Kaboom

[400exrider707]

Well, took the quad out on the lake this past weekend, the local oval was closed and unplowed, so we hit up the drag strip. Well I dont know if this was inevitable or not, but it happened... my buddy happened to be on it when it let go, but it wasn't his fault really. My guess is the piston just got way too hot and seized in the cylinder, which caused the mayhem you see below....

He was in 5th gear, nearing rev limit... and it locked right up, upon first inspection you can see the two holes punched through the cases... :ermm:

First two pics are behind the cylinder...

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e166/400exrider707/IMG_0878.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e166/400exrider707/IMG_0881.jpg



These pics are from in front of the cylinder

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e166/400exrider707/IMG_0882.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e166/400exrider707/IMG_0883.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e166/400exrider707/IMG_0886.jpg

Piston looks like it got a little warm eh? Notice how it is slightly turned inside the cylinder... also notice how it slid right out with the cylinder, and is still in the cylinder now...

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e166/400exrider707/IMG_0896.jpg

Bottom side of cylinder and piston, both are trashed. Cylinder was hit in the back part right where the rod pushed through the case. Notice the cylinder is busted, the piston is also broke. I haven't tried removing it from the cylinder yet, but I'm sure it wont be easy, not that it matters, both are junk

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e166/400exrider707/IMG_0902.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e166/400exrider707/IMG_0901.jpg

Bottom end... you can see the wristpin and end of the rod laying right on top. The bottom end is filled with cylinder bits and rod pieces...

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e166/400exrider707/IMG_0899.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e166/400exrider707/IMG_0897.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e166/400exrider707/IMG_0898.jpg



I haven't taken it apart farther than this yet, as I want to save some cash and gather parts together first. If anyone has any leads on center cases, please let me know thanks.


Luckily out of all of this, the head is still perfect. The valves and plug both look nice chocolatey brown which tells me jetting was good. Oil in it was really fresh and was still red when I took it apart, coolant was also relatively fresh. iI think the all out riding on the lake was just too much for it too quickly. I did take pics of most of the tear down, and hope to get a write up posted as I go along on how to rebuild the 04/05 450R motors bottom to top. It wont be for a bit, because I need to save some coin first.

[Pred_003]

One word...... NUKED!!!!!:eek2: :eek2:

Wow! Its like an M80 went off inside of it or something

[pro-rider46]

holy crap, looking at the almost makes me wanna cry, if i find any parts for ya. i will let you know, you know it might cost you more to rebuild it than to replace it. you can get a decent engine on ebay from about 1500-2000 and then you can salvage what you can as spares for the new one, anyways good luck with it.

[d3ktrix]

ha whoa that thing tanked good.

Sorry to hear it.

You said you thought it was too much too soon. Was the top end freshly rebuild or something?

[Flodies400ex]

wow thats crazy broke everything and just wondering why does this always crack the engine block in the years of 2004-05 450R

[d3ktrix]

Originally posted by Flodies400ex
wow thats crazy broke everything and just wondering why does this always crack the engine block in the years of 2004-05 450R

That can happen to any quad/bike engine.
The rod has to go somewhere when the piston stops dead.

[Flodies400ex]

my rod broke but not like that lol

[d3ktrix]

Originally posted by Flodies400ex
my rod broke but not like that lol

What caused it to break?

[Flodies400ex]

I got the top end done 3 days before then the bottom end just siezed up so it was under warrenty then they replaced everything free of charge

I was riding and I was as full speed and it just went clunk and stoped and went back in gear and it was real loud when I tried to start it and it was blowing out blue smoke so yea

[Flodies400ex]

I got the cylinder and its in kinda good just a little scratchs but you cant get your finger nails stuck in at all when going over them and also how much could I see this for

[d3ktrix]

Originally posted by Flodies400ex
I got the top end done 3 days before then the bottom end just siezed up so it was under warrenty then they replaced everything free of charge

I was riding and I was as full speed and it just went clunk and stoped and went back in gear and it was real loud when I tried to start it and it was blowing out blue smoke so yea

What do u mean it went back in gear?


Your crank/rod bearings went up correct?

[Flodies400ex]

I was in 5 gear pinned and it went to nutruel and it shut off


I have no idea to explain it but I have it back now and it runs great so far

[IMSROLL450R]

Dang man. Catastrophic failure. About how many hours were on it? Plans for the new motor? Can't believe the rod and the bottom of the piston both broke. Sure made a mess.

[400exrider707]

This motor didn't have a lot of hours on it, but the hours it did have were all MX racing and very abusive riding I will say.

When I said too much too soon, I meant too much throttle and probably not warmed up enough. With a forged piston such as this, and cold weather such as the winter, you really want to let it run for a good while to get heat soaked, before launching off and riding it. The piston swells too fast when it gets hot quickly and seizes in the cylinder, since the cylinder cant expand as fast as the aluminum. I'm not saying this is definitely what happened, but I know the piston got way too hot judging by the black/brown color of the piston. I think it just happened to get too hot, I do believe it was warmed up plenty, but who knows.

Like I said motor oil was still red and clean, anti-freeze was good and clean. This motor was well taken care of, just a victim of too much throttle for too long of a time.


Plans for the new motor.... faster:devil:

Baldwin 14:1 should be on its way end of the week, and I just contacted carrillo rods to inquire about their rods.

I'm planning as of now:

New center cases
New right side case (mine has a crack that was JB welded thanks to the infamous kicker and throttle problem, thanks little brother)
New OEM crank/rod (possibly a carrillo or a falicon knife rod if money permits)
New OEM cylinder
New OEM gaskets
Baldwin piston (possibly a DRG, again if money permits)
New valves
New springs
Maybe some port work
All new bearings in bottom end. This will be the second failure that some of the bearings have seen, so I think it's wise to replace them now, plus it will be that much easier putting new bearings into the new case pieces.

That's it for the motor, the rest of the quad could probably use an overhaul too... gonna take a while to accumulate the cash flow for this project, but in a way I'm kind of glad it happened.:cool:

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by pro-rider46
holy crap, looking at the almost makes me wanna cry, if i find any parts for ya. i will let you know, you know it might cost you more to rebuild it than to replace it. you can get a decent engine on ebay from about 1500-2000 and then you can salvage what you can as spares for the new one, anyways good luck with it.

With brand new OEM Honda parts and some aftermarket stuff, it should be around $1000 to rebuild the motor back to running. I can do it cheaper if I find some used cases. I could also use some spare/used pistons and crank/rod assemblies my buddies and I have laying around, but that's just not something I do...;)

[Flodies400ex]

good luck and keep us posted what yea going to do.

[bloodmoney23]

it almost looks as if the jetting was off a little bit for the weather for the piston to get that hot. It could have been your oil rings jacked up and wasnt gettin no oil to it. That really sucks man and the only thing i can offer to the rebuild fund is a stock piston still like new. Im sure you already have one though. Anyway sorry to see that happen and good luck with rebuild.

[IMSROLL450R]

One of my good friends is running a baldwin and really likes it. I think thats the next piston Im going with too, Chino seems to really like them. Are there any advantages to that knife rod other than the weight difference?

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by IMSROLL450R
One of my good friends is running a baldwin and really likes it. I think thats the next piston Im going with too, Chino seems to really like them. Are there any advantages to that knife rod other than the weight difference?

I'm buying the baldwin off of chino...

I've contacted JE about their pro series 13.8:1 piston. I found out this afternoon I get smoking deals on Carrillo rods, JE, Wiseco, Pro-x, Vertex, and a few other choice companies through my parent company Dover Corporation. I wont list prices, but it's a darn good deal, well below dealer cost. I'm waiting to hear back on the JE, but I'll still snag that Baldwin in the mean time.

The knife rod has a ton of advantages, it is a well engineered piece. If I had the cash, I'd go with a full falicon supercrank setup. Their rods are the "most streamlined" in the industry, or so they claim. They are designed like an airplane wing to resist twisting and turbulence inside the cylinder. Pretty cool. Check out their website, they have a lot of cool stuff, including their 600CC kit for this motor.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by bloodmoney23
it almost looks as if the jetting was off a little bit for the weather for the piston to get that hot. It could have been your oil rings jacked up and wasnt gettin no oil to it. That really sucks man and the only thing i can offer to the rebuild fund is a stock piston still like new. Im sure you already have one though. Anyway sorry to see that happen and good luck with rebuild.


Like I said, jetting looked good, if not a little rich. The valves and plug were a nice chocolate brown, maybe a little too dark (indicates slightly rich) It just got ran too hard is all...


Here's a pic of the head, dont mind the wet spot, I just set it in oil on accident.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e166/400exrider707/IMG_0894.jpg

[smithn1683]

your motor probably committed suicide cause it was sick and tired of listening to that loud arse pipe on there.:blah:

Whats ironic about this whole thing is its the 2nd time its blown up on the same lake by people other then you. Let me know what you need for parts you know what I have for the the most part. I know you will be needing that shim kit. Ill cut you in on the friends price of only $9.79 per shim.:devil:

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by smithn1683
your motor probably committed suicide cause it was sick and tired of listening to that loud arse pipe on there.:blah:

Whats ironic about this whole thing is its the 2nd time its blown up on the same lake by people other then you. Let me know what you need for parts you know what I have for the the most part. I know you will be needing that shim kit. Ill cut you in on the friends price of only $9.79 per shim.:devil:


First blow up was from misuse by someone other than myself though, and was a much more cost effective rebuild... this one I believe was no ones fault per say, but it's going to cost me a pretty penny. I blame the lake... only $9.79 a shim? Wow what a guy! I'm going to start charging you for technical information then... no more picking my brain for free!:blah:

[Fast470r]

I had a crank and a lot of other parts untill
the Ice storm we got a few weeks ago when a tree fell and knocked a hole in my shed and filled the bucket with the parts with water.

[d3ktrix]

Originally posted by Fast470r
I had a crank and a lot of other parts untill
the Ice storm we got a few weeks ago when a tree fell and knocked a hole in my shed and filled the bucket with the parts with water.

Thats some crappy luck. lol

[400exrider707]

The verdict is in:

Wristpin Circlip caused this.... I dont know how, but it must have come out, which is crazy, those JE circlips were some of the strongest I've ever put in. I've seen another thread on a different forum of a member complaining that the JE piston itself failed... I dont think I'll ever know.