Tranny problems, help?

[Honda_Matt]

I let a friend ride my 450eR on monday, after riding for a few hours he came walking back without the quad, said he didnt do anything but it wont shift.

So basically it wont shift into 1st or Nuet.

It will shift from 2nd-5th

When you start it, clutch in, in second. It will ride for about 10 ft. lock up hard and stall

I havent torn it down yet (not looking forward to it) but I think it's probably either a shift fork, or broken 1st gear.

Im gonna drain the oil with a screen and see If I get any chunks of metal coming out first.

Anyone have similar problems, or can tell what the problem is just from the description?

This is a good reason not to let friends ride your toys.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e138/30thCamarov6/art012.jpg

[Honda_Matt]

Nobody?

[chad502ex]

sounds like a bent shift fork to me...

No matter what it is you'll need an engine builder to split your engine apart to determine and replace the parts...

[Dustin075]

Honda matt you dont need a engine bulider, you got the special orlando training! HA HA

[Honda_Matt]

Yeah I can tear it apart myself, just not looking forward to it, and im not gonna start on it till this weekend.

Replacing the parts isnt a big deal, getting to them is what sucks.

[hendershot106]

everytime you split it... replace ALL THE SHIFT forks... and the shift drums... and check the round shift drum center and tabs inside it behind your clutch basket... i have replaced all the gears in mine... 3- 4 -5 twice now...... u have to check every single gear... dont skimp on your tranny---

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by hendershot106
everytime you split it... replace ALL THE SHIFT forks... and the shift drums... and check the round shift drum center and tabs inside it behind your clutch basket... i have replaced all the gears in mine... 3- 4 -5 twice now...... u have to check every single gear... dont skimp on your tranny---

better yet, do it one time and never do it again..... I like that best....


Here's what you do,... send me the complete tranny including shift forks and shift fork pins and for about $250 plus return shipping I can surface treat your entire tranny so you never have to worry about it again...

each gear come out looking like this...

[Honda_Matt]

what causes them to break, seems like they break so easily.

what does surface treating do, make them indestructable?

Chad, email me if you can so I can get some more info from you, thanks matthathorn@gmail.com

[chad502ex]

here's something I posted.....

Less Friction and Less Heat....Means....More Horsepower and Longer Life


Isotropic Surface Finishing




Isotropic Surface Finishing produces a non-linear, low Ra, that reduces wear and substantially thereby reducing friction. ISF is a chemical- mechanical process that sequentially removes the "peaks" of a ground, cut, or honed surface while leaving the "valleys" of the material unaffected. The end result of ISF is a dramatically improved surface finish without any insignificant dimensional change of the part being treated. An increase in component life is a result due to it becoming a flatter contact surface that distributes the loads over a larger surface area ultimately inhibiting the formation of stress risers along the surface.



ISF is not an application of any surface coating, but more of a surface treatment.... ISF has been sucessful on many Formula 1 and NASCAR engines where frictional losses are a serious concern. Where we, as ATV enthusiast, can benefit is when we surface finish selective engine components to improve the longevity of the part by reducing the surface friction and shear tension when to machined parts come in contact. The overall surface looks like a highly polished part. Obviously, reducing surface heat decreases parasitic drag on performance parts, but also reduces the heat generated within your engine.


What does this mean for us? Well, for the 06+ 450R's its a great tranny modification to prevent failure of the OEM power pressed tranny gears flaking apart due to excessive operating temperatures... Yup, you've heard the rumors where some 06+ 450R trannies are failing caused by improper cooling.... ISF'ing any tranmission can actually reduce run temperatures and drag thus increasing your power output....

You can ISF treat just about any internal engine part- except bearings.... (Speaking of bearings, check out my 'Ceramic Bearing' thread..) Back to the ISF treating of any internal engine part.... I can do crankshafts, camshafts, cam sprocket gears, exhaust rockers, drive gears, connecting rods, shift forks, shift drums, counter balancer gears...

Doesn't costs very much either,.... Cost for tranny ISF treatment is typically $250 plus return shipping. Usually takes about one week turnaround...

[IOWAracer]

Chad what is the chance of this happening to my 07 I havent had it to long but im running Pro Am and A class in XC and I dont wanna be having a good race and then have tranny problems how dier is this mod I am tearing my Quad down during the GNCC Break so I will prolly have you do that to my gears/tranny...

BB

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by IOWAracer
Chad what is the chance of this happening to my 07 I havent had it to long but im running Pro Am and A class in XC and I dont wanna be having a good race and then have tranny problems how dier is this mod I am tearing my Quad down during the GNCC Break so I will prolly have you do that to my gears/tranny...

BB

The ISF treatment has already been tested on Pro Race Engine parts and trannys. This treatment is especially benefitial to the 06+ TRX450r where the improper oiling has caused some power pressed gears to flake apart when extreme heated. Most of the 06+ trannys I've seen could benefit from this modification.

[Honda_Matt]

Thanks for the info, let me tear into it and ill consider it.

Sounds like its something that needs to be done, but after shipping costs my wallet may be a lil dry.

Ill get back to you on it.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Honda_Matt
Thanks for the info, let me tear into it and ill consider it.

Sounds like its something that needs to be done, but after shipping costs my wallet may be a lil dry.

Ill get back to you on it.

ok, sounds good. If you decide ship your shift forks and shift fork pins along with the tranny.

Personally, If I had an 06+, It would be the first thing I'd do if I split the case for any reason.... with the peace of mind imo.

Hope this helps.

[Dave400ex]

I think having the ISF done and combined with the tranny mod like Moto-Xperts does would provide a very solid tranny.

[Honda_Matt]

what does moto xperts do?

[Dave400ex]

Moto-Xperts (http://moto-xperts.com/page12.php)

Check out the tranny mod there. He has a picture as well. Call or email him for more info. He also offers the ISF.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Honda_Matt
what does moto xperts do?

dimpled valves.... LOL!

[rt20ps]

http://www.williamsmotowerx.net/

[chad502ex]

believe me when I say those have been tested to show no gain in flow on the flowbench....


you'd be better off buying a power now valve..... LOL!

[rt20ps]

I've seen the tests too. I was in no way recommending them...



Sorry to hyjack the thread..

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by rt20ps
I've seen the tests too. I was in no way recommending them...



Sorry to hyjack the thread..

Great were on the same page then...

kewl!

[Honda_Matt]

I think im just going to have it cryo treated

it's cheaper, it's close to home so no shipping and more people Ive talked to have had it done and loved the results.

[chad502ex]

cryo treating does nothing to reduce friction temperature...

remember these gears are powder pressed... the surface frictional heat will still be transferred within... the cyro treatment is surface hardening but does nothing to reduce temperatures and the transfer of heat past the surface treatment....

Good luck.

[Honda_Matt]

Thanks, im not trying to start a pissing match, but ive asked on 4 different forums about ISF or micro surfacing and out of all the replies, ive had nobody that has had it done, or anything like it done, or even heard of it before.

Alot of people that responded had cryo treatments done and say it made a world of difference.

Cost is half of what ISF costs, and I wouldnt have to pay shipping both ways since Its only a few hours from home.

I like what you do, it sounds like a good idea and whatnot, but id rather do something a majority of people tell me works rather than hearing it from a "salesman" and not knowing the results for sure.
The salesman thing was not an insult, its just these days if someones trying to sell you something, they will tell you anything you want to hear to make it happen & you have to hear feedback to know if they are full of it or not.

[chad502ex]

ok, thats fine. I think enough time has been wasted explaining what many of the Pro builders are offering as a way to fix the tranny from coming apart. You should also realize that we have done more than you'll know... We know what works and what doesn't on mild builds and on higher hp Pro builds too.

You are more than welcomed to experiment with cryo,. nobody is selling you anything but infomration on what works and what doesn't.

Good luck.