Piggyback vs. Remote Rezzy vs. No Rezzy

[07trx400ex]

I have a few questions about shocks.

(Keep in mind that I am a trail rider, but my idea of a "good ride" is pushing myself and the machine to the limits, and am competitive with riding buddies.)

I have decided that I think shocks would be the best "first mod" for me. At the most I get 10ft of air but even this is hard landing and I HAVE bottomed out before, so I need some advice) I would like them to be adjustable so that I can tune them for jumping if I need to.


I am considering purchasing Elka's.

1) What are the main differences between Piggyback, remote rezzy, or no rezzy shocks (besides the price)?

2) Would there be a substantial difference from stock, if I got the non-rezzy recreational shocks from Elka if they were built for me? How much of a difference would these make?

3) Is it important to get triple rate shocks? If you are ride in mostly the same type of terrain or it is varried so you can't really adjust on the fly?

4) If you get long travel shocks does it do any good without long travel a-arms?

[the Z Man]

The resevoir holds more fluid and less chance for your shocks overheating, I use the remote ressy for the extra fluid in the hose. I was riding a very whooped out place Saturday, it was 30 degrees and after a 25 minute ride my rear shock was warm to the touch.
I would not go without a ressy, for the extra money you are getting alot more shock, definitely go with triple rate, you will not be disappointed, be sure and have it valved for your weight and riding style, if you ride mostly MX valve it for MX, if you ride mostly trails go with the XC or aggressive trail.
You cannot use long travel on stock travel a-arms.
Piggyback ressy's are just fine.
Don't waste your money on non-ressy shocks, you should just stay with what you have.
Just my opinion, Z.

[the Z Man]

My orange bike has stock travel triple rate Elkas ans Axis rear, I am very happy with this set-up.
This is my race bike remote ressy's long travel.

[07trx400ex]

Yeah, I am not in any type of organized racing but.....


The biggest problems for me are:

1)the rear bounces around substantially in rough sections.

2)The front does not really feel tippy, but it just does not feel as crisp as I think a more aggressive setup could. It just does not have that "on rails" feel, like I can carve any path I want around a corner. I just feel like I am losing alot of time and speed with the stock shocks.

I know this may sound dumb for a trail rider, but I like to push pretty hard, its kind of my way of getting away from everything, very relaxing in my opinion:blah:

But I am new and need as much advice as I can get.

What would you suggest is the best setup for me.

[TRXRacer1]

I'm going to disagree with the idea that non-resi shocks are a waste. My front Works non resi shocks are way better then the stock crap Honda puts on and they're holding up pretty good after a couple years of hard riding. As far as the rear have you tried dialing it in? It's a pretty good shock when you work with it a little.

[the Z Man]

You can also get a rear link, for trails I would go with the xc link, it slightly lowers your rear thus making it GRAB better.
You can get a real good deal on here for shocks, on my 4 hundy I had TCS triple rates (Total Control Suspension) they were awesome, I also had the stock rear revalved by them, it was only 2 or 3 hundred but it was worth it.

[07trx400ex]

No, I have not tried dialing it in. How much does it cost and who does it (C&D Racing or GT Thunder)? I am not very knowledgeable on this subject sorry.

I think I would prefer to get after market though from what I have seen, they dial it in including in the price, and then you could always still have the stock parts as a backup. And it seems that all the trouble that it is almost better to just buy after markets than to mess with the stock shocks.

[TRXRacer1]

The rear will drop a little simply after properly adjusting the pre-load. Man do they have that tight from the factory!

[07trx400ex]

You can also get a rear link, for trails I would go with the xc link, it slightly lowers your rear thus making it GRAB better.

I do not think it would last very long if it was any lower, but lower center of gravity would definately help out, with a skid plate how would it hold up in the gnarly and rocky stuff, and fallen trees.

[the Z Man]

For now just try lowering your ride height by raising the rear spring, it is adjustable isn't it?
I also run about 3.5 lbs air in the rear and 5.5 in the front, its seems a little more stable
Racer1 is right, you can take away alot of that bounce by adjusting the rear, it is forgiving..

[the Z Man]

The compression adjustment is on the side of the rear ressy, also at the bottom of the shock is the rebound

[07trx400ex]

Ok, I will try that out this weekend and see what happens. I had no idea about the rear being adjustable I had always assumed it was not because the fronts are not.

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by 07trx400ex
No, I have not tried dialing it in. How much does it cost and who does it (C&D Racing or GT Thunder)? I am not very knowledgeable on this subject sorry.

I think I would prefer to get after market though from what I have seen, they dial it in including in the price, and then you could always still have the stock parts as a backup. And it seems that all the trouble that it is almost better to just buy after markets than to mess with the stock shocks. No need to pay someone to dial in the rear shock. The first thing you want to do is back off that pre-load. Loosen the jam nut and start backing off the spring tension until the rear drops about an inch. I swear they have it sprung for a 350lb rider! As you're adjusting it press up and down on the rear and let it level to get your new measurement. You may want a little more or less then that but it's a good starting point. Once you're done with that you can start playing with the compression and rebound settings. It's fully adjustable but I don't think most people even try. You can't hurt anything so if you play around with it a little you might save yourself from wasting money. When other 400ex owners get on my machine they swear that I had the rear revalved but it's just a little bit if the ol' basics and some garage time.

EDIT: I see Z man has you on the right track already. If you can dial in the rea then that's more money you can put towards the front. Z-man is 100% right, the resi shocks will last longer without fatiguing.

[07trx400ex]

If you don't mind, would you go over the basic steps required to dial it in.

[TRXRacer1]

Check my last post for the spring instructions. The Green arrow points to the pre-load adjustment. You'll need to loosen the top ring (jam nut) to move the other. The red arrows are the compression and rebound. Each rider likes their ride a little different so you'll just have to play around a little. You'll notice a big difference with the spring alone. You should not have to expose the spring like it is in the picture. You should be able to do all this with the subframe and airbox on.

http://miltechsolutions.tripod.com/offroad/wata/400ex/spring_arrows.jpg

[the Z Man]

The rear spring has a lock nut at the top, loosen this before you can loosen the other.
If you hold up on the rear of the bike its easier to adjust, counter clockwise is the direction you want to go, this will lower the rear of the bike.
The screw at the top of the shock is the compression, it adjusts the weight it take s to compress, you will have to play with this some to get it where you want, I think towards the H makes it softer,
The bottom of the shock on one side is the rebound, this tells it how fast to come back up, too fast will make it bounce, too slow and it will PACK up on you, meaning it will basically collapse or freeze from not coming all the way back up before it goes back down.

[coryatver]

The bucking you describes is a very normal symptom. If you want to get rid of it the only way is to get a after market shock link. Gt thunder sells them they work awesome.

I had the link and also I had the elka recreation shocks for a while and they worked exactly as you said you wanted it. The kick was gone with the rear link and the front shocks have the ssd spring and the whole quad sat lower and handled like it was on rails.

I also raced a few xc races with the elka rec shocks and they worked pretty good but after I got a lot faster I started out riding there valving and spring rate because i had them set up for a c class rider. so I am now using gt thunder 450r conversion front shocks but i have not ridden it with them.

[07trx400ex]

So if I am a 170lb rider and it is bouncing around that means I need to make it softer to absorb more of the impact right?

If I do this is it sacrificing performance of other areas like rigidity or responsiveness?

My bad I did not see zman's post yet.

[TRXRacer1]

By doing this you're enhancing the responsiveness and you won't effect the reliability of it at all. I'm a big dude and even after softening up for me it still takes the hits like a champ.

FYI, I didn't have to buy a link to get rid of the bucking.

[coryatver]

You can adjust the rear shock all you want but it will still kick it is a honda trait the 450r also does it. The only way to correct it is to relocate the top shock mount by cutting it off and rewelding it or you can get a shock linkage from gt thunder.

[07trx400ex]

I think that I will adjust the compression a good bit softer, but leave the rebound about the same.

My theory is, that if it is not compressing in the first place then there in no way it can rebound. Or am I thinking about this the wrong way.

[coryatver]

If you get new front shocks such as elkas you are also going to have to get work done to your rear shock to match. You have 2 choices you can do a ssd conversion they put a ssd spring on it and it lowers it like the front or get a link. If you do the ssd conversion the kick will still be there but the link makes it smooth as silk no matter how hard you pound the whoops.

I have been in the same exact spot as you i tried the ssd conversion and it was a waste of money the quad still was a buckin bronco. Then i got the link and my rear end has never been happier

[TRXRacer1]

It just seams weird to me that all I had to do was sag out the rear and do a little adjusting to get rid of the bucking and others need to buy parts. IDK, I guess you gotta do what works for you 07trx400ex.

[07trx400ex]

Ok, I will try that route first. But before I buy anything I want to try to adjust my rear shock.

If I make the compression softer then that is soaking up more bumps, so do I also need to adjust the rebound.

And when I make these settings softer, am I giving up performance in other areas?

I ride trails from cruising them to riding aggresively and making the decision to adjust the rar shock was such a difference. I went out over a large section of whoops on the stock rebound setting. Then I turned it 1 way and it got worse so I turned it the other past stock setting and it got better. i turned it a little more even better. Then i turned it more and I felt it lose that better feeling so I turned it back to what was best. It kept my back end down more over the whoops and bumps and it also made jumping alot smoother. As for compression and rebound I never touched. I asked a guy at a shop near by for a screw driver to adjust my shock and he said careful adjusting the compression because you can blow your shock out. Now idk how hard it is to do but I didnt want to ruin my day messing with it so I never did. What is the factory valving and springs set up for? What range of weight?

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by 07trx400ex


And when I make these settings softer, am I giving up performance in other areas? Not in my experience, it only got better with this shock. You'll see what exactly happens when you start playing with it. It's one of those things you gotta just do to fully get. Just do the spring first because everything will react different afterwards.

[07trx400ex]

Oh ok, so you just adjusted the pre-load and it got alot better?

I need to visit the dealer and get that screwdriver then, what is it called and do you remember the steps for adjusting pre-load?

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
I asked a guy at a shop near by for a screw driver to adjust my shock and he said careful adjusting the compression because you can blow your shock out. Now idk how hard it is to do but I didnt want to ruin my day messing with it so I never did. What is the factory valving and springs set up for? What range of weight? If the compression was stiff enough to do damage you wouldn't want to ride it anyway...............Brick!

IDK what they claim for wieght but what ever it is it's BS! We've got a 450r over here too and even that was to tight from the factory. I wonder what Honda's thinking is on this?