Need low-end torque - what cam?

[quad2xtreme]

I bought a 2008 450er for my wife for trail riding instead of the 400ex. Although the power is great and really turns over the 22" tires, it is more difficult at lower speeds on technical hillclimbs.

Does anyone have a tried and true setup? I am looking for a drop in cam and carb adjustments. I am willing to drop another opening in the airbox but not completely remove the airbox cover. I would add another snorkle tube like the current airbox lid has.

My 2nd option would be the HRC kit but I would like even more low-end torque than that.

Any help is appreciated. I am hoping Mickey Dunlap will have some advice but I am not sure he messes much with stock engines.

/jon

[hondarider101]

i run a stage one hotcam, and a full wb exhaust, removed the airbox lid, and a 185 main jet and down one on the needle. big difference from stock. where do u race/ ride at in NC?

[the Z Man]

You could either go to a 20" tire or go down one tooth ohn the front sprocket...

[tjar66]

I second the dropping the front sprocket down a tooth

[roundsy]

i agree with what's been previously stated, drop to a 12 tooth front sprocket and even a 39 on the back.

If you still want more low end i'd grab quiet series pipe (since you said its for trails) and jet accordingly (165 main, 55 leak, crf adjustable needle on the 3rd clip is usually a good start) although you will most likely have to gut your airbox lid more than you desire. I personally run no lid with an outerwears cover that replaces the stock lid. I trimmed my old lid down to just the outer rim so that it clamps the outerwears in place better then the provided velcro.

If you still want more!...throw a stg 1 hotcam in and then it will be arm ripping.

hope this helped

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by hondarider101
where do u race/ ride at in NC?

I don't race at all. I have an mx quad I ride both tracks at NCMP and both tracks at Breezewood Proving Grounds. I've been to Cow Branch but the new changes are way too technical and scary for me. I consider myself a mid-level intermediate mx rider.

We mostly trail ride at Hatfield McCoy and Carolina Adventure World. Occasionally, we go to NCMP and Busco Beach for the trails.

Where do you ride?

On the 400ex quads, I opened the airbox using a EHS lid and rejetting. I guess I would consider an EHS lid for the 450r. I am okay with the bike being as loud as the HRC kit.

She goes between the 20" and 22" tires depending on the conditions. Muddy and rutted...22" Razr2 tires. She prefers the 20" tires though. I thought about the 12 tooth. I use to run my Raptor with one and didn't have any problems with the tighter radius. I used to rotate between 3 front sprockets every month to help the chain and rear sprocket last longer.

What I want the most is that really low end grunt like the 400ex where it is practically impossible to stall. I figured it would take a cam designed to put the peak torque lower in the rpm range. I know she would be giving away on the top end.

Thanks for all the posts. Plenty to think about.

[RideRaceLive93]

ok hot cam stage one get the hrc lid ive heard it gives more toque that removing the hole thing and you could drop the gear one in the front or raise it in the back,thats prob the cheapest,but.......you could get an full or slip on exhaust i know a lot of people use an hrc header and a hmf slip-on.but yuour gunna have to do your homework on the pipes.And if money really isn't a poblem you could get a a high comp piston.And even further a stroker crank or big bore.

[hondarider101]

oh we ride at caw everynow and then hatfeild all those



I don't race at all. I have an mx quad I ride both tracks at NCMP and both tracks at Breezewood Proving Grounds. I've been to Cow Branch but the new changes are way too technical and scary for me. I consider myself a mid-level intermediate mx rider.

We mostly trail ride at Hatfield McCoy and Carolina Adventure World. Occasionally, we go to NCMP and Busco Beach for the trails.

Where do you ride?

On the 400ex quads, I opened the airbox using a EHS lid and rejetting. I guess I would consider an EHS lid for the 450r. I am okay with the bike being as loud as the HRC kit.

She goes between the 20" and 22" tires depending on the conditions. Muddy and rutted...22" Razr2 tires. She prefers the 20" tires though. I thought about the 12 tooth. I use to run my Raptor with one and didn't have any problems with the tighter radius. I used to rotate between 3 front sprockets every month to help the chain and rear sprocket last longer.

What I want the most is that really low end grunt like the 400ex where it is practically impossible to stall. I figured it would take a cam designed to put the peak torque lower in the rpm range. I know she would be giving away on the top end.

Thanks for all the posts. Plenty to think about. [/QUOTE]

[450rJam]

hrc and drop to a 12 tooth front sprocket

its going to be a low end monster
(you may need to add weights to the front end)

[NJ450rider]

Yup gotta gear it down to be a low end chugging machine like the 400ex. One tooth on the front is pretty much standard procedure.

also the HRC kit would be great but instead of the hrc cam sell it or trade someone for a hotcams stage 1. the hrc cam is for top end power. hotcams stage 1 is for low end.

Also it takes a lil bit to get the gearing differences down. the 400ex likes to lug low and slow and the 450r does not. Its a faster moving/ higher revving engine.

I just got my 450r back together for this year last week. Before that i was on my 400ex for 4 months straight. Talk about learning how to ride it again. It was quite a funny sight.

Originally posted by quad2xtreme
What I want the most is that really low end grunt like the 400ex where it is practically impossible to stall. I figured it would take a cam designed to put the peak torque lower in the rpm range. I know she would be giving away on the top end.

That is why I prefer the 400ex for trails from leisure to aggressive racing in the trails because it doesnt need to be reved as high as the 450's. 450's are basically made to go fast and be pushed.

[chadbarger18]

in 450hq what i understud was that a 02 crf cam had the most low end out of everything correct me if im wrong though

[450rJam]

the hrc cam for the 04/05 is a top end cam

the hrc cam for the 06+ is a low/mid cam

may not need the lower tooth with the hrc kit, it really wakes up the 450r (on your 08 you will swear its a diff. atv)

[duke416ex]

The 08's use a different style cam, they moved the decomp to the opposit eside and the cams for the 04-07 bikes will not work. Some of the newer dirtbikes had this set up I believe but I am not sure on which years or what the cams were best for in the bikes. Hotcams is probably making one for the 08 and like everyone said the stage one will give more low end.

[quad2xtreme]

If I get the Hotcams Stage 1, what should the rest of the changes be?

When, I put the HRC kit into my 2006 it came with the cam, carb adjustments, airbox changes, new headpipe, and new insert and endcap for the stock exhaust. I remember making a few changes to the carb besides the needle and jet. Specifically, I remember using the dremel to notch a screw so I could turn it with a regular screw driver etc.

I want a similar setup for the Hotcams Stage 1. Do I get an EHS lid? Should I get a Dynojet kit for the carb adjustments? What about the exhaust...what will work best to match the low-end of the Stage 1 cam?

I pretty much like packaged solutions that are tried-and-true. For example when I built up my 350 Chevy engine, I got a kit with a new Edelbrock intake manifold, Holley carb, headers, and cam. It was all designed to work together. The end results were tried-and-true with no fuss.

Thanks again for all the input.

[duke416ex]

I don't know if Hotcams sells a kit like that, but they would make recommendations on a good starting point. Best bet would be to probably call them and see what they say to start with. A better lid then stock for air flow and of course jetting is pretty much a given from stock.