Compression adjustment - 450R shocks

[tri5ron]

a couple of questions reguarding the compression adjustments on 450r shocks.
I have recently installed my new 450r shocks on my 400ex.
I have read the many threads on installing, as well as the link to the HMF thread on setting up suspension.

It seems to me that most here who have installed the 450r shocks, on stock swingarms, say that even though it is a GREAT mod. to do to the 400ex, these shocks are,
"a little too stiff for the smaller bumps or slower speeds".

O.K., I understand that.
and I realize that it is best resolved with re-valving/triple rate springs.

I have also read in the many threads here, that
"The best thing to do with the STOCK 450r springs, is to back-off the spring tension, ALL THE WAY, and to turn the COMPRESSION adjusters to FULL SOFT.

O.K., I'm good with that too. Which brings me to my first question.
Below is a pic of the Compression adjustment on a '08 450r shock,

<a href="http://s111.photobucket.com/albums/n148/tri5ron/03%20400ex/?action=view&current=IMG_8244.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n148/tri5ron/03%20400ex/IMG_8244.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

my first question is,
1- Is this a single, or dual , adjustable compression rate?
(i.e.- is the outer flat sided 'nut', one adjustment rate ?
and is the inner screw a second adjustment rate?)
Or is it a SINGLE adjustment rate, with only the screw?

second question,
2- When I have read to soften the compression rate to
'FULL SOFT', am I adjusting/loosening ONLY the screw, or
BOTH the screw AND the outer nut?

third question,
3- Whatever the answer to question 2 is,...
When I AM loosening the screw and/or the nut,
How far do I loosen it? Will it come to a 'Stop", or is it possible
to loosen it too far, that it will come out?
(in other words,... how do I know what 'FULL SOFT' is?)

Also I have read that, when using 450r shocks on +2" A-arms, the stock 450r springs will not be as bad on the smaller bumps / slower speeds.

O.K., I'm fine with that too,... understanding that, with the wider A-arms, there is more leverage working against the shock/springs, and therefore making them less 'stiff'.

So that brings me to question #4,
I have stock A-arms, and I have 'Flipped" my stock front rims.
(i.e.- plugged the valve stem hole, redrilled a valve stem into the oppisite side of the rim, and mounted the rims onto the hubs 'BACKWARDS", from stock).
By doing this, the front wheels are now 4 1/2" wider from stock.
(and before anyone askes, yes I realize the front brake calipers are exposed, and could be hit by a rock).

But the 4th question is,...
Wouldnt having the stock front wheels 4 1/2" wider,(on stock A-arms), act about the same , (on the front shocks), as having +2" A-arms?
and wouldn't that mean that the stock springs of the 450r shocks shouldn't act as stiff on the smaller bumps, and lower speeds?

BTW- it's too dark now for me to take some pics of the flipped front wheels. I will try to do that tommorow and post them here for you all to see.

so what do you guys say? Pappy? Hornetgod? '08400EX?
Anyone else?

[400Trooper]

tri5ron,

I'll take a stab at this since I have the same shocks and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

#1. 450R shock have both compression and rebound adjustments. Both are for only slow speed adjustments.
The only adjustment you can make is the smaller screw on the inside. The outside "nut" isn't part of the adjustment, so don't loosen it! I'm not sure what would happen, don't find out the hard way!

#2. The screw will only turn so far either way, I believe it is about 5 complete turns. It will stop, when it does just back it off a little bit. The alignment dots are a good judge of distance, you'll see when you are turning the screw.

As far as how you'll know what full soft is, you'll have to take it for a test ride to see. I'm 6' 225lbs and full soft is WAY too soft for me! IMO!!

When you make an adjustment take it for a ride, 1/2 a turn will make a difference, unfortunately it will take you some time to see what you like!

#4. By flipping your rims all you have gained is width of the front end. You haven't added any travel advantage. I seriously doubt you have changed the leverage ratio by much if any. I added +3+1 a arms that aren't long travel and I found that the 450R shock were sufficient for my purposes for the time being.

I am now looking into respringing and revalving by one of a few companies that guys on here have used in the past. C & D racing, GT Thunder, DeRisi racing, TCS racing and or Hygear suspension. All are great companies, so check them out!

I hope this has helped! Good luck and have fun!!
400trooper

[tri5ron]

just a bump,
dosen't anyone else want to comment on the compression adjustment?

O.K., how about your prefrences on the REBOUND adjustment ?

I've heard talk of setting it,(the REBOUND), to almost 'FULL HARD',
with the stock 450r SPRINGS, completly backed off,
and the COMPRESSION set to almost 'FULL SOFT'.

and the stock 400EX REAR shock spring set at about 1/2" spring compression to minimize 'bucking'.

so what say you... ???

[mitchamus]

Flipping your front rims is a horrible idea. You will create alot of bump steer. alot more pressure on you balljoints and tie rods. i would put them back to stock. IMO.

Now i just did the 450R front shocks and i have +1 houser a-arms. i Backed the preload all the way off. set to full soft. and im still messing with the rebound (the screw on the bottom). I think there still to stiff and they raised my ride height which i was bummed about i was using works and wanted to got to some adjustble shocks. im gonna have to look into a rebuild.

[400Trooper]

tri5ron -
I'm still in the learning stage with these specifically regarding rebound. I do desert racing and each area we race in is different. I have my rebound fairly high due to me being "husky" and I want the wheels on the ground quickly. Like I stated previously you'll have to make an adjustment and go try it out!!

I agree with mitchamus about the rims, not a real good ideal! Hit ebay and get some longer a arms! I actually got mine from "Wicked products", check them out good quality and workmanship and fairly reasonable in$$$$. I have had no problems with them and I ride HARD!

[bearair]

I have a set of 2007 450R's on my 2007ex and they raised my ride height a little. I set the preload all the way to about 1 thread from the top, set the compression down (counterclockwise) to about 1/4 and set the rebound at around the halfway mark after playing with it a while. The rebound all the way counterclockwise let's the shock extend faster, and all the way to the right slows it down the most. I like the way they don't bounce the front end back up in the woops.

[Ntensweapon]

Do you guys have starting point for me.....I'm 5'11 200 with gear. +2,+1 arms. I'm an aggressive trail rider, I ride the mx tracks the ohv parks have to offer. Not doing huge doubles or drop offs.
My shocks feel ok I guess. Better than last year on the stockers. I think they could be better with some simple adjustments.
Do you guys have certains rules or baselines in the shop to dial it in closer? Then fine tune on the track? What about squish or droop whatever you call it? Preload? Angle of arms?

I heard someone say they were going to pay 800 for a revalve respring. Then add the cost of the shocks, he was looking at a G on oem shocks. Thats bannanas to me. If it comes to that I will be upgrading to an aftermarket. Everyone says you "gotta do it"
My thoughts are, those shocks adjusted right...will work for a large percentage of riders. Granted racers are going to be asking for a little bit more out of a shock. But if I were racing, I wouldn't be on this shock period.

450r fronts saved my behind about 3 times yesterday. I hit some jumps that where extremely steep sending the quad pretty high up but since I had never done them (nobody has) I just made them out of a high bank turn I didnt give enough gas 1st time trying it and it nose dived and I landed pretty hard on the front and the shocks just soaked it up and made me float safely down. Then I was haulin a** over these huge whoops and I pounded the last 1 that was biggest so hard but I didnt front flip like when I had my stock shocks. They are amazing. Jumping, whoops, trail riding, everything they are better than the 400ex stock shocks. You notice how great they are even more when you ride with 450r fronts and then take someones 400ex with stock fronts over the same terrain and you get flung around liek a rag doll. I am 6'1" 155LBS without gear I set the preload so the rings are 2 threads from the top and the compression all the way out. Rebound I slowed down a bit but I still need to play with it. GREAT INVESTMENT!!! for you with +2 a-arms and 200LBS with gear I wouldnt put the compression as soft as it can go and I wouldnt set the preload so the collars are near the top. Its hard to tell on what to set it to because you dont know what terrain your riding in or how hard you ride. You have to do a trial and error set it one way the the other see whas best. Play around wiht stuff until you think its right.

[bearair]

Compared to the stockers, they are very rideable for a 200+ lb. person. Huge difference over stock. They soak up things that the stockers won't and they are WAY more plush in the wooped out trail sections. They are kind of like my old Work shocks I had on my quadracer a few years ago. They seem to get better if you're more agressive.

I'm 235 lbs. and like to trail ride with the wife which means 2nd-3rd gear plonking around some of the really wide open and some technical desert terrain around here. I have +2 JD arms and that makes a huge difference with the stock springs. I consider them to be a very decent improvement just for general play riding. I have the preload set to about 1 thread from the top, the compression damping at about 1/4 from full soft and the rebound at about 1/2 which is the dimples lined up at center of travel. For someone lighter or with stock arms I'd lighten up the compression damping and probably increase the rebound a bit. Just make sure you have a bit more rebound in the rear to keep it from trying to buck as much.

I also like to go to a place near here and do some more MX style stuff. Not huge jumps, but lots of woop sections and berms to shoot. For that I turn the rebound down a bit on both ends so the shocks can keep the wheels in contact with the ground in the rough stuff.

I still think that revalving is the way to go with them. Both ends can stand some work and setting up the spring rate and valving for your riding style makes all the difference in my opinion. The stock shocks are stiff for the 400ex unless you carry a bit more weight or like to really be aggressive. The 450R front arms are slightly wider and that may make the difference. Going to +2's completely changed the nature of the 450R shocks for me. MUCH more rideable. If I didn't have any more money to spend on the bike I could easily live with them the way they are.

[Ntensweapon]

Thanks for the info guys! Keep it coming. There is still some more adjustments I'd like to explore. I want to set them up so they are the best they possibly can be as they sit. I don't think I can stomach 8 bills on a rework though. My local guy could probably do it for half that though. If they don't work out, I'll move them. I think they will serve the purpose though.
My next move will probably be taking it to the bike shop and put it in the jig to setup the whole front end and rear suspension. I think there is alot value alone in setting the squish, sag or droop as i call it.

[Ntensweapon]

Foxhondarider...You're kinda holding out on me. LOL Found some good writeups here..

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=340566&highlight=suspension+setup

This is some of the info I've been looking for. I searched about a month prior to that thread being started.

Good stuff

[XXXRACER165]

I put a pair of '06 450R shocks on a week ago and tuned them perfect without a revalve. I'm 6'2 250lbs by the way, and have the preload set to the factory setting. I turned the compression all the way soft then 1 full turn out from that, this allows the shocks to soak up bumps with ease. Rebound is set half a turn from being all the way soft. You want the rebound like this cause the wheels touch the ground more for better control. Just my scoop.

Originally posted by Ntensweapon
Foxhondarider...You're kinda holding out on me. LOL

I dont understand? lol

[Ntensweapon]

Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
I dont understand? lol



You had a good writeup about how to set sag in the thread I referenced. Did you not?


sorry for kinda hijacking your thread tri5ron.

Originally posted by Ntensweapon
You had a good writeup about how to set sag in the thread I referenced. Did you not?


sorry for kinda hijacking your thread tri5ron.

yeah I know but he was asking more of compression and not setting up sag so i didnt think of it sorry. All my measurements were before I had 450r front shocks. I should re do it again and take measurements, they should be about the same because I have the preload so far on the shocks. It might be lower so i'll measure it when I get a chance to. Right now my quad is sideways on a trailer with my brothers quad sideways in front of it held on by tiedowns with the edges of the tires on the edge of the trailer so I cant measure anything right now.

[tri5ron]

no need to be sorry,
still lots of good info here,
keep it coming, and I can edit the thread title if necessary.