A hybrid like no other

[MotoX_Racer07]

Check it out, For more info go to the 250R forum. I have posted more pics and info there.

[MotoX_Racer07]

Full view

[j450rking]

did you make that frame??? that is relly ****ing sweet!!! i just put a r engine in my 00ex but this is so much cleaner. props to you man

[toomeyshee87]

i think thats a cannondale frame

[MotoX_Racer07]

Thanks guys, Yes it is a Cannondale frame. Glad you guys appreciate the work done. A guy in the R forum basically thought I was dumb to build it, and said it was a waist of money. *LOL* Some people just can't appreciate a work of art when they see it. Some people huh. Its called a hobby, I love to build custom stuff no one else has. I don't see a problem with it. But anyway, thanks!

[j450rking]

oh ok. i didn't even think about the cannondale frame. i don't see many of them so i wouldn't recognize one right away. i just thought you were a tig welding master:macho i think it's awsome and you couldn't have done a better job. it looks like a stock bike that was customized! is that silver veain powder coat on the engine i see? if it is i don't think it will hold

[MotoX_Racer07]

No its called Black stardust, its a two stage powder coat with a clear powder on top. It is a shimmery/sparkle looking powder. Shines all different colors in sunlight. Pretty neat looking, pictures don't show it justice. Its held up just fine. I do all my own powder coating, its all in how you Prep what your doing. If your powder coat chips, someone isn't prepping the surface right. I found sandblasted surfaces to hold the best. There is also powder coat primers out there, but I have found no advantage to using them. Just more time waisted really.

[j450rking]

hmmm that sounds cool. i also do my own powder coating but i haven't got a sand blaster yet. i have never tested with high heat stuff but i don't know the surface temp of the engine so i don't know if it gets over 350 degrees anyway. thats a dirt bike engine right? and the dirt bike exhaust? can i get a pic of the right side so i can get a better pic of the exhaust and stuff? i just relly like this thing but i'll never do it. i just like to see diferent 250r engine hybrids and stuff. i sure like mine:D

[MotoX_Racer07]

Here is one. I will get some more going for you guys. More detailed stuff. If these are well taken, more will be built.

[MotoX_Racer07]

another

[MotoX_Racer07]

Front

[ciscorc]

very nice conversion. I saw it down at Champion and it is definitely a clean build.

[Nac's22]

thing is sweet man!! can you get some pics of it rippin it up in the dirt??

[Dave_989]

how is it on vibration considering its not a conterbalanced motor???

[MotoX_Racer07]

Well we had some problems with it when we went to the Billet aluminum engine cradle. It was way to rigid and was unbearable within 30 minutes of riding. With the aluminum tubing it nearly disappeared. You only notice it when you blip the throttle at a complete standstill. When the power is put to the ground its near nonexistent. I haven't had any problems with arm pump at all like before. We have tried many different ways of mounting th engine. Some different head stays, taking it out completely and finally now we figured out how to make it absorbed through the chassis and not through the bars. Its one of them things we just tried all the options and found one that worked. Anybody that has ridden it is surprised at how well it runs, believe it or not a Cannondale vibrates more then this does.

[hontrx265r]

I have a cannondale moto and I'm not suprised at all that it doesn't vibrate more they vibrate pretty good normally. the converison looks really good props for a good job. But honestly what I'm more interested in is that plastic what did that take. Please help me I love my cdale but I hate the plastic and I can't find a used 250r kit.

[MotoX_Racer07]

Well the plastic was actually pretty easy for us since we have the tools and equipment. When we first did the conversion the first two years I ran it with the cannondale plastic and an Aluminum gas tank. When I got to the point where I was happy with the quad, thats when the plastic was swapped. It uses the stock 400ex plastic tank also. Everything mounting wise we tried to keep it to off the shelf parts from Honda. Mainly all 400ex. You basically have to cut all the plastic & gas tank mounting tabs off the top of the chassis & sides. Need to be able to tig weld new aluminum tabs also. Its kinda hard for an average joe guy to do, being a lot of the parts were hand fabbed or machined billet. Which you can cheapen it up really, but I'm sure you don't want it looking hacked up. A lot of the metal wire mounts were all made and rebent to use the lower tabs above the radiator where the original C-dale mounts. A new sub frame has to be fabricated also. Which you can make it out of Chromolly, but we chose to keep it aluminum to match the rest of the bike. Its actually going to be hard to explain without seeing it. I don't know how capable you are of this either. I will get some pics together, but I really think its not going to be able to be done on a c-dale because of you still using the Cannondale parts. We had to do away with a lot of Cannondales mounts because nothing would line up unless we did away with it completely. As I'm thinking of it more things keep comming to mind also that would make this more difficult. But I will get some updated pics of the plastic off the machine. Then you can get a feel for what its going to take.

[ciscorc]

Hondatrx265r, if you want a different look on your c-dale and don't have the capability to fabricate there is always the 250r conversion kit. I don't know if anyone is still making them new but i am sure you can pick up a used one from cannondaleriders.com. If you are just a trail rider the only downfall is the decreased fuel capacity

[KingpinsEx]

I would like to hear how it does out on the track! Nice build, very clean :eek2:

[MotoX_Racer07]

Before we found out it caused vibration issues. A lot of time spend on that one being all machined free hand, my buddy did that, My machining skills aren't that polished yet. I did do the billet water pump cover though. None of this was CNC it was all freehand bridgeport work. None of that easy punching numbers and the work is done for you. Old school

[MotoX_Racer07]

Another shot of the rear, ever see an airbox like that? It uses the stock CR250 intake and filter. Still looking through the building process discs, can't seem to find the actual build process pics. They will come up here though. I will getcha some more details as soon as I come accross them

[MotoX_Racer07]

Another shot

[MotoX_Racer07]

No radiator shrouds, it wasn't finished here yet.

[MotoX_Racer07]

Came across this one, the very beginning, so much work from that point to now.

[MotoX_Racer07]

Back in spring/summer 04

[dirtdog400ex]

Wow thats an awsome build very nice. Its good to see someone other than myself taking an intrest in the 2 strokes. Im building a 2001 400ex with a 1988 CR500 motor with a 515 big bore kit in it and im also nervous about the vibration issues. Im thinking of possibly rubber mounts. The cr500 motor is much skinnier than the 400ex motor so I have issues with the kick start clearing the rear brake cylinder. Im putting a 250r fmf pipe on it but wondering if the expansion chamber is large enough. Also putting a 250r radiator in it as well hopefully its enough to cool it and ill install air scoops. If you want to look at mine and maybe give me a little feedback on what I should do go to atvnc.com go under modifications and look for dirtdog400ex.

[dirtdog400ex]

heres my cr515r

[dirtdog400ex]

:D

[dirtdog400ex]

:confused:

[MotoX_Racer07]

Well as far as the CR500 goes its probably going to be best to cushion the motor the best you can. The only thing that sucks is in a steel fame it will nearly shake your teeth out. We did a 400ex Chassis with a KTM 250SX two stroke engine. It wasn't even fun to ride. That one has already started getting the engine cases machined for polyurethane bushings and steel sleeves. Couldn't tell you yet if its going to work. Service honda claims they have some special way of finding how the engine resonates in the chassis and mounts it in a triangular way. That supposedly stopped there issues. I have no way of telling that so its one of them trial and error things. Just try different things and hope one works. If the chassis is taking all that vibration it will break really quick because it fatigues the metal and weakens it. Best thing to do is rubber mount it. They do it with Harley's and some Honda Utilities I've seen. But were talking four strokes with push rods very slow revving low tech engines. Not a high revving engine like a two stroke. I don't claim to know it all either. I find out by just doing it and thinking things through, and eliminating possibilities.

[dirtdog400ex]

Ok rubber mounting it is. Thanks for the input.

[4x4quadking]

on the cannondale quad, how did you change the drive on the swing arm, i have had a cannondale and when the motor snapped a rod was thinking about doing the converison with trx 250r motor, but with the drvie on the rear brake side and the trx drive on the shifter side i didnt kinow what to do, i thought about flipping the swing arm and welding the no link shock mount back on, the bottle on the shock was where i needed the exhaust to go and there was just no room, what pipe did you find to work also? i was going to try a three wheeler pipe, yours look like a bike pipe??

[MotoX_Racer07]

Thats pretty easy its a matter of taking your bearing carrier and putting it in the opposite side. Thats it. You just have to make a new brake caliper stay and tab on the swingarm to hold it in place. I'd advise you not to use a cannondale swingarm. I've broken the prototype swingarm completely off the piviot and the stock ones break the same way. If your not motoXing it you would be fine. But I guess it depends on how hard you ride. The R motor would be a little more difficult, I've seen one done but it wasn't nothing I was impressed with. Motor was crooked and the guy hacked up the chassis to make it work. Its a lot of work, it took a good 8 months before I got everything where it needed to be. Yes that is a Bike pipe I used, with some slight mods. Didn't take any material out, just have to cut and spin it in a few spots. We didn't want to make any changes to the volume of the pipe.

[2muchquad]

Bike pipe I used, with some slight mods. Didn't take any material out, just have to cut and spin it in a few spots. We didn't want to make any changes to the volume of the pipe.

I can bet that thing rips.Once i get my camera set up for this new computer of mine,i will post my pics.I used a 250r frame with a newer 450r swing arm and axle set up.I would have loved to use the pro circuit pipe i have but i would have had to butcher it too much to work in the r frame.Im using a 96 based motor but i have a couple cylinders i can use.Most people dont realize these motors made almost 45hp plus stock,they are just ignorant.Mine doesnt look as nice as yours but i havent broken anything since i finished it last summer.Vibration is only a problem if i rev it up in neutral but actual riding its not even a issue.Big props on your build,dare to be different

[g9901920]

Nice, i like to see hybrids build right..

[4x4quadking]

did you have to dish the frame for the kicker?? what swing arm are you using, what about shock and link are you using also?? i hate to keep asking questions , but it looks clean and my buds said it coundnt be done, now they have drool coming out their mouths!!

[MotoX_Racer07]

The first one built yes there was a very slight notch in the chassis for the kicker shaft. But that was because during mock up we thought it had to be for clearance. Well once the engine was level in place it was clear, so the next one built had nothing done to it. The only actual major change in the chassis is the shock mount crossover. That is notched and filled with a U shaped piece of aluminum and welded in. That is for carburetor clearance. The swing arm is Diamond racing, along with all the other chassis components. It uses stock Cannondale No link suspension. If people are interested, we will build you one. But that comes with a cost, and its not cheap. It would be one level of quality and no corners cut. The only thing that we would do to cheapen one up is less bling, and cheaper shocks. Your buddies were evidently wrong huh? lol There is one with a KTM 525 if you can believe it. But that was done by my friend. It is way more in depth.

[thedeatons]

PM Sent. Please respond!! :)

[yzhybrid450]

i had one with a yz 426 motor done by jb turned out sick and now im working on one with crf motor in it

[MotoX_Racer07]

Yeah I've seen the 426 one. I'm more of a perfectionist, its gotta look factory for me to accept a conversion. Yes I commend people who try, but when you see booger welds, people using steel gas pipe for spacers and so on, it makes the conversion a hack. Currently I am building a TRX250R Motor in a Cannondale chassis. I've been down the C-dale road and its not what the die hards make it out to be If you ask me. Hell I can build three two stroke motors top to bottom for what it cost to do one C-dale. Its cheap! I'm so impressed with the conversions and the handling that I have to build another for myself. Its enjoyable doing things no one else is doing also, its a whole new re engineering process to make everything work correctly. To me any mechanically inclined person can build a motor, but it takes talent to make something work that never was intended for the purpose.

[2muchquad]

I'm more of a perfectionist, its gotta look factory for me to accept a conversion. Yes I commend people who try, but when you see booger welds, people using steel gas pipe for spacers and so on, it makes the conversion a hack.

And you are who?An authority on conversions?I commend people that are willing to do what they can to make things work despite lack of engineering degrees and bottomless wallets.Just because everyone may not have the resources to have somebody they know do their stuff or have a buddy with a cnc shop doesnt mean they have "hacks":ermm:

[redipsweb]

Hey MotoX_Racer07, I sent you a PM & was curious about a response?

[MotoX_Racer07]

2muchquad,
Nope no degree here, authority on conversions, don't remember saying that. Bottomless wallet, Nope. Bust my *** to further myself everyday YES!. You have the right to chose in this country, if you wanna make 8 dollars an hour thats fine, Your choice. I didn't have any machining experience, but I learned, furthered myself and bought a machine shop. I am where I am because I take pride in what I do. Go getters go get it. Like I said I commend people for trying, thats how you learn. So take it for what its worth.

[woodsracer144]

so did this bolt right up in your cannondale?

[KingpinsEx]

Did you have this quad in spartansburg PA? I thought I remeber seeing it there or one that looked a heck of a lot like it...

[jrspawn]

Originally posted by KingpinsEx
Did you have this quad in spartansburg PA? I thought I remeber seeing it there or one that looked a heck of a lot like it...

There was one about identical to it in PA at one time i know of, and then someone in ohio had one similiar to it also.

Thank you
Justin