Just Got Back From the DYNO! [Archive]

GoLikeHell

11-19-2002, 08:06 AM

Originally posted by Big - D Racing
One dyno will give a different reading then another dyno machine. There are different models and programing options for the dynos. I'd hate to tell you but a standard bore will not produce 36hp. I have a 11:1 440, racing web cam, edelbrock carb, port + polish, 3 angle valve job, sparks x-6 exhaust, and more. It's been dynoed at 40.4hp at the rear wheels by Sam Coe Performance (their raptor was just on the cover of dirtwheels a few months ago). A stock banshee pulls about 38hp. A piped toomey usually 44-45hp. I doubt cool heads add 10hp, more like 1hp max, unless your not mentioning something like high comp. piston. I believe that machine told you 36hp, I think the machine is off though. I bet if I ran mine on that machine I'd get like 46-48 hp.

First off, what is your sea level you had your bike Dynoed? Second did they use a wideband O2 to tell you how your bike is tuned in? I tuned mine with a 5 gas analyzer before even going to the dyno. Sorry to hear your MODS didnt give you what you thought, maybe you should find a real tuner.

BTW the banshee I can not defend on what parts it has, I did not build it. But again it did run the numbers I posted. If you have any dought in this please go over to bansheeHQ and ask 100 horse shooter what both bikes ran. Chris was working on his drag bike while we dynoed.

Thanks for all the kind words
Mark

GoLikeHell

11-19-2002, 08:11 AM

Originally posted by SpeedBump
Nice to see so many helpful people. (yes, that was sarcastic) Hey Mark, ignore them, maybe they will go away, or at least learn to be a little more tactful.

Thanks!!!

Not really to many Mechaincs, more like too many know it alls!. I am still going to post the pics of the dyno runs for everyone to see. If I get bashed for showing true data I will just become a lurker and hope everyone the best.

Thanks again!
Mark

Taco

11-19-2002, 08:17 AM

Originally posted by GoLikeHell

Thanks!!!

Not really to many Mechaincs, more like too many know it alls!. I am still going to post the pics of the dyno runs for everyone to see. If I get bashed for showing true data I will just become a lurker and hope everyone the best.

Thanks again!
Mark
I think you misunderstood what Big D was saying. It is common knowledge that 2 different dynos will not show the same measurements on the same vehicle being dynoed. Every dyno reads different. I wish you would've dynoed you 400ex stock and then went back again after your mods.

GoLikeHell

11-19-2002, 08:20 AM

Originally posted by crazy canadian
i think big d racing is right. if a dyno is not properly calibrated the numbers can be off a lot! i'm not tryin' to call you a liar!! just that the numbers sound off, that's all.

Here we go again, its easy to sit back and say that doesnt sound right. WOW next time I do a mod im going to just ask B-D racing! since everyone agree's with a guy who has never seen my bike on what it should run.

If you are so set on proving me wrong, call Dynoedege.com and ask them how my bike ran.

Mark

JhallettEX

11-19-2002, 08:28 AM

Those Hotcams are something else!

GoLikeHell

11-19-2002, 08:32 AM

Originally posted by Taco

I think you misunderstood what Big D was saying. It is common knowledge that 2 different dynos will not show the same measurements on the same vehicle being dynoed. Every dyno reads different. I wish you would've dynoed you 400ex stock and then went back again after your mods.

I did not baseline my quad due since i didnt know of Dynoedge at that time. They did have a baseline (actual run) of 25.9 hp, and my Sea Level is 630. No I did read it right, cant anyone ever be happy someone did well? No we have to bash everything first!

I am far from being a punk kid, **** I was tuning cars before most of the people on this list was still crapping green. I have a 12 second Omni sitting in my garage, and have TUNED by calibrations a 10.84 Rampage. I am so sick of hearing about I drove it down the street and it FEELS like i got so much more power. What I found with MY Bike ( others will differ) that running the bike fat did give the Butt-O-meter a false sense of power due to the slight bog into power.

Mark

maxximus

11-19-2002, 08:59 AM

Well I am going to dyno my 350x soon and will post results!!!

TC Motor and sounds like a harley at idle!!:D

YEA BABY!!

Racing Rice

11-19-2002, 09:02 AM

Congrats on the good Dyno run.

ChadEXer

11-19-2002, 09:11 AM

Originally posted by maxximus
Well I am going to dyno my 350x soon and will post results!!!

TC Motor and sounds like a harley at idle!!:D

YEA BABY!!
Hey man, my TC motor sounds like a Harley too!:) I will have it on the dyno pretty soon!!

GoLikeHell

11-19-2002, 09:48 AM

Thanks to everyone's good reply's. Since i know some of you want to see the dyno runs I took digital pics of them. Later I will add them off a scanner. Dyno run 7 is the 36.5 Hp run, I know its hard to read, but my son decided this morning to doodle on dyno run 7. I will get a clean copy for everyone to view.

GoLikeHell

11-19-2002, 09:49 AM

36.3 run. Enjoy!

KAWSAM62

11-19-2002, 10:21 AM

its real!:cool:

11-19-2002, 10:27 AM

Was that reading at the wheels or the motor??

I never thought my quad would have that much HP and I got more motor mods than you..I hope mine has as much as that or more..I'd be happy pappy,,thanks fer the info dude..:cool:

GoLikeHell

11-19-2002, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by Rico
Was that reading at the wheels or the motor??

I never thought my quad would have that much HP and I got more motor mods than you..I hope mine has as much as that or more..I'd be happy pappy,,thanks fer the info dude..:cool:

That was at the wheels.

The only thing done to my bike that I didnt list is I cleaned up the exh ports and the welds in the pipe.

Once i get back to work ill get everything scanned for everyone to view. I did talk to the owner and he would be more then happy to have a dyno day at his place. You could go get a baseline, and or have them tune your bike to perfection.

Please let me know if you would be interested in a dyno day

Mark

JustRace

11-19-2002, 11:05 AM

I would be very interested in getting my bike on the dyno.

oynot400

11-19-2002, 12:02 PM

What was the torque numbers, I didn't notice them? Do you know if that was corrected hp or actual hp? :confused:

11-19-2002, 12:04 PM

maybe we should start a thread asking if you've had a dyno run,,what were the results and what are your mods..I'd be very interested in seeing what numbers turn up with what setups.. might even help answer the 5000 questions on what pipe, carb, cam, boots ,etc ta get ta make ya go faster..:D :blah

Hoodeye3

11-19-2002, 12:23 PM

Them are comforting #s for me Toolman (mods are almost identical) Thanks for posting>

GoLikeHell

11-19-2002, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by JustRace
I would be very interested in getting my bike on the dyno.

Great, lets see how many other people from Michigan would also like to dyno. :D

GoLikeHell

11-19-2002, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by oynot400
What was the torque numbers, I didn't notice them? Do you know if that was corrected hp or actual hp? :confused:

Torque was 21.7, but I dont have a chart. After being in the building for 7 hours I forgot to have him print off my torque charts. I am going to go back after some more changes and ill grab it then.

All actual readings.

One thing to remember, your elevation WILL effect a dyno run!

Mark

GoLikeHell

11-19-2002, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by Hoodeye3
Them are comforting #s for me Toolman (mods are almost identical) Thanks for posting>

No Prob! I wanted to do this for a couple of reasons. First was to see if my mods did make a good difference. Second is to get a baseline for my next step in performance. Third is to show everyone you dont need a new quad to make good HP, just a couple hundered bucks and spend a lot of time tuning.

Mark

GoLikeHell

11-19-2002, 01:38 PM

Here is a pic with my bike on the dyno

Castor-426ex

11-19-2002, 01:44 PM

those rear tires are fricken huge what are they?

Scott

11-19-2002, 01:44 PM

What are those tires on the rear, BF Goodrich Radial TA's?!?!?!

GoLikeHell

11-19-2002, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by Castor-400ex
those rear tires are fricken huge what are they?

LOL, they had to put them on for the dyno run, and yes they are huge! Really they need a slick (Smooth) tire to get a real good reading. If I knew that I had to switch tires I would of not used a 16 tooth front gear. Im happy with the results

Mark

JustRace

11-19-2002, 02:42 PM

Depending on how much time I would have to plan i'm sure I could bring down 2 banshees and a stock raptor too.

Big - D Racing

11-19-2002, 03:02 PM

Ok guy, you aren't hearing us. I never said I didn't believe your results. I said just because you got 36.5 on that dyno, you could go to another dyno and get 33.5hp. Even ask dirt wheels, they'll tell you you'll get different numbers on every dyno. My machine is fine tuned by Duncan Racing and I will bet depending on what dyno I run, it will produce from as low as 38hp to as high as 46hp. I wasn't bashing you calling you a liar. If there was a true dyno that gave a proven exact number it wouldn't be 36.5, I guarantee it.

bklyn400ex

11-19-2002, 03:30 PM

how much does it cost 2 get a bike on a dyno??

Big - D Racing

11-19-2002, 03:48 PM

To have mine dynoed and fine tuned to pump max power on the dyno cost like $100

11-19-2002, 04:00 PM

awsome results!!!!!!!

11-19-2002, 04:05 PM

A place near me charges $20 for a dyno run,,, but that's not including any tuning..you have it tuned before ya get there..I'll be taken mine down straight from the engine builder here in about a month..woo hoo

Steven

11-19-2002, 04:49 PM

Gentleman.

Have you not noticed that "GoLikeHell's" dyno sheet reads "STD" HP on the side bar? THIS is the reason his power numbers are depicted being higher than what we would expect to see with his bike's modifications.

Why?

The dyno sheet he has shown us is not "corrected" or "SAE" HP. Therefor, its numbers will be unusually high. Let me explain.

The SAE (society of automotive engineers) dynograph program corrects for altitude, temperature, barametric pressure, and humidity. The idea is to be able to compare dyno runs which have been made under different operating conditions and on different dynos. "STD" HP is the actual HP his bike made, but it cannot be compared to the vast majority of published dyno runs.

For example, when I used to dyno my car back in my race days, I could get two different power readings from my dyno operator. The STD program would depict 186 HP and the SAE program would depict 172 HP.

It is unusual for a dyno operator to show or print a customer STD dyno plots for they cannot be acurately measured against anothers run on a diffferent day at a different elevation on a different dyno. This is why ATV publications and 99.9% of dyno operators will use the SAE dyno graph. Corrected, it can be more appropriately compared to others.

His SAE power would be more like 30HP and this is what he needs to post.

GoLikeHell, I suggest you have the dyno guy print you up an SAE plot of your run. Post it, then we can evaluate your run.

Thanks, Steve.

Ex_Rider43

11-19-2002, 05:30 PM

sound good to me steven.

my friend took his banshee on the dyno and got a 56hp reading.
he have a 404 big bore, cpi's,powerhead,pyramids , 34mm keihin's carbs,motor is ported, pro design timing plate , filter etc...... I think the reading you got is wrong .

crazy canadian

11-19-2002, 06:06 PM

sorry if i offended you golikehell, i didn't want to bash you. i wasn't aware of the sae and the std ways of checking hp on the dyno. all the other numbers i have seen must have been sae. your numbers are right, just on another scale, that's all. sorry.

GoLikeHell

11-19-2002, 07:55 PM

Originally posted by Big - D Racing
Ok guy, you aren't hearing us. I never said I didn't believe your results. I said just because you got 36.5 on that dyno, you could go to another dyno and get 33.5hp. Even ask dirt wheels, they'll tell you you'll get different numbers on every dyno. My machine is fine tuned by Duncan Racing and I will bet depending on what dyno I run, it will produce from as low as 38hp to as high as 46hp. I wasn't bashing you calling you a liar. If there was a true dyno that gave a proven exact number it wouldn't be 36.5, I guarantee it.

You crack me up, not a true dyno!! Yeah I made the dyno from a couple 5 gallon drums fillled with water, and the electronics was a hampster with a magneto strapped to it.

So your saying no one can get a bike tuned as well as Duncan racing? Sorry guy, there is other tuners that can do as good or better then them. Can you please post your dyno sheets so everyone can see your proof of turning those number.

Buddy I ran on a real dyno last night, the room was 74 deg, I am under 1000 elevation.

If you have any questions about it being a true dyno please go visit www.dynoedge.com and email John or Scott about it.

Thanks
Mark

GoLikeHell

11-19-2002, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by Steven
Gentleman.

Have you not noticed that "GoLikeHell's" dyno sheet reads "STD" HP on the side bar? THIS is the reason his power numbers are depicted being higher than what we would expect to see with his bike's modifications.

Why?

The dyno sheet he has shown us is not "corrected" or "SAE" HP. Therefor, its numbers will be unusually high. Let me explain.

The SAE (society of automotive engineers) dynograph program corrects for altitude, temperature, barametric pressure, and humidity. The idea is to be able to compare dyno runs which have been made under different operating conditions and on different dynos. "STD" HP is the actual HP his bike made, but it cannot be compared to the vast majority of published dyno runs.

For example, when I used to dyno my car back in my race days, I could get two different power readings from my dyno operator. The STD program would depict 186 HP and the SAE program would depict 172 HP.

It is unusual for a dyno operator to show or print a customer STD dyno plots for they cannot be acurately measured against anothers run on a diffferent day at a different elevation on a different dyno. This is why ATV publications and 99.9% of dyno operators will use the SAE dyno graph. Corrected, it can be more appropriately compared to others.

His SAE power would be more like 30HP and this is what he needs to post.

GoLikeHell, I suggest you have the dyno guy print you up an SAE plot of your run. Post it, then we can evaluate your run.

Thanks, Steve.

Steve, yes you are correct about it not being a SAE run. I would only like to know what my SAE hp is, but i want to know what it ran at my elevation, and that temp of the day( thats what I race in). The difference from std and sae will be different in all cases due to elevation. SAE is always perfect elevation, weather, and temp.

No one in high elevation would want a SAE run to test for HP, they would have super high numbers and wonder why the car doesnt perform at the track.

I will call and find out what my hp would of been in SAE and report it back to everyone.

Thanks Steve for pointing that out
Mark

GoLikeHell

11-19-2002, 08:09 PM

Ok guy, you aren't hearing us.

Got a mouse in your pocket? :-)

I never said I didn't believe your results. I said just because you got 36.5 on that dyno, you could go to another dyno and get 33.5hp.

Thats understandable, but why bash someone who finally brings some proof to this forum instead of my BUTT-O-METER says it rocks.

Even ask dirt wheels, they'll tell you you'll get different numbers on every dyno. My machine is fine tuned by Duncan Racing and I will bet depending on what dyno I run, it will produce from as low as 38hp to as high as 46hp. I wasn't bashing you calling you a liar. If there was a true dyno that gave a proven exact number it wouldn't be 36.5, I guarantee it.

I have nothing more to prove, I have shown everyone what I ran yesterday. If you need to bash me, fine go right ahead. But lets see your dyno sheets!! post away!!

Mark

GoLikeHell

11-19-2002, 08:10 PM

Originally posted by Big - D Racing
To have mine dynoed and fine tuned to pump max power on the dyno cost like $100

LETS SEE THE DYNO SHEETS!!!

talk is cheap, POST!

Mark

GoLikeHell

11-19-2002, 08:13 PM

Originally posted by Rico
A place near me charges $20 for a dyno run,,, but that's not including any tuning..you have it tuned before ya get there..I'll be taken mine down straight from the engine builder here in about a month..woo hoo

Rico, that will be the best 20 dollars you will ever spend. Even if you dont care about the HP numbers it will let you see the HP peak ( SAE and STD are the same here). I found out i was shifting to early while drag racing with my buddies.

Mark

GoLikeHell

11-19-2002, 08:14 PM

Originally posted by EXracer8601
awsome results!!!!!!!

Thanks!

GoLikeHell

11-19-2002, 08:24 PM

Originally posted by ex_rider52
sound good to me steven.

my friend took his banshee on the dyno and got a 56hp reading.
he have a 404 big bore, cpi's,powerhead,pyramids , 34mm keihin's carbs,motor is ported, pro design timing plate , filter etc...... I think the reading you got is wrong .

Maybe your Buddies is wrong? What is your elevation?

Mark

Big - D Racing

11-19-2002, 09:47 PM

Go like **** you are an idiot! You don't get a single thing i'm saying. I said I believe your readings, I will search for my dyno runs and post it to prove i'm not talking crap, and mine are SAE hp. Mine also show torque and they compare them to a stock 400ex. All i'm saying is there are different model dyno machines. If I had two of them one will give a reading of 38 hp while the other will give 36.5 You get different reading per different dyno. I hope you finally understand. Many people are trying to tell you this politely, but you can't get thru your head. I didn't even realize about the SAE part, but that would lower it considerably and that is how the industry measures their hp, SAE.

Big - D Racing

11-19-2002, 09:57 PM

Heres mine dynoed without my edelbrock carb at 37.9 max hp! With the carb is around 41 dynoed, I just cant find those results. Notice mine also says SAE CORRECTED HORSEPOWER on the left side. On the bottom it says what model dyno it is, that's because there is so many different models out there like I said, that give different readings! Now that you seen this stop talking crap.

MX MadMann

11-19-2002, 09:59 PM

i sure am glad stupidity isnt contagious. i would have had a lethal dose by now. big-d , its people like runlikehell that have caused the downfall of human civilizations. people who seem to be inable to grasp what other people are trying to say to them. closed mindedness is a plague opon the human race. runlikehell , when i first began to read this thread, i had a bit of faith in your competence in the field of atv's but now i have lost all. take my advice and listen to what big-d is saying , he seems to know more than you could ever fathom.

Big - D Racing

11-19-2002, 10:00 PM

It is comparing my bike to a stock 400ex. Here's my bike.

GoLikeHell

11-19-2002, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by Big - D Racing
Go like **** you are an idiot! You don't get a single thing i'm saying. I said I believe your readings, I will search for my dyno runs and post it to prove i'm not talking crap, and mine are SAE hp. Mine also show torque and they compare them to a stock 400ex. All i'm saying is there are different model dyno machines. If I had two of them one will give a reading of 38 hp while the other will give 36.5 You get different reading per different dyno. I hope you finally understand. Many people are trying to tell you this politely, but you can't get thru your head. I didn't even realize about the SAE part, but that would lower it considerably and that is how the industry measures their hp, SAE.

Big Dump Racing,

I am really sorry I even posted anything to this forum. I am far from being an idiot, and I have never called you one. I thought this might bring out a good thread, but all i have been doing is defending what I did.

BTW I posted this before seeing Big D's dyno chart. Nice run! can you please list your mods during that run. No I am not looking for a fight, more i want to see what you have done to get your HP

Thanks to everyone who replied to this thread ( even you Big D). I have nothing to prove to anyone on this forum, just wanted to share some readings i pulled off a slightly modded 400ex.

So next time someone has any real proof, please learn from my mistakes and make sure it follows the exriders guide lines.

SAE or Butt-O-meters ONLY PLEASE

Big D, no hard feelings.
Mark

GoLikeHell

11-19-2002, 10:04 PM

Originally posted by Big - D Racing
It is comparing my bike to a stock 400ex. Here's my bike.

Does red and yellow give higher SAE HP?

Mark

Sorry I had to jab back once

GoLikeHell

11-19-2002, 10:07 PM

Originally posted by MX MadMann
i sure am glad stupidity isnt contagious. i would have had a lethal dose by now. big-d , its people like runlikehell that have caused the downfall of human civilizations. people who cannot seem able to grasp what other people are trying to say to them. closed mindedness is a plague opon the human race. runlikehell , when i first began to read this thread, i had a bit of faith in your competence in the field of atv's but now i have lost all. take my advice and listen to what big-d is saying , he seems to know more than you could ever fathom.

Your not even worth replying to

Mark

MX MadMann

11-19-2002, 10:20 PM

thank you , i dont believe i could read any more of your flagrant stupidity displays.

GoLikeHell

11-19-2002, 10:29 PM

Okay Big D and everyone else who has bashed me! And all the rest of you who really just wanted to see SAE numbers here they are.

My SAE numbers are :

Dyno run 9 35.1hp
Dyno run 10 35.5hp
Dyno run 11 34.7hp
Dyno run 12 34.6hp

I will have paper proof in a couple of days. I called Dynoedge and they relayed the numbers to me. I will post all dyno runs with SAE readings.

MX Madman, Looks like i make good HP for so little mods. Huh not as stupid as you look now eh.

thanks
Mark

MX MadMann

11-19-2002, 10:38 PM

although im impressed with your numbers. you are still not understanding what you have been saying in this thread. with big-d trying to explain to you the differences in some dyno's and your inability to respond to him as a civilized person it disturbs me quite frankly.

Big - D Racing

11-19-2002, 10:43 PM

I'm telling you those numbers are virtually impossible with a standard bore unless you have like a 12:1 JE piston or higher, full race port & polish, race cam, valve job, race exhaust, aftermarket carb basically the works. Your 11:1 wiseco piston is a true 9.5:1 compression, which is barely over stock compression. Don't believe me call Mickey Dunlap at Four Stroke Tech he will tell you the same (he's been building engines for like 25 years and he races them). Mickey is also on these forums, so find him and ask him. I believe that those numbers are true that machine produced for you, but I would have to believe the machine isn't calibrated right. Contact any major engine builder they'll all tell you those numbers are impossible with what you run and they would know it is what they do for a living everyday. Those are the numbers you get from a basic 440 kit not a basic 400 kit.

GoLikeHell

11-19-2002, 11:14 PM

Big D,
I am only posting facts I have got from www.dynoedge.com. I have nothing to gain by lying, or by giving out false information. If you have any questions about the dyno and how they run thier buisness, please give them a call and ask for John. If you do the homework and find me another dyno within 100 miles in any direction from Livonia Michigan (48152), I will go and rerun the bike.

If the bike runs about the same numbers, you pay for it! If not I will repost my lower times and ill pay for it!

Now its on you!

Mark

Big - D Racing

11-19-2002, 11:25 PM

Again I said I believe that is what that machine gave you. I'm not calling you a liar, i'm just saying that machine can not be calibrated right, because those numbers are impossible with your mods. If you do a run some where else your numbers will probably be a lot different. Just how someone said his friends supped up 405 banshee only pulls 56 and your friens pulls 55 nearly stock, impossible. The machine you using is wrong, that is all i'm saying. You are not lying about the numbers it told you. I hope you undestand what i'm trying to tell you. I'd bet $1000 my 400ex on that dyno would have a reading between 45-50 max hp based off the numbers your giving for your 400 and your friends banshee. If you ever find another place near you that dyno's test your bike I think it will be a lot different. Realistically your bike should pull around 29-31 hp max. Being a stock pulls 27 and yours is basically stock, slightly modified. Your bike should pull even or slightly ahead with a Suzuki Z400.

370 banshee

11-19-2002, 11:32 PM

Sounds like you put this golikehell through the ringer big d! You first bash his Numbers are no good, then he provides actual data then you bash him becuse it,s not SAE. Then he gets SAE reading for you and you still don,t beleave him. It sounds like to me that you are embaressed to admit your mods are 2 hp more than his (41 hp, no paper no proof )

I see golikehell has posted that he has offered to nerun his quad at your expense . Big D i don,t think you have the balls to take him up on that offer. But we will see if big d can put his money were his mouth is

bye big DONG racing

lilpoppy

11-19-2002, 11:33 PM

this is by far the most entertaining thread i have read on this entire forum. It is extremely funny. Golikehell you arent listening! Just relax and understand that no one is calling you a liar and i believe you 100% that you dyno says you put out those numbers. However I'm deffinatly no expert but I find it hard to believe that you gained around 8-9 hp with those mods. Maby if you would have tested your quad before those mods you would have had solid proof but in my oppinion (and this is only my oppinion) I think your stock numbers would have been reading higher that honda will tell you that their motors run at. That is all everyone is trying to say but hey the only thin that matters is that you are happy. You have proof that your quad ran those numbers and that is great. Anywase I'm not trying to bash you or anything but I have to say I agree with the other guys on this one. Just my 2 cents.

GoLikeHell

11-19-2002, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by Big - D Racing
Again I said I believe that is what that machine gave you. I'm not calling you a liar, i'm just saying that machine can not be calibrated right, because those numbers are impossible with your mods. If you do a run some where else your numbers will probably be a lot different. Just how someone said his friends supped up 405 banshee only pulls 56 and your friens pulls 55 nearly stock, impossible. The machine you using is wrong, that is all i'm saying. You are not lying about the numbers it told you. I hope you undestand what i'm trying to tell you. I'd bet $1000 my 400ex on that dyno would have a reading between 45-50 max hp based off the numbers your giving for your 400 and your friends banshee. If you ever find another place near you that dyno's test your bike I think it will be a lot different. Realistically your bike should pull around 29-31 hp max. Being a stock pulls 27 and yours is basically stock, slightly modified. Your bike should pull even or slightly ahead with a Suzuki Z400.

Please look at my post before yours. Your bike is not in question here, mine is. You find me a dyno 100 miles away from Livonia Michigan and I will spend my time to double check my numbers. You pay if they come out close to the same or more.

It's up to you
Mark

GoLikeHell

11-19-2002, 11:46 PM

Originally posted by lilpoppy
this is by far the most entertaining thread i have read on this entire forum. It is extremely funny. Golikehell you arent listening! Just relax and understand that no one is calling you a liar and i believe you 100% that you dyno says you put out those numbers. However I'm deffinatly no expert but I find it hard to believe that you gained around 8-9 hp with those mods. Maby if you would have tested your quad before those mods you would have had solid proof but in my oppinion (and this is only my oppinion) I think your stock numbers would have been reading higher that honda will tell you that their motors run at. That is all everyone is trying to say but hey the only thin that matters is that you are happy. You have proof that your quad ran those numbers and that is great. Anywase I'm not trying to bash you or anything but I have to say I agree with the other guys on this one. Just my 2 cents.

I glad you are enjoying this post as much as I am. :D maybe I would of had more standings in here if I was a post whore, or bought a ton of aftermarket parts for my bike.

Thanks for the reply
Mark

nakomis0

11-19-2002, 11:54 PM

I believe those are the Dyno #'s you got. ..but, I think they are off aswell.

DynoEdge, is new to dyno'ing, I think he may need to do some calibrating. I have also seen his website and you should see the HP gains he claiming just from a port job.:rolleyes:

I had my bike dyno'd on the 'Exact' machine you did. Except it was owned by Eric, who use to run Mobiledyno.com, but he sold his machine to the guys at Dynoedge. Eric, also worked for Vito's performance, and he did many dynos for Vito, thus getting alot of experiance.... but anyways...

My dyno, with the mods list below, except the FCR. I got 34hp.
This run wasn't run with slicks, sadly I had to use the stock tires, which lost me a hp or 2, because it was more bouncy. I have quite a few mods. So thats why your #'s are a lil hard for me to believe.

**JustRace, I wanna try and get a bunch of guys to go get Dyno'd next summer. If you wanna wait to then we all can go. The guy is pretty cheap too. I can't recall but when I was trying to get this setup last summer it was like $40 each , (that was with about 4 guys) test and tune.

GoLikeHell

11-19-2002, 11:58 PM

Originally posted by MX MadMann
although im impressed with your numbers. you are still not understanding what you have been saying in this thread. with big-d trying to explain to you the differences in some dyno's and your inability to respond to him as a civilized person it disturbs me quite frankly.

The problem I have is I am using actual readings. Opinion's are like butt holes, everyone has one (not a flame towards you). I have posted a rerun offer to Big D, but its going to cost if he is wrong.

I never wanted this to even go this far, i just wanted everyone to see my dyno sheets and see how my mods worked out for me. I was hoping to spark an interest in getting bikes dynoed to find out what the true HP is to the ground. I think some bikes we will be surprised,and other will learn the proper way to tune.

take it for what its worth
Mark

Sorry if I disturbed you again

GoLikeHell

11-20-2002, 12:04 AM

Originally posted by nakomis0
I believe those are the Dyno #'s you got. ..but, I think they are off aswell.

DynoEdge, is new to dyno'ing, I think he may need to do some calibrating. I have also seen his website and you should see the HP gains he claiming just from a port job.:rolleyes:

I had my bike dyno'd on the 'Exact' machine you did. Except it was owned by Eric, who use to run Mobiledyno.com, but he sold his machine to the guys at Dynoedge. Eric, also worked for Vito's performance, and he did many dynos for Vito, thus getting alot of experiance.... but anyways...

My dyno, with the mods list below, except the FCR. I got 34hp.
This run wasn't run with slicks, sadly I had to use the stock tires, which lost me a hp or 2, because it was more bouncy. I have quite a few mods. So thats why your #'s are a lil hard for me to believe.

**JustRace, I wanna try and get a bunch of guys to go get Dyno'd next summer. If you wanna wait to then we all can go. The guy is pretty cheap too. I can't recall but when I was trying to get this setup last summer it was like $40 each , (that was with about 4 guys) test and tune.

Great another MI guy!
Do you know another Dyno around here I can try? I talked to John tonight and he is willing to do a dyno day, but cost all depends on what you want done and how fast we can get bikes in and out. I wouldnt mind working with you to get a good number of quads together and make a good day of it.

Let me know
Mark

Big - D Racing

11-20-2002, 12:10 AM

Ok, if you lived near me I would take that offer, but you are who knows how many miles away from me. You can go to another company with a crappy machine. I will never know, I can't verify the condition and accuracy of another dyno, so of course I won't take that bet. But, just believe me and every one else that dyno is wrong. I too went on their website and they claim 72hp from a stock banshee that they do a "mild trail port job" too. And 100hp with a drag race port on a stock banshee. Yeah right! Maybe with their dyno, but no one else's. You can not get 32hp with a mild port job. You'd be lucky if you got 5hp! That company has their machine rigged to run high. Test it some where else though just to see, and no I won't pay. You can tell everybody you've been dynoed at 36, but mention the dyno maybe off by 6hp or so.

nakomis0

11-20-2002, 12:11 AM

I'd like to do another dyno. Right now my bike is just getting torn down, and getting ready for a suspension upgrade.:D Probably won't be complete till around Feb.

But after then I would be good. Summertimes a nice time to get dyno'd and tuned, just because the temp. and humidity, are closer to what you normaly ride in, so when they tune it, its set for summertime temps.

..oh ya and thats the only dyno I know of around here.

GoLikeHell

11-20-2002, 12:39 AM

Originally posted by Big - D Racing
Ok, if you lived near me I would take that offer, but you are who knows how many miles away from me. You can go to another company with a crappy machine. I will never know, I can't verify the condition and accuracy of another dyno, so of course I won't take that bet. But, just believe me and every one else that dyno is wrong. I too went on their website and they claim 72hp from a stock banshee that they do a "mild trail port job" too. And 100hp with a drag race port on a stock banshee. Yeah right! Maybe with their dyno, but no one else's. You can not get 32hp with a mild port job. You'd be lucky if you got 5hp! That company has their machine rigged to run high. Test it some where else though just to see, and no I won't pay. You can tell everybody you've been dynoed at 36, but mention the dyno maybe off by 6hp or so.

Im sorry, you will not be happy till i am proved wrong. I gave you the option of finding me another dyno 100 miles away for me. You can call and ask them anything you want. I am willing to kill one of my free days to prove you right and you still dont take the offer.I think im being more then fair here.

Might make you wonder if your dyno didnt cheat you.

About your high knowledge of Banshee's, I can not commnet on since I do not know much about them. Why dont you call them and ask about there trail ports and different mods. Call and ask for Chris, he is a great guy and maybe he might know a thing or two since his banshee runs 11's in the quarter mile. While my buddies banshee was on the dyno Scott said some things that didnt make sense to me, but he was able to back his statements up with an increase in HP. Now even if his dyno reads high, an increase is a increase.

Big D, Please send a list of your mods. I am going back to Dynoedge this week and I want to talk to John about maybe he does have a problem, but without proper paper work its very hard to prove a point ( god I know that to well LOL).

When they dynoed your quad, did they use a wideband to jet it for you properly? If you notice on my charts there is a a/f reading for the whole run. I tested mine before the dyno with a OTC mobile 5 gas analyzer and came up with about the same readings. Load variations will change it.

Thanks
Mark

GoLikeHell

11-20-2002, 12:45 AM

Originally posted by nakomis0
I'd like to do another dyno. Right now my bike is just getting torn down, and getting ready for a suspension upgrade.:D Probably won't be complete till around Feb.

But after then I would be good. Summertimes a nice time to get dyno'd and tuned, just because the temp. and humidity, are closer to what you normaly ride in, so when they tune it, its set for summertime temps.

..oh ya and thats the only dyno I know of around here.

Glad to hear it isn't being torn down because something decided it was time to leave.

Okay ill talk to John about setting up something and we can work it out together. Any good riding places by you? The Mounds blows, and the next place is right about on the ohio border. Since I am home due to carpal tunnel surgery I cant ride for about another 6 weeks.

all you post whores think about carpal tunnel!!!

Mark

Big - D Racing

11-20-2002, 01:16 AM

That's true an increase is an increase except on that dyno a minor increase may look like a major one. My bike was dynoed to get maxium power by fine tuning my carb and everything else Sam Coe could.
My mod's:
440 kit 11:1
web cam 450/451 grind
valve springs with titamiun retainer
hardend rockers
3 angle valve job
ported and polished
6 degree advanced timing
edelbrock carb set up perfect for my bike by Duncan Racing
k&n air filter
aluminum air box with no lid and side air holes
complete X-6 Curtis Sparks Exhaust
FST's oil cooler kit
FST's no limit rev box
I think that's it, but there may be more this is off the top of my head and all is completely true. I also run VP C-12 108 octane gas straight through it. And yes I know a descent amount about banshee's, I had 2 before and I ride with a lot of people who own and ride them. I go to Glamis all the time and the Banshee is king out there.

GoLikeHell

11-20-2002, 01:26 AM

Originally posted by Big - D Racing
That's true an increase is an increase except on that dyno a minor increase may look like a major one. My bike was dynoed to get maxium power by fine tuning my carb and everything else Sam Coe could.
My mod's:
440 kit 11:1
web cam 450/451 grind
valve springs with titamiun retainer
hardend rockers
3 angle valve job
ported and polished
6 degree advanced timing
edelbrock carb set up perfect for my bike by Duncan Racing
k&n air filter
aluminum air box with no lid and side air holes
complete X-6 Curtis Sparks Exhaust
FST's oil cooler kit
FST's no limit rev box
I think that's it, but there may be more this is off the top of my head and all is completely true. I also run VP C-12 108 octane gas straight through it.

ALRIGHT!! we agree on one thing WOO WOO!!

OKay I got some questions, please do not think im flaming.

Very impressive list of mods, was all the work done at Duncan Racing? Do they flow test each head and give you flow numbers? I know some people say the degree key doesnt work well with big bores, but did you feel a difference? I have been looking into that Edelbrock, but wondered if it was worth the price?

When Sam setup your carb and fine tunes it, did he use a wide band O2 system on the dyno, or just check the plug?

If you dont want to answer my questions I do understand.

Thanks
Mark

Big - D Racing

11-20-2002, 01:41 AM

Most of it was done at Duncan. The 440 kit, porting, and valve job were. I honestly can't tell you if they flow tested each head valve because I didn't get a print out. The timing advance is a Curtis Sparks key and was put in by Sam Coe. It works well with all bore sizes, but is not recomenned for anything no matter the bore size over a 11:1 compression because that timing won't work well. That is what a lot of people say about the timing and bore sizes, but the compression is what matters not the bore size. With your bike it would add power probably about 1/2 to 1 hp increase and it's only $15 from Curtis Sparks, it's worth it if you ask me. It did add like 1/2hp increase on my bike and FST recommends it also with my compression. My edelbrock cost me $370 brand new and was worth every penny. I love it, although I've heard the FCR's add about 1/2 more hp than the edelbrock. The edelbrock uses a jetless carb that is amazing. You don't have to adjust it for altitude changes. I don't know what kind of system he uses to ceck the carb, but I really doubt he just does a plug check. He had my bike for 2 days, so I didn't watch the work first hand. In the 2 days he did my timing and the dyno runs and tuning. The dyno chart I posted was with my stock carb and no ignition advance.

400ex99

11-20-2002, 02:24 AM

i'm from Groves, texas. i live right behind Wal-Mart. Where do you ride mostly? im putting a 416 kit in mine right now, down for now.... :D

ridinthedunes

11-20-2002, 02:40 AM

I know one thing, if I ever get my bike dynoed, I won't
be posting the numbers.......Jesus, doesn't anyone know
how to act anymore. I guess maybe with all the chat rooms
noboday has people skills anymore. Don't get me wrong,
I'm not saying anyone in this thread "meant" to start anything,
I just don't think people are thinking before they type. Things
are sometimes taken very differently on paper then in
person. Pretty sure this wouldn't have seemed like such a
big deal if everyone was sitting around a fire having a couple
beers.
"can't we all just get along":)
R/T

ridinthedunes

11-20-2002, 02:43 AM

I forgot to thank golikehell for posting the runs. I hope to
see more in the future.
R/T

Buzzsaw

11-20-2002, 09:16 AM

If you guy live near dallas,tx there a guy thats got a dyno just northeast of dallas.

YZROOSTINYA

11-20-2002, 09:46 AM

per white bros

a 10:5.1 piston, all around cam, full e-series exhaust, no lid and jetting will produce 30-31 hp.

thats what the graph shows on the back of my exhaust sheet that i got from wb. the stage 2 might give you a little more up top like 1-2 hp MAX.

i have a 416 10:8-1 and a stage 2. i dont think even my numbers are that high.

i am now curious as to what my bike would dyno at.

no bashing just dont see those mild mods producing such large figures

MX MadMann

11-20-2002, 10:13 AM

hey 400ex99 , do you have an aol or aim SN? i used to ride alot at the mxtracks around here and houston but not in a while. i usually ride it across highway 69 from the prison. theres some good spots out there and i like to bring it to the evadale drag races to cruise around on. maby we can get some friends together and ride or somthing. my email address is pimpnona400ex@aol.com.

GoLikeHell

11-20-2002, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by ridinthedunes
I forgot to thank golikehell for posting the runs. I hope to
see more in the future.
R/T

Thank you. I will post more information soon, but i think ill leave it on a web page so I dont clutter the forum up with information.

Your post about people skills is correct. And I will admit I got a little carried away. But you dont know how it feels to put ACTUAL data for people to read and get flamed. Not one person said damn I see the cam pushed the power band higher in the R's, or what is a a/f reading, and why is your running leaner then what your supposed to run.

Thanks
Mark

Scott400EX

11-20-2002, 01:28 PM

I am by no means a technical expert. And have never had my 400 dynoed. But i have almost the same mods as golikehell and i refuse to believe that they only gave me 3 or 4 more HP. A hotcams stage 2, 11.1 piston, TI valve springs, powerbong, and WB slip on. I have beaten z400s and raptors with ease more than 5+ bike lengths. i couldnt do that if the mods only upped my hp by 3 or 4.
I do know the difference in dyno's ive had my Trans Am done a few times and got different. But i just think ur not giving golikehell enough credit. 35 36 HP is not unrealistic at all.

speedfreaky

11-20-2002, 01:31 PM

my chree wheela did 34 on the dyna and its a 126 its fast

YZROOSTINYA

11-20-2002, 01:35 PM

the truth hurts, also although you are only gaing 3-4 hp PEAK hp if you look at the dyno you pick up about 10-12 at redline, that where the differance is. follow the power curve and see where it really makes the power that is needed

GoLikeHell

11-20-2002, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by speedfreaky
my chree wheela did 34 on the dyna and its a 126 its fast

Speed,
Post your dyno sheet and ill be the first to congrats you!

Mark

11-20-2002, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by speedfreaky
my chree wheela did 34 on the dyna and its a 126 its fast

:huh

GoLikeHell

11-20-2002, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by YZROOSTINYA
the truth hurts, also although you are only gaing 3-4 hp PEAK hp if you look at the dyno you pick up about 10-12 at redline, that where the differance is. follow the power curve and see where it really makes the power that is needed

I edited Big-D's Dyno chart to add my curve on his sheet for an example ONLY. This is great information to show how the power band of a 440, 400 stock, and a 400 high comp with a hotcam2. Now Big made 15hp@2300 rpm's, stock 400 was 3000rpm's, and mine didnt make it till about 4300rpm's. Now Big topped out on Hp at 6000 rpm's, stock 400 topped out around 4500 rpm's, and mine topped out around 7500 rpm's.

By evaluating the results you can see the 440 kit does bring on the hp faster then even a stock bike, and the head porting and cam is really letting it breath well. My bike shows that I can spin my bike in the high r's for its powerband. Once you learn your bike you learn how to ride without a lot of power down low. I love hearing my bike run in the higher R's, and it loves running it!

Again I am only comparing curves, I had to use a hp reading for the first reading just as an example. All figures may vary!!!

400exTN

11-20-2002, 04:11 PM

I finally read through this entire thread and don't understand why anyone would rely on a dyno. Especially, if every dyno is different what does it prove? Let me know if you would get different results in this situation.

Let's say for example I took my quad with only a full exhaust, K&N and rev box and put it on a dyno. The results came back with 29hp. I add a cam, piston, port and polish. I dyno again getting 33hp. Would the 4hp increase be accurate on a majority of dynos?

If not once again why is a dyno a big deal?

If so, why doesn't everyone dyno their quad before and after adding upgrades? This seems like a more logical way to determine how much hp was added by a piston, cam, etc...

Just my thoughts and I know nothing about a dyno and have never put my quad on a dyno.

GoLikeHell

11-20-2002, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by Big - D Racing
Most of it was done at Duncan. The 440 kit, porting, and valve job were. I honestly can't tell you if they flow tested each head valve because I didn't get a print out. The timing advance is a Curtis Sparks key and was put in by Sam Coe. It works well with all bore sizes, but is not recomenned for anything no matter the bore size over a 11:1 compression because that timing won't work well. That is what a lot of people say about the timing and bore sizes, but the compression is what matters not the bore size. With your bike it would add power probably about 1/2 to 1 hp increase and it's only $15 from Curtis Sparks, it's worth it if you ask me. It did add like 1/2hp increase on my bike and FST recommends it also with my compression. My edelbrock cost me $370 brand new and was worth every penny. I love it, although I've heard the FCR's add about 1/2 more hp than the edelbrock. The edelbrock uses a jetless carb that is amazing. You don't have to adjust it for altitude changes. I don't know what kind of system he uses to ceck the carb, but I really doubt he just does a plug check. He had my bike for 2 days, so I didn't watch the work first hand. In the 2 days he did my timing and the dyno runs and tuning. The dyno chart I posted was with my stock carb and no ignition advance.

Hi Big-D
Well I had nothing better to do today so I called Duncan racing and asked about the 440 kit. I will say they answered all my questions I had, and even gave me some more information on the kit I didnt know. BTW Duncan Racing does not advise using that degree key with the 440 kit
Now for the facts!

Duncan racing DOES NOT FLOW TEST each cylinder head. So each can flow at different rates. For tuning from Duncan Racing they will ask you 15 questions and tune with your data. Duncan Racing does not own a chassis dyno, but is looking into a engine dyno. Years of experience can get your jets close, but never perfect. This is not a slam against Duncan Racing, and if I wanted a 440 Kit I would buy from them.

I know you had your bike tuned at Sam Coe Performance.
Again, just the facts

Sam Coe can jet your bike for 65 off the dyno, or 165 on the dyno. Sam's shop uses the same dyno as DynoEdge, BUT SAM'S SHOP DOES NOT USE WIDE BAND O2 FOR FUEL SAMPLING. they have no way of sampling fuel.

Without the use of wide band all your getting is a plug check. But that plug check cant tell you if your tip in is lean, or your too fat in the midrange. All you get from a plug check is was the bike running fat or lean right before shutdown. Thats good for 90% of the crowd, but if you really want to properly TUNE any gas engine a wide band O2 is the only way. Big, I know you were robbed during your dyno runs! Find another dyno place that can tune your bike with a wide band O2 and your going to see some nice results. And if Sam is too cheap to install a Wideband, what makes you think he maintains his dyno any better then a company who did spend the extra cash for it.

Flame away Big D, I stated all facts I researched today. Please call dynoedge and maybe you will learn a thing or two.

Thanks
Mark
:cool:

100hp_shooter

11-20-2002, 05:36 PM

Well guys i dont want to get in a battle here about DynoJet variations between dynos. We have a DynoJet 188 model here in the shop that has been setup properly. If you are aware that STD is the old way to Register hp and was replaced by the SAE type. The correction factor is minimal but we can provide either or. We can also provide the torque over Hp and vise versa...over RPM over time ... you name it we can provide for you. We also have the air fuel sensors to tune your bikes right to the 14 to 1 atmospheric pressure. The dyno is temperature control to any temp you want to run at. If you guys have any question on STD, SAE, Correct, Uncorrected HP or Torque just drop us a line we would be more than happy to help you out. As far as the numbers go .. the numbers are accurate...i could take this bike to any 1 of the other 3 dynos in the area and only get a 1 to 2 hp deviation...we have tested this already too.

Keep your brains on your motors and the sport will excell.

Later,

Shooter

GoLikeHell

11-20-2002, 05:50 PM

Hi Shooter,
Never thought I would see a true Banshee guy join a Honda forum. Post some pics of your race Banshee here!

Mark

Big - D Racing

11-20-2002, 10:31 PM

Duncan tunes their bikes the way the majority of major quad builders do and so does Sam Coe. I know TC Racing and LRD do plug checks also. I said I had no clue what specifics they do because I didn't watch them build up my quad. True Duncan don't recomenned the ignition advance key, but I never said they did. I said FST does, so does Sam Coe, and Sparks do, so I had Sam Coe put it in, not Duncan. As for your dyno comparsion to my bike, that is ridiculous. The only way you can compare your numbers to mine is if, you dyno yours on the exact same dyno machine, otherwise we can get two different reading regardless of what they use to tune it. As for the the Wide Band O2, i'll look into getting that done, maybe I can get even more power. Duncan racing will tune a carb the way you said by asking you different questions if you just bring the carb, unless they are working on your bike then they tune based on what your bike needs and then they'll test it and adjust as needed. I am surprised you called the shops who built my bike just to see how they tuned it and etc. That's cool did your homework, but regardless I think thos numbers are impossible with your mods and their dyno runs a little high. If you ever get the opportunity dyno it somewhere else just to see the results. Since your bike is already tuned, all you need to do is just slap it on a dyno and give it gas. I think if you emailed or called major shops and tell them what is on your bike and the numbers you got from the dyno, I think they'll tell you it is impossibe. I can tell you this for a fact Doug Eichner's Duncan Racing 440, which his a first place trophy bike only runs 42hp and is fully built to the maximuim of Duncan's ability with a 11:1 piston and your bike is only 6 hp behind it with basically a stock 400 and a cam, I just don't think that is possible, and anyone who can tell me that sounds realistic to them please do.

Matt Fisher

11-20-2002, 11:29 PM

This thread has progressed nicely, not into a flame war like so many others around here.

Couple of things I noticed:
-The Wiseco issue of not having correct CR is related to their 440 kit, not the stock bore. However, given the production variances that Honda blesses us with, he could very well be running slightly more (or less) than the 11:1.
-Wide band 02's are killer. Great tuning tool. However, you can certainly tune a motor for maximum power without one. Keep changing the jetting/timing until you reach maximum power. A specific air/fuel ratio does not equal maximum power for every motor. It does make it easy to make sure it doesn't run too lean while you're squeezing that last bit of power out of the motor.
-It may very well be that the various cams out there are a bit too small for a 440 motor running 11:1, but are a perfect size for a stock bore 11:1. Or that the cylinder head flow is stalling out at a given flow amount or lift. I don't know.

IMO- GoLikeHell's bike could very well be producing 35 horsies. In fact, it did- and he has the proof.

However, Big-D is correct in that numbers can be "massaged", intentionally or not, and that various dynos and dyno operators will often get different results. BTW- maybe Doug's 440 dyno numbers were artificially deflated, or it was built for a broad spread of power, not peak numbers.

Big - D Racing

11-20-2002, 11:40 PM

matt you made some good points, I wish their was some type of universal dyno machine that was preprogrammed by the manufacturer to get the exact same numbers from one dyno to another, then there would be no arguing ever about the numbers produced. I live 2 blocks away from Duncan and have talked in detail about Doug Eichner's bike to Lenny Duncan (owner of Duncan Racing) He told me that bike was built to put out the maximum amount of top end horse power with keeping a good amount of relability, that is also why they went with a 11:1 piston and not a 13:1 or 12:1 like a lot of other builders.

JOEX

11-20-2002, 11:42 PM

Does it really matter what numbers a machine prints out on a piece of paper?

Just ride and have fun!

Joe

Big - D Racing

11-20-2002, 11:43 PM

One more thing Mickey Dunlap (owner of Four Stroke Tech) told me that the compression issue applies to all wiseco pistons no matter of bore size or even what bike because they use a flat top design piston, ask him for more details. Je and other brands aren't flat top and he told me they are closer or exactly a 11:1 . No offense, but I believe ever word he says been building bike for 25 years, and who can argue with him.

JOEX

11-20-2002, 11:48 PM

http://www.greatplainsas.com/icompratio.html

Joe

Big - D Racing

11-20-2002, 11:51 PM

That's cool, I never knew the exact formula, but it also seems like a pain in the *** for the average person to take time to figure out exactly.

JOEX

11-20-2002, 11:55 PM

Yeah, it's more math than I care to do!

It seems there are some people in this thread that are anal enough to do it:D

Joe

GoLikeHell

11-21-2002, 01:16 AM

Originally posted by Big - D Racing

Duncan tunes their bikes the way the majority of major quad builders do and so does Sam Coe. I know TC Racing and LRD do plug checks also[B]

*I posted only facts I got from each place, nothing more, nothing less.

[B] I said I had no clue what specifics they do because I didn't watch them build up my quad. True Duncan don't recomenned the ignition advance key, but I never said they did. I said FST does, so does Sam Coe, and Sparks do, so I had Sam Coe put it in, not Duncan.[B]

*Again, I was only stating what Duncan Racing told me.

[B]As for your dyno comparsion to my bike, that is ridiculous. The only way you can compare your numbers to mine is if, you dyno yours on the exact same dyno machine, otherwise we can get two different reading regardless of what they use to tune it.[B]

*But here is what you based all your information on. Since you have a 440 kit from Duncan Racing and a dyno sheet from Sam's your numbers are correct. Again, Sam'a got your jets close, but not exact. Read your dyno chart, you have a lean dip in it.

[B]As for the the Wide Band O2, i'll look into getting that done,maybe I can get even more power.[B]

*I think your going to be surprised once you see your a/f chart on how your bike is really tuned. I am not saying it's bad, but you do have some hidden HP.

[B]I am surprised you called the shops who built my bike just to see how they tuned it and etc. That's cool did your homework, but regardless I think thos numbers are impossible with your mods and their dyno runs a little high.[B]

*Yes, I did my homework, maybe you should of done some before saying there is no way my bike produced what it did. I tuned my bike with a 5 gas analyzer (Wideband) before even going to a dyno. The unit alone ran 5K and can be strapped to the bike for riding, and runs off the 400EX battery.

[B]If you ever get the opportunity dyno it somewhere else just to see the results. Since your bike is already tuned, all you need to do is just slap it on a dyno and give it gas.[B]

*If the chance ever comes up maybe I will.

[B]I think if you emailed or called major shops and tell them what is on your bike and the numbers you got from the dyno, I think they'll tell you it is impossibe.[B]

*Again, this would only be there opinion, just like what you been stating all along.

[B]I can tell you this for a fact Doug Eichner's Duncan Racing 440, which his a first place trophy bike only runs 42hp and is fully built to the maximuim of Duncan's ability with a 11:1 piston and your bike is only 6 hp behind it with basically a stock 400 and a cam, I just don't think that is possible, and anyone who can tell me that sounds realistic to them please do. [/QUOTE]

Just because I used a standard bore high compression piston doesnt make the bike stock. Maybe my port cleanup I did worked better then I thought. I dont know anyone else here who has dynoed with a hotcams to compare it to. So when you keep refering to my bike being stock it isnt.

You have 40cc over me, your head has been ported ( I did hear that all 440's need porting or they can actually slow down due to the amount of air flow being restricted). 440 is also considered a torque machine, not a high rpm bike like mine.

To be totaly honest with you, you bashed me for no reason, no proof, and no data to prove my bike didnt do what it did on paper. If you would of had another dyno run with a bike just like mine, we could of compared numbers.

Mext time please get more information before typing, it doesnt hurt to congrats a person who might of stumbled on to something good. Just because it doesnt follow the normal guide lines doesnt mean it cant produce HP. If everyone always stayed in a one set mind frame we will never know what other hidden power we can uncover.

Big D, if you lived closer I would hook up the 5 gas on your bike and show you the difference. BTW on your recomendation I ordered a new edelbrock car that will be dynoed soon at DynoEdge because of the Wide Band. If anyone from the list would like to join me please PM me.

Thanks
Mark

Big - D Racing

11-21-2002, 01:33 AM

I said your bike is basically stock because all it really is, is a cam and a piston that is barely higher comp. than stock. You have never mentioned any port work before, so I figured you had none done otherwise you would have mentioned it. How much did you order the edelbrok carb for? It is great, but if you don't get from a place that has it in stock the wait is like 6-8weeks from the factory (as of like a month ago, so it may have changed recently). I also wanted to know what kind of exhaust do you run?

Big - D Racing

11-21-2002, 01:49 AM

I wanted to correct you true 440 are torque machines, but they are also high rpm motors(if built for it, some are built for bottom end), mine rides strong in high rpms and on the dyno I posted it doesn't show rpms, so I don't know how you can say it does. The line on the chart goes down around 70, but 70 stands for 70 mph, not 7000 rpms. It rides strong well through 8500 rpm's. Aftermarket cdi's that raise the rev limiter are designed for built machines Like Mine, not for stock or mildly modified bikes any builder will tell you that. I don't think yours will ride as strong in higher rpm's. All my engine work was done with top end in mind. It has a top end port job, a mid to top end cam. I have it geared for top end, not bottom. The chart you posted has the rpm, but it makes no sense to me because there is so many runs on it. Some runs start at 1000 rpm, while others start at 3000 and they all end in different places. Maybe you can explain it to me. I'm not saying your lying but what line do you go off? Also, you said I had dips in my chart that indicat a lean setting, you have them too. Shouldn't yours be perfectly straight then, based off what you are saying. I thought the dips are basically the shifting points, and for that second it falls barely(maybe i'm mistaken, correct me if you know). I wanted to tell you i have enjoyed this post and going back and forth with you. It has been fun, and I haven't been on exriders for this many hours before. I want to see what you'll say back so I stay on.

GoLikeHell

11-21-2002, 01:53 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Big - D Racing
[B]I said your bike is basically stock because all it really is, is a cam and a piston that is barely higher comp. than stock.

*9-1 compared to 11-1 is a difference. If there wasnt a big difference no one would even make high compression pistons.

* Would your answer be any different if it was a 416? any many people have beaten 440's with them, heck there was a 406 claim to have beaten a 440. 406 is only 9cc over a 397 STOCK BORE, could compression and lite weight pistons have a big play in this equation?

You have never mentioned any port work before, so I figured you had none done otherwise you would have mentioned it.

*Page 2. Maybe you should read my post fully before posting. I have edited many post because I didnt read your response correct.

How much did you order the edelbrok carb for?

*It was under 400, I got it out of Wisconsin from a buddy. His buddy had one in stock.

I also wanted to know what kind of exhaust do you run?

*On page two I also talk about it, I run a stock front head pipe with the welds taken out. The muffler was cut at the entrance and gutted 100%. So its just one huge chamber, and I cut the spark arrestor and baffle out. So now the opening in the spark arestor is full size now:D .

Mark

Big - D Racing

11-21-2002, 02:05 AM

I said you piston is like a stock piston. It is not a true 11:1 Call Mickey Dunlap at Four Stroke Tech if you don't believe me or Duncan, or Ct, or Tc. The compression of a 11:1 wiseco runs about 9.5:1 that is what Mickey told me and I would believe any thing he says because they use a flat top design(read my past replies that I mentioned this like 3 times already). 25 years of experience with a major race team and known as one of the best builders in the country with his bikes on the cover of magazines all the time. Chad Duvell races his 500ex kit. I don't think you can honestly argue with him now, do you?

Big - D Racing

11-21-2002, 02:11 AM

Compression plays a huge part in power. Get a 14:1 compression piston and you'll know what i'm talking about, big difference. A 406 built properly can beat a 440 easy. If the 440 is just an oversized piston of course, because you need to do a lot of work to an engine to grasp the full potential of a 440 kit. My friend has a 440, that is just a piston and I kill him in a drag. It would take one **** of a 406 to beat my 440 or a 440 built similiar to mine.

GoLikeHell

11-21-2002, 02:15 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Big - D Racing
[B]I wanted to correct you true 440 are torque machines, but they are also high rpm motors(if built for it, some are built for bottom end), mine rides strong in high rpms and on the dyno I posted it doesn't show rpms, so I don't know how you can say it does. The line on the chart goes down around 70, but 70 stands for 70 mph, not 7000 rpms. It rides strong well through 8500 rpm's.

*Sorry I thought that was rpms, I can compare it to my MPH chart but tire size and gearing play a Huge role in this. Can you find your rpms so we can take gearing out of the issue.

Aftermarket cdi's that raise the rev limiter are designed for built machines Like Mine, not for stock or mildly modified bikes any builder will tell you that. I don't think yours will ride as strong in higher rpm's.

*Here again its your opinion. I had to switch to a rev box because I was hitting the rev limiter contantly. All you have to do is ask, I dont bite when asked. I bite when told there is no way this is possible.

All my engine work was done with top end in mind. It has a top end port job, a mid to top end cam. I have it geared for top end, not bottom.

*I run a stock rear gear and a 16 tooth up front.

The chart you posted has the rpm, but it makes no sense to me because there is so many runs on it. Some runs start at 1000 rpm, while others start at 3000 and they all end in different places. Maybe you can explain it to me.

*Yeah, that sheet is very confusing because the spark cycle time was still set on two stroke for the first runs. The later runs are correct in the rpms. So accoreding to the rpms my bike breaths and makes power upstairs.

Also, you said I had dips in my chart that indicat a lean setting, you have them too. Shouldn't yours be perfectly straight then, based off what you are saying. I thought the dips are basically the shifting points, and for that second it falls barely(maybe i'm mistaken, correct me if you know).

*Okay yes my runs have dips, but my dips are from the damn tires. Your runs look like they used slicks to make sure the power gets transmitted to the rollers and it doesnt skip on the treads. But the difference in my runs is I could look at my a/f readings and say yeah its a tire tread prob not my bike. With your dyno run being so smooth i am 99% positive you have a lean dip. If you want I will point it out on your dyno sheet and can either repost it, or send it private. choice is yours.

I wanted to tell you i have enjoyed this post and going back and forth with you. It has been fun, and I haven't been on exriders for this many hours before. I want to see what you'll say back so I stay on.

*Its been fun, but also been a PIA because I shouldnt have to defend myself this hard when I am using actual data. As for my tuning abilities, I have been a master certified techinicain since 1983. God I think i just dated myself

Mark

GoLikeHell

11-21-2002, 02:26 AM

Originally posted by Big - D Racing
Compression plays a huge part in power. Get a 14:1 compression piston and you'll know what i'm talking about, big difference. A 406 built properly can beat a 440 easy. If the 440 is just an oversized piston of course, because you need to do a lot of work to an engine to grasp the full potential of a 440 kit. My friend has a 440, that is just a piston and I kill him in a drag. It would take one **** of a 406 to beat my 440 or a 440 built similiar to mine.

*11-1 is the largest stock bore piston you can buy ( that I was told at moto man). Have you raced any high compression 406's? Again this is your opinion till proven right or wrong with more dyno sheets or some good old drag racing.

* One of the huge reasons I wanted to stay with a stock bore is heat distribution. the more metal on the sleeve, the more heat transfer you will get. I run my bike right on the ragged edge of a melt down. 17-1 is not for everyone due to higher running temps and possible piston meltdown. But if you want to achieve the maximum thermo efficeincy that makes hp you put your bike right there.

*Im not saying your bike isnt fast, but you need more data to prove what your saying. We need to get some more people on dyno's and see just what we really have. Heck it might come out you and I are the low HP guys at Exriders.:eek:

Mark

Big - D Racing

11-21-2002, 02:29 AM

I can't find any other of my charts, I had one that showed torque, I had one with my edelbrock carb on, I know one or two of them showed rpm's, but this is the only one I have been able to locate, I'll keep trying to find the other ones and i'll scan them if I can find them.

GoLikeHell

11-21-2002, 02:31 AM

Originally posted by Big - D Racing
I said you piston is like a stock piston. It is not a true 11:1 Call Mickey Dunlap at Four Stroke Tech if you don't believe me or Duncan, or Ct, or Tc. The compression of a 11:1 wiseco runs about 9.5:1 that is what Mickey told me and I would believe any thing he says because they use a flat top design(read my past replies that I mentioned this like 3 times already). 25 years of experience with a major race team and known as one of the best builders in the country with his bikes on the cover of magazines all the time. Chad Duvell races his 500ex kit. I don't think you can honestly argue with him now, do you?

Yes I read your replies and ignored it for the one reason. I pulled out a stock flat top piston and installed a dome. You can not tell me the compression ratio stayed the same (stock per my manual shows 9.5-1). Im not buying that one, and maybe you should of asked me if it was a dome or a flat stock piston that I installed.

Mark

GoLikeHell

11-21-2002, 02:34 AM

Originally posted by Big - D Racing
I can't find any other of my charts, I had one that showed torque, I had one with my edelbrock carb on, I know one or two of them showed rpm's, but this is the only one I have been able to locate, I'll keep trying to find the other ones and i'll scan them if I can find them.

I would really like to see your torque charts since I forgot to get one printed off the last time I was at Dynoedge. I know my number was 21.7, but yours should be way up there.

Again, im sorry about the MPH mix up, maybe i need glasses in my old age.

Mark

Big - D Racing

11-21-2002, 02:45 AM

I didn't ask you because from what I hear Wiseco doesn't make a dome piston only flat top. That is what Mickey Dunlap told me and other people on this site told me the same, if your is dome, it ain't wiseco and then maybe it is a true 11:1 That why i said it's like stock because if it is wiseco it is pretty much stock compression. I know neither one of us have what I would call a fast bike, but they are powerful and competitive some people have 465 and 500ex. I don't know what the highest compression for a stock bore never looked into it. If you're worried about heat get a Four Stroke Tech Oil Cooler Kit. They cost $110 and is worth its weight in gold. It lowers oil temp. up to 50 degrees and spits the cooler oil right on your cam and rockers! I swear by mine and it is the best way to lower your temp. I'll post a couple pics. You know what you should do (I would have done it if I knew when I built mine) put a stroker crank in it, with your stock bore size. They make them to put out 440 cc's with standard bore and they are a lot more powerful than a standard 440. They are suppose to put out like 50 hp with a mild porting!
The pic is from the side showing my stainless steel oil lines that go to my head.

Big - D Racing

11-21-2002, 02:47 AM

here's a close up of the lines:

Big - D Racing

11-21-2002, 02:49 AM

here's the secondary radiator:

GoLikeHell

11-21-2002, 03:04 AM

Originally posted by Big - D Racing
I didn't ask you because from what I hear Wiseco doesn't make a dome piston only flat top.

Next time im at moto man ill double check that. Maybe im wrong on the dome, but ill check into it.

Mark

GoLikeHell

11-21-2002, 03:06 AM

Nice kit, looks like it does a nice job. But I am looking for high temps in my engine for thermo efficency.

Man I need to get some sleep

Mark

ChadEXer

11-21-2002, 09:02 AM

Big-D, what steps did you take when polishing your cases??
Thanks

Matt Fisher

11-21-2002, 09:38 AM

Just because a piston has a flat top does not mean the CR will be low. If the pin to piston top height is higher than stock, that will result in a higher CR, as will different gaskets, decked cylinders, etc. The last Wiseco I looked at did in fact have a higher pin-to-top height than the OEM one. Maybe they make more than one style (maybe a design for just one company) of flat-top?

The next time someone has a Wiseco handy, take some measurements, maybe we can figure this out...

As I understood it, Mickey said the 440 kit had an issue, I hadn't heard of the other piston sizes being that way.

Most CR's above about 13:1 are there to compensate for some type of issue. Maybe a rule that requires a restrictor plate, a tiny cam, or a head design that just sucks (like a 2.3L Ford motor).

Gt Thunder offers 12.5:1 stock bore pistons. Custom made by JE to GTT's specs. Anybody want to buy the one I took out of my bike? I just didn't want to run race fuel, nothing wrong with it.

I too really like the FST kit, I used that design when making my cooler. Great idea on Mickey's part.

GoLikeHell- you're correct about thermal efficiency- but the idea behind the FST design is to protect the cam/valvetrain against excessive heat, as the RFVC design is known to run very hot. Of course, should you have an detonation issue (maybe a really hot day), your thermal effieciency just went out the window.

Big - D Racing

11-21-2002, 02:26 PM

I had an Antique shop, that polishes old silverware and stuff of that sort, do it. It cost $50 per side case and I believe first they sand blasted it and then took it to a commercial polishing machine. I figured if I would have attempted it, it would take a lot of hours and probably still not turn out as good as I wanted it. For $100 it took 1 day and looks like chrome.

ChadEXer

11-21-2002, 02:31 PM

It looks nice!! I think im going to try to tackle the situation myself and hope for the best!! Im gonna use aircraft stripper then take it to my buffing motor,,hopefully it comes out right!!

Big - D Racing

11-21-2002, 02:36 PM

good luck, it'll be a pain in the ***, but will look sweet once it's done.

SpeedBump

11-21-2002, 08:09 PM

here is a pic of my 300ex that i just finished polishing the sidecases, and starter. also did the small valve cover caps. It did take a good bit of work, but you are right to do the aircraft stripper, works very well. wear gloves. I got a few burns from it. I do polishing on the side, for friends and family. Not really charge guys, just do this for that. tell me what ya think. sorry bout the pics, not the best, but will have to do

SpeedBump

11-21-2002, 08:11 PM

diff view

SpeedBump

11-21-2002, 08:13 PM

one more

SpeedBump

11-21-2002, 08:14 PM

last one

NacsRacing400

11-21-2002, 08:15 PM

looks good, how much do u want to polish my side cases on my crf 450 engine.

370 banshee

11-21-2002, 09:48 PM

Originally posted by Big - D Racing
I thought the dips are basically the shifting points, and for that second it falls barely(maybe i'm mistaken, correct me if you know).

LMGDFAO, You are clearly a moron after that statement. Shift points? Dyno's dont do no stinken shift points! A dyno run is usally ran in high gear for the full powerband. That is why you only see one powercurve instead of 5. You argue numbers you have no idea what they mean. All you know is Duncan racing slid it in you and broke it off for a couple thousand dollars. So as YOUR OPINION it should be the fastest and the badest thing out there. Well buddy, you never stay on top for long. Duncan racing does build a good engine, but they also build for durabilty. So many times you sacrifies altimate HP for longevity. My Opinion is you owe that golikehell guy an apology for your worthless opinion. You did nothing for this thread but prove you paid alot of money to Duncan racing, and Sam Coe top tuned your bike. Now dry up your croc tears and do what a real man would do. Say your sorry for being an arragant idiot and congrats the guy.

Get a tissue
Banshee370

Big - D Racing

11-21-2002, 10:07 PM

370, You are a dumb ***. I was guessing I said correct me if i'm wrong. I don't own a dyno and I don't know how exactly they get your readings. I just know the readings can vary from dyno to dyno. I never said my bike is the fastest, and for the money I got a strong bike that will last a long time. I don't plan on rebuilding it. Your the moron I didn't say I knew for a fact they were shift points, Moron. It was a guess. Are you the guy who runs that dyno? If so, I went on your website you claim you'll get 72 horsepower on a banshee with just a $400 mild port job. Give me a break, if you could produce those with just a port job, you would be the richest guy, everyone would come to you for work. Your 72 hp claims are bull****. You also say 100 hp for a drag porting. How the **** is that possible? 100hp from a simple porting job, whatever homo.

powerslider

11-21-2002, 10:18 PM

The stock bore Weisco 11:1 piston has a dome, it is not a flat top. I have one here in the box.

370 banshee

11-21-2002, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by Big - D Racing
370, You are a dumb ***. I was guessing I said correct me if i'm wrong. I don't own a dyno and I don't know how exactly they get your readings. I just know the readings can vary from dyno to dyno. I never said my bike is the fastest, and for the money I got a strong bike that will last a long time. I don't plan on rebuilding it. Your the moron I didn't say I knew for a fact they were shift points, Moron. It was a guess. Are you the guy who runs that dyno? If so, I went on your website you claim you'll get 72 horsepower on a banshee with just a $400 mild port job. Give me a break, if you could produce those with just a port job, you would be the richest guy, everyone would come to you for work. Your 72 hp claims are bull****. You also say 100 hp for a drag porting. How the **** is that possible? 100hp from a simple porting job, whatever homo.

I dont own a dyno either, but at least I know how to read a dyno sheet, MORON. You must really be pissed off that someone else can make good power and not spend thousands of dollars. I take back calling you a MORON, your just a plain THICK HEADED LOOSER. I hope this golikehell guy does more mods and blows your HP right out of the water. You should get your own forum, call it if I dont have it, it's junk.

Get a life!

370

:devil :devil :devil :devil :devil :devil :devil :devil

JhallettEX

11-21-2002, 10:39 PM

This is getting old, and I also dont believe these #'s but I dont know anything about dynos. 370 Shee and Hillshooter clearly know golikehell and I will bet they are from dynoedge. Thats what I do know.:confused:

Big - D Racing

11-21-2002, 10:42 PM

i'll second that!

GoLikeHell

11-21-2002, 11:03 PM

Originally posted by Big - D Racing
i'll second that!

WHOA,wait one minute! I know 100hp shooter because I met him at Dynoedge, but I have no idea who 370 is.

Again why dont you just ask before going off again!

Mark

GoLikeHell

11-21-2002, 11:10 PM

Originally posted by powerslider
The stock bore Weisco 11:1 piston has a dome, it is not a flat top. I have one here in the box.

Thanks for the information, looks like Big D's Opinions again are wrong.

Big, Please do me a HUGE favor, post only facts. I am sick of doing research to prove you wrong. you need to treat me the same way and start using facts, not Opinions.

BTW I called Hotcams about the HP readings, and they got a 5 hp gain just by installing the cam in a stock bike. I told them my HP and they did say it sounded a tad high but they want to review the dyno sheets to see what I might of did different to obtain those numbers. But like the tech guy said, anything is possible.

Mark

GoLikeHell

11-21-2002, 11:43 PM

Originally posted by JhallettEX
This is getting old, and I also dont believe these #'s but I dont know anything about dynos. 370 Shee and Hillshooter clearly know golikehell and I will bet they are from dynoedge. Thats what I do know.:confused:

Good thing you didnt lay money on that! I have no clue who 370Banshee is. Again not believing my numbers is your opinion only. I will offer you the same deal I offered Big, you find me a dyno within 100 miles of Livonia Michigan I will go and run it there. Now if it pulls close to the same or more you pay the bill, if not ill report my results and change my sig.

I am going back Monday to run my 400 with a new edelbrock carb, I will be more then happy to give everyone a Butt-O-Meter reading to use as information on building thier bikes.

Thanks
Mark

MADRAT

11-22-2002, 12:33 AM

Go Jump in the lake:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

airheadedduner

11-22-2002, 01:19 AM

Compression don't mean a whole lot with peak HP. I don't know about thumpers but I was reading on 2 strokes and when they port for top end they raise the exhuast port. That increases exhuast duration and lowers comppresion. That alows the motor to rev faster freer and makes top end HP.

This has got to be the most entertaining thread on the boards.:rolleyes: :D

ChadEXer

11-22-2002, 09:06 AM

When we need a little controversy, it would be so empty without me:D

SlapNutz

11-22-2002, 09:13 AM

my shee:macho woold make it a good test :macho

bandit390

11-22-2002, 09:20 AM

Someone give me a free dyno run at highlifter and ill go test my 440. To me 75$ isnt worth it.

:D

GoLikeHell

11-22-2002, 09:26 AM

Originally posted by MADRAT
Go Jump in the lake:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Im glad you added your great wisdom to this thread. Its stupidity like this that makes a good thread go bad.

Mark

Doibugu2

11-22-2002, 10:22 AM

If you take all the bullshhit, this thread would be about 3 pages of great info. Wore me out trying to read it all, and now I have to start working. Maybe I'll just go to lunch.

GoLikeHell, I believe you. Big D, I believe you. Everyone agrees that GoLikeHell might be a tad high, but if you still give him 32 or 33 HP, I think he would still be happy. Give it a rest.

ChadEXer

11-22-2002, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by bandit390
Someone give me a free dyno run at highlifter and ill go test my 440. To me 75$ isnt worth it.

:D
They told me $50!! Im going there as soon as I get mine finished up!!!

airheadedduner

11-22-2002, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by ChadEXer
When we need a little controversy, it would be so empty without me:D

LMFAO!!:blah

DTR charges $50 an hour to put a bike on th dyno. It takes them some time to calibrate everything to get a good reading. I think when it is all done it ends up costing $150-200:confused: Otherwise I would have had the 295 on that thing.

outlaw319

11-23-2002, 11:03 AM

even though this thread has been long enough! I just like to add my 2 cents!
I've been building quad motors for years, and I've seen things between quads that people say that isn't possible!
you can take 2 same brand stock quads of the showroom floor and go right out and drag em, and one will outrun the other! You can swap drivers to eliminate the possibilities of weight,driving abilities,etc. And one bike will still be faster!
as far as the Wiseco pistons, i just installed one and it has a high dome..not flat top! the dome is what bumps up the compression!
I can go on and on about some other things i read in here, but i'll wait to reply!:D

QuadTrix6

11-23-2002, 11:21 AM

outlaw319

11-23-2002, 11:24 AM

I figured i would add some more here!
I'm not trying to sound like a "know it all" but also you can take a brand new bike and just do some simple jetting and gain more HP and make it run like a totally different bike!
As for Go like **** and Big D i think you're both smart guys and both r just about right on what you're talkin about! But GOLIKEHELL i agree with others that dyno might be off alittle "not much" but i dont see it impossible to get good readings with your mods! but one other factor is that it might not be the same HP,torque,etc that you would be running at a track, because of the tires they had on at dyno. a change in tire size or gearing will effect the way the motor reacts, especially when dyno reads off wheelspin! 1 other thing i like to state is...I've have seen low budget bikes whip on high dollar machines before! You can spend all the money, and have every goodie on your bike...but that doesn't mean it'll be the fastest!
Sorry! i dont mean to get anyone fired up again!

GoLikeHell

11-23-2002, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by outlaw319
I figured i would add some more here!
I'm not trying to sound like a "know it all" but also you can take a brand new bike and just do some simple jetting and gain more HP and make it run like a totally different bike!
As for Go like **** and Big D i think you're both smart guys and both r just about right on what you're talkin about! But GOLIKEHELL i agree with others that dyno might be off alittle "not much" but i dont see it impossible to get good readings with your mods! but one other factor is that it might not be the same HP,torque,etc that you would be running at a track, because of the tires they had on at dyno. a change in tire size or gearing will effect the way the motor reacts, especially when dyno reads off wheelspin! 1 other thing i like to state is...I've have seen low budget bikes whip on high dollar machines before! You can spend all the money, and have every goodie on your bike...but that doesn't mean it'll be the fastest!
Sorry! i dont mean to get anyone fired up again!

Again, Opinions are like butt holes, everyone has one. I dont care anymore about this thread, I hope all your Opinions help others in the future for mods and the proper way to tune your bikes. I am going back on the dyno Monday after a carb swap. I will report back my findings the only way everyone wants to hear. OH it feels so fast!! or God I can not believe the difference!!. Hey I might even report it made no changes.

Like Taco said, I should of dynoed my bike when it was brandnew. Well even then everyone would of said it wasnt the same day, the moom was full one day and not the other. I was looking forward to trying a different approach in showing how certain mods will help you, or how a cam will change your powerband. This would of been a great way of getting the most HP for your buck, and YOU could see if the gain was what you wanted. Since I buy time on the dyno its easy to make bolt on changes, but why should I waste my money to show what certain mods can give you when everyone will bash it with thier opinions. When I picked out my mods I had to rely on my experience and a lot of research, and I think mine paid off. (Others Opinions will vary).

It's been Fun!
Mark

Chef

11-23-2002, 09:08 PM

I don't see why you idiots started a big fight out of this thread. He went and got his bike dynoed, got the numbers, and posted them. So what if the numbers are off, a range from 38-46 on the same bike isn't that great, anyway. For how great these big, bad duncan racing 440's are supposed to be, they aren't pulling very big numbers..?

Chef

11-23-2002, 09:15 PM

Originally posted by Big - D Racing
IMickey told me and I would believe any thing he says because they use a flat top design(read my past replies that I mentioned this like 3 times already). 25 years of experience with a major race team and known as one of the best builders in the country with his bikes on the cover of magazines all the time. Chad Duvell races his 500ex kit. I don't think you can honestly argue with him now, do you?

Now don't go relying all your fast bike knowledge on him. My 440 was 9mph faster on the radar gun in the straight at the track in picture than his top of the line 440 kit.

ChadEXer

11-24-2002, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by Alky472

Now don't go relying all your fast bike knowledge on him. My 440 was 9mph faster on the radar gun in the straight at the track in picture than his top of the line 440 kit.
Mickey is a good guy and all, but if any of you remember he got kind of upset a while back because I was saying that his motors dont last,,well i was reading the Dec issue of ATV Sport and again i seen where Chad Duvalls motor quit on him!!

GoLikeHell

11-24-2002, 08:19 PM

Well I adusted my dyno runs so everyone here doesnt have any problems understanding them.

2qk4u

11-25-2002, 10:27 PM

hey Golikehell, you know what i think, i think that big-d-racing is just suprised or pissed because all we have done to our bikes is a stock bore 11:1 piston and cam and it will stay right up with the 440's pretty much all day. yeh mine doesnt have the cam yet but you can bet your @ss it will soon. everyone talks about the 440's like there the *****. but if there any better at all than our 11:1 it isnt by much. you just got to take what alot of people say on here with a grain of salt. my buddy races gncc and he says he stays right with all the big dollar 440's and all he has done is the piston also. dont let them get to you. you know your bike runs great and you dont have 1/2 the money in it most of these people have in theirs. all you were trying to do is share a little information and you get shot at. just thought i would share my 2 cents. im not trying to piss anyone off its just that this board is for good helpful information, not critisism.

Steve-o 400EX

11-28-2002, 11:11 AM

Chef

11-28-2002, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by 2qk4u
hey Golikehell, you know what i think, i think that big-d-racing is just suprised or pissed because all we have done to our bikes is a stock bore 11:1 piston and cam and it will stay right up with the 440's pretty much all day. yeh mine doesnt have the cam yet but you can bet your @ss it will soon. everyone talks about the 440's like there the *****. but if there any better at all than our 11:1 it isnt by much. you just got to take what alot of people say on here with a grain of salt. my buddy races gncc and he says he stays right with all the big dollar 440's and all he has done is the piston also. dont let them get to you. you know your bike runs great and you dont have 1/2 the money in it most of these people have in theirs. all you were trying to do is share a little information and you get shot at. just thought i would share my 2 cents. im not trying to piss anyone off its just that this board is for good helpful information, not critisism.

Not trying to flame, but, you have to remember not all 440's are the same...

GoLikeHell

11-28-2002, 10:27 PM

GoLikeHell

11-28-2002, 10:30 PM

Originally posted by Steve-o 400EX

Yea, I agree with getting it dynoed stock jsut to see what the machine says, but I don't doubt that it pulled that many HP, I heard a lot of good stuff about the setup you have.:)

Thanks,
One thing I wanted was a reliable bike still. If I wanted a bike that broke down every damn day I would of bought a Banshee. :D

Chef

11-29-2002, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by GoLikeHell

Thanks,
One thing I wanted was a reliable bike still. If I wanted a bike that broke down every damn day I would of bought a Banshee. :D

Heh, teh real funny part of that is that since I've bought a Banshee, its been the quickest to start, keep running, and the only one that will idle long enough to warm up...funny things happen sometimes, huh?

GoLikeHell

11-29-2002, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by Alky472

Heh, teh real funny part of that is that since I've bought a Banshee, its been the quickest to start, keep running, and the only one that will idle long enough to warm up...funny things happen sometimes, huh?

I ride with two banshee's and I always end up towing one or the other back to the trailer. Im going by past history here:D

Mark

Chef

11-29-2002, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by GoLikeHell

I ride with two banshee's and I always end up towing one or the other back to the trailer. Im going by past history here:D

Mark

I usually end up towing banshees with my banshee too...and the worst part is, its always in the dunes, so they get totally buried while im gettin movin! :D:D:D

nacs400ex

11-29-2002, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by Big - D Racing
Even ask dirt wheels

Well i wouldnt trust dirtwheels, with a 10 foot pole. The z400 over powers the 400ex SO MUCH!!! LMFAO, they said the exact same thing when the raptor first came out. What about the shoot out with the cannondale they had... Oh we feel the z400 is better than a dale? hahaha biggest lie ever.

Just my 2 cents.

Matt Fisher

11-30-2002, 09:02 AM

GoLikeHell-

You mentioned tuning the bike with a 5 gas analizer prior to visiting the dyno. Did you need to re-jet while spinning the drum, or did the 5-gas get you spot-on?

Do you have a printout with the A/F ratios at various RPM ranges?

How about BSFC?

GoLikeHell

12-03-2002, 06:49 AM

Originally posted by Matt Fisher
GoLikeHell-

You mentioned tuning the bike with a 5 gas analizer prior to visiting the dyno. Did you need to re-jet while spinning the drum, or did the 5-gas get you spot-on?

Do you have a printout with the A/F ratios at various RPM ranges?

How about BSFC?

I used a 5 gas for tuning the bike at my house and down the street, and in the trails. I learned a lot by using this for tuning, and seeing how the bike performed under different situations. the 5 gas was very close, but hard to read when you get up in speed :-)

The dyno also was using a wideband O2 so I have fuel sampling during the dyno run. If you look at my dyno sheet you will see my a/f is set to 17-1 ratio. Now if you look at Just got back from the dyno part 2 you will see the added carb was runing at a 12-1 fuel ratio and it pulled less HP.

Please define DSFC, I dont know that aqrinim

Mark

MIKE400EX

12-03-2002, 07:54 AM

BSFC = brake specific fuel consumption. Usually the amount of fuel used to generate one hp for one hour at a given rpm. Tells you how efficiently the engine is using fuel at different rpm's.

Matt Fisher

12-03-2002, 08:52 AM

So you did need to change the jetting once the dyno runs were underway?

I was hoping to see a A/F chart, not just max. BTW, 17.5:1 is really lean. Like weld the piston to the cylinder lean. It's probably in the very top rpm's, well after peak power is made, so hopefully it won't be an issue.

Air to fuel ratios can't be "set" with a carb. If you have an aftermarket fuel injections system with a wide band 02, then you can set a motor to run at specific a/f ratios, since the fuel injection can instantly change fuel maps.

Mike described BSFC for ya'.

GoLikeHell

12-03-2002, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by MIKE400EX
BSFC = brake specific fuel consumption. Usually the amount of fuel used to generate one hp for one hour at a given rpm. Tells you how efficiently the engine is using fuel at different rpm's.

Thanks for the definition. :D

GoLikeHell

12-03-2002, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by Matt Fisher
So you did need to change the jetting once the dyno runs were underway?

I was hoping to see a A/F chart, not just max. BTW, 17.5:1 is really lean. Like weld the piston to the cylinder lean. It's probably in the very top rpm's, well after peak power is made, so hopefully it won't be an issue.

Air to fuel ratios can't be "set" with a carb. If you have an aftermarket fuel injections system with a wide band 02, then you can set a motor to run at specific a/f ratios, since the fuel injection can instantly change fuel maps.

Mike described BSFC for ya'.

Nope, I didnt have to change my jetting. The 5 gas put me right where I wanted it.

Sorry I just got back to work and havent had time to scan and post more sheets. I thought I posted a dyno run with the a/f with it so you can see the a/f ratio at all rpms.

Very untrue, your carb determines A/F. Turning your air screw, pilot change, main jet change, will all change your a/f ratio. Now here is where a 5 gas come in handy you can see your transition from pilot to needle to main jet. You could be nice and fat on your main and your plug check will confirm that. But your needle could be set too lean, or a too fat of a pilot.

17.5-1 is leaner then a 14-1, or if you look at Big D's Dyno run he was at 12-1. I am looking for the best thermo efficency I can get without loosing reliablity. If you read into this thread you will see I have said this isnt for everyone, that no one should just run out and change jets because I said so. I showed what running the bike leaner can produce more power. I do advise everyone getting thier bike on the dyno and seeing where the a/f is and if you can use some improvements. Running at 17-1 is not unheard of and makes great power.

As for programmable EFI, look in the FS section under Edelbrock FS. You will see a pic of my next project.

Matt, do you have any BSFC on your quad? I dont know if my dyno shop is capable of that, but i will ask.

Thanks for the reply
Mark

MIKE400EX

12-03-2002, 12:14 PM

Mark
Since your dyno shop is measuring air, fuel, (hence a/f) and hp vs. rpm. The BSFC can be calculated and graphed vs. rpm. Also, since they are obviously measuring airflow into the engine, could they supply you (us) with that data? That would help alot in knowing how to port the intake side and choosing a cam. Thanks! Mike

GoLikeHell

12-03-2002, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by MIKE400EX
Mark
Since your dyno shop is measuring air, fuel, (hence a/f) and hp vs. rpm. The BSFC can be calculated and graphed vs. rpm. Also, since they are obviously measuring airflow into the engine, could they supply you (us) with that data? That would help alot in knowing how to port the intake side and choosing a cam. Thanks! Mike

Nope, you dont measure air flow on a dyno, just sampling the exhaust for air/ fuel mixture. I have been on dynos for years ( cars) and never had them meter air intake. Please explain how a BSFC will aid in tuning your bike? It's not a slam, bash or an insult, we all need to know. If everyone sits back and only listens to one person on how something should be done we will never exceed from where we are. Its people who bring new ways of looking for hidden power or how to fine tune your bikes that will make us better then others. Plus forces venders to sell worth while products.

Mike maybe you need to bring some data to the forum and let US know whats going on.

Mark

12-03-2002, 05:13 PM

I Got it. sga

12-03-2002, 05:15 PM

Got this one too. Good bye hotsex

Matt Fisher

12-04-2002, 08:36 AM

Originally posted by GoLikeHell

Nope, I didnt have to change my jetting. The 5 gas put me right where I wanted it.

Sorry I just got back to work and havent had time to scan and post more sheets. I thought I posted a dyno run with the a/f with it so you can see the a/f ratio at all rpms.

Good to hear the 5 gas did it's job. I look forward to seeing the graphed a/f chart.

Very untrue, your carb determines A/F. Turning your air screw, pilot change, main jet change, will all change your a/f ratio. Now here is where a 5 gas come in handy you can see your transition from pilot to needle to main jet. You could be nice and fat on your main and your plug check will confirm that. But your needle could be set too lean, or a too fat of a pilot.

I understand that, and agree wholeheartedly with the advantages in having modern tuning equipment. What I was saying was a carb can't "set" an a/f ratio and maintain it. If you change elevation, air temp, humidity, etc. the a/f will change. With efi, it can compensate, and maintain a "set" a/f ratio. Not trying to be a prick, I was only having issue with the wording "my a/f is set to 17-1 ratio."

17.5-1 is leaner then a 14-1, or if you look at Big D's Dyno run he was at 12-1. I am looking for the best thermo efficency I can get without loosing reliablity. If you read into this thread you will see I have said this isnt for everyone, that no one should just run out and change jets because I said so. I showed what running the bike leaner can produce more power. I do advise everyone getting thier bike on the dyno and seeing where the a/f is and if you can use some improvements. Running at 17-1 is not unheard of and makes great power.

I understand that leaner usually makes more power. The 17:1 raised some concern because it's sooo easy to end up with detonation at that kind of a/f ratio. It may very well be that these motors like to be run on the lean side, I just tend to error on the conservative (rich) side.

As for programmable EFI, look in the FS section under Edelbrock FS. You will see a pic of my next project.

Matt, do you have any BSFC on your quad? I dont know if my dyno shop is capable of that, but i will ask.

I'll have to take a peek at that EFI project.

I assume you meant Mike there, but regardless, I have yet to put my bike on a dyno.

I have however, seen the intake airflow measured on dyno's. There's a huge velocity stack with the measuring device inside. A flexible tube connects that to the vehicle's intake (carb, throttle body, etc).