Outlaw 525 Jetting poll

[ojcool]

If you have this bike and have jetted it would you be so kind as to post up your mods, jets, needle settings, pilot, slow screw settings and elevation? I'm just trying to get a feel where everyone else is since I'm pretty much starting from scratch now.

Please use the following format:

Exhaust- Stock with baffles removed
Airbox- Modified lid with Unifilter
Any other modifications that would affect jetting

Elevation- 187'
Main Jet- 160
Pilot- Stock (45?)
Airscrew- 2 turns out



Did I read that people are having problems with the Pro Motion aftermarket airscrews? Cause I have one. What exactly is the problem?


Best Regards,
Stu

[Evasiveone]

There have been multiple people with problems when running any of the aftermarket airscrews.

Exhaust- Full CT Sonic
Airbox- No lid, ProDesign K&N
Elevation- 800'
Main Jet- 172
Airscrew-2 turns out

JD Jet kit with the big o-ring and blue needle 3rd clip.
Pilot, slow jet stock. Stock plugged leak jet.
AP timing .100"

[OutlawBill]

Exhaust- Duncan
Air box, EHS lid, Pro design K&N filter
Elevation 0' too 800'
main Jet 168 JD
JD Blue needle 3rd clip
Pilot 48 air 80 (a little rich)
Air screw 1.5 turns out, KTM's
R&D Power Shot set for 40 leak jet
R&D AP springs
AP timing .100"
Scary Fast Power Now and Power Now+


Works for me starts easy no bogs

[SSJEFF]

Alba Exhaust
Prodesign K&N filter with DIY Outerwares lid
JD jet kit
175 main might go back to 172
Needle 3rd from top blue needle, might richen it up when I lean main out
Big oring
plug in the leak jet
set my AP timing to around .110"
Don't know were my adjustable screw from KTM hard parts is at

runs descent with no stumble

Update
165, red needle on the 2nd from top.

[ojcool]

would you please define "plug in the leak jet" I'm not familiar with that term. Thanks.

And you guys are mentioning two different values for the pilot jet can you explain how that works. I'm used to a Banshee where the pilot is just the pilot jet.

At 187' I'm thinking I'll go back to the 170 main, originally when I had that in everyone was saying I was way too rich, now it seems allot of guys are settling on the 165+ range of main jets.

I have the JD jetting kit if that matters. I'm running the red needle right now, should I go back to the blue needle? It's still a little cold but usually the weather is 65-80 degrees in spring summer around good old Virginia.

Thanks for the input!

[LT250_JOE]

Exhaust- Stock w/baffle (for now)
Air box-Lid on, K&N filter
JD 162 main jet
JD Blue needle 3rd clip
JD Big O-ring (increases accel pump speed)
JD Accel pump diaphragm (reduces accel pump volume)
Air screw 2 turns out

[bossman525]

stock exhaust baffle in
ehs racing lid with k&n filter
jd jet kit
165 main jet
red needle at 4th clip position (i just took out my blue needle, temp's have been in low 60's here)
stock pilot jet
big o-ring
and i have a aftermarket air screw, got it from polaris dealer, i haven't had a problem what so ever with it.
air screw 1 and 3/4 turns
haven't touched the slow leak jet
elavation is about the same as you ojcool

[Evasiveone]

Originally posted by ojcool
would you please define "plug in the leak jet" I'm not familiar with that term. Thanks.

And you guys are mentioning two different values for the pilot jet can you explain how that works. I'm used to a Banshee where the pilot is just the pilot jet.

At 187' I'm thinking I'll go back to the 170 main, originally when I had that in everyone was saying I was way too rich, now it seems allot of guys are settling on the 165+ range of main jets.

I have the JD jetting kit if that matters. I'm running the red needle right now, should I go back to the blue needle? It's still a little cold but usually the weather is 65-80 degrees in spring summer around good old Virginia.

Thanks for the input!

The Outlaw comes with the Leak jet plugged. Some machines with the FCR carb like the YFZ and KTM have a leak jet that lets some fuel back into the carb instead of being pumped into the carb by the accelerator pump. A leak jet will shorten the time and amount of fuel sprayed by the AC pump when opening up the throttle.

The 2 pilots bill mentioned are the main pilot jet (48) and the slow air pilot jet (80). The slow air pilot jet can be accessed through the throttle body on the intake side.

[sleddog66]

Evasiveone, I'm curious too, you and bill are now running blue needles. Is this just for the winter, or did your exhaust mods require enough extra fuel to need the blue needle, even in the summer? I just seem to remember everyone running red in the summer. Thanks in advance for your reply.

[ojcool]

Originally posted by Evasiveone
The Outlaw comes with the Leak jet plugged. Some machines with the FCR carb like the YFZ and KTM have a leak jet that lets some fuel back into the carb instead of being pumped into the carb by the accelerator pump. A leak jet will shorten the time and amount of fuel sprayed by the AC pump when opening up the throttle.

The 2 pilots bill mentioned are the main pilot jet (48) and the slow air pilot jet (80). The slow air pilot jet can be accessed through the throttle body on the intake side.

Ok, so the leak jet is just an adjustable bleed that lets the fuel in the accelerator pump slowly empty out an back into the fuel bowl? I assume it's adjustable or is it either open or plugged?
So if there are essentially two pilot jets I assume the primary one (48) affects the idle and lower rpms and the slow air jet (80) affects the a/f before the needle becomes more involved? Does the air screw affect both the (48) and the (80) or just one? Is one considered to be leaner than the other with the factory setup?

[sleddog66]

oj, go to thumperfaq.com. they have some great write ups on the FCR. How thing work, and it is very informative. Check it out, and hope it will answer some of your questions, (and then some).

[Evasiveone]

When I had the stock exhaust with just the baffle pulled I ran the red needle on the 4th clip. When I went to the full CT exhaust I tried many different options and the blue needle worked the best so far. It has been in the 50-70 degree range here. My plug is on the black side, but it runs so good right now I am going to leave it. Rather have it a little rich than lean. Once the temperature hits the 70-90's I am going to drop to a 170 main and probably continue to run the blue needle.

[SSJEFF]

Keihin Tuning With Keihin setup 101 and AP 101 from KTMtalk:

http://www.predatorowners.com/index.cfm?action=thread&catid=99&topid=574&thrid=47400

[LT250_JOE]

Originally posted by sleddog66
Evasiveone, I'm curious too, you and bill are now running blue needles. Is this just for the winter, or did your exhaust mods require enough extra fuel to need the blue needle, even in the summer? I just seem to remember everyone running red in the summer. Thanks in advance for your reply.


BLUE needle: low altitude/ cool temperatures
RED needle: high altitude/ high temperatures

[SSJEFF]

I am also running the blue needle. I forgot to list it and edited it yesterday. I had the red in with the stock exhaust. Went to the blue since it ran very badly with the alba and the red needle.

I would have to get my JD instrustions out but I believe it says the red is for 80' and above.

[ojcool]

I originally ran the blue needle but switched to the red when everyone said it was better. However the JD instructions said some higher flowing exhausts could require the use of the blue needle all the time.


UPDATE: I finished finally doing the valve adjustment today. I had never done it and if memory serves it is required after the first 10 hours of operation. The quad prob has about 10 hours on it now. Anyway, I found quickly that every valve was adjusted way too tight. There was no lash on any of them whatsoever. I imagine that is typical from the factory for break in purposes. Well, after putting it all back together I found that on initial start up the idle was about 200 rpm's faster and the bike runs about 80% better. I am very glad I took the time to do it today and I'm thinking this had a major impact on my problems from the beginning. So for any new Outlaw 525 owners out there.
1) Check your air screw for proper o ring installation
2) adjust your valves as soon as practical
Listen to these guys everything they have said I have found in the end to be true in respect to jetting.
Of course my situation was different due to these mechanical problems so everything I tried to do to correct jetting was useless. I do think that my current jetting of 165 main is too lean and I will be going back to at least a 170 main I think.
No air lid
Uni Filter
stock pilot
Modified stock exhaust (interior muffler baffle removed, outlet baffle removed)

[SSJEFF]

I guess I could have posted this also to help with the valve adjustment:

http://www.predatorowners.com/index.cfm?action=thread&catid=99&topid=574&thrid=46349

[ojcool]

Originally posted by SSJEFF
I guess I could have posted this also to help with the valve adjustment:

http://www.predatorowners.com/index.cfm?action=thread&catid=99&topid=574&thrid=46349
Yeah, thats the method I used. Was significantly easier than I thought.

[sheriff525]

So what is the difference between the Red and Blue. I know red is for high altitude and temp and blue is for low alt and temp. But physically what is the difference.

I am brand new to this jetting thing. While i was at Little sahara last weekend my brother ran the red needle 5th from the top and a 160 main with big o ring.
I ran the blue needle at 3 from the top and 160 main. I felt like i had more lower to mid power. It didn't feel much different from stock but it ran good. Everyone else keeps saying that the jet kit makes the bike a night and day difference. I am at 3400-4200 feet now and i need help figuring the best set up?

Also what is AP and how do i adjust it? Sounds like it could help make my bike run better.

[SSJEFF]

AP = accelerator pump
WOT = wide open throttle

the kiehin is wierd cause the needle never comes completely out of the main jet. So you could have different setups that work

As far as the difference between the needles, it is the taper. Kiehin makes lots of different needles for the FCR carb. JD has 2 in their kit. Without some way of telling what the air fuel mixture is, you are shooting in the dark. You could pull the plug and tell the average but it could be lean or rich in a spot.

You can adjust the AP amount of squirt, when it starts , and how long it lasts. the leak jet bleeds off the amount of fuel surit and changes the timing.

read this and it may help
http://www.predatorowners.com/index.cfm?action=thread&catid=99&topid=574&thrid=47400

I have read and jetted before and spent about 4 hours on mine the other day only to come back to the origional setup. 165 red 2 or 3 from top.



Originally posted by sheriff525
So what is the difference between the Red and Blue. I know red is for high altitude and temp and blue is for low alt and temp. But physically what is the difference.

I am brand new to this jetting thing. While i was at Little sahara last weekend my brother ran the red needle 5th from the top and a 160 main with big o ring.
I ran the blue needle at 3 from the top and 160 main. I felt like i had more lower to mid power. It didn't feel much different from stock but it ran good. Everyone else keeps saying that the jet kit makes the bike a night and day difference. I am at 3400-4200 feet now and i need help figuring the best set up?

Also what is AP and how do i adjust it? Sounds like it could help make my bike run better.

[TheOutlaw]

Is my logic on the needles correct? The closer to the top you put the clip the deeper the needle sits which will restrict and cause a leaner mixture?

[eerhard09]

Yes, that is correct!

[Evasiveone]

Well the temperature has been increasing and I have rejetted for the warmer temperatures. Several people have now had there 525's dyno tuned and they are all coming in prettly close to a 165 main and the red needle on the 4th clip. So I tried that at my last race and have to say I was pretty impressed.

Exhaust- Full CT Sonic
Airbox- No lid, ProDesign K&N
Elevation- 800'
Main Jet- 165
Airscrew-2 turns out

JD Jet kit with the big o-ring and red needle 4th clip.
Pilot, slow jet stock. Stock plugged leak jet.
AP timing .100"

[rgasper33]

When you guys say like 4th clip is that from the top of needle or bottom. I am new to this jetting thing. And also what effect does this have. throttle response??? and also to richen/lean out your quad with the air fuel mixture screw what way do you go. Thanks

[Evasiveone]

When they say "4th clip" it is counting down from the top (blunt end of the needle to the sharp end). What this does is when the throttle is under 1/4 the clip holds the needle up out of the main jet resulting in a richer setting.

[sheriff525]

I need some help! How do I adjust the Accelerator pump. I know what it is now and what it does. I think that i want to adjust it down to .110. How do i do it? I also have the big o-ring on too!
I am going to change my jetting tonight to 160 main red needle 4th clip at 3200-4000 ft.

We will see....please help me with the AP!

[ojcool]

What makes you feel that you should change the AP timing?

[OutlawBill]

Originally posted by sheriff525
I need some help! How do I adjust the Accelerator pump. I know what it is now and what it does. I think that i want to adjust it down to .110. How do i do it? I also have the big o-ring on too!
I am going to change my jetting tonight to 160 main red needle 4th clip at 3200-4000 ft.

We will see....please help me with the AP!

http://www.pbase.com/jdjetting1/image/50507859

[TheDeltaHammer]

exhaust- FMF Factory 4.1 slip on
Airbox- stock with 4 1'' holes in lid

Elevation- 1100' about
Main Jet- 138 dyna jets
Pilot- Stock (45?)
Airscrew- 2 turns out
needle eclip is on second one down from top. thing runs perfect but going to try a 142 dyna jet main seemed to get more power from it...