How can it be wrong to not beleive in God? [Archive]

bwamos

04-01-2008, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by walshyfz86
im sure there was a guy named jesus but i don't believe in anything els. to me he was the first documented person. and thats it. I think its just a comfort zone some people use. i don't believe in any of that crap. but this old lady i work with flips out on me cause i don't. she tells me i have no idea how much he helps me and blahblahblahblah. to people who do believe in him. where wrong for not. but to us there not wrong for believing.:devil:

Not trying to bash or anything of that fasion.
Just wanted to correct a couple things if that is ok. If not ignore. ;)

Jesus was far from the first documented person. Far far far from.
I'm not here to pass anything information off to anyone who doesn't want it. Unfortunate, but that is their choice. I'm more than willing to share my findings and answer questions for those that are interested, however.

The other small thing, and common misconception is that it's a "comfort zone". If you read into the scripture and commands and instruction it's far from a confort zone. Honestly the command is to do quite the opposite.

Also there are many many many people whom do think it is wrong to beleive, and infact there are cases in the courts and congress constantly tying to make it illegal to express your faith in any public or private fasion.

Just a couple friendly notes from your local, typical, right-winged, conservative, southern baptist. ;) :D

miller821

04-01-2008, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by NacsMXer
It's not wrong to not believe, that is your opinion and your belief.

I am a person of faith, but I don't condemn those that don't believe, many of my own friends don't. It is up to you to make that decision, not anybody else, so it's your own business IMO.

Faith is choosing to believe in what is not absolutely certain, what cannot be proven, yet you still believe because you have this "faith". Whether you choose to have faith or not is entirely up to you :)

I would agree 100% with what Nac's just said.

250r(quadman19)

04-01-2008, 12:40 PM

reptike, i never said anything about christians. for me to be disrespectful and point fingers to any religion is me being ignorant. i was simply talking about the belief of god. i respect everyones beliefs even if i don't agree with them.

wilkin250r

04-01-2008, 01:03 PM

We are at an interesting point in history. For quite some time, it has been acceptable for religion to permeate almost every aspect of life. Although the concept of "separation of church and state" has long existed, it has still been acceptable to begin legislative sessions with prayer, and hang the Ten Commandments on the courthouse wall. God is in our historic documents, our holidays, and our elections.

But lately, the athiest crowd is fighting back. Before, they simply ignored all those infractions, those invasions of belief. But that's not enough anymore. They want to remove God from money, from the plege of allegiance, and anywhere else they can.

Nowadays, Christianity is under attack. Just the opposite of the original subject of this thread, it is rapidly becoming "wrong" to believe in God. Many people percieve it to be a sign of weakness, lack of intelligence, and also becoming seen as a sign of bigotry and elitism.

Me, personally, I'm a firm believer in the Almighty. But I don't share it much. I don't give a lick about saving anybody, your eternal damnation is entirely your own to avoid.

bwamos

04-01-2008, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by ride hard man
I would agree 100% with what Nac's just said.

For the sake of a civilized discussion and a bit of healthy debate.

I tend to define faith a bit differently. Granted his definition can be swung many different way. It's pretty broad. But many define faith as beleiving in something without much or any evidence. That is what I call gullibility, or "blind faith".

I do not subscribe to a blind faith. I have a proven faith.
What do I mean by this?

I'll use an ATV Analogy in order to help seperate the term from its religious stigma.

Lets say I'm sending off my frame to a local powdercoater I have not used, nor has anyone else I know has used. When I send off the frame I "hope" that the frame is returned with a powdercoating job that of an expected quality. This is not faith. This is blind luck.. lol.

Faith would be if I were to send my frame off to Pappy knowing that I would get a powdercoat job done that meets or exceeds expectations and that I would get honest and reputable service. I have faith in this because of the testimony that others have given on here of his service. The evidence given in his photographs. And the character shown in his dealings.

An action of faith would be if I were to go one step further and actually send him my frame.

Proven faith would be when I get it all back as expected, pricing was fair, communication was good, and there were no run-arounds.

Acting on my proven faith would be my repeat business based on others experience along with my own experience. ;) It's not an absolute.. it is based on trust, and knowledge. He could go crazy and paint it pink with Rustoleum, chop it up into 6" sections and ship it back to me COD. ;)

250xridamatt

04-01-2008, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by wilkin250r
We are at an interesting point in history. For quite some time, it has been acceptable for religion to permeate almost every aspect of life. Although the concept of "separation of church and state" has long existed, it has still been acceptable to begin legislative sessions with prayer, and hang the Ten Commandments on the courthouse wall. God is in our historic documents, our holidays, and our elections.

But lately, the athiest crowd is fighting back. Before, they simply ignored all those infractions, those invasions of belief. But that's not enough anymore. They want to remove God from money, from the plege of allegiance, and anywhere else they can.

Nowadays, Christianity is under attack. Just the opposite of the original subject of this thread, it is rapidly becoming "wrong" to believe in God. Many people percieve it to be a sign of weakness, lack of intelligence, and also becoming seen as a sign of bigotry and elitism.

Me, personally, I'm a firm believer in the Almighty. But I don't share it much. I don't give a lick about saving anybody, your eternal damnation is entirely your own to avoid.

It is very ironic that everyone is trying to remove Christianity from the US. The United States was founded by men who believed in God (for the most part). Most of the constitution is based on things from the Bible. If they were alive today they would be horrified to see everything they created taken apart or changed. They created the seperation of church and state to prevent what happened in England from happening to them, not to completely remove God from anything political.

04-01-2008, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by hawood
God hwo? I don't remember school teaching us anything about this so-called God, they said that man came from monkeys and that the unaverse was created in the big bang ( first there was nothing, and then it exploded ) Hmmmmm, maybe there is a God and maybe they are WRONG.

There isnt a whole lot of proof in God being there. I believe in him and I know he is there. Thats what I believe. However there is reason that we did NOT evolve from monkeys! For the most part isnt natural selection when something can survive and it evolves but others die off because they cant survive? Well if thats the case would monkeys be dead? I think of it as how can something naturally be created? Do you think we came from micro organisms? Also why would a book be written and there be so many believers if it wasnt real? I dont think its wrong to NOT believe in God, everyone has the free choice and I understand everyone has their own beliefs. There is proof of somethings like Noahs Ark. How the heck would remains of a boat get into mountains? I honestly dont think it would be possible to naturally have a flood for 40 days and 40 nights. But anyways is it wrong to not beileve in God? No its not, everyone has their own way of life and its up to them how they want to live it.

Hondamaster5505

04-01-2008, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by 250xridamatt
I just can't get myself to believe that everything in our world just came about by chance. Ever taken an advanced Biology class? The irreducible complexity of some organisms, and just how everything works together so perfectly makes it very hard for me to think it happened randomly. I don't understand how scientists can see that every day, and even study it but still think it just came about by chance. They won't let themselves believe in God, so they think up any reason they can for how something happened, except a divine creator.

Exactly how I feel.

I call it "Intelligent Design"

Some things in the world just baffle me, and some things are so confusing, and so complex, I doubt it could have just created itself.
So yes, I believe in God, and that there IS some kind of creator out there creating these complex, intelligent designs.

Not saying being athiest is wrong, believe what you want and follow it, but as a christian I do believe in guiding people in the right direction.

I know many times that when I wrecked my ATV, or something else, I would feel like I shouldn't have lived that. I sometimes didnt even get scratches on me, so there has to be someone looking out for us.

klutch

04-01-2008, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by Hondamaster5505
Exactly how I feel.

I call it "Intelligent Design"

Some things in the world just baffle me, and some things are so confusing, and so complex, I doubt it could have just created itself.
So yes, I believe in God, and that there IS some kind of creator out there creating these complex, intelligent designs.

Not saying being athiest is wrong, believe what you want and follow it, but as a christian I do believe in guiding people in the right direction.

I know many times that when I wrecked my ATV, or something else, I would feel like I shouldn't have lived that. I sometimes didnt even get scratches on me, so there has to be someone looking out for us.

Sooo let me get this straight... LETS JUST SAY that I was a christian... catholic... whatever.... and lets say I flipped my ATV off a hill and died.... what makes you any better than me? Why wasn't i being watched? or looked over?

Also, one thing i truly hate. Is when people say something about the fact that people that don't believe are bad or go to hell or blah blah blah. When the people saying it do drugs, they drink, they smoke, they do all these bad things. I don't do anything wrong I just don't believe. What makes these people better than I? It just truly doesn't make any sence at all.

J//FLY

04-01-2008, 02:43 PM

man this is a pretty good debate.

Hondamaster5505

04-01-2008, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by klutch
Sooo let me get this straight... LETS JUST SAY that I was a christian... catholic... whatever.... and lets say I flipped my ATV off a hill and died.... what makes you any better than me? Why wasn't i being watched? or looked over?

Also, one thing i truly hate. Is when people say something about the fact that people that don't believe are bad or go to hell or blah blah blah. When the people saying it do drugs, they drink, they smoke, they do all these bad things. I don't do anything wrong I just don't believe. What makes these people better than I? It just truly doesn't make any sence at all.

Well, if you rolled down the hill and killed yourself, its probably because he was mad you ride a 450r and hate banshee's:p lol

All kidding aside,
Like people, I don't think God can watch EVERYONE at once, that would be pretty damn confusing.
Also, I believe some people are ment to die, and I don't say that meaning any cruelty to anyone, but you never know why. Some people just aren't ment to live, and im sure there's a reason.
But for you, you're still alive and breathing, aren't you? Your still healthy, arent you?

Also, what you mentioned about going to hell for doing drugs etc.
I DONT BELIEVE IT! The catholic church over the years twisted things so many times its not even funny.
If you actually sit and read the bible, it says NOWHERE that if you don't go to church every Sunday, that you're a bad person and going to hell. Some people honestly don't have time sometimes.

Don't go by everything the church says, and I know you're athiest and everything, but if you get a chance, sit down and read a bible, or at least a part of it. You'll see how much the church sometimes twists things around.

I AM a religious person, and am a christian, but dont believe I have to go to church every Sunday to prove it.

klutch

04-01-2008, 02:51 PM

I am athiest but i go to church every weekend and as much as i can.
Want to know what my church is?

If you thought my church was ATV Riding you are correct! While everyone is at church I am riding and having fun. No offence to anyone when i say this. But i find it to be a waste of time to go and sit there every sunday and stuff. I go ATV riding or boating.

04-01-2008, 02:56 PM

Long time ago earth was constantly hit by lightning. The lightning striking the ground formed a chemical which started the first form of life. So wheres god come in to this now? Is he the one making the lightning strike or what?

I also believe their is life on other planets. Not skinny green aliens. Talking animals, bugs, humans. The big boom happened and is still supposed to be happening the world is supposed to be getting bigger every second from it still. So their probably is other life in other galaxies since we know almost nothing about space.

Another thing is the suns life is half gone. Once it dies it will turn into a black hole and Mercury and Venus will be pulled in and Possibly earth to. If we dont get pulled in we will all freez to death from no sun. Whats going to happen then? All life just supposed to live in hevan and hell then?

HERES SOMTHING I COPIED AND PASTED
“If you believe that this invisible giant man got a 13-year-old virgin girl pregnant, who then gave birth to him as his own son and still she remains a virgin”..?…seriously here people.
“If you believe that some “good” god person is going to reward you for killing living, breathing human beings “in his name” (take the crusades for example)
“If you believe that believing in one God makes you better than and superior to those who don’t”(come on..)
The human culture has been following this “god” for centuries.If “god” will forgive us all no matter what our sins why does he send us to “hell”?..Do not try and convince me “god” is real by saying when people die they see “the light” this has been proven that it is a disfunction in the brain when you are bewteen dieing and living which brings you flashbacks of your memories..so no you didnt see grandma on the stairway to “heaven”.

mod440ex

04-01-2008, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by bulkdriverlp
i dont beleive either, gotta see it to believe it jmo

how can you go outside day or night and look around and think"this all came from an explosion" it seems weird to me how someone can think that plants growing using the light off of another object can make food and live. or how you can look at a little baby and think that out of some sort of chaotic explosion everything just so happened to land in the right spot and there was life. look at the solar system and all the huge planets, moons, and stars just happened to land right where they are and it just so happened that it was just right to support life or the changing of seasons. i mean i could go on all day about things like that.

04-01-2008, 03:06 PM

human could start life on mars. All that would have to be done is put a huge machine on that planet that makes co2 and then heat would get trapped in on mars. Ice would melt and plants would grow and start making o2. Life would then be on mars. God would have nothing to do wit hstarting life on that planet then.

Heres the thing. When the unexplained happens most people blame it on god.

As for the moon. Many planets have moons.

mod440ex

04-01-2008, 03:08 PM

life would not start on mars if you didnt have something like a seed for grass, or an egg for a bird. yeah we might be able to expand living areas but life is already here and is all you would be doing is moving it.

Hondamaster5505

04-01-2008, 03:13 PM

"Long time ago earth was constantly hit by lightning. The lightning striking the ground formed a chemical which started the first form of life. So wheres god come in to this now? Is he the one making the lightning strike or what?"

Yeah, im sure living creatures/organisms were created by lightning strikes. :rolleyes: I also guess humans are maid of jello.
No one was around in that time period to actually study the lightning and make a conclusion that it created life. Thats like me saying aliens ate the lost colony of Roanoke. hmm, wait a second, I wasnt around to study it or see it, so how can I make a conclusion.

"Another thing is the suns life is half gone. Once it dies it will turn into a black hole and Mercury and Venus will be pulled in and Possibly earth to. If we dont get pulled in we will all freez to death from no sun. Whats going to happen then? All life just supposed to live in hevan and hell then?"

Yeah, you know what? The Sun will eventually die out, but not ANYTIME soon. Billions of years from now maybe.
So you know where human kind will be by that time?
1) Humans wouldve destroyed themselves between war, politics, and just general corruptness.
2) Our technology would be so far advanced that they might be living in a whole new earth in a different solar system for all we know. Because the Sun's gonna die, it doesnt mean there might not be a another solar system out there somewhere with another Sun and Earth type planet. You just don't know.

We can just bring the life God created for us to the new place, we wouldnt be creating anthing new.

mod440ex

04-01-2008, 03:27 PM

exactly. couldnt have put it any better.

250r(quadman19)

04-01-2008, 03:29 PM

i just can't see the whole "god" creating humans and all this stuff. well i guess its like he has an easy bake oven up in the sky and decided he was tired of brownies and decided to make humans. lol j/p with yall. religions come and go! its a fact look at greek mythology. they believed in many gods and no one would have ever questioned the gods in fear of being struck down. but we look at it now and we no there's no zeus, posiedon, hades or any of that. the same with all other religions now. they are popular now but eventually they will die out and new ones will take their place...probably scientology will be the new christianity and tom cruise is jesus. christianity was made the religion when constantine was ruling rome and accepted it as his religion. he used pagan beliefs to try and allow other religions to follow christianity.the "hell" that everyone fears has been around since man could talk. christianitys hell came from the greek underworld of hades and satan was based on hades.

04-01-2008, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by Hondamaster5505
"Long time ago earth was constantly hit by lightning. The lightning striking the ground formed a chemical which started the first form of life. So wheres god come in to this now? Is he the one making the lightning strike or what?"

Yeah, im sure living creatures/organisms were created by lightning strikes. :rolleyes: I also guess humans are maid of jello.
No one was around in that time period to actually study the lightning and make a conclusion that it created life. Thats like me saying aliens ate the lost colony of Roanoke. hmm, wait a second, I wasnt around to study it or see it, so how can I make a conclusion.

"Another thing is the suns life is half gone. Once it dies it will turn into a black hole and Mercury and Venus will be pulled in and Possibly earth to. If we dont get pulled in we will all freez to death from no sun. Whats going to happen then? All life just supposed to live in hevan and hell then?"

Yeah, you know what? The Sun will eventually die out, but not ANYTIME soon. Billions of years from now maybe.
So you know where human kind will be by that time?
1) Humans wouldve destroyed themselves between war, politics, and just general corruptness.
2) Our technology would be so far advanced that they might be living in a whole new earth in a different solar system for all we know. Because the Sun's gonna die, it doesnt mean there might not be a another solar system out there somewhere with another Sun and Earth type planet. You just don't know.

We can just bring the life God created for us to the new place, we wouldnt be creating anthing new.

But human life probably won’t make it that long. With in 100 years if we keep producing co2 like we do most of the USA will be under water. Earth will start getting really hot after a while and the sun will get hotter and hotter as it gets older. Also the sun will get way bigger. It will be way to hot. We would have to live in basically a water world. And in 30 years an asteroid is going to hit earth and kill us all at less we can some how pull it off track and make it miss earth. And under yellow stone is a giant volcano. It goes off so many years. Its time is up. It could go off any time. If it does almost every one and thing will be dead. After it cools earth will turn into an ice age for 10+ years from the smoke blocking out the sun.

mod440ex

04-01-2008, 03:32 PM

look at how long christianity has been around its not just some fad we are going throught. its not going anywhere.

mod440ex

04-01-2008, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by bajaracer21
But human life probably won’t make it that long. With in 100 years if we keep producing co2 like we do most of the USA will be under water. Earth will start getting really hot after a while and the sun will get hotter and hotter as it gets older. Also the sun will get way bigger. It will be way to hot. We would have to live in basically a water world. And in 30 years an asteroid is going to hit earth and kill us all at less we can some how pull it off track and make it miss earth. And under yellow stone is a giant volcano. It goes off so many years. Its time is up. It could go off any time. If it does almost every one and thing will be dead. After it cools earth will turn into an ice age for 10+ years from the smoke blocking out the sun.

well if all that is going to happen then at least i know i will be in Heaven after it happens.

cantthinkofname

04-01-2008, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by 250r(quadman19)
i just can't see the whole "god" creating humans and all this stuff. well i guess its like he has an easy bake oven up in the sky and decided he was tired of brownies and decided to make humans. lol j/p with yall. religions come and go! its a fact look at greek mythology. they believed in many gods and no one would have ever questioned the gods in fear of being struck down. but we look at it now and we no there's no zeus, posiedon, hades or any of that. the same with all other religions now. they are popular now but eventually they will die out and new ones will take their place...probably scientology will be the new christianity and tom cruise is jesus. christianity was made the religion when constantine was ruling rome and accepted it as his religion. he used pagan beliefs to try and allow other religions to follow christianity.the "hell" that everyone fears has been around since man could talk. christianitys hell came from the greek underworld of hades and satan was based on hades.

Yes but, christianity had evolved from judism after jesus came to earth and judism was around for a long long time

04-01-2008, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by reptikes
I will always preach the word and always try to plant that seed in your mind that just might save you.
I will try to plant a seed when the oppertunity arises, without pushing them away. You shouldn't force your belief on somebody else, but you should (as a good christian) try to guide them in a good direction.

that is what pushes me away from any religion...don't try to push your beliefs on me...don't try to save me...save me from what, you die, that is it...there is no after life...there is no heaven or hell...why is it you duty to "save" me anyway...

why is there no middle ground? is it possible that there are many gods, but they drained all of their combined powers to make the universe like it is? or that they no longer interfere. is it possible that we are just a "tv show" to them now?

Hondamaster5505

04-01-2008, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by mod440ex
well if all that is going to happen then at least i know i will be in Heaven after it happens.

hahaha. exactly.

Im not even gonna keep fighting with bajaracer21. In my honest opinion he seems a little off the deep end, like nuts. I never met anyone so damn depressing.

At least I know ill be in heaven while you guys go down down down into the ring of fire:p

lol, j/p

Doober

04-01-2008, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by speedyquad
that is what pushes me away from any religion...don't try to push your beliefs on me...don't try to save me...save me from what, you die, that is it...there is no after life...there is no heaven or hell...why is it you duty to "save" me anyway...

he said he plants the seed, never pushes.

anymore you cant even talk about God to someone who doesn't believe, without them thinking you are trying to push them to believe in God. He's just expressing his views in the same way you are.

250r(quadman19)

04-01-2008, 04:09 PM

there can never be an intelligent debate about religion. it always turn into anger and hate. it upsets me to see so much fighting, hatred, discrimination, and separation in this world due to religion. we could do so much more if we could accept each others beliefs and not try and force people into their beliefs or hate each other over it. it's so sad how its the west vs. the east in this world or palestinians vs. jews. etc. its so so sad and it will always be like this. miracles arent brought on by a superior being or a prophet or son of god. it's made by us caring for each other no matter what someone else believes in. our world is so divided and we can't come together as one world-one love. so sickening. i don't think any god, jesus, muhammad, moses, buddha or any religious symbol would really want this in our world. there is NO justification for the killing and hatred in this world due to different beliefs. and for anyone to say muslims are terrorists is just an ignorant FOOL. that makes me want to puke when anyone i know calls a muslim a raghead or terrorist. SORRY HAD TO VENT. lol

mod440ex

04-01-2008, 04:18 PM

i know i am not getting angry. it is my job has a christian to like others have said "plant a seed" if it takes thats great but if it doesnt im not going to hate you for that. if you are set in your ways there is not going to be much i can say or do to pursuade you that you are wrong. the only thing i can do is put it in your mind.

04-01-2008, 04:21 PM

theres no way a god as passionate as the one described in the bible is true. no way he would allow humans to behave the way they do, and allow innocent people die horrible agonizing deaths. and allow whole races to suffer.

we 100% no getting around it came from monkeys. watch BET. theres your proof.

to who ever said that evolution was random. how random is a guy poofing out of nowhere and in 7 days creating all the animals and humans you see today.

atleast there have been experiments to show that life can possibly generate its self from simple elements. all it takes is electricity, the known gas's that were of prehistoric times and water and you will end up with basic protiens which is the building blocks to life.

mod440ex

04-01-2008, 04:24 PM

i dont even know why i even bother debating with people like you.

have you ever heard of sodom and gamorha(sp) its says in the bible that God is a vengeful God

04-01-2008, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by mod440ex
i dont even know why i even bother debating with people like you.

have you ever heard of sodom and gamorha(sp) its says in the bible that God is a vengeful God

all god is, is something to fall back on. humans as a whole are very weak minded and have to many doubts. so why not make up some fictional character to make us feel better

which sounds better.

"you have cancer and your going to die a slow and painfull death....atleast ill have heaven when i die and ill be happy."

or

"you have cancer and your going to die a slow and painfull death... i only have a few months untill i am no more."

04-01-2008, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by Doober
he said he plants the seed, never pushes.

anymore you cant even talk about God to someone who doesn't believe, without them thinking you are trying to push them to believe in God. He's just expressing his views in the same way you are.

he can express his views all he wants, but when he tries to plant the seed, something i don't want, he is pushing me towards his belief and away from from. why can't they accept that i don't want anything to do with it. i don't believe and i never will.

yes i have had hardships in my life. i survived a tornado, my best friend and his parents died. where was god at then? i was fighting a structure fire from inside, the floor above us collapsed...just after all of us had gotten out of the house. i don't think god had anything to do with either of those.

when i was in college, i sat for an hour and listened to a kid from the christian club speak to me on religion and why i should believe. he had some good points, but none that could sway the way i feel.

out of respect for my wife and her family, who believes, i go to church almost weekly, i do the extra services for christmas and easter. i allow myself into that "enlightenment" every week, when the scritpures are read, i can't help but think how easily the bible could have been a book of fiction. i have no prrof that it is or is not fiction. i honestly don't believe it is all fiction, but some fact filled with fiction.

in the end, i am not condemning reptikes for believing, i am condemning anybody that wants to put me onto believing what they believe, whether it be by planting a seed or pushing me.

Hondamaster5505

04-01-2008, 04:36 PM

God gives us life.

What we do with our lives we do ourselves, it isn't Gods fault. He gives everyone a choice on how they want to live. He gives life, we decide what to do with it.

04-01-2008, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by mod440ex
it is my job has a christian to like others have said "plant a seed"

why should you plant a seed that i may not want...this is infringing upon freedom to make choices. while planting that seed, you are forcing me to listen to something i may not want. what makes your religion better than any other?

Hondamaster5505

04-01-2008, 04:45 PM

Here's a story that is all true. I wish I could remember the guys name and when it happened, but its been a while. This was big a while back. I believe every part of it.

There was this guy a while back. He never went to church, never prayed, and was always doing bad things. I mean stealing (small stuff) fighting with random people, always in a bad mood, I mean this guy was miserable.

Well, he got into an accident and actually died. It was about 30mins maybe an hour until the guy woke up, they were actually able to revive him!

His story after he fully recovered was pretty intresting. He claimed that when he was dead, he actually went to this dark place, otherwise known as hell. People there tortured him, and whenever he said "Jesus" the "people" cringed.

Ever since he was revived back to life, he told his story. He became so religious after that its not even funny. I mean church everyday, praying all the time, doing good deeds etc.

I know it sounds far out there, but this event actually happened. I believe it too. There is no way he would change that quickly if he was lying. I mean an instant change from mean to religious.

Now, I know some of that story sounds iffy, like the part about being dead for that long until he was revived, but it was something that actually occoured. If I remember right it was actually on the news, i cant recall though.

Hondamaster5505

04-01-2008, 04:49 PM

Originally posted by speedyquad
why should you plant a seed that i may not want...this is infringing upon freedom to make choices. while planting that seed, you are forcing me to listen to something i may not want. what makes your religion better than any other?

Thats the point. If you don't want to take the seed, thats perfectly fine. You can water it to grow, or you can leave it be. You dont have to take it.

I just wish people would stop these debates. Everyone has the right to they're own religion. We shouldnt force people to do one or the other.
When our time on this earth is over, there the real answer lies. We shall then find out whats true and what isnt.

Im a Catholic. Your an Athiest. If we all got along, there would be so much less arguing in the world.

04-01-2008, 04:51 PM

what proof is there that the guy actually experienced that? i have had dreams where i was flying, but yet, i didn't actually fly. i passed out in the tornado, only for a few seconds. i thought i heard my grandfather talking to me, as well as a younger brother that had been a still born. do i actually think they were near...ahh no...

04-01-2008, 04:56 PM

exactly, don't try to give me your religion. what you don't realize is that by giving me that seed, you are offending my beliefs. in effect, you are saying that my beliefs are not as good as yours. would you be offended if i tried to plant my "anti-god" beliefs on you? i bet that you would. you don't see me trying to make you not believe, why should you try to make me believe?

actually, i am catholic also. i may be playing the part of the devils advocate here. you never know.

Hondamaster5505

04-01-2008, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by speedyquad
what proof is there that the guy actually experienced that? i have had dreams where i was flying, but yet, i didn't actually fly. i passed out in the tornado, only for a few seconds. i thought i heard my grandfather talking to me, as well as a younger brother that had been a still born. do i actually think they were near...ahh no...

You see, the difference is, he wasnt sleeping.

You don't dream when your dead, so I found it kinda creepy.

Ill try to look it up, if I find it ill post it.

Hondamaster5505

04-01-2008, 04:58 PM

Originally posted by speedyquad
exactly, don't try to give me your religion. what you don't realize is that by giving me that seed, you are offending my beliefs. in effect, you are saying that my beliefs are not as good as yours. would you be offended if i tried to plant my "anti-god" beliefs on you? i bet that you would. you don't see me trying to make you not believe, why should you try to make me believe?

actually, i am catholic also. i may be playing the part of the devils advocate here. you never know.

I wouldn't be offended, I would go on my own way, knowing im Catholic and nothing will change that. Everyone has their own opinions.

04-01-2008, 05:09 PM

you are missing my point, his whole story could be fabricated. where is the proof that is actually happened.

i can produce proof that my family was in the tornado, physical proof. my parents have pictures of the "lot" after all was destroyed. they have pics of all of our cuts and bruises.

you may have proof that he was revived, but there is no tangible evidence that he was in hell and that he was tortured. that every one cringed when they heard the name jesus. i call bull to the story until you can prove that it is 100% true.

yes you would be offended, that is why you are here debating this with me. i questioned your beliefs by staring what i felt. i haven't even given any reasons as to why i believe what i do, but yet you feel the need to defend your beliefs and want me to conform to them. you are offended by the fact that i don't follow your path, therefore you defend it adn try to sway me onto your paths.

04-01-2008, 05:30 PM

After reading all of these post I can say wow... people have thought of some dumb ideas on how we came about and how the Earth was made without God. I pretty much shook my head and laughed. I'm not trying to mock anyone but it makes absolutley no sense how we could have came from monkeys or jus naturally evolved from some micro organism. We had to be put here by someone. Everything had to be put here by someone. And yes people are looked upon, its not just luck, its God. The man upstairs. I have my own beliefs and I stick to them. I choose to believe in God and I myself know there is a God. Why would people write a book about it or look how many people on Earth believe in a God? They are teaching in the Bible how to live life and it explains how EVERYTHING came about.

tgreenz400

04-01-2008, 05:35 PM

How did that ship get up into the mountains? Please explain it to me. You guys should know because you know everything else that can prove that god is fake.

reptikes

04-01-2008, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by Hondamaster5505
God gives us life.

What we do with our lives we do ourselves, it isn't Gods fault. He gives everyone a choice on how they want to live. He gives life, we decide what to do with it.

Exactly, Its called (free will.) (right and wrong) God has nothing to do with you being an idiot and wrecking your quad and breaking both your legs. Or some terrorist blowing somebody up. You make the choices in your life and you live with those choices.

Hey speedyquad, do you believe there was ever a real Tyrannosaurus Rex walking the earth? I know you've never seen one! And don't say you've seen Fossils because when you go to a Museum all you see is a mold of what they tell you was a DINOSAURS BONES.

And last, believing in God has nothing to do with RELIGION. I'm not RELIGIOUS at all nor do i believe in RELIGION. I'm Spiritual.

450raider

04-01-2008, 06:03 PM

ok ill give my take....im confused as all get out about it, it seems to me if theres a forgiving god that makes things happen then why do bad things happen to good people and vice versa and yes good things do happen to bad people, ive seen first hand and thats just not right...

and ill add that where i live, (be VERY clear on that) is a christian ran town full of the biggest hypocrits in the country 2 yrs ago we got a x rated store, it wasnt hurting anyone and after i just happened to meet the owners (a husband and wife) i find that they are extremely nice people....they last about a month before the courthouse and locals put out money to build a small church across the street from it and here theres a 100yd. rule or something and they got forced out of buisness.... "shall not judge" yeah boy

04-01-2008, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
After reading all of these post I can say wow... people have thought of some dumb ideas on how we came about and how the Earth was made without God. I pretty much shook my head and laughed. I'm not trying to mock anyone but it makes absolutley no sense how we could have came from monkeys or jus naturally evolved from some micro organism. We had to be put here by someone. Everything had to be put here by someone. And yes people are looked upon, its not just luck, its God. The man upstairs. I have my own beliefs and I stick to them. I choose to believe in God and I myself know there is a God. Why would people write a book about it or look how many people on Earth believe in a God? They are teaching in the Bible how to live life and it explains how EVERYTHING came about.

where did god come from dick? had to have just poofed huh?

you have got to be freaking kidding me.

04-01-2008, 06:08 PM

believing in god is like believing in santa or the tooth fairy...wheres the proof? see evolutionists we actualys have proof
you can take a uncontamated flask seal it with water and various gasses and admit electric shock to it, and in a mere matter of weeks there is a build up of protien the basic make up of all life on earth! explain that please! add a few million years and tell me why those protiens cant form into some micro organism! for the love of god take the wool from over your eyes!

reptikes

04-01-2008, 06:12 PM

Originally posted by 450raider
ok ill give my take....im confused as all get out about it, it seems to me if theres a forgiving god that makes things happen then why do bad things happen to good people and vice versa and yes good things do happen to bad people, ive seen first hand and thats just not right...

God does not make bad things happen to good people or vise versa. Things happen and thats life. How we deal with those good or bad things is what God looks at.

reptikes

04-01-2008, 06:20 PM

Originally posted by z400rider08
you can take a uncontamated flask seal it with water and various gasses and admit electric shock to it, and in a mere matter of weeks there is a build up of protien the basic make up of all life on earth! explain that please! add a few million years and tell me why those protiens cant form into some micro organism!

Don't take this wrong, but your not making to much sense.
The basic make up of all life on earth isn't protien.!? Its Amino Acids, thus making protien. Don't get mad and just type away because like fighting, you get wreckless.

250r(quadman19)

04-01-2008, 06:20 PM

what makes anyone think there's one god?? would anyone be offended if i imagine god as a playboy bunny instead of some old wrinkley dude with a white beard? :D

klutch

04-01-2008, 06:21 PM

Originally posted by Hondamaster5505
Thats the point. If you don't want to take the seed, thats perfectly fine. You can water it to grow, or you can leave it be. You dont have to take it.

I just wish people would stop these debates. Everyone has the right to they're own religion. We shouldnt force people to do one or the other.
When our time on this earth is over, there the real answer lies. We shall then find out whats true and what isnt.

Im a Catholic. Your an Athiest. If we all got along, there would be so much less arguing in the world.

Hey... we get along lol. Your catholic. I am atheist. You have never tried to "plant the seed" in me. (Don't try now). lol
We have our own little debates but all in good fun. Though we don't force anything upon each other.

reptikes

04-01-2008, 06:22 PM

I never heard that God was a wrinkley guy with a white beard?:huh

kawiefan

04-01-2008, 06:24 PM

I don't believe in god but I strongly believe the bible was written as a book of guide lines that you should follow

04-01-2008, 06:24 PM

Originally posted by reptikes
Don't take this wrong, but your not making to much sense.
The basic make up of all life on earth isn't protien.!? Its Amino Acids, thus making protien. Don't get mad and just type away because like fighting, you get wreckless.

ahh get off your high and mighty horse there buddy you know what i mean im just going by past references from a couple years ago. if i were going to do a report on it yeah i would have double checked to make sure i was right, but yes your correct it is amino acid and then protien came after.

Hondamaster5505

04-01-2008, 06:25 PM

Originally posted by klutch
Hey... we get along lol. Your catholic. I am atheist. You have never tried to "plant the seed" in me. (Don't try now). lol
We have our own little debates but all in good fun. Though we don't force anything upon each other.

yup, and i like to keep things that way with people.

250r(quadman19)

04-01-2008, 06:29 PM

hey Hondamaster5505 i found the video you were talking about. here's a link its called 23 minutes in hell (http://www.movieforumz.com/showthread.php?t=33230&highlight=buddha)

reptikes

04-01-2008, 06:35 PM

Originally posted by z400rider08
ahh get off your high and mighty horse there buddy you know what i mean im just going by past references from a couple years ago. if i were going to do a report on it yeah i would have double checked to make sure i was right, but yes your correct it is amino acid and then protien came after.

I know what you meant, i just thought you were getting a little angry and figured i'd push your buttons a little bit. My horse isn't high or mighty, just a 450r that needs a bearing carrier.

450rJam

04-01-2008, 06:37 PM

I have a questions for the bible guru's

if a child is born and grows to the ripe age of say..........
5 years old and is not introduced to god or the church and dies.
does he get to go to heaven ?
even though he didnt believe ?
does he get a free ticket due to age ?

what if he is 15 ? 20 ?

what if he is only 1 year old and cant talk yet
but is in a family of believers ?
does their belief get him in ?

I was brought up to believe, and forced to go to church and
sunday school when young.
I have given my kids the choice, are they going to hell because
of what they choose ?

my opinion is that its all based on the zodiac, many religions before christianity, with alot of very similar points
dont believe me, do some research

remember the gold cow idol ?
it was the age of taurus, the main worship symbol of egypt
(B.C.)

04-01-2008, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by reptikes
I know what you meant, i just thought you were getting a little angry and figured i'd push your buttons a little bit. My horse isn't high or mighty, just a 450r that needs a bearing carrier.

hahaha pretty funny

but naw its aight im not angry just getting really involved.

450jam im not sure where in the bible but it says that children go to heaven up untill a certain point. not super clear i forgot but yeah theyve got that base covered haha.

reptikes

04-01-2008, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by 450rJam
I have a questions for the bible guru's

if a child is born and grows to the ripe age of say..........
5 years old and is not introduced to god or the church and dies.
does he get to go to heaven ?
even though he didnt believe ?
does he get a free ticket due to age ?

what if he is 15 ? 20 ?

what if he is only 1 year old and cant talk yet
but is in a family of believers ?
does their belief get him in ?

I was brought up to believe, and forced to go to church and
sunday school when young.
I have given my kids the choice, are they going to hell because
of what they choose ?

my opinion is that its all based on the zodiac, many religions before christianity, with alot of very similar points
dont believe me, do some research

remember the gold cow idol ?
it was the age of taurus, the main worship symbol of egypt
(B.C.)

Awesome piont, It's when your God conscience and still refuse to believe that you are held accountable. Children are not God conscience, even at 5 years old or what not. I have a 9, 6, and 2 1/2 year old. My nine year old isn't aware enough to be held accountable.

_42

04-01-2008, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by reptikes
Awesome piont, It's when your God conscience and still refuse to believe that you are held accountable. Children are not God conscience, even at 5 years old or what not. I have a 9, 6, and 2 1/2 year old. My nine year old isn't aware enough to be held accountable.
Is this actually in the bible? Just a question, not trying to piss anyone off.

450rJam

04-01-2008, 07:04 PM

just too many gray area's

maybe its just me but even when my parents said
"because I said so"

I couldnt just accept it with out a shred of doubt

the big $$ churches dont help any (some are just a business)

then you have all the ones who rape and pillage the believers

heavy subject that will go on long after we are gone

gone to where ever lol

klutch

04-01-2008, 07:13 PM

I agree with every word 450rJam has been saying.

tgreenz400

04-01-2008, 07:16 PM

Seriously someone enlighten me, what's the scientific explanation to "The Boat" in the mountains?

04-01-2008, 07:24 PM

Originally posted by tgreenz400
Seriously someone enlighten me, what's the scientific explanation to "The Boat" in the mountains?

any physical proof that boats there? only pics from a plane and it doesnt even hardly look like a boat. i mean you never know how that boat got there. how do random cars pop up in the middle of the wilderness.

heres a pretty big point. adam and eve are the center of todays civilization, they bred and and layed the ground work for todays population of people correct? well tell me this isnt incest a serious sin? well 6 billion people coming from 2 people. thats a whole lot on incest.

450rJam

04-01-2008, 07:34 PM

I agree there is not a simple explaination for everything

but 40 days/40 nights and flooding the whole world to float a boat to the top of a mountain ?

the remains to my knowledge where just traces, heck I would believe that a handful of mountain men where building a big sled
over bible explaination (but its just me)

my favorite parts of the bible are the stories, but come on..........
jona and the whale ?

many unexplained things in this world

how many scientists have tried to figure out stone hinge ?

reptikes

04-01-2008, 07:39 PM

Originally posted by 450rJam
just too many gray area's

maybe its just me but even when my parents said
"because I said so"

I couldnt just accept it with out a shred of doubt

the big $$ churches dont help any (some are just a business)

then you have all the ones who rape and pillage the believers

heavy subject that will go on long after we are gone

gone to where ever lol

I'm going to leave you in on a little secret, so shhhhhh. They are going to have to pay for that when they stand to be judged on THE DAY. And there is always the possibility that they can be charged in a criminal proceding for some type of fraud or what not. Your confusing God and People who are tring to make money off of other peoples beliefs. Hard to confuse the two, but your doing a good job at it.

reptikes

04-01-2008, 07:41 PM

[i]

how many scientists have tried to figure out stone hinge ? [/B]

Stone Hinge? Is that a knew hinge their making for wooden doors.

04-01-2008, 07:47 PM

Originally posted by 450rJam
I agree there is not a simple explaination for everything

but 40 days/40 nights and flooding the whole world to float a boat to the top of a mountain ?

the remains to my knowledge where just traces, heck I would believe that a handful of mountain men where building a big sled
over bible explaination (but its just me)

my favorite parts of the bible are the stories, but come on..........
jona and the whale ?

many unexplained things in this world

how many scientists have tried to figure out stone hinge ?

yes some things I believe were not real but made to give examples and a lesson. Yes most of is real or at least thats what I believe but I also think that some were just ment to like I said give a lesson

450rJam

04-01-2008, 07:59 PM

sorry, spelling is my weakest attribute
you have no idea how many words I have to look up
(but my glass is half full, I have other strengths)

stonehenge is the correct spelling

250xridamatt

04-01-2008, 09:26 PM

Originally posted by _42
Is this actually in the bible? Just a question, not trying to piss anyone off.

It is in there somewhere. I'm just amazed by some of the assumptions made about Christianity in this thread. Not all of them are hypocrites. I've been going to a Christian school for 12 years, and am going to a Christian university next year. I can attempt to answer any questions about it that people have.

hawood

04-01-2008, 10:42 PM

Just to clarify, I was'nt saying that we came from monkeys, I was being sarcastic. Just saying that this is what they teach in school, and when they tell us that we came from apes, lightning bolts, or whatever else that they can come up with, it is untruthful, and yes, they are wrong. Also, you will never be troule for NOT believing in God, (well, maybe some day) but there have been many cases where kids have been expelled, people fired from their jobs, etc. because they DO believe in God, and that is absolute b.s.

04-01-2008, 11:06 PM

As for that guy that was dead for 30 mins and was in hell and then got brought back to life can’t be true. After being dead for only 8 mins if you come back to life you’re mentally retarded.

And what about blacks? Their said to have come from the devil.

People believe in many different gods. Some even think god is a chick. How can they all exist?

But I find this here interesting

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/A6h2dZ51iy8&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/A6h2dZ51iy8&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

And us evolving from chimps actually makes actual since. They even act like us and think allot like us. Their was study about them drinking alcohol. They prefer different types from one another while others choose not to drink.

There is lots of proof behind how the world was made and where life came from and where humans came from. There is no proof that god did it all. And its said or at least people say, when some one dies they say his number was up which means god chose for you to die. So if I was to shoot some one in the head his number must have been up which means god must have made me do it.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd127/blue450yo/me/stuff/jnkjkkjkj.jpg

Anvil

04-01-2008, 11:37 PM

Originally posted by 450rJam
I agree there is not a simple explaination for everything

but 40 days/40 nights and flooding the whole world to float a boat to the top of a mountain ?

the remains to my knowledge where just traces, heck I would believe that a handful of mountain men where building a big sled
over bible explaination (but its just me)

my favorite parts of the bible are the stories, but come on..........
jona and the whale ?

many unexplained things in this world

how many scientists have tried to figure out stone hinge ?

I always wondered how they got those kangaroos, from australia, the moa from newzealand, the komada dragon from indonesia etc on that there ark.

MXQUAD294

04-01-2008, 11:39 PM

Originally posted by Hondamaster5505
.
I DONT BELIEVE IT! The catholic church over the years twisted things so many times its not even funny.

Could you please provide examples of what the Catholic Church has 'twisted'?

Originally posted by z400rider08:
"we 100% no getting around it came from monkeys. watch BET. theres your proof."
What?????

My take on evolution is this: Where are the partial evolved creatures? Evolution is by definition (although there are many depending on who enhances it to fit there needs....as it did here ;) ) change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species.
How many of us have every needed a 3rd arm to work on your bike, open the door while your other 2 arms are full, etc? There isn't a large population of 3rd armed people running around. Evolution is a theory to some just like God is. Some people just have to see it to beleive it. Science has 'de-bunked' a lot of things from the bible, but there is also a large amount of things scientists have not been able to outright prove/dis-prove so theories are put in place while the try to prove their theory.
Don't beleive in God or a higher being if you don't want to or believe if you want to. Its your choice, we have free will to do what we want whether it be go to church or go murder someone. Not everyone is 'wired' the same this is what makes everyone unique....it also causes war but thats another story!!!
Treat others how you want to be treated and the world could be a better place.
To end my rant, does any one here really know if there is life after death? If so....how do you know? Have you been there before? :D

Anvil

04-02-2008, 12:11 AM

Originally posted by MXQUAD294
Could you please provide examples of what the Catholic Church has 'twisted'?

Originally posted by z400rider08:
"we 100% no getting around it came from monkeys. watch BET. theres your proof."
What?????

My take on evolution is this: Where are the partial evolved creatures? Evolution is by definition (although there are many depending on who enhances it to fit there needs....as it did here ;) ) change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species.
How many of us have every needed a 3rd arm to work on your bike, open the door while your other 2 arms are full, etc? There isn't a large population of 3rd armed people running around. Evolution is a theory to some just like God is. Some people just have to see it to beleive it. Science has 'de-bunked' a lot of things from the bible, but there is also a large amount of things scientists have not been able to outright prove/dis-prove so theories are put in place while the try to prove their theory.
Don't beleive in God or a higher being if you don't want to or believe if you want to. Its your choice, we have free will to do what we want whether it be go to church or go murder someone. Not everyone is 'wired' the same this is what makes everyone unique....it also causes war but thats another story!!!
Treat others how you want to be treated and the world could be a better place.
To end my rant, does any one here really know if there is life after death? If so....how do you know? Have you been there before? :D

Just to play the devils advocate.

The catholic church charged people with heressy and executed them for saying the earth was round.

Maybe we are still evolving, people have been born with more and different limbs. If we all originated from adam and eve, then how is it that we have black people, and people with big lung capacites for living at high altitudes, surely that is evolution at its purest form?

04-02-2008, 12:25 AM

Originally posted by Anvil
Just to play the devils advocate.

The catholic church charged people with heressy and executed them for saying the earth was round.

Maybe we are still evolving, people have been born with more and different limbs. If we all originated from adam and eve, then how is it that we have black people, and people with big lung capacites for living at high altitudes, surely that is evolution at its purest form?

What I think is black people are the farthest behind in evolution. Or if black people really did come from the deval that would explaine why most them act the way they do. And i remember hearing that god and deval where brothers.

Anvil

04-02-2008, 03:09 AM

Originally posted by bajaracer21
What I think is black people are the farthest behind in evolution. Or if black people really did come from the deval that would explaine why most them act the way they do. And i remember hearing that god and deval where brothers.

And you think they havn't evolved much:rolleyes:

AtvMxRider

04-02-2008, 04:37 AM

450rJam

04-02-2008, 04:50 AM

there are holes in the evolution theory

they find cave men and dinosaurs but cant find the missing link ?

but there are also holes in the belief one god invented it all

I will die and my kids and grand kids will remember me with fond stories, if I live long enough my great grand kids will know me, but prob. end up being too young to carry on the stories.
pictures/videos will be passed on a couple more generations

then I will be gone, I accept this (its a best case scenario)
no guaranty I will live to be 80-90yrs old

how many of you remember your great great grandparents?

live a good life and have fun, treat others kind and enjoy the time on the planet, believe what ever you need to to make you happy

04-02-2008, 07:26 AM

Originally posted by reptikes

Hey speedyquad, do you believe there was ever a real Tyrannosaurus Rex walking the earth? I know you've never seen one! And don't say you've seen Fossils because when you go to a Museum all you see is a mold of what they tell you was a DINOSAURS BONES.

i know that what you see in a museum is a casting of dinosaur bones, but i have seen and held real dinosaur bones. i was a secondary science education major in college. guess you didn't know that now did ya...

here is the rub boys...i don't care what people believe or don't believe, just don't try to plant the seed in me. i wasn't even going to look at this topic because i knew what it would be...the religious zealots telling me how i am going to go to hell for not believing. that would, be great for them if i believed in heaven and hell. i don't. so therefore i cannot be afraid of a perceived outcome if the negative does not exist. but i digress, i only read and posted because i was bored and needed some entertainment. like i said, i might be playing the devils advocate here...

and if you guys talking of evolution want to know, humans are more closely related to pigs than chimps...

but to say that evolution is not real, because there is no proof...well, that is just being uninformed. there is proof all over. nearly every species known to man has fossil evidence, with enough similar genetic markers to say, without a doubt, that the species were related.

reptikes

04-02-2008, 08:24 AM

Originally posted by speedyquad

but to say that evolution is not real, because there is no proof...well, that is just being uninformed. there is proof all over. nearly every species known to man has fossil evidence, with enough similar genetic markers to say, without a doubt, that the species were related.

You siad it ( RELATED ), not that we came from them! Evolution tries to explain how we came from these creatures not how we are related.

04-02-2008, 08:49 AM

so you actually think that we came from a rib? that all of a sudden, poof, there we were...the missing link will one day be found...

i want some of what you are using...i mean seriously, how can you accept that the human race just appeared from nothing and not evolved form something...that is the one thing i could never understand, but have kept a very open mind to. why has this happened only once? why doesn't it happen every day? why do you feel this is the way it happened? what proof is there? other than what a possible work of fiction says...

and by related, it would be similar to you being related to your father...there are traits passed down from your parent to you. i am sure you see them...hair color, body type, similar noses. you evolved from your parents, who evolved from their parents. and so on and so on...trace your lineage back 100 years...there will be genetic markers that are similar enough to say that your are related, but different enough to say that there are two different people.

04-02-2008, 09:01 AM

i wil tell you why the human race does not see a lot of evolution in our recent and current history. we have eliminated almost all of the natural selection. relatively speaking we have few diseases that actually pose a threat to the population. we have learned to nurture all of our young, without letting the frail and week fend for themselves. and the big one, we have learned to adapt our environment to us, instead of us adapting to the environment..

when a species adapts to an environment, it is essentially a genetic mutation that aides that individual to thrive more than the next. that mutation is then passed down to the next generation and so on until that mutation is now the norm. since there is on survival benefit to having a 3rd arm, that is why you will never see a race of humans with 3 arms...

reptikes

04-02-2008, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by speedyquad
so you actually think that we came from a rib?

and by related, it would be similar to you being related to your father...there are traits passed down from your parent to you. i am sure you see them...hair color, body type, similar noses. you evolved from your parents, who evolved from their parents. and so on and so on...trace your lineage back 100 years...there will be genetic markers that are similar enough to say that your are related, but different enough to say that there are two different people.

Eve came from a rib, not adam. Atleast know what your talking about.
And i'll have to say Bull **** on the rest. You take my hair color, body type, eyes, nose, and trace me back in YOUR FAMILY TREE and there are going to be enough similarity's to say we are related yet different. We are not related! I know a good bit about genetics, so don't go there.

04-02-2008, 12:46 PM

i didn't say who came from the rib...one of the original 2, the "parents" if you will, came from the rib...and as far as that goes, i knew it was eve and i see no difference as to whether it was adam or eve that had come from the rib...it is still very far fetched and something that would come from a work of fiction. but, we are related in your scenario as adam and eve are both of our "great great x 1000" ancestors.

but since you know all about genetics...then you should know enough to make connection between the succession of species, where one ends and the next begins...

i have simply given you a seed here, yet you seem offended? i have given you factual information, or at least information that you can go out and prove without a doubt. information that you can see irrefutable and tangible proof that what i say is fact. this is unlike what has been provided to me.

PunkA$$

04-02-2008, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by speedyquad

i have simply given you a seed here, yet you seem offended?

Well played good sir, well played indeed.

250r(quadman19)

04-02-2008, 01:07 PM

whoever came up with the idea that black people came from the devil needs to be tarred and feathered. that was someone trying to backup their racists ideals and makes me sick to my stomach. more reasons why we have so much division in our world

wilkin250r

04-02-2008, 02:20 PM

What gets me is the "proof" that people offer.

Every non-beleiver in this thread has, at some point, heard somebody else testify to their own personal miracles. "God saved me in that car wreck, God is the best thing that has happened in my life, I died for 30 minutes and saw hell and when I came back to life I became religious..." And every one of those tesitmonies, you have dismissed as nonsense.

Yet when somebody has told you "I have found the building blocks to everything. They're called molecules, with a nucleus and electrons spinning around, ect ect" you believe it at face value, exactly as it was told to you.

I'm willing to bet my paycheck that none of you have actually SEEN a molecule with your own eyes, yet you choose to believe it. The theory of molecules will tell you that all matter is 90% open space, but this is contrary to the evidence in front of you. Smack your desk or table in front of you, it appears solid, certainly not empty space. So even in the face of counter-evidence, you still believe in those molecules.

So tell me, why? What is the difference?

I'm not trying to convince anybody that they should believe in God. I'm simply pointing out your hypocrisy, and the flaws in your own logic. You, too, have your own "faith", belief without proof.

04-02-2008, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by wilkin250r
What gets me is the "proof" that people offer.

Every non-beleiver in this thread has, at some point, heard somebody else testify to their own personal miracles. "God saved me in that car wreck, God is the best thing that has happened in my life, I died for 30 minutes and saw hell and when I came back to life I became religious..." And every one of those tesitmonies, you have dismissed as nonsense.

Yet when somebody has told you "I have found the building blocks to everything. They're called molecules, with a nucleus and electrons spinning around, ect ect" you believe it at face value, exactly as it was told to you.

I'm willing to bet my paycheck that none of you have actually SEEN a molecule with your own eyes, yet you choose to believe it. The theory of molecules will tell you that all matter is 90% open space, but this is contrary to the evidence in front of you. Smack your desk or table in front of you, it appears solid, certainly not empty space. So even in the face of counter-evidence, you still believe in those molecules.

So tell me, why? What is the difference?

I'm not trying to convince anybody that they should believe in God. I'm simply pointing out your hypocrisy, and the flaws in your own logic. You, too, have your own "faith", belief without proof.

umm well theres actual video pictures and the ability if you to really get down to it to SEE what there talking about, everything your saying about what other people say is just there word no physical proof at all. I swear i saw sasquatch one time but the chances i actualy saw sass are pretty slim. theres a REASONABLE explanation for everything in the bible. but see you have to think they could not have been very educated back then, so whats to say everything in the bible was just a mis understanding by people that didnt know any better at the time?

reptikes

04-02-2008, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by wilkin250r
What gets me is the "proof" that people offer.

Every non-beleiver in this thread has, at some point, heard somebody else testify to their own personal miracles. "God saved me in that car wreck, God is the best thing that has happened in my life, I died for 30 minutes and saw hell and when I came back to life I became religious..." And every one of those tesitmonies, you have dismissed as nonsense.

Yet when somebody has told you "I have found the building blocks to everything. They're called molecules, with a nucleus and electrons spinning around, ect ect" you believe it at face value, exactly as it was told to you.

I'm willing to bet my paycheck that none of you have actually SEEN a molecule with your own eyes, yet you choose to believe it. The theory of molecules will tell you that all matter is 90% open space, but this is contrary to the evidence in front of you. Smack your desk or table in front of you, it appears solid, certainly not empty space. So even in the face of counter-evidence, you still believe in those molecules.

So tell me, why? What is the difference?

I'm not trying to convince anybody that they should believe in God. I'm simply pointing out your hypocrisy, and the flaws in your own logic. You, too, have your own "faith", belief without proof.

Now this post here, is the most intelligent thing i've read in this whole thread.

And hey z400rider08, post up some videos or pictures that you say will show what your talking about.

wilkin250r

04-02-2008, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by z400rider08
umm well theres actual video pictures and the ability if you to really get down to it to SEE what there talking about,

I'm not saying the evidence isn't there, it obviously is. If anybody wanted to do the legwork, anybody can verify the existence of molecules for themselves.

What I'm saying is, people don't do it. They simply believe somebody else's word for it. They never see the proof for themselves, yet they believe it anyways. It's called faith. They accept somebody else's proof, and believe without actually seeing that proof for themselves.

The other one that doesn't actually have proof is your version of the origins of life: you can take a uncontamated flask seal it with water and various gasses and admit electric shock to it, and in a mere matter of weeks there is a build up of protien

In reality, they aren't proteins, but rather amino acids, and a very small percentage of them. Yes, amino acids are the building blocks, but those that are produced aren't the correct type, they will not assemble into actual protiens. The translation from amino to functional DNA is much more complex.

AtvMxRider

04-02-2008, 03:14 PM

:ermm:

wilkin250r

04-02-2008, 03:24 PM

Thought you might get a kick out of this one, Jerry...

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

AtvMxRider

04-02-2008, 03:25 PM

lmao:devil:

Hondamaster5505

04-02-2008, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by wilkin250r
I'm not saying the evidence isn't there, it obviously is. If anybody wanted to do the legwork, anybody can verify the existence of molecules for themselves.

What I'm saying is, people don't do it. They simply believe somebody else's word for it. They never see the proof for themselves, yet they believe it anyways. It's called faith. They accept somebody else's proof, and believe without actually seeing that proof for themselves.

The other one that doesn't actually have proof is your version of the origins of life: you can take a uncontamated flask seal it with water and various gasses and admit electric shock to it, and in a mere matter of weeks there is a build up of protien

In reality, they aren't proteins, but rather amino acids, and a very small percentage of them. Yes, amino acids are the building blocks, but those that are produced aren't the correct type, they will not assemble into actual protiens. The translation from amino to functional DNA is much more complex.

Wow, i agree with reptikes.

You have some of the most educated sensible post's on here.

Which 450?

04-02-2008, 03:48 PM

Im an extremely skeptical person. Plus I have never seen true evidence of God existing. Plus all the religious freeks I know are horribly hypocrites. I dont call myself an athiest, I call myself "n/a" I believe in evolution, darwin, there is physical evidence of evolution.

Which 450?

04-02-2008, 03:52 PM

Then if you want to go back to the creation of humans and god created us... then who created god? the who created that? who created that? It keeps on going....

04-02-2008, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by Hondamaster5505
Wow, i agree with reptikes.

You have some of the most educated sensible post's on here.

you only say that because you think he is helping your side, in actuality, he is being neutral. i agree with him, but playing the devil's advocate, i have to take the extreme side. my point comes from the fact that proof is out there that evolution has, is, and will continue to take place. there is no proof that moses parted the red sea, a woman being formed from a rib instantly...how can any with any kind of intelligence actually believe that happened...i don't think the top fiction writers could even come up with that

Hondamaster5505

04-02-2008, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by speedyquad
you only say that because you think he is helping your side, in actuality, he is being neutral. i agree with him, but playing the devil's advocate, i have to take the extreme side. my point comes from the fact that proof is out there that evolution has, is, and will continue to take place. there is no proof that moses parted the red sea, a woman being formed from a rib instantly...how can any with any kind of intelligence actually believe that happened...i don't think the top fiction writers could even come up with that

As far as I know, I don't believe your a mind reader, so how to you know what I think?

That isn't what I thought at all. I know he was making a neutral response. I didn't think he was helping our side like that. I also knew it was a neutral comment, because as a moderator, he's not supposed to argue with people on the forums.

Hondamaster5505

04-02-2008, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by Which 450?
Then if you want to go back to the creation of humans and god created us... then who created god? the who created that? who created that? It keeps on going....

You have to think things through a little here...

Did you ever stop to think that maybe he's been around forever?

Think it through. The universe, where did it come from? It goes on forever and ever, with no beginning or end. No outside limits. If there were, whats on the outside of that, that created that? How come the universe, space, all of that has been around forever. No beginning, no end. Who's to say that God has no beginning, no end. Maybe hes a superior being who's been around forever?

Stop to think about what you typed. Take what I said into consideration. You really have to look at these kind of things and say "how?"

wilkin250r

04-02-2008, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by speedyquad
there is no proof that moses parted the red sea,

I don't profess to have the answer to everything, but it's possible the Red Sea was actually a mis-translation.

(For those that don't know, The story of the Red Sea was Moses escaping from Egypt with the Jewish people, with the Egyptian Army chasing them. When they came to the Red Sea, Moses caused the waters to part and allow them to cross, but close again on the Egyptian army, thus providing for their escape)

Not too far from the supposed location of the parting of the Red Sea was a swampland called the Sea of Reeds. It's entirely possible that a relatively small group of people could find safe crossing, whereas a large group with many on horseback (such as an army) would not be able to cross.

It's not quite as miraculous and dramatic a story, but such a story would be plausible, and the end result is the same, escape from the Egyptian Army. And I bet if you were a poor slave with an entire army chasing you, in honest fear of your life, any escape is going to seem pretty dang miraculous.

Maybe you're right, maybe it's all a hoax. Or maybe it was a true story, just embellished a little.

04-02-2008, 04:24 PM

my point exactly, we don't know, yet all of these people say, to use a poor phase, "it is the bible". i don't condemn anyone for believing what they want. i just don't like people trying to make me believe. you may say you are only planting a seed that i can do with as i please, but i don't even want you to infringe on my beliefs that much. i believe what i believe and people should leave it at that.

hondamaster, how do you know that i am not a mind reader? maybe i was able to read you mind and take way some things that you did not even know. if you can believe some of the things you have used to prove your point, then why is it such a far reach to believe that i have read your mind?

and you were offended my me telling you what you thought, how is that any different than you telling me what to believe or think about god? by you just planting that seed, you are in effect, telling me what i should think.

Hondamaster5505

04-02-2008, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by speedyquad
hondamaster, how do you know that i am not a mind reader? maybe i was able to read you mind and take way some things that you did not even know. if you can believe some of the things you have used to prove your point, then why is it such a far reach to believe that i have read your mind?

and you were offended my me telling you what you thought, how is that any different than you telling me what to believe or think about god? by you just planting that seed, you are in effect, telling me what i should think.

LOL, you honestly think this stuff through to hard.:rolleyes:

You can't be a mind reader. You don't believe in things like that, so why would you believe in reading minds?

Also, I wasn't affended at all about you telling me what you thought. You can believe what you want about me, but it takes a lot to affend me, which you obviously havent learned yet.

If anything, YOU are offended, which is why you can't help but come up with a comeback to what I said, like im hurting you.

By planting a seed, im not forcing you to do anything. To tell you the truth, i live life like a normal person. I don't go around saying "OMG, your an athiest, you don't believe, i must make you believe!"

I think everyone should just get along and not fight, and the world would improve by a billion times.

450rJam

04-02-2008, 04:37 PM

many different religions but they all have very similar points

1.worship one god
2.prophets convey gods message
3.god gave humans free will
4.god gave code of morals
5.humans created to do gods will
6.pray to communicate with god
7.have to have faith
8.high value on forgiveness
9.discourage anger/aggression
10.man created in likeness of god
11.honor parents
12.forbid fornication/bad behavior
13.forbid suicide
14.no same sex
15.rewards for fasting
16.judgment day
17.life after death
all seem to start around the sun/stars

go to youtube and search for
religions are astrology
and see what you think ?

tgreenz400

04-02-2008, 04:38 PM

People say "How was god created?"How was just everything in general created? You can say molecules or whatever...what created the molecules? Did proteins and Amino Acids poof here? How does space just exist? Give me the 100% right answer to that and i'll believe you. Until then...i'm going to continue believing in my god. Their's a problem with the whole theory of evolution, you can say that something is made of a certain something else, but i just don't get how the SIMPLIST form of matter was created if everything has to evolve from something.

tgreenz400

04-02-2008, 04:41 PM

Guess that's the mystery of life. Can't have an answer for everything....

04-02-2008, 04:48 PM

me offended...not hardly...you were offended by my "reading of your mind". how do i know this, because of the same reason you gave for me being offended.

reason tells me to think things through, but i also accept that things can be unexplained.

i enjoy a good debate...i like to see what people can come up with. this is one debate that i usually stay out of because ii always ends up with some one trying to save me. i hate that. that angers me to no end. but this debate has stayed away from that...which is why i keep posting. no one has tried to sway me, nor have i tried to sway anyone. i will say that i am open to your side., but no one is open to my side. why is that?

i have alluded to my true beliefs, which are far from what i have been conveying. like i have said, i am playing the role of devils advocate here. i believe some of what i have said, some i do not.

what it boils down to is that your beliefs are based on educated guesses, both yours and that of other people.

madskrillz2

04-02-2008, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by tgreenz400
People say "How was god created?"How was just everything in general created? You can say molecules or whatever...what created the molecules? Did proteins and Amino Acids poof here? How does space just exist? Give me the 100% right answer to that and i'll believe you. Until then...i'm going to continue believing in my god. Their's a problem with the whole theory of evolution, you can say that something is made of a certain something else, but i just don't get how the SIMPLIST form of matter was created if everything has to evolve from something.

That's exactly how I see it. And you know it's always better to be safe than sorry.

04-02-2008, 10:25 PM

bwamos

04-03-2008, 07:20 AM

Originally posted by 450rJam
many different religions but they all have very similar points

1.worship one god

There are many polytheistic religions. What about Hinduism? It beleives everyone is their own god. Druidism, Paganism, Hinduism, Shinto, Cosmotheism, etc...

honda350r

04-03-2008, 12:45 PM

450rJam

04-03-2008, 03:42 PM

which did he make first .................................................. ......

the chicken or the egg ?

tgreenz400

04-03-2008, 03:59 PM

Chicken fo sho.:chinese:

SET THE STAGE

04-03-2008, 09:09 PM

funny that i came across this thread. i was putting 666 on my number plates today as a joke and my mom saw me doing it and just gave me the death stare. lolz

she knows i don't believe in god but just tries her hardest to not even acknowledge it.

science>

NacsMXer

04-03-2008, 10:00 PM

I'm a biomedical science major in school right now and over the years you get to know the inner workings of the human body in excruciating detail. With how efficient and accurate these mechanisms are, I find it extremely hard to believe that everything works together so closely and so perfectly by pure chance alone. Natural selection? survival of the fittest?...maybe in qualitative differences among the evolution/fine tweaking of certain species over time. But the actual inner workings.....the biochemical reactions, the enzymes, the physiology, etc really leads me to believe intelligent design was the only way that all this works together so perfectly. Something had to design/create all these internal workings to sustain life.

For instance, right now i'm studying renal physiology (how your kidneys function). Our bodies make a waste product called Para-aminohippurate (PAH) that needs to be secreted into the kidney tubule lumen and subsequently excreted in the urine.

In the cells of the proximal convoluted tubule of the nephron (nephrons are the functional "filtering cells" of the kidney), sodium ions are reabsorbed into the blood in exchange for more potassium ions inside the cell (primary active transport). This constant pumping creates a high concentration of sodium ions in the blood, and a low concentration of sodium ions inside the proximal tubule cells.

The high concentration of sodium ions in the blood allows sodium ions to be transported DOWN the concentration gradient BACK into the proximal tubule cell while simultaneously transporting alpha-ketoglutarate UP its concentration gradient into the proximal tubule cell (secondary active transport).

Now that we have a high concentration of alpha-ketoglutarate inside the proximal tubule cell, it is transported BACK out of the cell DOWN its concentration gradient while simultaneously transporting good-old PAH UP its concentration gradient into the cell (tertiary active transport).

Now that PAH concentration is high inside the cell, it can diffuse out of the cell via facilitated diffusion, into the kidney tubule, and out into the urine.

Now someone tell me, that all this back and forth movement of ion travel, into the cell out of the cell etc, moving things with and against the natural forces of concentration, all to achieve the single end task of excreting PAH ...happened by chance? through processes of survival of the fittest? I have a hard time believing that.

Just some food for thought... :o

250xridamatt

04-03-2008, 10:00 PM

Originally posted by wilkin250r
I don't profess to have the answer to everything, but it's possible the Red Sea was actually a mis-translation.

(For those that don't know, The story of the Red Sea was Moses escaping from Egypt with the Jewish people, with the Egyptian Army chasing them. When they came to the Red Sea, Moses caused the waters to part and allow them to cross, but close again on the Egyptian army, thus providing for their escape)

Not too far from the supposed location of the parting of the Red Sea was a swampland called the Sea of Reeds. It's entirely possible that a relatively small group of people could find safe crossing, whereas a large group with many on horseback (such as an army) would not be able to cross.

It's not quite as miraculous and dramatic a story, but such a story would be plausible, and the end result is the same, escape from the Egyptian Army. And I bet if you were a poor slave with an entire army chasing you, in honest fear of your life, any escape is going to seem pretty dang miraculous.

Maybe you're right, maybe it's all a hoax. Or maybe it was a true story, just embellished a little.

It's very hard for me to believe that God is real, and that the Bible was embellished at the same time. The Scribes of the time took the text and copied it. If they made one single mistake, one wrong stroke of the pen, they would burn all of the work they had just done. Many many precautions were taken to make sure that things were written down exactly as they happened.

Many people try to argue that the 4 gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) all being different completely destroys their credibility. That one person made something up, or perhaps changed up the story a little bit. They were actually written for 4 different groups of people and with 4 different purposes.

I believe that God is all powerful. I am comletely able to accept that he parted the red sea. Of course if any human claimed that he could, I would never believe them in a million years. But I think God is more than that.

Just my .02

klutch

04-03-2008, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by SET THE STAGE
funny that i came across this thread. i was putting 666 on my number plates today as a joke and my mom saw me doing it and just gave me the death stare. lolz

she knows i don't believe in god but just tries her hardest to not even acknowledge it.

science>

Thats my number... lol. I thought it was cool because everyone always links me to "The Omen" because my name is Damian... i don't believe in it either. I love when people get pissed off over my number lol.

416exfreak

04-04-2008, 11:43 AM

ThePhantomRider

04-04-2008, 01:17 PM

Being a Christian it's not for me to judge anyone on what they do, or do not believe.

Now I hope that as many people as possible find God and understand exactly what Jesus did for them and how much they have to thank for his sacrifice, but I will never force my beliefs on another as I do not wish to have those that have a thorn in their side for religion not to attack me because I believe.

My biggest concern is that as with any religion, there are extreme factions that make the whole look bad, and the segmentation of the church only hampers what we try to do, Baptists, Methodists, Lutheran, etc...too much division.

It should be a soft sell, not some "You're gonna burn in hell!!!" scare tactics.

You basically can look at it like this, those who truly believe and are saved and walk with the lord will walk the streets of gold.

Those that are never exposed to the lord and live without ever hearing his word, like a new child will be protected from damnation as innocents.

Those that are exposed to the lord, and choose to ignore it will, in the end not be headed to heaven.

That is what I believe, and it is up to me to lead those that I love to the Lord, not by salesmanship, but leading a life that appeals to them and causes them to seek his word on their own accord.

God bless each and everyone posting here, especially the non believers.

TPR

chris46250r

04-04-2008, 01:31 PM

I agree with Phantom. I also believe in God but not because someone told me I had to or should. I choose to believe in Him. Same for the non believers, I'm not going to tell them they should believe nor hate them because they dont. Its a choice not a law to believe in what you want too.

hawood

04-10-2008, 08:41 PM

I know this thread is like a week old, but I just came across this and thought that it fit this topic preddy well.

http://www.expelledthemovie.com/playground.php

I've never really liked Ben Stein but this looks like a good movie.

redsurdaddy

04-10-2008, 08:57 PM

I agree with the Phantom too. Thats how I see it. I don't try to push anything on anyone, if Christianity isn't something that they want to talk about then thats cool, we can talk about other stuff, but if they want to talk about God then I'm there for them.

Phugg

04-11-2008, 07:12 AM

My thoughts in general are my own and not forced upon any. I believe in a "god" whatever it is. It could be another life form from another planet. It has to be in my eyes. Humans in general are very stupid creatures without guidance of "some form". That guidance can from any source. Be it a church , a religion , a lifestyle , whatever.
My main complaint is religion itself. In ALL forms. Almost every religion has started wars on "their gods behalf". The establishments known as religion are nothing but business, plain and simple. I have browsed the bible from time to time and found things that stick true to moment. Look through any book and you can find things YOU like in them. Who is to say that the bible is not George Orwells 1984. Scientology in my opinion is based on these thinkings , I have not studied it , not will I. DO I think its wrong ? No , do I think its right , NO. Its just another "religion" that in their minds is the proper one. Jews feel that their religion is the proper one. Catholics say theirs is the proper one. Baptists feel theirs is proper. I sure as heck am not one to say which is right or wrong. Just in my eyes all CHURCHES (not religions) are a bunch of crap.
How can someone commit a crime against humanity , go to confession , and POOF after a few measly words , its ok now. Its not , you will be judged in life by your actions , by PEOPLE , not some "god".
This debate will always be there , whether we like it or not. Some feel it is their position to get others to beleive in their ways , some feel its ok to let others feel whatever they want. regardless the debate will go on for all of humanity. There is life on other planets thats that are way more advanced than we are, there has to be , or "gods plan" was a complete and utter friggin joke.

FriesenYFZ

04-11-2008, 08:47 AM

Well for all of you that think evolution is true than I think you are missing the point. There is no way a living cell could have physically manifested itslef into a thinking learning individual. The evolutionists say that the apes used what they learned to gather food like poking sticks in a hole climbing in trees, and now we someow put these things to use. How do humans know calculus now, did we somehow learn it back then. There is no gigger a lie than evolution for all you who believe it, there are too many unprovable things, and when evolutionists get questioned it's like they all of a sudden shut up. The chances of Evolution happening are around the same as if you were to throw a stick of dynamite into a printing press, and what fell on the ground in perfect order was the declaration of independance. EVOLUTION IS CRAP for all you who believe it!

ThePhantomRider

04-11-2008, 09:56 AM

Well the proof in the pudding in sin is that indeed, wars and conquests have been started and fought in the name of god, or whatever they believe, and that in itself, is a major sin.

Religious zealots, those on the fringes of a given religion or idealism, are looked upon worse than those who have no religious affiliation be it living in a part of the world where the word has not reached them and even those that claim to be atheists. If they do not understand the word, they receive a certain amount of latitude that hopefully one day, the word will reach them. Those who claim to "walk with the lord" or "do god's bidding" to justify their aggressive or warlike actions will be judged very harshly and by no means get a free pass to heaven. That's the misnomer in all this.

As for evolution, I think the only true, concrete evolution is that of the human intellect, and it's not a natural occurrence, but one brought forth by effort to expand the mind.

Science and it's attempts to put forth the theory of evolution is another test by which Christians can either bolster their beliefs backed up by scientific claims of evolution that are no more concrete than the sand on a beach, or it can push them away from the lord....that's how we are tested on a daily basis.

Again, these are my views, and I accept all those that differ in opinion. I studied physical and cultural anthropology by a very liberal professor, and what he explained only bolstered my beliefs.

You see, some scientists expect us to believe that we evolved from some type of primate, yet we see no similar progression in other life, only extinct animals....why is it that there are several varieties of ape/monkey/chimp, so physically different but of the same family, yet we see no study of where they evolved from? Show us their ancestors as they should have evolved as we supposedly did. I believe that those past "ancestors" may have been a similar human-esque being that died out as a matter of natural selection.

TPR

orca0294

04-12-2008, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by ThePhantomRider
Being a Christian it's not for me to judge anyone on what they do, or do not believe.

Now I hope that as many people as possible find God and understand exactly what Jesus did for them and how much they have to thank for his sacrifice, but I will never force my beliefs on another as I do not wish to have those that have a thorn in their side for religion not to attack me because I believe.

My biggest concern is that as with any religion, there are extreme factions that make the whole look bad, and the segmentation of the church only hampers what we try to do, Baptists, Methodists, Lutheran, etc...too much division.

It should be a soft sell, not some "You're gonna burn in hell!!!" scare tactics.

You basically can look at it like this, those who truly believe and are saved and walk with the lord will walk the streets of gold.

Those that are never exposed to the lord and live without ever hearing his word, like a new child will be protected from damnation as innocents.

Those that are exposed to the lord, and choose to ignore it will, in the end not be headed to heaven.

That is what I believe, and it is up to me to lead those that I love to the Lord, not by salesmanship, but leading a life that appeals to them and causes them to seek his word on their own accord.

God bless each and everyone posting here, especially the non believers.

TPR

I agree with this 100%. I have not read many other posts on this topic but believing and living your life for God will allow you to be happy rather than basing your life around your own thoughts where you are constantly seeking happiness. When you see a true christian you can see happiness and joy within them that allows them to teach others and spread the joy and the word.

Watch that and try to tell me you can't see the happiness within the people.
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hawood

04-12-2008, 09:37 PM

That chick in the blue and black is HOT

SET THE STAGE

04-13-2008, 01:17 AM

http://www.nitras.be/gibberish/raptorjesus.gif

04-13-2008, 06:03 AM

Originally posted by orca0294
I agree with this 100%. I have not read many other posts on this topic but believing and living your life for God will allow you to be happy rather than basing your life around your own thoughts where you are constantly seeking happiness. When you see a true christian you can see happiness and joy within them that allows them to teach others and spread the joy and the word.

so i cannot be happy because i am not a true christian? is that a requirement to be happy...i call bull to that...that attitude is one of the biggest reasons that i do not believe that any god still exists or has any power and that i refuse to embrace any religion...

how do you know that i am not happy?

AtvMxRider

04-13-2008, 09:11 AM

:ermm:

04-13-2008, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by AtvMxRider
:ermm:

it must be gods will keeping it alive...so i can be "saved"

i have seen the light...the error of my ways...my faith is strong...i feel the force within me...and my daughter...the force is strong in her...

orca0294

04-13-2008, 09:20 PM

Originally posted by speedyquad
so i cannot be happy because i am not a true christian? is that a requirement to be happy...i call bull to that...that attitude is one of the biggest reasons that i do not believe that any god still exists or has any power and that i refuse to embrace any religion...

how do you know that i am not happy?
I did not mean to put it in that manner I was meaning to say when you see a christian you will see their happiness.

wilkin250r

04-14-2008, 02:33 AM

Originally posted by speedyquad
that attitude is one of the biggest reasons that i do not believe that any god still exists or has any power and that i refuse to embrace any religion...

That is among the most absurd things I've ever heard.

Let's pretend for a second that I am God, and all things commonly known about God are true. You are saying that although I created the world, and that I created YOU and gave you life, you are not going to believe in me simply because of the attitude that some person gave you on the internet?

Yes, yes, I know that you've come across this attitude more than just here, more than just the internet. But the principle still applies, does it not? They are still people, subject to fallacy and mistakes. If I don't like cows, maybe I don't drink the milk, but I'm not going to deny the milk exists.

If you don't believe, that's fine. But don't pass the buck, don't blame it on other people or try to throw it back in their face. If you don't believe the evidence set before you, then you don't believe it, simple as that. In has NOTHING to do with the way the evidence is presented.

NacsMXer

04-14-2008, 06:58 AM

Originally posted by speedyquad
it must be gods will keeping it alive...so i can be "saved"

i have seen the light...the error of my ways...my faith is strong...i feel the force within me...and my daughter...the force is strong in her...

I think you're just being a bit ignorant at this point. I agree with what Wilkin is saying....

If you choose not to believe, do I as a Christian say that you are wrong? Do I mock you for being a non-believer? No.

Yet YOU mock those that would otherwise be accepting of your "opinion" at the same time.

If you want/choose to believe something for whatever reason, fine. But show some respect for other people's beliefs as well.

KTM265

04-14-2008, 08:46 AM

Faith in God is a personal issue... It's something as an individual you accept or reject. Personally I do believe in God, I spend some time in prayer every day...even if it's only for a couple of minutes.

I love the posts about proof...Science has a lot of things it can't prove. Sure we talk about millions of years but that is our time. God created the world in 7 days but His timeline is not ours.

A lot of people are saying Christians are foolish for believing in God...etc...but have you ever taken some time and read the Bible? Granted it's not easy reading but go to the book of Romans and just read that section...It's not a huge book, pretty simple to follow along. It will give you a good general overview of the Christian faith so even though you don't believe in God, you may have a better understanding why Christians believe in what we do.

Next thing is "what if". If there is a God, what are you going to do on your day of judgement? What will you say? If there isn't then I with my Christian beliefs have nothing to worry about but if there is a God, what are you going to do? I don't know about the rest of you but hell does not sound like a very good place to spend eternity.

04-14-2008, 02:35 PM

ignorant? not hardly...mocking? nope...i was responding to the fact that i was being told that i cannot be happy because i am not a christian...what gives someone the ability to say that i am not happy? so telling me that i have a false happiness was that not mocking me?

wilkin...why is it so hard to believe that i am turned off by that attitude alone?

your milk cow theory does not hold since i have milk in my fridge right now and i know it exists, as does the cow.

now take this scenario...during the night, i am contacted, mentally by a being calling himself putta. every night putta comes to me telling me how to live my life. i start talking about putta to my family and they start to believe that putta is real and they also follow his word. instead of praying, putta wants me to shower an extra time each day. i then form the church of puttanism. how do you christians feel about putta?

04-14-2008, 02:39 PM

i have read the bible from cover to cover with an open mind. it felt like reading a book of fiction to me. i am sorry that that may offend some of you. my thinking on the bible is that if all were destroyed except for the star wars movies, they would be considered the next bible...or if lord of the rings was the only thing to survive whatever...it would be the bible. put in any fiction title, and it could become "the bible"

ThePhantomRider

04-14-2008, 03:56 PM

Look, you are absolutely in your right to question anything, including the existence of Jesus, God or the validity of the Bible. God planned it that way in hopes that people would not be pressured or forced to believe in a state of living a certain way in order to go to a place called Heaven, or just to avoid the place called Hell....

This is God's "experiment" so to speak. To see if we are able, as a society with free will at our disposal to live by 10 Commandments and follow the lead of his son, in an attempt to create a society as the creator planned.

Sure he could have made us lemmings...that works, just follow them off a cliff. Think about this for a minute, if you look at all of God's creatures, they all pretty much follow a formula, though variations do occur and they typically do not last very long in the wild.

Humanity on the other hand, there are limitless variations out there and they have made the species both stronger and weaker at the same time. It is the ultimate test for one to not take that step down sin and deny the opportunity...notice the word, opportunity for salvation....as a Christian, if someone is interested in listening, I am willing to talk, if they do not want to know, I will not force them to listen.

I prefer to know that when my time comes, even by some remote chance my faith means nothing, at least I can live and die with the fact that if what I believe is true, not only will I have lived a good life, but will be able to live eternity in the most wonderful place ever dreamed of.

For me it's quite simple, salvation=living a good life and having confidence about my afterlife then spend eternity in heaven... Or don't believe, still could feel good about the life I have lead, could even be a great person, not sure about what happens when I die, possibly spend eternity in Hell or Purgatory....

One of my favorite sayings...Eternity....it's forever.......

TPR

SET THE STAGE

04-14-2008, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by SET THE STAGE
http://www.nitras.be/gibberish/raptorjesus.gif

SET THE STAGE

04-14-2008, 04:37 PM

tsk, tsk, tsk..

don't you know the 3 things you cannot question? taste, BELIEF, and opinion.

just sayin'

if someone wants to believe in a "god" as a scapegoat for "eternal happiness", so be it. let'em. if someone feels that they don't need an imaginary medium to be happy, that they can find happiness with real life items, so be it.

in my opinion, the only true "religion" anymore, is buddhism. i quote religion because it isn't meant to be considered one.

ThePhantomRider

04-14-2008, 05:37 PM

What you say is true, people have the ability to choose to believe what they want to and find peace in their lives in whatever way works.

You have found Buddhism, and that works for you, I am a Christian and it works for me.

When people refer to Christianity as "imaginary" it does spark some controversy as people are prone to get up in arms considering that a put down.

I'd rather look at it this way, the Bible is either the most well crafted collection of stories the world has ever known and to this day, impossible to duplicate, or it is a factual account of history. Of course in any case, we were not there,therefore it could be considered "imaginary" The same could be said for much of what else has been written in the past....Since I only have been able to read about Columbus' travels and discoveries, should those be considered imaginary since no one alive today has witnessed the events?

It's easy for people to read what is written and call it fact, so long as it does not tell them that they will spend eternity in hell if they do not follow the scripture. Then it's folly, a hoax, make believe.....sad but again, these are the tests that God intended for us to overcome.

TPR

wilkin250r

04-15-2008, 12:37 AM

Originally posted by speedyquad
wilkin...why is it so hard to believe that i am turned off by that attitude alone?

It's not a rational conclusion. You forge beliefs based on evidence, not on attitudes.

You can be turned off all you want. People's attitudes towards you will obviously affect your attitude in return. You hate Christians, therefore you refuse to be a part of organized Christianity. That would be the same as me saying that I hate all people from Ohio, therefore I will never go to Ohio.

But just because I hate the people, that doesn't mean I refuse to believe that Ohio exists. My beliefs are determined by evidence. I have seen Ohio on a map, I have talked to people that claim to be from there, I have seen proof from a variety of sources. Just because I don't like it, that doesn't mean it's not there. My attitude and my beliefs are determined by different factors.

You are trying to assert that God must be fake, simply because you don't like Christians. That doesn't follow a logical train of thought.

DF400ex

04-15-2008, 01:37 AM

Originally posted by klutch
It is not wrong. I am atheist. I just never bought into and never believed in it. But people the make the acusation that it is wrong by not believing it. They believe it is wrong. They can't buy into it being right i suppose.

No one can tell you what to do or what to believe. It's all good man. Faith is a personal thing. You will just burn in hell, lol. No, but really, it's all your decision man.

ThePhantomRider

04-15-2008, 03:22 PM

Here is a simple question to ask yourself in figuring out if you should believe in God or not.....

Look at your life, if you were to decide that tomorrow you would become a devout Christian and be the very best Christian you can be, what would you have to give up.

Now, think about this...let's compare what you are giving up today, for what the possible rewards are when you pass. If you are correct in your non belief, then you pass away and nothing happens, no harm, no foul. IF, if the word of God is true and there is a heaven and hell, wouldn't be nice to have your faith lead you to heaven?

Is there anything of the flesh worth giving up eternity for? We are not saying you won't have a drink or eat something bad, but really what is the downside?

I can tell you this much, if there was proof, proof that would validate the existence of heaven and hell so that there was no person on this earth could deny it's existence, how fast do you think people would say..."Oooh, oooh, oooh, I want to be a Christian, I believe in God...."

Nothing wrong with a little faith, but if you chose not to look, ask or believe, I am powerless to help you.

It's a choice for an individual to make, plain and simple.

TPR

SET THE STAGE

04-15-2008, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by ThePhantomRider
Here is a simple question to ask yourself in figuring out if you should believe in God or not.....

Look at your life, if you were to decide that tomorrow you would become a devout Christian and be the very best Christian you can be, what would you have to give up.

Now, think about this...let's compare what you are giving up today, for what the possible rewards are when you pass. If you are correct in your non belief, then you pass away and nothing happens, no harm, no foul. IF, if the word of God is true and there is a heaven and hell, wouldn't be nice to have your faith lead you to heaven?

Is there anything of the flesh worth giving up eternity for? We are not saying you won't have a drink or eat something bad, but really what is the downside?

I can tell you this much, if there was proof, proof that would validate the existence of heaven and hell so that there was no person on this earth could deny it's existence, how fast do you think people would say..."Oooh, oooh, oooh, I want to be a Christian, I believe in God...."

Nothing wrong with a little faith, but if you chose not to look, ask or believe, I am powerless to help you.

It's a choice for an individual to make, plain and simple.

TPR

you can't help those who don't believe it's helping anything, just sayin'.

"I can tell you this much, if there was proof, proof that would validate the existence of heaven and hell so that there was no person on this earth could deny it's existence, how fast do you think people would say...'Oooh, oooh, oooh, I want to be a Christian, I believe in God....'"
where's your argument on this? of course if there's PROOF, people can't deny that. until then, show me. i refuse to believe what has yet to be proven. a book of stories written by many anonymous people is not enough, sorry.

ThePhantomRider

04-15-2008, 04:37 PM

I can only help those that are open to the ideas. I can't force someone to believe, nor will I ever do so.

My point is, you say the people are anonymous who wrote the bible...is that because you never met them? It has been proven they did exist, but since you feel that what was written is too far out there to be plausible, then that makes it false?

That would be like me saying that while I see the Declaration of Independence, I can't believe it's real because it was signed by a bunch of guys I never met nor can 100% say for certain actually existed.

If you can feel happy in your life, with your beliefs, then by all means go your way, because when you pass, either you will be right and there will suddenly be nothing, or I will be right and I wouldn't want to be in your situation.

As I see it, the life you need to lead in order to go to heaven is a great thing in that if you are genuine, you will do good things and have a positive impact on those around you.

TPR

04-15-2008, 04:47 PM

maybe i mis-presented what i was trying to convey. the attitude is why i do not subscribe to any religious beliefs. it is not why i don't believe in god. on the contrary...slightly and temporarily moving away from my devils advocate roll...i will state my true feelings on the subject...

i do believe that, at one time, there were many supreme beings. they all contributed to creating the "spark" that started the universe...their involvement ended after that. the easiest way for me to explain their involvement after "the spark" is...the universe to them is what one big tv show would be to us...they can "change channels" and watch different areas of the universe, but they cannot/will not/ do not interfere at all. they may be powerless to actually cause any difference or they may just choose not to...you could pray to them all you want, but nothing would come of it. they may or may not still exist...

now with that being said...i go back to playing the devils advocate...phantomrider, who says i want/need your help...your religion does...your religion directs you to bring me in...to save me from myself and from eternal damnation because i don't believe or follow what it teaches...there is that attitude peeking it's little head out in a vailed offer of help...no thanks...i'll take my chances

wilkin...ohio does not exist....it is some imaginary lines on the map created by the government to keep things in check. to prove this, cross the state line into or out of ohio where there are no roads. do you see anything not man made to let you know you have entered or left ohio. is there a big line across the landscape that tells you if you are in or out of ohio? not that i know of. but to help your point...i believe ohio exists because i have been there...keeping in mind that ohio is a fictional place that has been made real by the power of the human mind...and the government...

back to phantom...would i have to give up anything...that would be hard to say...there may be conflicts there that i may not realize without taking that step...remember though that i do attend church fairly regularly(every other week at the very least) as my wife believes...and i respect he beliefs. she knows how i feel and does not try to push.

i was baptised as a catholic...my grandmother, when she is healthy, attends both saturday and sunday mass. my father graduated form catholic school, as did his 7 siblings...his one sister was a nun...so religion is strongly important to my family...so it is not as if i do not have any background with it...

Ralph

04-15-2008, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by ThePhantomRider
Here is a simple question to ask yourself in figuring out if you should believe in God or not.....

Look at your life, if you were to decide that tomorrow you would become a devout Christian and be the very best Christian you can be, what would you have to give up.

Now, think about this...let's compare what you are giving up today, for what the possible rewards are when you pass. If you are correct in your non belief, then you pass away and nothing happens, no harm, no foul. IF, if the word of God is true and there is a heaven and hell, wouldn't be nice to have your faith lead you to heaven?

Is there anything of the flesh worth giving up eternity for? We are not saying you won't have a drink or eat something bad, but really what is the downside?

I can tell you this much, if there was proof, proof that would validate the existence of heaven and hell so that there was no person on this earth could deny it's existence, how fast do you think people would say..."Oooh, oooh, oooh, I want to be a Christian, I believe in God...."

Nothing wrong with a little faith, but if you chose not to look, ask or believe, I am powerless to help you.

It's a choice for an individual to make, plain and simple.

TPR

just to play devils advocate here, does this argument not work the other way around?

If you knew and it was 100% proven there is no heaven/hell god etc. would you continue to be a devout christian?

04-15-2008, 05:05 PM

you can threaten me with a possible hell all you want, it will not help me change how i feel...keep trying to convince me...keep pushing me away...making me harder to help...

although i find it hard to argue against your comparison of the bible to the declaration of independence...only because they are 2 different types of documents, sort of...both, going from your view of what the bible is, are instructions...that works for you...that is great, it don't work for me...and here is the root of the whole issue...why can't you just let that be? why do you feel the need to "help"/"save" me?

as you said " I can only help those that are open to the ideas. I can't force someone to believe, nor will I ever do so."...but trying to help someone who does not want the help is trying to force them to believe...which is what you are doing with me, even though you will never do so...

"As I see it, the life you need to lead in order to go to heaven is a great thing in that if you are genuine, you will do good things and have a positive impact on those around you. "

does saving lives count as a positive impact? i was a volunteer firefighter/ rescue personell for 5 years and currently am in the process of rejoining in the township i have relocated to. in those five years, i have performed cpr 7 times. 5 saves, 2 loses...not that i am counting, but things like that kinda of stick with you. i have kept fire from entering the cab of a burning vehicle while the paramedics tried to revive a driver. all the while, ice was forming on my bunker gear. i have put out house fires adn just about any other thing you can think imaginable that would be associated with being a firefighter. does that qualify as having a positive impact on the people around me?

SET THE STAGE

04-15-2008, 06:27 PM

Originally posted by ThePhantomRider
I can only help those that are open to the ideas. I can't force someone to believe, nor will I ever do so.

My point is, you say the people are anonymous who wrote the bible...is that because you never met them? It has been proven they did exist, but since you feel that what was written is too far out there to be plausible, then that makes it false?

That would be like me saying that while I see the Declaration of Independence, I can't believe it's real because it was signed by a bunch of guys I never met nor can 100% say for certain actually existed.

If you can feel happy in your life, with your beliefs, then by all means go your way, because when you pass, either you will be right and there will suddenly be nothing, or I will be right and I wouldn't want to be in your situation.

As I see it, the life you need to lead in order to go to heaven is a great thing in that if you are genuine, you will do good things and have a positive impact on those around you.

TPR

dude, i don't care if they were real people or not. you can't even begin to compare the bible with the declaration of independence. that shouldn't even be considered an argument... let us compare

the declaration of independence
-written less than 200 years ago
-written by people with many documented facts
-DOES NOT STATE STORIES OF PEOPLE SPLITTING BODIES OF WATER IN HALF, PEOPLE RESURRECTING, OR TURNING STICKS INTO SNAKES... just sayin'

the bible
-written well over a thousand years ago
-written by numerous amounts of people, many of which have no documented history other than the bible
-dude, he split a body of water in half....

why don't said occurrences that happened in the bible, happen anymore? when was the last occurrence of something similar happening?

416exfreak

04-15-2008, 06:39 PM

Originally posted by ThePhantomRider

As I see it, the life you need to lead in order to go to heaven is a great thing in that if you are genuine, you will do good things and have a positive impact on those around you.

TPR

I think thats the whole point in the bible. It basically gives people a bunch of morals to look at, and follow. And by doing as this book says, your granted eternal happiness.

Seems a little to good to be true to me. I'll take my chances with the beleive that when Im dead, I'll just be worm food.:macho

bwamos

04-16-2008, 06:36 AM

Originally posted by 416exfreak
I think thats the whole point in the bible. It basically gives people a bunch of morals to look at, and follow. And by doing as this book says, your granted eternal happiness.

Seems a little to good to be true to me. I'll take my chances with the beleive that when Im dead, I'll just be worm food.:macho

Actually that is not what the bible says. ;)
It infact points out that noone is good enough to get into heaven based on their own merits. Mother Teresa, Billy Graham, the Pope, and everyone else fall short. The only way to get into heaven based on our own merits would be for us to be equal to God himself. The price of our shortcomings is death and to be forever seperated from God. Pretty grim, eh? That's the bad news.

The good news is that God sent down his own precious child to atone (to make amends / to receive our punishment) for our own shortcomings. That is why Jesus had to come, and that is why he had to die. And, that is why he had to rise again. He had to be the perfect sacrifice and overcome death so that me, you, and all others willing to allow him to take our punishment may also spend eternity/forever with him. As far as I know that is Gods greatest desire. For us to be with him forever.

It's not what we do, or what we know that saves us from our fate. It is who we know, and what has already been done.

ThePhantomRider

04-16-2008, 10:01 AM

There it is in a nutshell, while I attempt to engage in a conversation on the topic, it gets spun in a dozen directions because people instantly feel that somehow, by me saying that I can only help if someone asks for help or guidance, it therefore means that I am trying to force them to seek help.

It's your God given choice to believe or not to believe. If you choose to live your life away from God and what Jesus sacrificed for, then your wish is granted.....Go live your life and when you pass you'll either be right and there will be nothing, or you'll be wrong and it will be as it has been written.....it could even be something totally different.

Because I believe in God's word, I not only find I have a path to follow through life, but can rest comfortably knowing that in my case, in my beliefs, that I will be rewarded.

You may not see it as such, and for that I can't make you understand, however as I stated before, I can and will help those that seek it, and those that do not, have every God given right not to.

TPR

ThePhantomRider

04-16-2008, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by SET THE STAGE
dude, i don't care if they were real people or not. you can't even begin to compare the bible with the declaration of independence. that shouldn't even be considered an argument... let us compare

the declaration of independence
-written less than 200 years ago
-written by people with many documented facts
-DOES NOT STATE STORIES OF PEOPLE SPLITTING BODIES OF WATER IN HALF, PEOPLE RESURRECTING, OR TURNING STICKS INTO SNAKES... just sayin'

the bible
-written well over a thousand years ago
-written by numerous amounts of people, many of which have no documented history other than the bible
-dude, he split a body of water in half....

why don't said occurrences that happened in the bible, happen anymore? when was the last occurrence of something similar happening?

There you go, while it matters that one document was written and verified in one respect, because things that have been written and documented in another is hogwash simply because there are "amazing" occurrences witnessed and documented in another.

You do not care if those that wrote the bible actually are the ones that wrote the bible.

Let us think about the times....you would have to be able to grab the attention of these people in some amazing way in order to make them think....to get the ball rolling in order to have people not only believe, but get the word out to as many and as quickly as possible.

If the Bible was hogwash as you would say, then why has it endured, why is the Bible the most popular selling book at over 100,000,000 copies a year still to this day?

The idea that you need to see someone turn water to wine or split a body of water is indeed the very essence of faith. Ultimate faith is not seeing these things happen to know they happened.

Again my friend, you do not have those beliefs, that is your choice and you are entitled. I have a choice as well, and while I choose a path that is not only different, but one you choose not to believe, that is what makes me feel complete.

I assume that how those who choose not to believe feel about their lives. If that works for you, great....however if you decide down the road that you want to learn, perhaps believe yourself, there are plenty of people out there willing to show you the way.

God bless you all.

TPR

SET THE STAGE

04-16-2008, 11:14 AM

it has endured and still sells greatly because people need a scapegoat. science hundreds of years ago, obviously, was not as great as it is today.

answer me one thing, why don't you believe in any other religion's god? because, you know, there IS more than one proclaimed god. what makes your god the right one?

ThePhantomRider

04-16-2008, 01:14 PM

It is the right God for me because I believe it to be so. Simple as that. It's to me the most plausible explanation as to how we got here, everything in the universe...somewhere, at some time all of this was created and not by mistake.

Again, just as you choose to follow your own path, this is mine. I respect your decision as you deem it's right for you, and I should expect you to respect mine as I have not at any single moment wished ill will or damnation on anyone opposed to Christianity.

I sleep sound every night because my faith is strong and it leads me to good choices in life.

You probably sleep sound living your life. It's not for me to decided what you should do as I have said, only to be there for those that seek the word.

TPR

wilkin250r

04-16-2008, 06:14 PM

Originally posted by SET THE STAGE
answer me one thing, why don't you believe in any other religion's god? because, you know, there IS more than one proclaimed god. what makes your god the right one?

That's simple. He's the right God for me.

SET THE STAGE

04-16-2008, 07:08 PM

Originally posted by wilkin250r
That's simple. He's the right God for me.

does that make the people who believe in other gods wrong then?

riddle me this, if you're a polytheist, that means you believe in more than one god (and follow under them. not just believe that more than one exists). if you're a monotheist, you believe in one god and only that god. that must mean that anyone else's god is wrong, am i right?

being a christian, that makes you a monotheist.

wilkin250r

04-16-2008, 07:42 PM

Originally posted by SET THE STAGE
does that make the people who believe in other gods wrong then?

I'm not sure that my beliefs coincide with mainstream Christianity. I firmly believe that there are other Gods. They are just not for me.

There are several reasons for this belief, but I'll submit simply the first of the Ten Commandments.

"I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;
> Do not have any other gods before me.

>You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

>You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God...

Although things have changed from the original ancient Hebrew, the wording in the bible is very specific, and has a great deal of meaning.

Notice the first part says "I am the Lord your God". It does not say that "I am the only God". I am your God. This is very significant.

Notice also, the first two Commandments. These are generally interpreted as "Thou shalt have no other God before me", and "Thou shalt not worship any earthly idol over me", meaning money, power, ect ect. Again, this is significant, the fact that they are two distinct commandments. If there were no other gods, then it would stand to reason that these two could be combined to a single "Thou shalt not worship anything over me". But instead, they are distinct. No OTHER gods, and no other idols.

These lead me to believe that other gods do indeed exist. And I don't believe they are wrong. I don't believe that other religions are wrong. But they are not for me. Buddha is not MY god.

250r(quadman19)

04-16-2008, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by wilkin250r
I'm not sure that my beliefs coincide with mainstream Christianity. I firmly believe that there are other Gods. They are just not for me.

There are several reasons for this belief, but I'll submit simply the first of the Ten Commandments.

"I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;
> Do not have any other gods before me.

>You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

>You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God...

Although things have changed from the original ancient Hebrew, the wording in the bible is very specific, and has a great deal of meaning.

Notice the first part says "I am the Lord your God". It does not say that "I am the only God". I am your God. This is very significant.

Notice also, the first two Commandments. These are generally interpreted as "Thou shalt have no other God before me", and "Thou shalt not worship any earthly idol over me", meaning money, power, ect ect. Again, this is significant, the fact that they are two distinct commandments. If there were no other gods, then it would stand to reason that these two could be combined to a single "Thou shalt not worship anything over me". But instead, they are distinct. No OTHER gods, and no other idols.

These lead me to believe that other gods do indeed exist. And I don't believe they are wrong. I don't believe that other religions are wrong. But they are not for me. Buddha is not MY god.

dude..buddha is not a god, not to be worshipped as a god, isn't a messiah, isn't a prophet or anything like that. he was only a human being and you don't worship buddha either. in buddhism it's only about the human condition and you can believe in a god or not. buddhism is seen as a religion here in the west when really it is more of a philosophy. there are people of every religion that also follow the teachings of buddhism. sorry, i thought you just were misinterpreting things

wilkin250r

04-16-2008, 08:32 PM

Originally posted by 250r(quadman19)
dude..buddha is not a god...

... i thought you just were misinterpreting things

Over-simplifying. I needed an example. Allah and Yahweh are actually the same diety, just different sects. And nobody knows who Vishnu is...

250r(quadman19)

04-16-2008, 09:02 PM

Originally posted by wilkin250r
Over-simplifying. I needed an example. Allah and Yahweh are actually the same diety, just different sects. And nobody knows who Vishnu is...

oooo i gotcha :cool: yea it gets pretty deep and there's so many different sects and divisions you can get lost and confused pretty fast :p

moorhous

04-21-2008, 01:10 PM

speedyquad your a smart guy and have a real good way with words. some of the things you have said are words I have been looking for. I Just cant buy the bible.

250x_kyle

04-21-2008, 07:39 PM

I see it like this. Who is to tell you that you are wrong or right. I personaly believe in God and if you dont i could care less. they are your own personal beliefs. its your choice to believe or not to believe. this is almost like saying that politics are good.

toomeyshee87

04-22-2008, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by 250xridamatt
It's very hard for me to believe that God is real, and that the Bible was embellished at the same time. The Scribes of the time took the text and copied it. If they made one single mistake, one wrong stroke of the pen, they would burn all of the work they had just done. Many many precautions were taken to make sure that things were written down exactly as they happened.

Many people try to argue that the 4 gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) all being different completely destroys their credibility. That one person made something up, or perhaps changed up the story a little bit. They were actually written for 4 different groups of people and with 4 different purposes.

I believe that God is all powerful. I am comletely able to accept that he parted the red sea. Of course if any human claimed that he could, I would never believe them in a million years. But I think God is more than that.

Just my .02
you need to remember that not every part of the bible is meant to be taken literally. a lot of it is references to other events (many of which we do not have any knowledge of since they happened long ago). yet, other parts are specific and are meant to be taken as they are told. (this is why there are pastors to distinguish the difference)

the bible is understood very differently by different religions, and even individuals in these religions because of the way people interpret the stories. that is why there are always people questioning religion.

many of the stories that are criticized for being "absurd" or "impossible" may actually be. they aren't all meant to be taken literally. interpretation and reference is everything.

i am a firm believer in God but i do have a lot of questions about my religion and the bible. i try to answer them myself by researching and also talk to others in my church's congregation. but, don't get me wrong, i watch the discovery channel everyday and study biology, chemistry, and other sciences in college. some theories i believe, but others i question.

the bottom line is, many scientific theories that are taught in schools are just that. theories. many are taught to be true, yet they only can prove a percent of the whole. even after this, they are still believed and taught to be true.

for a quick example, say i am not a believer but also not an atheist, i am neutral. I go to school and learn the theory of evolution. i believe this because i was taught this in school and i assume that it is correct (whether it is or not). then i hear about creationism outside of school and wonder why i was not taught this? shouldn't i have the choice of what i am taught? why is it that non-believers are opposed to creationism being taught in schools (even in conjunction with evolution) or even any mention that there is another theory to the creation of the world. why dont believers have a say in this? it is simply ignorance by the non-believers. they dont want religion pushed on them (i.e. creationism) but they can push evolution onto believers. not to start anything between evolution and creationism in schools, just some food for thought. there is faults on either side.

there are two sides to every matter. and i wish everyone would remember that. i have friends that dont believe in God, and that is none of my business as i see it. to each his own. but, i still think that everyone should have the chance to hear the word of God, whether they choose to believe it or not.
sorry for the long post :blah:

JDRider

05-06-2008, 05:24 PM

First I would like to thank the Moderators of this forum for allowing this subject.

Funny this topic would be up. I just wrote an article for my hometown newspaper.

One thing many people never mention when speaking about thier belief.

Once one has said a prayer and truely believe that Jesus died and with him he paid the price for all of your sins, Jesus now comes into your soul. You will now begin to see and look at situations different that before. It is called the Holy Spirit. This Holy Spirit is free to all.

By the way, I once was totally aginst God, absolutly had nothing to with the thought. Obviously I have changed, it is a slow process, I spent 45 years not believing, now 2 years believing.

When you accept Jesus as your savior, you don't turn into a Bible thumper, I hated those people. You simply act on impulses that the Holy Spirit impresses on you. You still have free will to do as you please. Yet, the Holy Spirit will make you reconsider your motives and you will become freer and more understanding of the non understandable over time.

Here is the article I wrote, it is for the person needs to see to believe.

If only God would have gotten a Patent.
Henry Ford, Alexander Grahm Bell, Thomas Edison, just to name a few. Men who have been credited and acknowledged for their creations or inventions. Names that are written in the books of history and taught to generation after generation of their great contributions to mankind.

Let’s take a look at another creator of who seems to be losing his credibility in the world today, God. Please take the time to ponder the seeable/ touchable works all around us everyday that we take for granted.

The Bible tells that God created Earth, and then he created Man to be the caretaker of Earth. Perhaps if we look at the relation between man and earth we can learn to appreciate this statement.

Lets begin with life expectancy. Mankind has about the longest life expectancy of any animal. Of course we stand and walk on our feet, allowing us to walk and carry and use our hands to multitask. We have been given a brain to grow intelligently, far beyond any other creature on the planet. Speaking of growing, consider this. If the “sky is the limit” why do we stop growing with the average height of around 5 to 6 feet tall? Notice if you will, the perfect direct relationship we have with our surrounding vegetation. If we grew to a height of 10 feet tall we would be out of proportion to the trees that serve so many of our needs, lumber, fruit, shade, paper, we would simply run out of this natural resource.

Lets go back to the intelligence factor. Why is it that the intelligent brain was given to man? What a coincidence that the intelligence was given to a creature who also possesses
the arms, legs, torso, and lets not forget the hands with the opposing thumb on each hand that can to carry out the task that the brain has developed. This intelligence in any other creature on earth would be a complete waste. The Bible does tell us that “God made us in his image”.

Lets look at the wonders of Earth itself. We have changing weather due to high and low pressures in the atmosphere, without an actual dividing wall one would think the pressures would just blend together and be the same everywhere. Speaking of blending, if we have salt water totally surrounding every landmass, and we have areas where fresh water has flowed together with salt water for thousands of years, you would think by now they would also just blend together and be the same. If we have the center of the earth filled with super hot lava and it’s over 100 degrees outside, how does my well water stay cool all year long? Who decided on the exact size of Earth itself, once again we get the size proportion and it’s perfect fit of all things on earth. Nothing says it couldn’t be half its size and we’d be out of room by now.

Have you ever noticed how natural resources have been distributed around the Earth. Whether it be gold, silver, iron, trees, oil, diamonds, fish, coal, its like it was all strategically placed to give every governing body an equal share in the world economy. How unfair it would be if one country was given all the natural resources and could overpower and control the rest of the world. Proverbs 16.11 “Honest scales and balances are from the Lord; all the weights in the bag are of his making.

This has been written for those who say, “ I only believe in that of which I can see or touch”. How unfair it is to us that are more mechanically minded versus emotionally minded that the idea of accepting an invisible spirit that can transform our thinking and outlook on life and beyond is out of our grasp. I say to you, God is not only a spirit, he is a creator, he has done more with his hands than we could ever image. We can just watch a sunrise or a sunset, or climb a mountain and be in awe of the view of snow-capped mountains to see and touch God’s works.

How shameful our pride that grows within us that covers the everyday surroundings we take for granted. We lust after the beyond without appreciating the very ground we stand on.

How shameful our Pride that we honor and give praise to men of history without giving praise to the original creator, God.

I am sure you never shook hands with any of the inventors I mentioned earlier. Yet, you will fully stand behind the idea that they existed. They simply occupy chapters and pages of history books that have been written by man, to glorify man.

PSALM 115; Not to us, O Lord, not to us but to your name be the glory, because of your love and faithfulness.
115:3 Our God is in heaven; he does whatever pleases him.
115:13 He will bless those who fear the Lord. Small and great alike.
115:15 May you be blessed by the Lord. The maker of heaven and earth.

Every human has an empty cavern within them needing to be filled. We all feel it; some fill it with money, drugs, alcohol, sex, work. It is a void that only the spirit of the original creator can fill. It’s called the Holy Sprit, it is there, it has your name on it, you just need to drop your pride, open your heart and accept it.

Looking back at history and credit due to our inventors of the past. The biggest difference I see between man and God is that man was granted a Patent number for their creations.

What a better world we would have “If only God would have gotten a Patent”.