how to weld the bracket for my linkage on my rear end?

[maddmatt02]

ok, well I know how to weld it, I am more wondering how to set the quad when I do, because I wont have any load on the rear end, so the shock will be fully extended.

I have a 300ex frame, 450r swingarm, and 250r shock, on 400ex linkage. I have the shock in and the linkage is bolted to the swinger and the shock. Im making a thick bracket out of angle iron to bolt the linkage to. I am wondering if there is any general rule like the linkage to the frame should sit parallel to the swingarm when the quad is on the ground? should I take all of the preload off of the rear shock and then use jack stand under the grab bar to have the quad sit just above where I want it to sit with its weight on the rear, so when I take the stand out, it sags to about where I want it or lopwer, than use the preload to crank it up a bit if I need to?

any tips? I am figuring Ill be tacking it and setting it on the ground and testing it alot, but wanted to know if theres any general rules to it, like if i should get it set with preload in the middle so i can go both ways, or the parallel link thing, or...?

[2muchquad]

pics of mine i did a long time ago

[2muchquad]

another,blurry camera

[2muchquad]

1 more

[maddmatt02]

2 questions for ya, 1, I cant really tell that good, but is your link parallel to the swinger when its on the ground.

and 2. who did you get your 385 kit from?

biggest Ive seen is a 349.

[2muchquad]

The link does appear to run parallel to the swinger,not the ground.I got it from pro fab,its the 86mm piston kit.It uses a 400ex sleeve pressed into the 300ex cylinder.Actual displacement is 377cc or so but he calls it a "385";)

[maddmatt02]

stroker crank as well right?

how much meat was there as far as the aluminum thats around the pressed in sleeve?

did it get pretty thin?

[2muchquad]

its not a stroker,stock stroke.there appears to be ample room in the cylinder for the sleeve.i havent had a problem in 2yrs plus since ive owned it.it just runs warmer than stock obviously but not too hot.

[maddmatt02]

I wonder if you can run the +4 crank, with a custom piston? probably be somewhere around 405cc?


with those mods you have can you spank a stock 400?

[RedRider23]

I'd almost but that it would already out run a stock 400ex by a little bit...

I dragged my 440ex that was done up right against a outragious 250x with what he said was a 400ex stock piston... and Im going to tell ya... he was right beside me until i got in the top end of 3rd. just me .02

[2muchquad]

mine is already comparable to a 400ex.

[fast426]

when i did this, i put a jack on the grab bar to hold it up, then got the rear like you said, a bit above where i wanted it to be. I had already punched holes in two pieces of angle iron, and i bolted them too the linkage to make sure they were straight. I then tacked the angle iron in place on the frame. After this i took everything off leaving the angle iron, and put the quad up on it's bumper to make the welding easier. hope this helps

[fast426]

another

[maddmatt02]

alright, looks like you got the same rear shock I got, but a 450r linkage, I got the 400ex linkage. I heard that a 450r rear shock could be used on a 400 so I am assuming the bottom fork of the shock is the same on both, so what did you do to bolt it all together.

I drilled the bottom of the shock out to 5/8 and got a 5/8" O.D. 1/2" I.D. spacer, and then slid a 1/2" O.D. 3/8 I.D. into it, drilled it to 25/64" (9.9mm) and then used a 10mm bolt. I cut 2 peices of the sleeve to fit inside the shock, and bolted it all together. for now I just got a peice of 6x6 under the linkage so I could sit on it and see how much my weight lowered it, and how much the weight of the bike itself lowered it.

I hope Ill get to weld it up soon.

I only got a few things holding me back from finally riding this thing, its been in progress for almost a year now.

[fast426]

as for a shock, we are now running a dual rate tcs rear for a 250r. We tried the 250 shock, but it seemed very stiff. I havent had time to try the new shock out yet outside of the yard, but it feels really good. I have yet to address the fact that the holes in the bottom of the shock are bigger than that of the shock bushing, I am thinking of getting two spacers to slide in to make it right.

[maddmatt02]

if you never addressed the problem, how do you know that the shock was too stiff? or did you just slide a bolt in it just to hold it together so you could put your weight on it to see.

with a block under my link, stock trx250r rear shock, if I put my weight on it and jump a bit, it seems like it will be pretty nice.

[fast426]

i just put the 450 bolt in, there is a small difference, but I tightened it real good so i could test it out.

[maddmatt02]

I wonder how there was only a small difference?

if 450 and 400 rear shocks are interchangable, then the sleeve inside the needle bearing on the linkage must have the same indside diameter. my 400 link has a 10mm hole, and my shock has 14mm holes.

I guess I could see how that could be a small difference just for getting weight on it to see, but definately not a small difference for riding it.

do you happen to know if anyone has experimented and seen if a 450r rear shock will fit with the resorvoir pointing down towards the engine?


also does my remote resorvoir have to sit upright, or can it be upside down a bit at an angle? I see you got yours like i was thinking of mounting mine, but someone told me they cant be upside down once.

[fast426]

i don't know about anybody using the 450 shock, but i am pretty sure you can mount the resivoirs upside down. On the 450's the rear resi mount for a pep is on the subframe, pretty much horizontal, maybe even a little bit angled down.

[maddmatt02]

was just at the shop and looked at a 450 and no way the rear shock would work. the adjustment shock is on this huge peice cast on the side of the shock, and it is very close to the bolt hole so the 300 frame would be in the way.

[Y2daT420]

looks good to me i say if it rides ok go with it


it also looks almost juist like my 300 (well my uncles 300 lol)

[AGPallstar109]

im in the middle of doing mine now, but i need help, i have a 450r swinger, a 450r elka linkage and a 450r rear elka shock with a remote resevoir and i need to get my linkage tab welded but as of now i just have my bike on a stand tires holding the rear tires up and my shock bolted to the linkage, so what should i use to make my tab, and how should i weld it>?

[fast426]

use two piece of angle iron, one on each side for the tabs. To weld it I put the grab bar on a stand at the height we wanted it and with the angle iron bolted to the linkage, I tacked it into place. This was enough to hold it without the stand, and we then put the quad sitting on the bumper to get a better angle at the tabs for welding. The best way to do the welding would be with the motor removed.

[markvette]

i see you guys are using all kinds of shocks and having to make them work. would a 450r after market shock with a remote rezzie be a bolt on ??

Mark

[fast426]

i am not sure the length of the 450 rear shock, but yes it should work fine. You will have to gring the top of the shock to fit into the upper shock mount i believe, i did on the 250r shock, but I would check it first to make sure.

[AGPallstar109]

well i have a single u bracket of angle iron, it is square shaped so it has the back and two side and the front is open for where im putting the linkage, and im using a elka dual rate 450r rear shock with remote resovior, and an elka linkage for a 450r i add some pics later

[maddmatt02]

Im making a channel like you have out of 2 peices of angle iron overlapped. and then actually using the overlapped side to bolt to, so that the overlapped peices are vertical, and the other 2 sides are horizontal so i can weld it across the bottom, up it and across the top of that rail. I doubt it needs to be this strong from looking at a oem honda bracket welded on the frame. but I really dont want it busting when I land from something huge. especially since I think my link ends up being a little farther from the frame than a stock 450.

[AGPallstar109]

heres the pics
http://i32.tinypic.com/kd24hz.jpg
http://i29.tinypic.com/6onazc.jpg
http://i28.tinypic.com/2mnp5x4.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/20frz2f.jpg
http://i29.tinypic.com/2iaq5hw.jpg
http://i30.tinypic.com/2air2ok.jpg
http://i26.tinypic.com/2exlr4p.jpg
http://i32.tinypic.com/16aocy1.jpg
http://i30.tinypic.com/3326t6w.jpg
http://i32.tinypic.com/4ryxdv.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/5arvia.jpg
http://i27.tinypic.com/2d7j0o9.jpg
thats the bike, above
http://i30.tinypic.com/f05l4p.jpg
http://i28.tinypic.com/2ezk02f.jpg
http://i32.tinypic.com/294h3tl.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/i5q7ar.jpg
and thats the iron u channel i have do you think that will work?

[born2ride14]

I would suggest doing something like this.........

[maddmatt02]

mine personally is going to be like that, it wraps the lower bar from top to bottom and extends to the side about an inch, so there will be a total of about 6"+ of metal to metal contact thjat gets welded on both sides, I dont think its going anywhere.

[maddmatt02]

and of course4 it is way out of scale, there will probably not even be 2" from the pivot bolt to the frame, the pic makes it look like 6-8.

[AGPallstar109]

well im totally finished now, here is some pics
http://i26.tinypic.com/2me4rbt.jpg
http://i29.tinypic.com/2ef6u52.jpg
http://i29.tinypic.com/2my8dj9.jpg
http://i31.tinypic.com/21lpbug.jpg

[maddmatt02]

I was going to have my linkage point more towards that rail, not above it, any reason you did that? just wondering cuz I havent gotten my wedler yet so i still havent done mine.

[AGPallstar109]

yea, because depending on your shock, mine was a dual rate 450r elka with compression and rebound and the length made it sit too low when it was straight with the rail, so i point the bracket upwards and it gave me a perfect angle and perfect ride height so depending on what shock your using the angle may be differnt

[maddmatt02]

alright, yeah, I just got a stock 250r shock, and I had the stand under the grab bar holding the quad where I want, and running the link parallel to the arm puts it pointing almost straight at it, alot how the stock 450r frames setup looks like. I bought my welder yesterday, but today is my day off however I have to go to one of the rentals and replace the thermo-coupler on the water heater and hope thats the problem so I dont get to play with it today. but I think I am also going to put a jack under the pivot point in the linkage as well as the grab bar under the quad, just to preload the shock a little bit and it will push the link a little closer to the frame so there will be a little less leverage on the welds.

have you took it out for a ride yet? how does it feel?

[Project300]

we finally got the 300 out with the tcs dual rate rear. It rides awesome!! It soaked up the jumps great, better than my 400 used to. The only issue was the linkage seems pretty close to the ground, and bottomed out a little bit if he landed a little short. but it wasn't a big deal. Like an idiot i hit a jump on the first lap and cased it, and i am sure without this setup i would have been bucked off, but it soaked it up great.

[AGPallstar109]

ok well this is where the forum comes into help hopefully, so i have the whole bike done i posted pics, but theres a problem, im runiing an elka linkage for a 450r with a dual rate elka 450r rear shock, so here is the problem the shock wont budge, the only thing that moves is the sag spring, and it dpesnt move good, if i pull the sag all the way up it stays there, and if i push it down the only thing that moves is the sag down, i have to jump on the grab bar just to get the shock to budge, so i think it is the fact that i way 155 pounds and the shock is set for 225, but even with the rebound at the fastest and the compression at the softest it doesnt budge so im going to buy a stock 250r shock to see how that works, but i want to know what you think the problem is cause really i cant figure it out and i have had about 20 other guys, like 4 of them are professionals and they have no clue so this is my last resort

[Project300]

even with the shock valved for a 225 pound rider it should still budge. We had the exact same problem with a stock 250r rear shock, it seemed way stiff. With the elka linkage, the angle of the linkage might be off and not allowing it to move in the proper direction. It could also be the shock though, because it was still stiff with the tcs rear shock until we got it rebuilt, and now it works perfect.

[maddmatt02]

I got mine done, I wasnt thinking clearly and thought the link would shorten to lower the bike, so I set it high and just tacked it, figuring id put it in its wheels and if it was too tall id break the tack welds and shorten the link...

well link gets longer to lower the bike, so I had to weld these peices I had cut off of the link back on to lengthen it. it sits a little low now, but it is on 18's Im gonna wait til I get some 20's or 22's to change it. also first time it didnt want to move much, when I changed it I put the link a little lower and now when I sit on it it sags just over 2 inches and when riding it it doesnt really feel very stiff at all, I do have it at its softest though. I also cant really ride it yet cuz the battery was in the nerf bar with my foot holding it down, wires running everywhere, regulator taped on, etc...

since then I have the regulator mount welded on and the solenoid bolted on, I got the wiring mostly done and just ordered my start control for the bars, and my battery box is 90% done but I didnt get to work on it at all yesterday cuz I couldnt stop pukin.

I think my link might have been a little overkill, lol but whatever, peice of mind is worth it I guess. I also still gotta put the grinder to it a bit and paint it, but there more welding to be done and Im gonna wait til its all done, strip it down and paint everything.

[AGPallstar109]

ok well i just got a 250r rear shock a stock one for the time being, i went to put it on, and the top mount bracket is way too long to fit in the bracket for the bolt on the shock, what do i do?

[Project300]

i am assuming you meant too wide? You have to grind the top of the shock down to make it fit. There is no other way.

[maddmatt02]

yeah i had to grind a ton on mine.