Just switched to E85

[TRXRacer1]

After a weekend of boredom and internet reading I placed and order with JetsRus and started operation E85. Running E85 has been done already but not by many so research reading was very minimal for performance aplications. I did learn a couple solid facts though.

E85 is high octane

Ethanol is not nearly as corrosive as Alcohol

There are cheap power gains to be had

And your engine will be quite thirsty

With my 10:1 416, stage 1 HC, Uni-style filter (lid on), PC slip-on and head pipe mod I was running

155 main

40 pilot

stock mixture screw setting

and 3rd clip from the top on a 7 position Dynojet needle

From what I was reading about quads, bikes and drag cars I figured I would need about

200 main

52 pilot

stock mix setting

2nd clip from the bottom on the needle

To be safe I ordered a few sizes up and down from 200 from JetsRus and the 52 pilot. Shockingly I ordered Sunday and got the jets Wednesday! For a starting point I tuned the carb as listed above and drained out the gas. Tonight I got some E85 and went for a test spin.

First run I could tell immediatly that the top and bottom was rich. I was getting a fluttering on the top end and the bottom end seemed like it was on the edge. Without further testing I dropped the main to a 192. It ran better but still had a little flutter so I pulled the air box lid off leaning the mix out and it ran perfect! I put the lid back on and changed the main one more time to a 185 and from the 5 minutes I ran around it felt great. The mid responded perfect too so I did not change the needle setting.

Power wise it felt slightly stronger and after I ran it for a while the cylinder was as cool as it has ever been. My neighbor has a 48 pilot jet that he's going to trade me for my 52 and I'm 100% confident that it will finish the bottom end.

So now, from what I can tell, these are the settings that are going to make my machine run perfect on E85

185 main

48 pilot

slightly leaner then stock mix setting

and 2nd clip from the bottom on the Dynojet needle.

It will be a couple weeks until my next big ride but so far I think I might be hooked on E85. If it goes well I'll tune the rest of the fleet for it too.

[Pipeless416]

nice write up! i was wondering if it would cool the head down at all and i guess you answered that question for me. my only issue would be the trails in your state lol. i'm not sure where you would fill up in say... price county or hayward. we just rode from black river falls to rock dam yesterday, and the only fuel choice, unless you fill up at the bp in hatfield, brf, or the phillips 66 in milston, was 87 octane... no premium or e85.. thats what is scaring me away from switching over. how are you gonna get by that? can you carry gas with you? this is all assuming that you ride the trails there..

[TRXRacer1]

I do ride some of the trails in WI and you bring up a valid point. I am limiting myself to a limited fuel. As an aid for this there is a great website that helps locate stations that supply E85.

http://www.e85refueling.com/index.php

A couple times a year we take the super easy cruise on the Tri-County Trail and by using the search I see that Belmont has E85. We also ride the streets of Adams Friendship for Muddy 13 (pretty sweet event) and the search shows Adams has E85. I looked up Hatfield though and you're 100% right, there is nothing close out there.

More then half of our riding is in parks so most of the time we have our own fuel but I guess if I picked an area like Black River to ride it really doesn't take long to swap out jets. I think for now I'll just use my own machine for E85 and leave the rest on standard pump fuel. I guess if I get totally hooked I might have to get that IMS 4.3 gallon tank.

[boosted3g]

How i started tuning e85 was just increased my jet diameter by 15 percent and it was close enough to run well. I tweaked it a little bit and threw some more timing at it and it is definantly a noticable power increase. I had to go back to 50-50 with gas because it was very hard to start in cold weather but once summer gets close ill be back to 100% e85.

[REDRIDDER]

how much for E85 a gallon?

[REDRIDDER]

and what octane rating does this compare to example 87,91,93,110?

[TRXRacer1]

I paid $2.69 a gallon and it's about 105 octane. A lot cheaper then race fuel or even premium for that matter.

[REDRIDDER]

AND WERE WOULD I GET THIS? IM IN NEW YORK.

[REDRIDDER]

TRXRacer1
check your pm in a minute i have a question for you thanks.

[TRXRacer1]

PM checked ;)

You can use this web site to locate where E85 is sold around you:

http://www.e85refueling.com/index.php

[my88r]

Originally posted by TRXRacer1


http://www.e85refueling.com/index.php

the closet one for me is 75 miles away.:grr:

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by my88r
the closet one for me is 75 miles away.:grr: Yeah I saw that NY was hurting for E85 according to their list. It's bound to continue getting more popular in time.

[RaginRedneck]

Originally posted by TRXRacer1
I do ride some of the trails in WI and you bring up a valid point. I am limiting myself to a limited fuel. As an aid for this there is a great website that helps locate stations that supply E85.

http://www.e85refueling.com/index.php

A couple times a year we take the super easy cruise on the Tri-County Trail and by using the search I see that Belmont has E85. We also ride the streets of Adams Friendship for Muddy 13 (pretty sweet event) and the search shows Adams has E85. I looked up Hatfield though and you're 100% right, there is nothing close out there.

More then half of our riding is in parks so most of the time we have our own fuel but I guess if I picked an area like Black River to ride it really doesn't take long to swap out jets. I think for now I'll just use my own machine for E85 and leave the rest on standard pump fuel. I guess if I get totally hooked I might have to get that IMS 4.3 gallon tank.


TRXRacer1, If you really want to run that stuff strong and you are able to fill up in camp, you could always put a fuel cell in the back of your truck for the E85. Delta Box makes a bunch of different styles, including an L-shaped box that is designed to go behind a cross box that thing holds around a 100 gallons. Than you buy and electric pump that screws in(Part # DMA0010R I believe), wire it 12Volts, and you have a mobile gas station. I sell this things all the time in the construction business for guys that use off-road diesel in their equipment rather than the low sulfur on-road stuff most people are familiar with.

If you want more info let me know.

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by RaginRedneck
TRXRacer1, If you really want to run that stuff strong and you are able to fill up in camp, you could always put a fuel cell in the back of your truck for the E85. Delta Box makes a bunch of different styles, including an L-shaped box that is designed to go behind a cross box that thing holds around a 100 gallons. Than you buy and electric pump that screws in(Part # DMA0010R I believe), wire it 12Volts, and you have a mobile gas station. I sell this things all the time in the construction business for guys that use off-road diesel in their equipment rather than the low sulfur on-road stuff most people are familiar with.

If you want more info let me know. It's a good idea Ragin, we have 6 trucks at work outfitted with similar setups for fueling backhoes and skid loaders. It's a must have for some businesses. I think this year I'll be working with cans but if I get more people on board by next year I'll definitely be looking at a large cell.

[boosted3g]

You may want to watch how much you keep on hand. I have a vp 5 gallon plastic jug and it has gone 2 months before i used it all and had not bad effects. But it does degrade faster than gasoline and it can absorb water. I have been using methanol and e85 for years and have never had any fuel problems but to every rumor there has to be a slight bit of truth. I just watch where i store it, its under my workbench off the concrete floor.

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by boosted3g
You may want to watch how much you keep on hand. I have a vp 5 gallon plastic jug and it has gone 2 months before i used it all and had not bad effects. But it does degrade faster than gasoline and it can absorb water. I have been using methanol and e85 for years and have never had any fuel problems but to every rumor there has to be a slight bit of truth. I just watch where i store it, its under my workbench off the concrete floor. All good points and not only can it absorb water it will. You can use it as a drying agent for your gasoline vehicles. I currently have mine in a Vent-Less can, in the shade also under my work bench.

[boosted3g]

yeah keep it sealed, it sounds a little ghetto but when my 400 is in the garage i put a scratch awl in the fuel tank vent tube and top the tank off... i told you i was ghetto but it works.

[sideways]

E85 Refueling Locations

These stations are selling E85 or the product is coming soon.
Note: The maps on this site are automatically generated from Google maps. Inaccuracies are possible. Call the station for directions to confirm locations.


0 refueling station(s) within 100 mi. of Bellingham, MA






so much for that idea....

[firefighterjosh]

The bad thing with E85 it breaks down rubber and gives you worse gas mileage

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by firefighterjosh
The bad thing with E85 it breaks down rubber and gives you worse gas mileage You're one and one Josh.

You will NOT have to worry about your rubber breaking down like you would with other moonshine products. Ethanol is really not that bad and people have been testing it for years now.

You are correct about mileage. I'm sure that anyone who has read thus far has noticed that the jetting has been increased quite a bit and that doesn't equal better mileage. On the other hand the trade off with this lower mileage fuel is more power, higher octane and a cooler running engine all for less then the cost of regular unleaded.

I'm not green by nature, I wouldn't run it in my car but it does work as a good race fuel.

[CSR400EX]

i found a place that sells E85 that is about 10 mins away!!! but i went up there, and they have different octanes like regular gas. what did you get TRXRacer1 ?????

[firefighterjosh]

Originally posted by TRXRacer1
You're one and one Josh.

You will NOT have to worry about your rubber breaking down like you would with other moonshine products. Ethanol is really not that bad and people have been testing it for years now.



Do a google search;)

"Alcohol fuels can be more corrosive on some rubbers , plastic and some metal parts and this is why back in the 1970's when Alcohol fuels were first introduced in the United States that people would complain abut engine problems , corroded fuel lines etc. this is no longer an issue in most newer vehicles as most newer vehicles are already designed to resist the corrosive nature of Alcohol fuels when Some states started requiring 10- 20 % Ethanol in all gasoline fuels sold . After considerable research I came to the conclusion this simply wasn't a major concern as I entered into this project . But for added protection I chose to use a high quality synthetic oil .
"


Most cars can handle it, but it can and will be corrosive on certain rubber, and metal. I would hate to see what it would do to a magnesium head:scary:

[07trx400ex]

Although , ethanol does have a lower energy density that gasoline, it does have a higher octane and runs cooler, this combination would allow a safe increase in combustion which would increase engine efficiency.

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by firefighterjosh
Do a google search;)

"Alcohol fuels can be more corrosive on some rubbers , plastic and some metal parts and this is why back in the 1970's when Alcohol fuels were first introduced in the United States that people would complain abut engine problems , corroded fuel lines etc. this is no longer an issue in most newer vehicles as most newer vehicles are already designed to resist the corrosive nature of Alcohol fuels when Some states started requiring 10- 20 % Ethanol in all gasoline fuels sold . After considerable research I came to the conclusion this simply wasn't a major concern as I entered into this project . But for added protection I chose to use a high quality synthetic oil .
"


Most cars can handle it, but it can and will be corrosive on certain rubber, and metal. I would hate to see what it would do to a magnesium head:scary: Gotta be careful with those web searches, there's more bad info on ethanol out there then good pictures of Jessica Alba. You really need to talk to guys who have been racing with it for years. Ethanol is no where near as corrosive as the commonly referred to "alcohol" methyl alcohol. Now that stuff will do some damage. Like most internet rumors I'm sure it will take some time for people to see the light instead of repeating what they hear.

[firefighterjosh]

Like I said do a google search, its ALL OVER.

I haven't seen 1 thing that has said its not.

You gatta watch out with that stuff. There is a reason you can't just pump in into a normal vehicle

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by firefighterjosh
There is a reason you can't just pump in into a normal vehicle This statement right here tells me you need to do some more research josh but I welcome the chance to shed some light. The reason you can't just pump it into a normal vehicle is because if it's a non flex fuel computer controlled vehicle and can miraculously make the swing rich enough to run E85 the O2 sensors will post up a lean condition even if it's not and if you put it in a carburetors vehicle it would be so lean without rejetting your car would be in grave danger. It takes almost 30% more ethanol to run an engine and that's why you can't just pump it in a normal vehicle.

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by CSR400EX
i found a place that sells E85 that is about 10 mins away!!! but i went up there, and they have different octanes like regular gas. what did you get TRXRacer1 ????? Are they selling E10 or E85 because E85 should be between 100-105 octane. E10 can be anything normal gas is.

[firefighterjosh]

Originally posted by TRXRacer1
This statement right here tells me you need to do some more research josh but I welcome the chance to shed some light. The reason you can't just pump it into a normal vehicle is because if it's a non flex fuel computer controlled vehicle and can miraculously make the swing rich enough to run E85 the O2 sensors will post up a lean condition even if it's not and if you put it in a carburetors vehicle it would be so lean without rejetting your car would be in grave danger. It takes almost 30% more ethanol to run an engine and that's why you can't just pump it in a normal vehicle.

I knew that already lol, I already said up above it will get worse gas mileage;)


It is corrosive to certail metals and rubber. Bevlive what you want, but there is certain metals and rubber you can not run with it.

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by firefighterjosh
I knew that already lol, I already said up above it will get worse gas mileage;)
There's a huge difference between poor gas mileage and engine problems don't ya think?:rolleyes:

i dont know about other places but most around where I live here in Florida run a mixture with 10% ethanol. Ethanol is whats in oxygenated race fuels.

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
i dont know about other places but most around where I live here in Florida run a mixture with 10% ethanol. Ethanol is whats in oxygenated race fuels. You can find E10 scattered all over the country. There's talk of making this 10% mandatory but I think it should be the choice of the consumer. The nice thing is that any vehicle can run it.

[CSR400EX]

Originally posted by TRXRacer1
Are they selling E10 or E85 because E85 should be between 100-105 octane. E10 can be anything normal gas is.
the pump and the sign out front says E85, but the pump had 87, 89, and 93 octanes lol. im confused lol

[CSR400EX]

i figured it out lol. they had a seperate nozzle for it. stuff smells like a brewery haha. put it all in, put a 210 in it, still running lean. gonna have to either buy a jet or drill one of my old ones out

[boosted3g]

If you run it straight your going to want to go to an fcr carb. They have needles for running oxygenated fuels and alcohol. I have all the specs for my 400 in my sig and honestly it runs like a champ. E85 will not eat the rubber seals in todays atvs. It will however fade your plastic so be careful when filling up. If you spill it wipe it off. If you think that e85 is bad for your fuel system talk to someone that has run u4. If you havent run it take the info in and run it. All i heard since i first started posting this months ago was that it is going to eat your seals and o-rings. To date i have run countless gallons of it through all my atv's, i even drilled the jets on my briggs lawn mower and run it in that. I guarantee you it will start in the spring even after sitting all winter with e85 in the tank. Also who the hell cares what fuel milage you get out of your quad? Does it matter if its 40 or 50, ill take the extra 3 horsepower i can squeeze out of the engine and keep the money i saved in my pocket from not buying race fuel. People say they have a problem overheating well heres your fix. Forget hack job tundra and cbr coolers, theres an easier way. Just use it and it will run much cooler.

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by boosted3g
If you run it straight your going to want to go to an fcr carb. They have needles for running oxygenated fuels and alcohol. I have all the specs for my 400 in my sig and honestly it runs like a champ. E85 will not eat the rubber seals in todays atvs. It will however fade your plastic so be careful when filling up. If you spill it wipe it off. If you think that e85 is bad for your fuel system talk to someone that has run u4. If you havent run it take the info in and run it. All i heard since i first started posting this months ago was that it is going to eat your seals and o-rings. To date i have run countless gallons of it through all my atv's, i even drilled the jets on my briggs lawn mower and run it in that. I guarantee you it will start in the spring even after sitting all winter with e85 in the tank. Also who the hell cares what fuel milage you get out of your quad? Does it matter if its 40 or 50, ill take the extra 3 horsepower i can squeeze out of the engine and keep the money i saved in my pocket from not buying race fuel. People say they have a problem overheating well heres your fix. Forget hack job tundra and cbr coolers, theres an easier way. Just use it and it will run much cooler. Love the post but I'm wondering why you need an FCR? I have it running tip top in the stock carb with a dynojet needle and larger jetting.

[boosted3g]

I should have stated that an FCR would offer a greater range of tuning. You have your choice of accelerator pumps, infinante needles and parts galore. I didnt go with the FCR just a stock 05 450r carb but i did however go to an HRC needle to richen it up a bit in the mid range. If i would have went with an FRC i would have been able to run straight e85. Othe dyno i couldnt get rid of a low rpm lean spot at tip in throttle with the 05 carb so i went to a 50-50 mix. When warmer weather hits i will probably go back to 100% e85. I will tell everyone reading this post that you will see a 2-3 hp gain when you switch and it will be across the entire rpm range.

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by boosted3g
I should have stated that an FCR would offer a greater range of tuning. You have your choice of accelerator pumps, infinante needles and parts galore. I didnt go with the FCR just a stock 05 450r carb but i did however go to an HRC needle to richen it up a bit in the mid range. If i would have went with an FRC i would have been able to run straight e85. Othe dyno i couldnt get rid of a low rpm lean spot at tip in throttle with the 05 carb so i went to a 50-50 mix. When warmer weather hits i will probably go back to 100% e85. I will tell everyone reading this post that you will see a 2-3 hp gain when you switch and it will be across the entire rpm range. Awesome! Thanks for the clarification and I agree with you on the needle, it could be hard to dial it in properly on the stock one.

[TRXRacer1]

Just an update.........

I ended up staying with the 52 pilot, just had to take my own advice and use the air/fuel mix screw! So my settings so far are:

185 main

52 pilot

1-3/4 turns out on the mix screw

2nd clip from the bottom on the Dynojet needle

Just a reminder this is the stock 400ex carb with keihin style jets and a dynojet needle. It was running perfect today and I could really feel the power! Well worth the change to E85.

[UNBROKEN]

ive seen alot of stations now have that e10 but i cat find any close to me that sell e85

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by UNBROKEN
ive seen alot of stations now have that e10 but i cat find any close to me that sell e85 I've notice that it's not getting to the east coast very fast. Kind of a bummer but being everyone with a microphone is screaming to go green it's bound to happen.

[UNBROKEN]

YEA IK i realy want to try it does it take the place of race fuel tho

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by UNBROKEN
YEA IK i realy want to try it does it take the place of race fuel tho Absolutely! It's got a lot of octane and man does it keep the engine cooler. I can feel a little power increase too. Most of my info I got on the subject was from automotive drag racers. I need some time to find out what the long term is like but there's guys that have been using it for multiple seasons now and not only reporting better ET's but less engine wear at the end of the season! Sounds a little too good to be true. I might have to just take my top end off for an inspection next winter.

[boosted3g]

Im glad you like it and are one of the few that tried it. All i got was a bunch of "its gonna eat your fuel line" or mess up the carb comments. It does work, wont hurt a thing, and it does make a significant power increase. Its starting to gain popularity especially in the tuner cars running a turbo. It is a huge power gain when you convert. Just last summer i saw a street driven high 9 second Grand National on the track that was run on e85 and he claimsed he made over 100 more hp by switching from 94 octane Sunoco. Granted its not the fuel alone im sure he added some more boost pressure but the fuel enabled him to do so. I know next winter im bumping my compression up and over boring because i am not concerned with overheating any longer.

[07trx400ex]

YES!


know next winter im bumping my compression up and over boring because i am not concerned with overheating any longer.

I was wondering how long it would take someone to try that.

The one drawback I see is that ethanol is lower energy density than gasoline. (which means it will get lower mpg)

BUT with higher octane AND lower engine temperatures a bump in compression would boost performance and efficiency SAFELY.

Some of my old friends in the tuner community are raving about ethanol since it is MUCH less corrosive than methanol especially on aluminum which seems to be the material of choice for high-strength, lightweight, performance applications these days.

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by 07trx400ex
YES!



I was wondering how long it would take someone to try that.

The one drawback I see is that ethanol is lower energy density than gasoline. (which means it will get lower mpg)

BUT with higher octane AND lower engine temperatures a bump in compression would boost performance and efficiency SAFELY. B-I-N-G-O

Had I got on the E85 bandwagon before I did my last top end, it would have been more in the 12:1 range.

[skyeryder]

Hey TRXracer how's the E85 thing working now it's been a couple months, so have you seen any negatives? Gas just went to $3.95 here and E85 is still $2.75. What web site did you say you got your info? After the quad I might do my truck also,,,

[TRXRacer1]

It's been great. The fuel consumption is not as bad as I thought it would be and the benefits are still strong power, cooler running and cheap fuel. Check out page one in this thread for the links.

[red_rider_069]

Originally posted by TRXRacer1
Yeah I saw that NY was hurting for E85 according to their list. It's bound to continue getting more popular in time. dude there are no e85 near me im in california.. not 1 statiuon!

[boosted3g]

Mine is still running strong also. Still to give the non believers a reason to think it makes power you can now buy Holley and Barry Grant carbs set up for street/strip cars right out of the box. We are at 2.60 here in central PA.

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by boosted3g
Mine is still running strong also. Still to give the non believers a reason to think it makes power you can now buy Holley and Barry Grant carbs set up for street/strip cars right out of the box. We are at 2.60 here in central PA. $2.79 now here. Still a great deal. I noticed that Holley was offering an E85 carb too. This stuff is the real deal!

yeah closest E85 station near me is NASA Kennedy Space Center and I dont want to drive there for some E85, i'll make some moonshine and purify it more so it is E85 lol

[440exmadness]

cool discussion im gonna keep an eye on it

[Wheelie]

Figured I'd bring this thread back to life, a lot of good information here.


I just switched my quad over to a blend of E85/Premium today. Still have some fine tuning to do, even though it isn't running spot-on, the power difference and throttle response change was immediately evident. The smell of the fuel in the gas can and the exhaust smell is very unique.


Premium/Race gas 50/50 jetting:

48 pilot
200 main
A/F screw out 3 turns


55% E85 and 45% Premium, I started at

58 pilot
230 main
A/F screw is at 3 turns now


The main jet is the reason for the blend, a 230 is the largest made by Keihin. I'm ordering a HRC needle this week, and my next refill I'm going to try a 60% E85 with 40% premium as I feel the 230 is a touch rich. Rather than rejetting down, I'm going to increase the E85 content.

[Wheelie]

Installed the HRC needle on Monday and took it for a test ride. The throttle response on the E85 blend is incredible, much improved over the 50/50 race gas/premium blend I used to run. My quad starts easier now as well, which is the opposite of what I thought would happen.

The difference in engine temps is also impressive. Warm up time is longer than it used to be and the engine is much cooler than it used to be after a short ride.

I'm loving this fuel. Cheaper than race gas, much better throttle response, slightly more power and the engine runs cooler. :macho

[woodsracer144]

ok so how would the e85 work in a 250r? the gas startion that sold turbo blue felll through and now i cant find ANY 110 for my 250r... what do i do... i dont really wanna buy it by the 55 gallon drum... because i couldnt use it fast enough...

[Wheelie]

I don't know how well, if at all, E85 would work in a 2-stroke. My best recommendation would be research and a lot of it.

Beware, there are a lot of false myths out there about E85, so learn the facts and know them well.

Update: My next blend will be 70% E85 and 30% premium due to main circuit being richer than I'd originally thought. It's going to take some tuning to get it right, but the end product will be worth it. The difference in engine temps is drastic enough that I've decided to purchase a Temp dipstick to ensure that my oil temps don't get too low with the fan on--if that's actually possible.

[Wheelie]

The 70% E85, 30% Premium is spot on. Quad runs killer.

It's nice to be able to get high octane fuel at a public pump and only pay 1.60/gal.:macho

[yellow416ex]

Originally posted by firefighterjosh
Do a google search;)

" But for added protection I chose to use a high quality synthetic oil .
"


:

Using a good synthetic oil is not a bad idea for this reason right here-

" To the best of our knowledge, Chrysler does still require a special FFV engine oil. The concern here is that uncombusted ethanol (especially during rich cold start conditions) may migrate past the piston ring resulting in cylinder wall washing which reduces cylinder wall lubrication and could run down into the crankcase, diluting the engine oil.

While such occurrences are unlikely, the special engine oil adds an additional degree of protection until more field experience can be accumulated. These requirements apply to Chrysler FFV minivans if they are to be operated full- or part-time on E85."

I realize it says this is unlikely, but have any of you guys runnin E85 noticed your oil being diluted? now obviously the time it would take to noticeably dilute your oil is going to be longer in a 1 cylinder engine comared to a V6 or a V8, but I'm just curious if this would have any affect on things like the piston rings and the clutch.

[Wheelie]

Gasoline does the same thing that is being described from that quote.

During my extensive research on E-85 before I switched, I found that the general consensus is Ethanol will have less of a contamination effect than gasoline due to Ethanol burning more completely than pump grade gasoline.

I've only run the E-85 blend for a short while, but the oil is staying clear longer than it did with a race gas/pump gas blend. After about 15 hours on gasoline, the oil would start to discolor--albeit very slightly. So far, E-85 hasn't discolored the oil at all in the same time frame.

One unusual thing I've noticed about Ethanol is its effect on the spark plug. It cleans it incredibly well and plug reading is completely different. After a couple tanks of E-85, my year old spark plug looks almost new.

[UNBROKEN]

it be interesting to do a oil analisis with pump gas/racefuel and another with just E85 to see the results between them both

[yellow416ex]

Originally posted by Wheelie
Gasoline does the same thing that is being described from that quote.



That makes sense that you could have blow-by with anything but they made sound like ethanol would be worse for the oil. thats good to know that it does not contaminate it as bad as gasoline.

[Wheelie]

I changed the oil in my quad today, so I figured I'd report back to answer the above questions.

I ran about 20 hours on this oil change, about 5 more than usual, mainly for testing reasons.

My findings: At 20 hours on the E85 blend, the oil is about as clean, if not cleaner than the oil was with 15 hours on gasoline.

There oil didn't look or feel odd in any way. Other than being cleaner, by the oil alone one wouldn't be able to tell that this machine runs on corn. The oil didn't smell any different either, which tells me that the saturation of E85 into the oil isn't an issue.

On a side note, I did a lot of changes and tuning during this 20+ hours. Sometime wayyy rich and other times slightly lean. I'll report back after the next oil change again. I expect the oil to be cleaner, longer during this change. Mainly due to the higher Ethanol content and the tuning changes are now minor instead of the drastic changes that were being made when I started.

BTW--This quad rips!:macho

[Thumpin]

I just switched from VP110/ 89 octane pump gas on my 416ex to E85 and wow was it easy! My engine build goes like this, Ross piston 11:1 with head shaved, C&D ported head & intake, Hot Cam stg 2, CT Racing Midrange full exhaust, UNI air filter, lids off air box, factory carb with choke removed.

With VP110 race gas mixed with 89 pump gas.
42 pilot
4th clip down on factory needle
168 main

Now with 100% E85
52 pilot
5th clip down on factory needle
198 main
Had to make an adjustment on the air/fuel screw.
This set up seems very close, and runs pretty well!

I started with a 205 main jet and right out of the gate I knew I was too rich, the warmer the engine got the richer it acted. So I switched to a 200 main and it got better. I road it for an hour on trails and knew it was still too rich. Droped in the 198 main and bingo!

That 198 main made the machine act more crisp and snappier, also the acceleration was much faster and the topend pulled much harder. I'm real curious to see what a 195 main will do? If not alot of change is made with the 195 main I think the 198 main will do fine. I think a power increase of 3-4 hp is really there! Plus a harder pulling midrange punch is very noticeable!

I'll change to a 195 main, and maybe a different needle to see what happens, than report back with the results.

I'm pretty impressed with the power increase and how much cooler the engine runs. It even seems like the engine sounds smoother running also. And its so much cheaper to buy than race fuel, $1.79 conpared to $8 a gallon! Yea much cheaper and runs better to boot!

E85 is every speed geeks dream! Now I need a 12:1 piston!

[BEAVER.989]

Has anyone tried running straight E85, without mixing?

[F-16Guy]

You may want to re-read the post above yours. :cool:

[Thumpin]

Hello Beaver989. Myself I was faced with either very expensive fuel or the better alt, E85! My mixed fuel I used (89pump gas and VP110 thats 104octane) was only an octane rating of around 96-97 octane. But my 416ex ran great on it! Now E85 strait is around 104 octane strait outta the pump! Wish now I had a 12:1 piston! But my point is I had to do some thing cuz my engine would ping like crazy on just 89-91 octane pump gas once it was warmed up.

Im running about 10 sizes larger on pilotjet so a 50-52 pilot jet should work for most people with some air fuel screw adjustment.

And I went from a 168 main jet to a 198 main, so adding around 30-37 sizes larger jet should get you in the ball park. I started at a 205 jet and knew right away it was too rich, so just backed off one jet size at a time till it ran crisp and strong.

My stock needle is set on the lowest clip, 5th down. And feels pretty close, but might be a little lean yet. I think most with just a slip on exhaust,10-11:1 piston, any Hot Cam, would run great on the 5th clip setting.

E85 is nothing to be afraid of just do your research and jump on it. The 400ex will thank you for it! More power and runs much cooler operating temps! I couldn't beleive how easy it was!

Good luck, and PM me if you have questions.

[thebig450es]

Any updates?, im planning on starting to run a blend of E85 on my 400ex.

[Thumpin]

Well I wanted to keep everyone posted on my engine performanc e on E85. I took it out to Genoa Headworks Park on Memorial weekend Saturday and ran it like I stole the machine!

I first of all changed my main from a 198main to a 195main thinking it would run a little more crisp and stay more in tune as I rode thru the dirt, mud, sand, water and got the filter all dirty!

Boy did I put that poor 416ex thru its paces, I drag raced it several times, ran it thru the low river, fording thru water, chasing my buddies thru trails, and more racing and never had a single problem running, in fact it ran wonderful all day!

The add power the E85 gave sure helped running paddles in the sand, and I really did notice the engine ran so much COOLER! Last year running race/pump gas the engine would really put out some serious heat running in the same conditions.

I think anyone with a 400ex running a high compression piston 10-12:1 should run this E85 fuel, you will be AMAZE how much better and cooler it will run!

I am going to stay with my 195main jet and put on a EHS Racing lid on my air box to keep all that mud, sand, and water off my air filter, EHS said my jetting should stay the same with their lid on! I will keep all you posted on how everything is working!

[thebig450es]

Do you think 12.5:1 is too much for E85?

[Wheelie]

Originally posted by thebig450es
Do you think 12.5:1 is too much for E85?

IMO--No. E85 has an octane rating of 105 and a MON rating of 100-101. 13:1-13.5:1 would be plenty safe on E85. 14:1, however I think would be going too far.

[woodsracer144]

any one run this in a 2 stroke yet?

how big of a chage did you do in your 4strokes on carb setups?

[TRXRacer1]

Sweet to see the this thread is still alive. I sold the 400ex but now have an XR400. Time to switch the xr to E85!

[Thumpin]

Now that Ive ran most of the year on E85 I feel Ive got a pretty good tune going. My pilot went from a 52 too rich to a 50, the fuel screw is at 1 1/2 turns, my stock needle on 5th clip seemed a bit too lean, so I used my CT Racing needle on the 5th clip to richen up and its perfect, and my main was at 195 and ran ok but it seemed to run better with a 198 main, 200 main would sputter and spit telling me its too rich.

With this tune it runs pretty strong for a 400, smokin on many stock 450's drag racing, Id say its a good set up!

I'm power hungry just like many of you and want more power! So the 450r carb swap sounds like my next mod.

Most of my riding is trails, and running paddles around the river in the sand. So having strong tork is high on my list but keeping engine heat down was tough till I started running E85, now my engine never ever seems hot no matter what I do. Should make my engine last much longer not running hot all the time!

I think anyone wanting to run cooler with sum extra punch to boot should look into E85. And the cost of running race fuel is way to much at $8+ a gallon to justify, E85 is usually bout 40cents cheaper that the rest of the pump gas!

I feel Ive got a good grasp on running this fuel, so let me know if any of you need help tuning on E85.

[400exrider707]

It seems like boosted3g is the only one actually using it to its performance advantage.

I dont see what the point of running a higher octane fuel such as this on a stock motor is for? Have you upped the compression or changed the timing to take advantage of it, or are you just running it to say you can?

[F-16Guy]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
It seems like boosted3g is the only one actually using it to its performance advantage.

I dont see what the point of running a higher octane fuel such as this on a stock motor is for? Have you upped the compression or changed the timing to take advantage of it, or are you just running it to say you can?

Yeah, I agree. It makes me want to deck my cylinder and go to a 12.5:1 426cc piston. I have a Carrillo rod, my crank is welded and trued, and I have GT Thunder studs, so I can pretty much run whatever CR I want. If the 416 ever buys the farm, I'm going big! :macho :D

[Wheelie]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
It seems like boosted3g is the only one actually using it to its performance advantage.

I dont see what the point of running a higher octane fuel such as this on a stock motor is for? Have you upped the compression or changed the timing to take advantage of it, or are you just running it to say you can?

It has very good cooling properties which helps greatly with an air cooled engine.

For those that require high octane fuel, it's a great alternative. Much cheaper than race gas and it increases power.

[Thumpin]

Yea my 416 must be on the higher side of 11:1 cuz once it would warm up, it was pinging like crazy on 91 pump gas. And ran great on a 50/50 mix of vp110 race gas and 91 pump gas. So yea my cheapest alternative was the E85!

Now what Ive got for jetting I'm a bit affraid to add bore size or more compression for the fact that my richest needle is maxed out, and I'm gettin close to running the main to max.

I beleive the biggest main I can get for that carb is around 228 looking at Jets R Us?

Would a 12:1 slug make me have to change the needle any? And how much would the main need 2 be increased? I know you guys would have an Idea with just race gas, and the increases in jets from 11:1 should be bout the same for E85.

And would 12:1 be too much for a stock rod?

Thanx for picking your brains!

[Wheelie]

12:1 on the stock rod is pushing it.

The biggest Keihin jet is a 230. I found a chart online that lists jet sizes and their corresponding drill size. I'm at the point where I have to drill my own jets--look at sig, this thing drinks the fuel.

Only reason I don't run straight E-85 is the needle. I can shim it, but that will only help to a point. The taper is key.

[Thumpin]

This afternoon I called Colby and asked him what he thought about going to a 12:1 from 11:1 on an E85 tune. I told him how I was maxed out on my CT Racing needle and was concerned about not being able to go any richer.

He replyed to me that just changing the piston to 12:1 that my jetting wouldnt change, or if it did, wouldnt be much at all. He explained that the higher compression from 11 to 12 would make more power, be more efficent and not use much more fuel, he got real technical on the rest of his explanintion, but it made sense.

Than I asked him about the rod, and said it should be fine if there wasnt to many hours on my whole engine. He said he builds many 12-12.5:1 400ex's on the stock rod and crank, as long as the rest of the engines not to worn. And its when he puts together a 13:1+ engine he would beef up the bottom end.

Well it is an 2001 but didnt get rode much till I got it. So Im still in debate. If it was an 06 or newer with very low hours than Id do it in a heartbeat! But I still want another 2yrs out of this machine.

Colby also said that he has been tuning quads on his dyno on E85 with great success! Mostly 450's. So when my CanAm DS450X needs a topend rebuild its getting 13:1 on E85!

[loboboy]

Originally posted by woodsracer144
any one run this in a 2 stroke yet?

how big of a chage did you do in your 4strokes on carb setups?

Yes and I have been having great luck with mine. I have a Banshee 7MM Stroker with Electronic Fuel Injection running E85. I was tired of paying for race fuel when the bike drinks it so fast so I got with JSR Performance who contracted Gigot Racing in Garden City Kansas to set my bike up with 40MM Throttle Bodies, 60 lb/hr inj running at 60PSI and my bike gained 8HP just fro mthe fuel change. E85 is one of the cehapest and best race fuels you can find plus you can get it from the pump.

Guys if you have a 4stroke and want to run this all you need to do is add a Powerjet to your carb and it will allow you to adjust your jetting at all settings without changing your jets. Contact JSR Perfomance for info on this mod. They are doing more work with E85 than any other builder around right now and are producing great running motors with it.

JSR Performance 316-733-1936

Oh and for more info on my bike check out the January QOTM posting and thanks to all that voted for me.

[Thumpin]

Loboboy, that Banshee's got to be just scary to try and hang on to! But sounds very fun! Nice work.

What kinda of compression you running in that beast? And any idea what kinda rpm's its twistin?

[loboboy]

compression is around 14:1 I think. It has over 200psi of cranking comp. As for holding on to it, yes it is a little tiring but very fun. The power is surprisingly controllable and it has tons of bottom. We twisted this motor to 12K on the dyno but the power starts to drop off at 10200 rpm. The overrev is nice to have sometimes in a flattrack race, especially when I don't gear it properly for a track.

[woodsracer144]

how long have you had the shee? didnt JP have a chassis like this also?

[Thumpin]

I also thought about maybe just adding more timing to my 416ex with a sparks advance key! Im pretty sure engines running that ethanol tend to want more timing to run closer to optimum.

I built a 396 (.60") over to a 408cid, 11:1cr, Rpm airgap intake, ported oval ports with 2.10x1.73 valves, Comp 282 solid cam, 2'' primary headers to 4" side pipes, MSD pro billit distributor with 6AL MSD box, 750cfm double pumper running on E85! This combo ran better and better the more timing you gave it! I guessed this combo to run about 475hp in a 66 Vet with 373 gears and a TKO600 5-speed manual transmission. Fun as H**l to drive in about a 3,000lb convertible! Very sweet ride, wish I owned it, my farmer buddy is retired and want his Vet to scream on corn juice, and so it does now! I'll try and find sum pics for it!

[loboboy]

Originally posted by woodsracer144
how long have you had the shee? didnt JP have a chassis like this also?

I've owned it since 2005. It was originally built for a Lonestar Sponsored rider an I bought it from him while he was working for Lonestar. I dont know much about JP so I don't know.

[woodsracer144]

have you ever weighed your quad? i would like to know how light or heavy it is...

[loboboy]

Its heavy. My battery that I run to operate the lights and the EFI is 12lbs. i could get away with a lighter battery but I much rather have enough power. I went on a diet lost 20lbs so I am better off than I was before I installed the battery. The chassis isnt any lighter than a regualr banshee but I have a $hit ton more HP than I need so things are good.

[toxshox]

Got a question for you all. I want to or am trying to set up my polaris outlaw 500 for e85 and not sure what's a good starting point I was running a edelbrock carb before i did a bunch of motor work now the edelbrock i can't get it tuned for turboblue fuel to lean on the bottem end and to rich up on top and called them up and they really can't help me and at $20 a needle i'd go broke testing which one would work and the ones i've tried only made it worse worked great for stock motor. So here is what i have right now it's a polaris motor that is is bored out to 558 cc and have a piston that is running at 12.5:1 compression i have oversized valve +1 and a more agressive cam along with a port job I have for carbs is that edelbrock and the stock one which is the same for the predator pretty much. I have a dyno jet kit for the stock carb but dont think it's going to help much since largest jet is only a 180 for the mains. I have a wideband gauge setup on my quad i have to do some math to figure out what e85 should be running since it just reads gasoline a/f and doesn't give me a lambda reading but would like any sugestions or comments about how to get a good starting point or choosing a different carb and also the correct air to fuel to have i read somewhere 8.3 air to fuel is good at wide open throttle and idle should be around 9.8 if i try to convert that to gasoline 13.5 a/f at wot and 15.95 a/f at idle? Any help at all is appreciated greatly.

Regards



Originally posted by TRXRacer1
After a weekend of boredom and internet reading I placed and order with JetsRus and started operation E85. Running E85 has been done already but not by many so research reading was very minimal for performance aplications. I did learn a couple solid facts though.

E85 is high octane

Ethanol is not nearly as corrosive as Alcohol

There are cheap power gains to be had

And your engine will be quite thirsty

With my 10:1 416, stage 1 HC, Uni-style filter (lid on), PC slip-on and head pipe mod I was running

155 main

40 pilot

stock mixture screw setting

and 3rd clip from the top on a 7 position Dynojet needle

From what I was reading about quads, bikes and drag cars I figured I would need about

200 main

52 pilot

stock mix setting

2nd clip from the bottom on the needle

To be safe I ordered a few sizes up and down from 200 from JetsRus and the 52 pilot. Shockingly I ordered Sunday and got the jets Wednesday! For a starting point I tuned the carb as listed above and drained out the gas. Tonight I got some E85 and went for a test spin.

First run I could tell immediatly that the top and bottom was rich. I was getting a fluttering on the top end and the bottom end seemed like it was on the edge. Without further testing I dropped the main to a 192. It ran better but still had a little flutter so I pulled the air box lid off leaning the mix out and it ran perfect! I put the lid back on and changed the main one more time to a 185 and from the 5 minutes I ran around it felt great. The mid responded perfect too so I did not change the needle setting.

Power wise it felt slightly stronger and after I ran it for a while the cylinder was as cool as it has ever been. My neighbor has a 48 pilot jet that he's going to trade me for my 52 and I'm 100% confident that it will finish the bottom end.

So now, from what I can tell, these are the settings that are going to make my machine run perfect on E85

185 main

48 pilot

slightly leaner then stock mix setting

and 2nd clip from the bottom on the Dynojet needle.

It will be a couple weeks until my next big ride but so far I think I might be hooked on E85. If it goes well I'll tune the rest of the fleet for it too.