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View Full Version : 53hp stock at crank!!



GE4x4
03-21-2008, 01:21 PM
According to the California resource board, the 700XX has 53hp at crank. Not to bad.700XX HP (http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/ofhrv/ofmcatv_comply/2008/honda_atv_um0030212_686.pdf)

mcleod
03-25-2008, 03:22 PM
im not very impress... since it's have a huge bore compared to 450R and it's have EFI for this lil' hp gain :(

07trx400ex
03-25-2008, 04:45 PM
Heres a list of some comparable hp numbers.
It's laying down the hammer if you ask me.

08 250ex: 16.8hp
08 300ex: 22.1hp
08 400ex: 34.2hp
08 450r: 42.6hp
08 700XX: 53hp
08 KFX450r:42.1
08 KFX700:48.8
08 Z400: 36.6hp
08 Ltr450: 41.6hp
08 Raptor 250: 18.8
08 YFZ450: 38.6hp
08 Raptor700r: 46.9hp

Remarkably, it is making at least 10.4 more hp than any 450 and 7.1 more hp than than Raptor 700r while a modest 4.5hp more than the automatic KFX700 with the mighty V-Twin.

The numbers of from the California Environmental Protection Agency.

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/ofhrv/ofmcatv_comply/2008/2008.php)

03-28-2008, 06:54 PM
I assume all these numbers are at the crank. They are too high to be at the wheels. Still its beast... its a Honda... and it IS better than the other big bore models out there. I think if it lost the IRS more would become attracted to it.

reconranger
03-28-2008, 09:47 PM
This engine should be all about rev, similar to the 450's! It is unlikely to be a torquer, seeing it has a little slipper piston with low reciprocating weight.

Horsepower doesn't mean much if it isn't accompanied by the torque curve!!!

blbraptor
03-29-2008, 12:18 AM
Well you are certainly on to something there recon if what I have heard is true. Apparently the XX's engine is "sluggish" and stalls very easily when you bog it down. If this is true, this is not going to be the great trail quad that it was intended to be. Very disappointing if you ask me. I guess we'll see pretty soon as they should be on the floor next week and the magazine guys have already had them.

#17YFZRACER
03-30-2008, 07:36 PM
08 250ex: 16.8hp
08 300ex: 22.1hp
08 400ex: 34.2hp
08 450r: 42.6hp
08 700XX: 53hp
08 KFX450r:42.1
08 KFX700:48.8
08 Z400: 36.6hp
08 Ltr450: 41.6hp
08 Raptor 250: 18.8
08 YFZ450: 38.6hp
08 Raptor700r: 46.9hp
:huh :huh :huh :huh :huh :huh :huh :huh

the yfz makes more than 38.6 and the raptor doesnt make 46.9 stock. but seriously 38.6 YFZ...come on:huh

07trx400ex
03-30-2008, 08:08 PM
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/ofhrv/ofmcatv_comply/2008/2008.php

Look it up for yourself man. please back your answers up with a little more than "come on"

These numbers are from the .gov link above.

If you know the engines displacement and can convert then kw(assuming you can do that) to hp then that is all the verification you need.

You must become a victim of the common perception that hp is the ONLY variable involved in a vehicles performance.

come on

mcleod
04-01-2008, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by 07trx400ex
Look it up for yourself man. please back your answers up with a little more than "come on"



http://www.gtthunder.com/sitebuilder/images/trx450rdynorpm-650x487.jpg

41.2 hp here for yfz...

so your number isnt that goods... hehe

Blue = YFZ
Red = TRX

both 2005 if i remember

#17YFZRACER
04-02-2008, 09:26 AM
41.2 hp here for yfz...

so your number isnt that goods... hehe


thanks


ill find an 06+ dyno sheet and it will be even better than 41.2 not that 439cc

07trx400ex
04-02-2008, 02:56 PM
I don't want to get started on the differences in dyno's. I see it has Laz's name on it, but anyone can whip one of those up in five minutes. I am not trying to bash anyone's ride.

I posted results from a non-biased third party hoping it would be a good reference point. If you have a problem with your yfz's numbers maybe you should contact the California Environmental Protection Agency.

Heres their number: (800) 242-4450

UNBROKEN
04-03-2008, 08:50 PM
yea those numbers seem off the 400ex makes 25 stock not 34

07trx400ex
04-03-2008, 09:25 PM
Typically a street bike will lose 15% at the wheels so it should be even more with increased reciprocating mass on a quad.

hotrodhonda400
04-05-2008, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by UNBROKEN
yea those numbers seem off the 400ex makes 25 stock not 34 it makes 34 at the crank and 29-30 to the rear wheels....

RATPACK Z400
04-08-2008, 07:59 PM
It may have more HPs than other quads BUT the weight will be an issue it weights 508 pds the 450s are around 360 pds thats a big difference 10hps wont be able to over come ! And when it is tested Im sure its going to have the same problem the can-am had it cant be ridden as fast as the others cause it will buck you off on rough terrain.

Def-e-nition
04-08-2008, 09:06 PM
Atv riders have already Tested it , and walked away impressed by it . Frankly I am surprised that the tester commented it to be one of the fastest Stock quads out there , as I too noticed the 500 Pounder weighing in ...

Finally , we have a 700 in our midst with wings . It aint perfect , but it aint bad either .
As to the Looks - errmmm.... Look , I'm not pretty either , but I Know how to get the job Done . That front sweep from the fenders around the Radiator is ummm.. Interesting .

I am so glad this motor is Not the same one that comes out in the 700cc TransAlp Enduro. slow , sluggish , lethargic .Not my first choice .

TRX450R014
04-09-2008, 09:47 AM
The 508 lbs is the curb weight....I guess Honda is going to start listing their weights differently now.
Weights are normally listed as "dry weights"...no fluids,etc.

Once you add all the fluids most 450s are close to 400lbs....some are even more.

Sick0
04-10-2008, 10:14 PM
I also remember the factory saying the Z-400 was going to be over 40hp stock....
and back when the 400ex came out, it was reported to be as over 40hp.... dont beleive the hype...

At the radar run around here, the honda's were quit a bit slower the my yfz and a friends raptor ( about 7mph). quads were equally set up. n
Everbody was surprised the '08 450r was 7mhp slower than a my '06 yfz that had 3yrs of with out never being rebuilt.
so its hard for me, its hard to see how the 450r has 6 more yfz...

slomofo
04-15-2008, 10:44 PM
i wonder what type of easy and inexpensive electronic bolt-ons there will be, kinda like the cherry bomb for the LT-R.
the reason i ask is the LT-R makes 49.1hp at the rear tires with a cherry bomb, airbox lid off, and spark arrestor pulled from the stock pipe. if the honda can't do the same, why waste the time for all that extra weight.

black_450
04-17-2008, 10:46 PM
well guys i have rode the new 700 around the parking lot cause i work for the local honda dealership here and it does have some power-no doubt. It just didnt seem to have the power of my 450 but it does do wheelies on demand which i was suprised it did so easy but i didnt like the suspension either when i turned it feels real top heavy with the IRS but it should definately make for a fun trail four wheeler and the reverse is real nice as well.

RATPACK Z400
04-18-2008, 08:21 AM
We all have heard these statements before with EVERY quad thats come out from the all the mags and BS reports & reviews until someone in the realworld or not diehard or paid hondalover rides it we,ll half to wait for a real review on it.every quad that comes out is the best they NEVER tell you its junk,or how its rides bad, its always something to get you to buy it,then it never lives up to the hype.

hungus07trx400
04-18-2008, 08:55 AM
I agree. Its like going to a restaraunt and asking the waiter "How's the Veal"? Of course they're going to say its the best, because if they told you to just eat it on the toilet with the plate in your lap to save yourself the trouble of running to the restroom, you probably wouldn't order it.

maddmatt02
04-22-2008, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by slomofo
i wonder what type of easy and inexpensive electronic bolt-ons there will be, kinda like the cherry bomb for the LT-R.
the reason i ask is the LT-R makes 49.1hp at the rear tires with a cherry bomb, airbox lid off, and spark arrestor pulled from the stock pipe. if the honda can't do the same, why waste the time for all that extra weight.


I really dont see a LTR with cherry bomb, spark arrestor pulled from stock exhaust and no lid pulling almost 50 HP at the wheels....

when it takes the other 450's at least a full system, K&N, no lid, PCIII just to be in the mid-high 40's, and some even need a cam and bumped cr...

I cant say 100% it isnt happening because I dont have the money to buy that stuff and then go get it dyno's, but it sounds very unlikely. or the dyno took into account parasitic loss or whatever its called and gave you an estimated crank HP number.

Jonas
05-05-2008, 12:34 PM
I feel like I should have just let this thread go away but I couldn't quite leave it. Why don't some people take the time to read? The guy started out with saying the bike is 'listed' as 53 horse from the CRANK and there a bunch of comments after about how it couldn't have 53 horse 'from the rear wheels.'

First of all, I'm sure these horsepower numbers were submitted to the board by the manufacturer. The board does not likely have a device on hand that measures crank horsepower so take them for what they are (just a submission and not a dyno horsepower shootout.) The numbers don't seem that far off for crank numbers (let's say just for fun that they there is a 5 horse +/-, 48 horse from the crank for the new Honda would not be that bad.) Who's know exactly how far off because there are not many people out measuring crank horsepower to compare.

Next, I am not sure why we are comparing a LTR or any 450 with this quad being that it is designed for a totally different weight/performance/terrane class. When are people going to understand that is quad is not built to compete against a TRX450R??

This quad very likely has 53 or so horse at the CRANK. That makes perfect sense to me. If it's curve weight is 100+ more pounds than a 450 for instance then it will have to have 10-15 more horsepower, ROUGHTLY, to stay anywhere near in a drag.

Bottom line is that if you are happy with the 450's out like I am, but would like to see some imrovements then just wait for the coming years and they will improve them off the showroom floor. You could also just buy one and improve it to your liking with aftermarket parts. Why wait for Honda to come out with a sport quad with more power stock and great suspension stock with 1-2K higher price tag when you can just add those mods yourself NOW??

Honda is making progress in the 4-stroke sport catagory despite what some say. If they weren't, then all us 450 riders would still be riding our 92 TRX250X's with horsepower in the teens and 1992 styling. I think that this machine will please alot of people out there that are looking for what it offers. It is not for me, but will definately make many others out there smile.

dynofox
08-03-2008, 08:49 AM
What does the KTM 525 make for hp, isn't it around 55hp? Why are you guys buying the 700xx over the 525 IRS outlaw, not a bash, just curious? The outlaw is a lot lighter, produces similar if not more power and has a better handling chassis (as per atv sport).

vtt
08-12-2008, 07:44 PM
You are 100% right and that's exactly what I did and I'm totally satisfied with my Outlaw. Further more, I support our economy.

08-12-2008, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by dynofox
What does the KTM 525 make for hp, isn't it around 55hp? Why are you guys buying the 700xx over the 525 IRS outlaw, not a bash, just curious? The outlaw is a lot lighter, produces similar if not more power and has a better handling chassis (as per atv sport).

maybe because the 700xx is cheaper and could be a nice ride if you took that money you saved and put it into other things. I compared the KTM450SX version and a 2008 TRX450R. Its is much cheaper to buy and build up the Honda than buy the KTM. I priced it all out and made everything the KTM had, the Honda had and there was still so much money to play around with you could have bought a full system exhaust and such making it faster than the KTM.

dynofox
08-12-2008, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
maybe because the 700xx is cheaper and could be a nice ride if you took that money you saved and put it into other things. I compared the KTM450SX version and a 2008 TRX450R. Its is much cheaper to buy and build up the Honda than buy the KTM. I priced it all out and made everything the KTM had, the Honda had and there was still so much money to play around with you could have bought a full system exhaust and such making it faster than the KTM.

I'm talking about the Polaris Outlaw IRS which uses the KTM 525 motor, not the actual KTM quads. The comparison here is between both IRS sport quads. The Outlaw is actually about $500 cheaper than the Honda.

08-12-2008, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by dynofox
I'm talking about the Polaris Outlaw IRS which uses the KTM 525 motor, not the actual KTM quads. The comparison here is between both IRS sport quads. The Outlaw is actually about $500 cheaper than the Honda.

whats your best price OTD (out the door price) for the Outlaw IRS? I have the best price for the 700xx OTD $6,999 brand new. I have already seen 1 for sale used at a dealer lol

dynofox
08-13-2008, 06:28 AM
Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
whats your best price OTD (out the door price) for the Outlaw IRS? I have the best price for the 700xx OTD $6,999 brand new. I have already seen 1 for sale used at a dealer lol

Without having the numbers in front of me its hard to say an exact OTD price but I'm sure it could be right in that ball park, most likely cheaper with the rebates Polaris has right now on the '08's. Comparing OTD prices over the internet is hard because everyone pays a different sales tax / registration fee which when your talking about $7000 turns into quite a bit of money.

04hemiboy
08-13-2008, 02:18 PM
I could only wish for $7000.00 bikes. That's super cheap.

plumbum
08-13-2008, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by 04hemiboy
I could only wish for $7000.00 bikes. That's super cheap.

no kidding.lol. mine was $11000 after taxes and all that jazz

scuzz
08-13-2008, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by 04hemiboy
I could only wish for $7000.00 bikes. That's super cheap.


Meh a small price to pay for a better (and more affordable) health care system. :)

plumbum
08-13-2008, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by scuzz
Meh a small price to pay for a better (and more affordable) health care system. :)

sort of. we dont pay for the care but we have long waits,

08-13-2008, 10:40 PM
holy cow you guys paid a lot for those. last i checked there was no tax on that but florida just made it so when you come back into the state you have to pay the tax on it when you register. A couple years ago it was weird there wasnt any tax buying the stuff in tennesee and bringing them back to florida.

Backstabber
02-18-2009, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
whats your best price OTD (out the door price) for the Outlaw IRS? I have the best price for the 700xx OTD $6,999 brand new. I have already seen 1 for sale used at a dealer lol
I just bought mine for $6300 OTD brand new in kenosha at ace power sports, that includes tax, title and liscense!!!:devil:

deathcorefan2
02-21-2009, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by dynofox
What does the KTM 525 make for hp, isn't it around 55hp? Why are you guys buying the 700xx over the 525 IRS outlaw, not a bash, just curious? The outlaw is a lot lighter, produces similar if not more power and has a better handling chassis (as per atv sport).

haha i was thinking the same thing :D

where is the outlaw hp and KTM hp lol

maddmatt02
02-21-2009, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by deathcorefan2
haha i was thinking the same thing :D

where is the outlaw hp and KTM hp lol

even if the honda does have 53, and the ktm does have 55 does NOT mean that the ktm is more powerful. sure at 9k ir might make more peak hp, but looking at the torque curve of both, that honda probably has alot more usable power down low than the ktm. I personally like the high strung design where all the power is in the high rpm's but thats not really the point of a big bore quad, is it.

Backstabber
02-22-2009, 08:29 PM
If anyone has a link to where you can find this information I'd like to take a peek. I want to see some actual dyno charts and find out what the top speed is of this quad. One guy posted he topped out at 83mph...That is laughable. I know my quad doesn't do 83mph. Maybe high 60's or 70mph.:devil:

scuzz
02-22-2009, 08:52 PM
I did 68 (at first i mis-typed "86") with GPS verifying on soft river sand. That was bone stock though and 265 pounds on lard-assed me on it.

Backstabber
02-22-2009, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by scuzz
I did 68 (at first i mis-typed "86") with GPS verifying on soft river sand. That was bone stock though and 265 pounds on lard-assed me on it.
LOL, you're harsh on yourself but I can respect that. Thank you for the info. 68mph on sand is pretty damn sick and you're (no offense) a big fellow. I'm weighing in at 161 lbs. soaking wet, I ride with a stock Raptor 700R and one built with everything including motor work. I'm wondering how I'll size up stock to stock with the raptor. I hate waiting for spring!!! Haha:devil:

maddmatt02
02-22-2009, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by Backstabber
If anyone has a link to where you can find this information I'd like to take a peek. I want to see some actual dyno charts and find out what the top speed is of this quad. One guy posted he topped out at 83mph...That is laughable. I know my quad doesn't do 83mph. Maybe high 60's or 70mph.:devil:

you pulling the limiter? only way I could see that thing being stuck down in the 60's would be if it was geared so low it just couldnt do any more. or you were a big dude. a 450 from 04 can pull 74 stock.

and if a 250 lb dude in sand can get 68, you should be in the 70's easy. not sure about 83, i bet if you blow the tires up good, and get on asphalt you might hit it depending on gearing.

Backstabber
02-22-2009, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by maddmatt02
you pulling the limiter? only way I could see that thing being stuck down in the 60's would be if it was geared so low it just couldnt do any more. or you were a big dude. a 450 from 04 can pull 74 stock.

and if a 250 lb dude in sand can get 68, you should be in the 70's easy. not sure about 83, i bet if you blow the tires up good, and get on asphalt you might hit it depending on gearing.
I hear ya, I'm just talking bone stock. I'm going to wait for my warranty to finish up in 6 months before I touch any aftermarket parts. I'm looking for ideas with the machine in stock form. I think you're right though, I'm sure I could hit at least 70mph. I drove home pulled it off my truck and jumped right into mud and jumps with it, haha.:devil:

scuzz
02-23-2009, 07:19 AM
You do know that a filter, programmer and slip on will not void your warranty right?

I bought the extended 5 year warranty and made sure that I asked that SPECIFICALLY when I bought my 700xx.

Backstabber
02-23-2009, 07:22 AM
Originally posted by scuzz
You do know that a filter, programmer and slip on will not void your warranty right?

I bought the extended 5 year warranty and made sure that I asked that SPECIFICALLY when I bought my 700xx.
What?!?!?! Are you sure? If anything I thought a filter and programmer would for sure void it. Are there any links that disuss the warranty in detail. Maybe honda's website has something. I'd like to see that with my own eyes, if its true then thats badass.:devil:

scuzz
02-23-2009, 08:05 AM
Originally posted by Backstabber
What?!?!?! Are you sure? If anything I thought a filter and programmer would for sure void it. Are there any links that disuss the warranty in detail. Maybe honda's website has something. I'd like to see that with my own eyes, if its true then thats badass.:devil:


Honda's website doesn't tell you what will void your warranty, only what it is.

Call your dealer and see. My dealer was Al Lamb in Dallas.

maddmatt02
02-23-2009, 09:07 AM
I think I remember reading something (not sure where this guy his proof though) that if your bike breaks down, in order for them to not cover you they have to prove that it was your aftermarket part that caused the failure.

but with the airbox/filter. if you dont have to mod the box at all to install the new filter, then do so and keep your stock one. and if you have to take it in put the stocker back on. same with the pipe, if youre real worried swap back to stock if you have a problem. now with the ecu, not sure if its setup to recall any changes that were made to it. but I think those efi controllers change the specs after the ecu and not before it, so maybe the ecu wouldnt know a thing even if it was set to remember changes.

Backstabber
02-23-2009, 01:14 PM
http://trx700xx.net/forum/index.php?topic=50.0
This guy ran the xx on a dyno and put down 46WHP! So 53CHP is most likely true. Awesome!
My friend and I lined in front of his house today at the bottom of a hill to get a rough idea on how the XX sizes up. The raptor has a high compression, stock bore piston with stage 1 hot cam, intake, jet kit, and exhaust. My xx is booooone stock and not broken in so I was short shifting. I beat him out of the hole every time, not sure what he was doing. Both of us were having issues keeping the front tires down, haha. After about a 100 ft. I was two lengths ahead of him and he wasn't catching up. Once I'm comfortable with motor breaking in I'll really let the motor do its thing but till then I'm short shifting. Anyways, I know his raptor is fast and the XX definitely held its own today. He and I were both impressed!:devil:

maddmatt02
02-23-2009, 02:56 PM
it is pretty weird you pulled him out of the hole when he has a high cr piston and a stage 1 cam. he should have alot of low end. not because I want the raptor to be quicker, Im a honda guy and really dont like raptors. 660 at least never ridden a 700 so cant comment on those, but if its anything like the 660 I dont want to.

Im sure you arent ready to get off your bike yet but if so did you guys switch bikes and race a couple more times. thats how we raced the yfz and 460 to compare, since we switched and made a couple more back to back runs we knew it was the bikes and not us.

Backstabber
02-23-2009, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by maddmatt02
it is pretty weird you pulled him out of the hole when he has a high cr piston and a stage 1 cam. he should have alot of low end. not because I want the raptor to be quicker, Im a honda guy and really dont like raptors. 660 at least never ridden a 700 so cant comment on those, but if its anything like the 660 I dont want to.

Im sure you arent ready to get off your bike yet but if so did you guys switch bikes and race a couple more times. thats how we raced the yfz and 460 to compare, since we switched and made a couple more back to back runs we knew it was the bikes and not us.
We actually did not switch. He was having troubles with keeping the bike from flipping over on him. I was doing a lil' bit more feathering with the clutch. I've ridden his 660 and I absolutely hated it, LOL. So I'm in the same boat as you but I have also ridden a 700R and it is a nicer quad than the 660 but the Honda I truly love. My last quad was a honda which is why I went with the XX over the outlaw. Next time we're out I'll do the trade off to see if its just me being the better drag racer. He might have been all spun up about racing the new XX and was giving it too much gas. I had to laugh when I looked back while in third gear and he had the front end coasting a foot off the ground. Our first race we started in 1st gear and our second we stared in 2nd. He used the excuse that my tires are newer, LOL. I told him we were in asphalt not dirt...Ha:devil:

JJ69
02-24-2009, 05:50 PM
my xx hit 80MPH on sunday. i was side by side with a polaris indy for several miles right at 80 mph.

OTD my price was $5500 canadian. but i bought mine with 3 months use :)

maddmatt02
02-24-2009, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by JJ69
my xx hit 80MPH on sunday. i was side by side with a polaris indy for several miles right at 80 mph.

OTD my price was $5500 canadian. but i bought mine with 3 months use :)

I used to know what 5500 canadian was years ago, whats it like now.

04hemiboy
02-24-2009, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by maddmatt02
I used to know what 5500 canadian was years ago, whats it like now.

Around $4500ish U$

Which is a smoking deal since I paid $12000.00 new OTD.

JJ69
02-25-2009, 06:11 AM
yeah it was on kijiji for 10 minutes when i bought it lol.

its all stock with the arrestor removed, and i'm 200lbs. once this -20 weather goes away i'll take my gps on it and get a precise speed. i've been told 83 is possible

Backstabber
02-25-2009, 06:20 AM
Originally posted by JJ69
yeah it was on kijiji for 10 minutes when i bought it lol.

its all stock with the arrestor removed, and i'm 200lbs. once this -20 weather goes away i'll take my gps on it and get a precise speed. i've been told 83 is possible
83mph sounds excessive, I would imagine it would go around 70mph but I keep hearing people say near 80mph. Let us know how that goes, I'm curious to see what this monster does.:devil:

Backstabber
02-25-2009, 06:22 AM
Originally posted by 04hemiboy
Around $4500ish U$

Which is a smoking deal since I paid $12000.00 new OTD.
Damn! Thats an amazing price. I paid $6300 OTD with tax, title, liscense included for my quad new. I just bought a helmet cam, can't wait to post some vids.:devil:

scuzz
02-25-2009, 08:22 AM
Keep in mind he and I bought ours before the recession was called a recession and it was also when these were 1st released.

(sigh)

maddmatt02
02-25-2009, 08:54 AM
damn, last time I was in canada was when 5500 would have been just over 3300.

good thing the peso is still just as weak or more now as it was then since I go to mexico instead these days.

04hemiboy
02-25-2009, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by Backstabber
83mph sounds excessive, I would imagine it would go around 70mph but I keep hearing people say near 80mph. Let us know how that goes, I'm curious to see what this monster does.:devil:

I'm "gpsing" over 80 consistently. The top end of this machine just don't quit. This is on a fairly crisp day on asphalt. I'm also below sealevel which makes for faster times.

Backstabber
02-25-2009, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by 04hemiboy
I'm "gpsing" over 80 consistently. The top end of this machine just don't quit. This is on a fairly crisp day on asphalt. I'm also below sealevel which makes for faster times.
WOW:eek2: , thanks for the input! Thats sick! :devil: