ever heard of tire shaving???

[trx450r ryder]

hey i saw in the quad magazine at the weston beach race someguy shaved the side of his maxxis razr's and made a impresive sand tire out of them like their was only tread down the middle ...........how do u shave a tire ??????

[pro-rider46]

im not a specialist on this, but i think it is a machine that does it. or maybe like a wire that gets hot to melt through stuff like they use to take of windshields

[bluebaron]

Its a tire groover. They heat up a metal blade, they you start taking off rubber.

http://www.cometkartsales.com/store/tools/images/tiregroover.jpg

[GPracer2500]

I use the exact unit pictured above. Works alright. I mean, the results are acceptable but the groover doesn't output enough heat (250w I think) for what I try and do with it. It works but it's a lot of time consuming labor to take lbs of rubber off. 500w or more would be better for me since I take off long swaths of rubber.

I took 5lbs of "unnecessary" rubber off these sand sharks. That's 5lbs per tire. And I was able to customize the paddle blade height to get the traction where I wanted it. It turned a tire that I didn't like at all for my application into a tire that performs well.

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/1822/p11900840fa.jpg

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/391/p11900864qk.jpg

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/5609/p11900793mo.jpg

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6854/p2110177mediumzx7.jpg

The first (and only, so far) set I've cut turned out kinda ugly. What you see pictured are the best looking sides. I didn't start with the right blade width and did a lot of experimenting with technique. My next set should be easier to do and look nicer because of what I learned on the first go-around.

[GPracer2500]

The panel on the right was my first attempt. By the time I made my way around to the last panel I was doing better. Point is, the learning curve is steep. If you're just taking off some knobs, no biggy. If you're doing something more radical don't expect your first tire to come out all that great.

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/3554/p11900931ii.jpg


By the time I finished the second tire I had the blade width sorted out and was pleased with the results.

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/2414/p9040069dj4.jpg

The tires started out like this.

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/8931/pc050014kb9.jpg

[TRX450RACER174]

I'm no expert on tire shaving but from the looks of the pics i think there awesome my only ? is do they need to be equal in weight or close to the same weight.

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by TRX450RACER174
I'm no expert on tire shaving but from the looks of the pics i think there awesome my only ? is do they need to be equal in weight or close to the same weight.

If they're close they're fine. Those sand sharks ended up a few oz different. BUT they also started out a 5.2oz different before I even touched them. I've weighed a number of different paddle/wheel combos and they usually don't weight exactly the same.

[TRX450RACER174]

I dont ride much sand Glamis a couple times a season but those have that custom look and with the weight savings you get taking 5lbs off the better the bike will run not carrying the extra weight on the rear tires very interesting i might have to experiment on a set of moulded sand tires i have damn you.

[maddmatt02]

so you saved 5 lbs off each? 10 total, anything to the fronts?

I heard once(in reference to a car though) that every pound of rotating mass at the wheels is like 7 lbs of stationary weight on the vehicle itself.

I wonder how much truth that has when applied to a quad.

if you could get 2 lbs off each front, 14x7 would be like 98lbs.

Im gonna have to test this out when i get some paddles.

[trx450r ryder]

hey gp racer that looks sik ill have to try that wit some sand geckos or somthing where do u get the tool????

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by maddmatt02
so you saved 5 lbs off each? 10 total, anything to the fronts?....

I run those on an '85 ATC250R so I've only got 1 front. :D And no, I didn't mod it. 20 years of wear has it worn down plenty. ;)

http://img478.imageshack.us/img478/7122/croppedic4.jpg

But I would do it do a set of dune specific front tires. I bet my Dune Tracker front quad tires have 2 or 3 lbs of rubber they don't need. Probably not as beneficial as working over rears though.


The weight savings did make a difference. For the first ride test I had about the same paddle blade height. I did cut the blades down but since the carcass "went down" the blades had to have some height lopped off too. So the first test was mostly just weight reduction. They spun up faster and held a tall gear better. Still too much traction though. So I started cutting the blade height down in stages until they would spin enough to hold 5th up Oldsmobile Hill. Actually, the conditions have to be just right to pull fifth there. I didn't cut the blades down any more for fear my launches would suffer. But when conditions are right I can compete with my buddies on much newer machinery....

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d133/gpracer2500/Dunes/P2240018Medium.jpg

....On Banshee Hill at Dumont (or most flat drags) I can compete (or win) against that same competition on most every run. It's ALL tires. Well, not really all tires but tires can easily make the difference between winning/competing and getting your doors blown off. A junk tire is night and day from a good tire. As soon as I realized that, I started cutting (since I don't have $450 for the tires I really want that come already comp cut).

The paddle blades are currently about the same height as a Skat-Trak Glider blade. The paddle/wheel combos went from 17lbs 6oz to 12lbs 9oz (each) after the final blade shortening.

I probably shouldn't be sharing my go-fast secrets :devil: but since comp-cutting your own paddles is an arduous, messy, and time consuming task, I'm not too worried about everyone suddenly showing up at the hill with faster tires. ;)

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by trx450r ryder
...ill have to try that wit some sand geckos or somthing...

If you've got some Geckos laying around, I'd highly recommend giving them the comp cut treatment. Those tires are stupid heavy with way too much traction for good performance in a sand drag of any length (in Glamis sand anyway).

[maddmatt02]

can someone please tell me how too much traction is abad thing? I rode on geckos once, then switched to those gbc sand sharks. then a buddy had some spare skat trak edges and those were the best, but even the itp's were better than the geckos. but I just thought I liked the other tires because they got better traction, never thought I would have liked them more because of less traction. Ive only been to the dunes twice though so far, but my 300 is almost done, my 450r will be here soon and I moved down to AZ so I am pretty close to dumont and glamis so I should be going alot more often.

anyone know if the paddles on kenda dune runners are way too soft and will fold over? I like the price on those alot.

[trx450r ryder]

how is to much traction a bad thing???:confused:

[TRX450RACER174]

Originally posted by trx450r ryder
how is to much traction a bad thing???:confused:

My experience in sand is to much traction robs power from the machine it's a balance between getting the right amount of paddles by allowing the engine to rev higher you keep the engine in the power band.

[GPracer2500]

What TRX450RACER174 said ^.

In the dunes there is definitely such a thing as too much traction. On a dirt trail or motorcross track, it's probably a rare situation where you've got too much.

But paddle tires in sand are capable of generating sooooo much bite that it can overwhelm the engines power. You don't notice it so much in lower gears. But when your climbing a long sand dune and you feel the engine start to bog, forcing a downshift--that's a situation where less traction would increase your speed. If the engine can keep those tires spinning and not loose RPM then you'll keep your speed up or even accelerate. A paddle tire spinning in the sand is still generating tons of forward momentum. That's different than hard packed dirt (or most other surfaces) where when you break the tires free you loose most of your forward momentum. Paddles in the sand aren't like that. You want them to spin some. And you want them to spin fast--that means 4th and 5th gear.

Next time your at the dunes check out the paddles being run by the really fast guys. You might be surprised how few paddles many of them are running. When it comes to paddles, more is not always better. If you rarely get out of 3rd gear, shy away from the monster hills, and just want to pull 10mph wheelies next to camp all afternoon, that's fine (no bash) and you probably should have unspinable paddles for that. But if you want to race up a dune, you need something different. In my experience, most people are overpaddled and don't even know it.

[maddmatt02]

what would be a good paddle for a 300ex? I rode a 330 (P&P, cam, bumped cr, etc, but it was pretty beat) but it had 8 paddle geckos and going up banshee hill in winchester bay, I ended up climbing it at like 3 MPH in 2nd gear. my girls YFZ with sand sharks I was going up it in 4th and accelerating but it has this little jog to the left a few feet with tree roots/stumps so Id drop to 3rd there and then I could accelerate after it but not hit 4th, but the jog is close to the top. however I did have enough bite to then lift the front and ride on the rears the rest of the way up. so if the tires had less traction I might be able to get back into 4th after that jog?

[GPracer2500]

On your 300, I couldn't say for sure what's best. 20x10x8 6 paddle Glider maybe? Or maybe an 20x10x8 5 paddle Hauler? Those are pretty expensive tires though. Most any 6 paddle would probably be ok but I'd much rather underpaddle than overpaddle.

One thing you can do is cut some height off the paddle blades of an 8 paddler to better suit it to a machine. You won't loose much weight but customizing the traction of a paddle is probably the single most important thing. Most people probably already have what they'd need in their garage--utility blade clamped in some vice grips, a torch to heat the blade, and a steady hand. If you've got the time: cut and test, cut some more and test, etc etc. Pretty soon you'll be rapping out 3rd on the same hill that required second before.

Geckos pretty much blow in my experience. I've ridden the 6 paddle 18" version on a Blaster, the 21" 8 paddle version on a Warrior, and the 21" 8 paddle on a Rap700. On the little bikes they'll get you around fine but that's about it. They just rob too much power from machines that are already hurtin' for more power. You end up crawling up those long steep hills in 2nd at a snails pace--just like you said. You need less traction so the engine can spin those tires. On the Rap700 the Geckos still hurt the top end to a noticeable degree. The Raptor's power hid the "problem" well but when raced against a nearly identical Raptor with better tires the difference was clear.

[maddmatt02]

oh, the 330 is my girlfriends sisters, it used to have awesome power and when Id drag the YFZ, Id actually almost hold it thru 3rd then the YFZ blew it away, I think it was one tooth down from stock? not sure though. but that was when it was her dads, then before it became hers it was the "kids" quad, they rode that thing around and almost never shifted, and the airbox popped back off the frame or something so the carb boot came off the box and sucked who knows how much sand, so it was alot weaker when I took it up the hill. the geckops that were on the 330 were the 21" 8 paddles, they came off the 460 stroker that got a bent frame out there. that bike spun em fine though!

however my 300 is stock, old engine built out of 3 different engines, fresh hone and rings though, UNI/ full DG, no lid, 400 carb.

I am going to do the 385 kit though with the 400 sleeve, probably 11:1 and a hotcam. thats about all i will do to that engine since I will be buying my 450r sometime this year. gotta save the money for that bike, since a fully built 300 wont touch a 450 anyways.

have you ever ridden gbc sand devils or kenda dune runners? they are both pretty inexpensive.

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by maddmatt02
...have you ever ridden gbc sand devils or kenda dune runners? they are both pretty inexpensive.

I've ridden Sand Devils on a 400EX. Their not a bad tire for the price. I own a set of Chen-Shin Dune Hoppers which are I believe are identical to Kenda Dune Runners. They're alright too. The Runners/Hoppers are 22 inchers. That's not a bad size but may require gearing down. They make my 250r feel geared too tall compared to my cut Sharks.

All those tires are good candidates for comp cutting.

I've seen some pretty sick asymmetircal designs shaved out of turf tamers for racing purposes.

[tooney]

Hi,
Wow I was suprised that you guys had even heard of Weston Beach Race over in the USA:macho
The main reason that we shave the sides off the front tyres and only leave the centre tread is because when we go down the 1 mile long straight each lap there is quite alot of standing water which when you have a full tread tyre causes aquaplane and some worrying moments:eek2: ,shaving all the outer treads of made a big difference to the handling.
Hope this goes a small way to helping answer your question.:)