quads. My son is a little lighter than orange Extreme's son

[dcarter]

Hey Dblacks,
Have you tried to put the fox on my set up? Those shocks were designed for my long travel a-arms, i sent fox a set and they built the floats for my a-arms. give them a try and let me know how they work. thanks dave
jason thanks for your support, i am not perfect and make mistakes all the time, i do try to fix them when i do.
okay everyone let's hold hands and sing cum bye ya!!!!
p.s. i am gone to the races see every one next week!!!!!

[dblacks]

sorry Dave, I sold your set up

I'll Gladly put them on it if you send me a new set...lol

[mxdad423]

The DC LT set up in action, smoooooooth as butter, you can bet your a** on that one, just ask my son.

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa153/mxdad0423/Brandonracingatmapleshade004.jpg

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa153/mxdad0423/Brandonracingatmapleshade007.jpg