HELP! I need to know what the jetting specs are for :

[Brauap]

I just got my White Bros. E-Series Slip On! I also got a K&N. And I have an open air box. What main jet do you think it would be for:

WB E-Series S/O
K&N
and an Open Air Box?


Thank You!!!

[Pipeless416]

try a 155k main, 2.5 turns out on the screw, and a 42 pilot. that should be in the ballpark.

[my88r]

i know soon as he got one he would have posts about jetting. for you i would just get the dynojet kit. for someone inexperienced with jetting there great. they come with jets and a needle. also INSTRUCTIONS with jetting applications.

[08400EX]

Originally posted by my88r
i know soon as he got one he would have posts about jetting. for you i would just get the dynojet kit. for someone inexperienced with jetting there great. they come with jets and a needle. also INSTRUCTIONS with jetting applications.

Yes, but at least we won't have any exhaust "wars" for a few days :-)

Brauap, Congrats on finally getting the S/O and listen to MY88r's sage advice.

[Brauap]

Hey, once I get answers, I'll delete it... Also, with the dyno jet kit.. there different than actual. and there not going to say.. "For the White Brothers E-Series Slip On, the Main Jet is blah blah and for a K&N its blah and with out a lid its blah blah blah and all together its blah blah blah main."

(The blahs are #'s lol)


Does #155 sound good to you my88r?

Also, pipeless... why do you change the screw? How do you know how far? And do you have to?



Thanks!

[08400EX]

Brauap,

Seriously you need to learn and understand how a carb works and what effects the changes you will make. Just asking for jet numbers is a waste of your brain power. I assume at your age you are going to be owning and playing with ATVs and/or bikes for a LONG time. Just like anything in life, learn it so you can do it yourself.

There is a ton of information here and on the net about jetting a bike and how it affects your carb, or vice versa.

Trust me, if us ol geezers can do it so can you.

Here is a place to start, the How To section of this Forum, which BTW you should probably read most of the articles there if you truely do plan on owning ATVs/Bikes.

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=221872

You can do it, I know you can!!!

[my88r]

Originally posted by Brauap
Hey, once I get answers, I'll delete it... Also, with the dyno jet kit.. there different than actual. and there not going to say.. "For the White Brothers E-Series Slip On, the Main Jet is blah blah and for a K&N its blah and with out a lid its blah blah blah and all together its blah blah blah main."

(The blahs are #'s lol)


Does #155 sound good to you my88r?

Also, pipeless... why do you change the screw? How do you know how far? And do you have to?



Thanks!

hes talking about the mixture screw. after jetting you have popping you richin it. it doesn't say whites bro pipe. but it says with a race baffle and on no air box lid. dynojet says three turns on the mixture with the kit. it is very easy and straight forward. maybe alittle tuning.

[j450rking]

here is a how to on jetting from gtthunder i think.

PLUG CHECK & READING SPARK PLUGS
The first step is to replace the old spark plug with a new one. Make sure it is the proper plug for your machine, and that it is gapped properly. An improper plug gap will throw off the readings. If the gap is too small, it will not burn properly. If it is too large, it will cause added stress on other ignition components, causing premature failure. You should have fresh fuel at the proper octane level. Most small engines run best with 92-94 octane fuels. It is also important that you have a clean air and fuel filters for the tests.
Plug testing is the easiest way to help you dial in the jetting of the carburetor after adding performance parts and for different altitude or weather changes. The color of the spark plugs is used as an indicator and lets you know what way to start re-jetting the carburetor.
There are three basic ranges that a plug test can be used to check.
3/4-Full throttle, which is controlled primarily by the main jet
1/2 throttle, which is dominated by the taper angle of the needle and the clip position.
1/4 throttle, which is mainly, controlled by the strait diameter of the needle but also the slow circuit.
Testing the Main Jet
Once you have a new plug installed and gapped properly, start the machine and let it warm up. Take the machine for a VERY short ride to bring it up to normal operating temperature. Find an open spot of road and get it up to top gear. Roll on the throttle and hold
it wide open; 2 strokes for 3-5 seconds. 4 strokes 10 - 15 seconds. While you are still wide open you must stop/kill the engine using the kill switch while pulling in the clutch at the same time, all the while still holding the throttle wide open. Let the bike coast to a stop with the clutch still pulled in .Do not let the clutch out until you come to a complete stop.
**** It is very important that you do not let the engine slow down or idle at all. You must do it this way for every test!****
Now you need to remove the spark plug and check its condition. You want to look and take note at the white insulator part of the plug only, not the metal tip or electrode.
The insulator of the spark plug must be a light grayish-tan to light brown color. If the insulator is white, it is too lean, meaning the main jet is too small. If the insulator is black or wet, it is too rich, meaning the main jet is too big.
The steps for checking the other ranges are basically the same. If you want to check the 1/2 throttle range you want to hold it steady at 1/2 throttle in top gear for about 20-30 seconds. The same for 1/4 throttle testing, hold it steady at 1/4 throttle. Pull in the clutch and shut if off at the same time while holding the throttle at a steady speed.

BASIC CARBURETION
To be able to properly jet or re-jet a carburetor you must first know how they work. Most ATV and off-road motorcycle carburetors work basically the same way. The two most popular models are the Keihin and Mikuni.

These carbs have two primary fuel circuits; the slow/pilot circuit and the main circuit, which have several parts or components that will effect the mixture at different throttle positions. There are 4 throttle positions that are used to determine what component is effecting the mixture. They are idle/off idle, 1/4 throttle, 1/2 throttle and 3/4 to full throttle.
It is important that you remember that the main fuel circuit is only part of the entire fuel delivery and any changes you make to the slow circuit will affect the main circuit as well, because the slow/pilot circuit is delivering fuel from idle to full throttle. So you must start with the slow circuit and work your way up to the main circuit.
The Pilot/Slow Circuit
The pilot/slow circuit has two major components that affect the mixture. They are the the pilot/slow jet and the air mixture screw. The pilot/slow jet has a fixed diameter hole that controls the amount of fuel being delivered through the slow circuit. The mixture screw is an adjustment screw to control the amount of air being mixed with the fuel from the slow jet.
The Main Circuit
This circuit has 4 components that effect the mixture from about 1/4 throttle to wide open/full throttle. These parts are the throttle slide cut-away, jet needle or needle, the needle jet and the main jet. The throttle cut-away effects the amount of air but can be left alone. The needle primarily controls the mixture from 1/4 throttle to 3/4 throttle. The needle moves up and down inside the needle jet as you open and close the throttle. The diameter of the needle is what affects the mixture at 1/4 throttle. The taper of the needle and the clip position effect the mixture at 1/2 throttle up to 3/4 throttle. At 3/4 to full throttle, the mixture is controlled mostly by the main jet.
Starting From The Bottom
The first throttle range to dial in is the idle/off idle range. Any time there is a weather change or you are riding in a different area you may need to adjust the mixture screw for a clean and crisp engine response. The two main settings are the air mixture screw and the pilot/slow jet. The correct setting is the one that allows a crisp engine response with the air screw about 1 3/4 turns out. If you need to turn the air screw out more than 2 1/2 turns, then it is too rich and you need a smaller pilot jet. If you need only to turn the mixture screw out 1 turn, then it is too lean and you need a larger pilot jet.
1/4 Throttle
The mixture in this range is mostly controlled by the diameter of the needle. A lean mixture will cause the engine to hesitate and a rich mixture will cause it to sputter while keeping it at a steady speed. If there is hesitation, then a smaller needle is needed. If it is rich a larger one will need to be installed.
1/2 Throttle
This range is controlled by the clip position and taper angle of the needle. The correct clip position is often all you need to dial in this range. The correct position is the one that will allow the engine to rev cleanly from 1/4 throttle to 3/4 throttle without hesitation or sputtering. Raising the needle clip will lean the mixture and lowering the clip will richen the mixture. If you find that you are all the
way to the top or all the way to the bottom positions and the jetting is still off, you may need a different needle jet (if available) or a needle with different dimensions.
3/4 to Full Throttle
This range is controlled mostly by the main jet. A correct main jet will allow the engine to rev cleanly all the way until it drops off the power band with out sputtering or hesitation. A lean mixture will have power in the lower RPM's but will get sluggish and/or hesitate in the higher RPM's. A rich mixture will rev ok but sputter in the higher RPM ranges

[JOEX]

Originally posted by Pipeless416
try a 155k main, 2.5 turns out on the screw, and a 42 pilot. that should be in the ballpark.
I agree and IMO the jet kit is a waste of money and as far as I know do not include any pilot jets.

[my88r]

Originally posted by JOEX
I agree and IMO the jet kit is a waste of money and as far as I know do not include any pilot jets.

not pilot jets. but many main jets.

but a 155 with no airbox in the winter seems alittle lean. no air box lid changes jetting more. then a pipe. IMO

but the 42 pilot is rate on.

[Pipeless416]

Originally posted by my88r
not pilot jets. but many main jets.

but a 155 with no airbox in the winter seems alittle lean. no air box lid changes jetting more. then a pipe. IMO

but the 42 pilot is rate on.

could be, i was going to suggest a 158, but since sound seems to be such a big issue for him, i figured he'd be running like 4 plates.. not much air escaping with that setup :p

[my88r]

Originally posted by Pipeless416
could be, i was going to suggest a 158, but since sound seems to be such a big issue for him, i figured he'd be running like 4 plates.. not much air escaping with that setup :p

lol. not much
i was thinking a 160 and see how it runs. go rich then fine tune. but each bike has a different attitude.

[lorenjr83]

i have a white bros slip on with a k&n filter and outerwears. my jetting was stock when i got it like this. surprised it is still alive. my jetting is 178 Keihin main jet. that was to lean for the air box lid removed and was the biggest jet we had so we had to drill holes in a spare cover until my jetting was close. i only have four or five plates in my pipe since that is all that came with it.

[Brauap]

Thank you 08400EX. I agree %100 but I dont have the money to be buying 50 other jets I dont need. You know? Or else I would totally.

Also, with the plates, more or less plates you have to change the jetting?

So, 158 Main and 42 Pilot? And What would happen if I kept that 158 in durning the summer?

Thank You!

[Pipeless416]

Originally posted by Brauap
And What would happen if I kept that 158 in durning the summer?

you tell us, a little research about climate change and jetting will go a long way. try to find the answer and tell us what you come up with. you'll never learn how it works if we just keep giving you all the answers.. :macho

[Brauap]

I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU!!!!! lol jk. I just dont want to mess up my motor, I'd just ask the pros.. but.. I'll do my best! :macho

[08400EX]

Originally posted by Brauap
I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU!!!!! lol jk. I just dont want to mess up my motor, I'd just ask the pros.. but.. I'll do my best! :macho

That's the point, if you learn how to do it properly you will have a much lower chance of messing anything up then just by listening to the pros. They can only guess at what you need, every engine is different. Your engine could have more or less wear and more or less compression, valve timing sightly off from worn chain, valve adjustments not to spec, different gas in your area, etc,etc. Heck for all you know it could be a 440 or something not stock.

The pros aren't there to do the spark plugs tests/inspection for you, only you can do that.

In the time you have spent on just this thread you could have read almost every good carb function/jetting posts on this site and others.

It is one thing to compare"notes", ideas and experiances, but a whole nother thing to go about setting up a carb "blind". At a minimum you need to have an understanding of what effects the changes you make will have.

You are obviously a smart guy, now is the time to learn how to do this. Plus it will be cheaper for you in the long run, the knowledge is free, and buying 1 or 2 jets vs 7 or 8 jets and/or a piston or 2 is a lot cheaper.

I am not trying to beat you up about this, I am really trying to help, but you need to stop and think,... do you want to always depend on others for every little thing, or do you want to be the one that others can depend on.

Trust me, it's a lot more fun giving advice than asking for it... I know because I am having a BLAST trying to help you!


Ha. ha!! :D

[Brauap]

Looks like I am going to be buying a Dyno Jet Kit! I asked my cousin over the phone about 20 mins ago, (use to race) and he told me just buy a dynojet kit aswell! He said it has all the instructions and stuff! So.. ;)

[lorenjr83]

So... Shouldn't you be in school right now?

[Brauap]

SNOW DAY!!!! for the 2ed day in the row! :devil:

[Hondamaster5505]

Reading all these jetting threads reminds me I have to jet mine still.

Im probably gonna go woth a 152 Main and 42 pilot. Thats what DMC recomends, and I think it is part of the fact it doesnt have a "lean condition" and it runs alright the way it is now.

Im only 14, but I learned so much from my dad over the years, so i dont think i'll have a problem.

[Brauap]

I dont understand the dyno jet instructions!





Stage 1
Intended for motorcycles with a stock engine using the stock airbox, air filter and stock pipe. Stage 1 kits are fully adjustable to allow the use of a well designed aftermarket pipes and stock replacement air filters like K&N. Stage 1 kits are designed to improve throttle response and driveability and in most cases power increases of approximately 5% throughout the entire power range can be achieved.


Stage 2
Intended for motorcycles with a stock or mildly tuned engine using a well designed aftermarket pipe with a modified airbox and a stock replacement air filter. Stage 2 kits are designed for applications where individual filters cannot be installed and for applications where airbox modification improves the engine's performance. In most cases power increases of approximately 8% can be achieved.


Stage 1 says its for Stock but later says are fully adjustible to allow the use of a well designed aftermarket pipes and stock replacement airfilters like K&N.

And I will also have my lid removed. So should I use Stage 2?


______________________________________________
Also, I dont know about the weather. The weather here sucks!
One day its -2 and 2 days later its 40-60. Serious. So I dont want
to have to keep changing the jets every day... What should I do
about that?
______________________________________________



Thank-You!

[my88r]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Brauap
[B]

Stage 2
Intended for motorcycles with a stock or mildly tuned engine using a well designed aftermarket pipe with a modified airbox and a stock replacement air filter. Stage 2 kits are designed for applications where individual filters cannot be installed and for applications where airbox modification improves the engine's performance. In most cases power increases of approximately 8% can be achieved.

you want stage 2.

[08400EX]

Originally posted by Brauap
I dont understand the dyno jet instructions!



http://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies2/bash.gif http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/graemlins/banghead.gif

[Brauap]

Originally posted by my88r
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Brauap
[B]

Stage 2
Intended for motorcycles with a stock or mildly tuned engine using a well designed aftermarket pipe with a modified airbox and a stock replacement air filter. Stage 2 kits are designed for applications where individual filters cannot be installed and for applications where airbox modification improves the engine's performance. In most cases power increases of approximately 8% can be achieved.

you want stage 2.

Ok, thanks!

[j450rking]

yeah they don't help:cusjavascript:smilie(':cuss:')
Upsets:

[my88r]

Originally posted by j450rking
yeah they don't help:cusjavascript:smilie(':cuss:')
Upsets:


:confused:

[coryatver]

take the dynojunk kit back and put a 158 main in and ride

[Brauap]

So, will a 158 work summer and winter? Do you have to mess witht he aair/fuel screw?

Thanks coryatver

[Hondamaster5505]

Originally posted by Brauap
So, will a 158 work summer and winter? Do you have to mess witht he aair/fuel screw?

Thanks coryatver

Thats for one to find out;)

[Brauap]

Com'on. I just need an answer! I just need a yes/no answer! Please! I dont want to find out the hard way, and end up buying me a new engine, then what? Opps! I guess I did need to adjust that screw! Please?!

[my88r]

he thinks if we tell what to run, it will run great. i wish it was that easy.

big difference between winter and summer with jetting. but if you read about that. you should know.


A MIND IS A TERRIBLE THING

[08400EX]

Originally posted by Brauap
Com'on. I just need an answer! I just need a yes/no answer! Please! I dont want to find out the hard way, and end up buying me a new engine, then what? Opps! I guess I did need to adjust that screw! Please?!

The pilot screw will always need to be adjusted after every mod and preferably at the beginning of each season change and if you are going to be riding at a 3000 foot or more elevation difference from where you usually ride.

The factory(and proper) way is called an "idle drop" setting. It is covered in the service manuals.

In a nutshell you hook up a tachometer, adjust your idle to 1400rpm, then adjust pilot screw in or out to get the highest RPM, then adjust idle screw back to 1400, repeat the pilot screw adjustment for highest rpm, then adjust idle screw again to 1400, then turn pilot screw in approx 1/2 turn.

Any other way without directly sampling the air fuel ratio is not going to be correct. Although a spark plug inspection will help get it close, just not as close as the other 2 ways.

You can buy an inexpensive ($10-20) "lawn mower" single cylinder tachometer to use for this procedure.

[coryatver]

The 400ex jetting is pretty forgiving it should be fine all year round with a 158! Yes braap just put it in. your motor isn't going to blow up or something don't be afraid just do it.

You don't need to know anything just put the 158 in, and 42 pilot if you have it for easy starting. And your good to go.

[08400EX]

Also take $5 out of the money you saved on the exhaust and buy this Downloadable PDF verion of the Service manuals.

Ebay item 290204729598

[Pipeless416]

Originally posted by Brauap
Com'on. I just need an answer! I just need a yes/no answer! Please! I dont want to find out the hard way, and end up buying me a new engine, then what? Opps! I guess I did need to adjust that screw! Please?!

i can tell you that the difference between a 155 and 158 will not destroy your engine, you just will not be running at optimum power. you'll know if its way off. i really suggest buying a clymer's or honda service manual and just look through it. honestly, you beat the dead horse with questions that some very basic research would easily answer. by getting a manual, i think you will gain much more knowledge and be more aware of how your engines run.

[coryatver]

no do not do that. Someone pirated the service manual and now are selling it for 5 bucks on ebay???? not good to be involved with!!!! If you are going to pirate it might as well download it for nothing like the guy that is burning it on a disc and selling it on ebay did!!! just download it if you look around you can download it for free.

[08400EX]

Originally posted by coryatver
just download it if you look around you can download it for free.

How about that link ??? If we don't make it easy it ain't gonna happen :-)

[Hondamaster5505]

Your not gonna blow up your engine from jetting being a lil off:rolleyes: lol.

The only time you can blow your engine, is if your running way to lean. Which if you put some kind of higher jet wont happen.

Like they say, "leaner is meaner, until your engine blows"

[Pipeless416]

Originally posted by 08400EX
How about that link ??? If we don't make it easy it ain't gonna happen :-)

i'll say. i dont know how much easier this can get... but brauap, you seriously need to gain a better understanding of whats going on with 4 stroke engines before you keep working on them. get a manual (hard copy or whatever you want.) i'd definitely prefer just buying an actual book, because then you can take it into the garage with you and just work from there. and from now on, please search for the basic questions like this.

[j450rking]

get a clymer manual and read everything in there (for you i would say twice:D ) and try searching atleast alittle bit before you post bc there is about 1 millon kids like you that have posted the same thing without searching. ssa bmud

[my88r]

Originally posted by j450rking
get a clymer manual and read everything in there (for you i would say twice:D ) and try searching atleast alittle bit before you post bc there is about 1 millon kids like you that have posted the same thing without searching. ssa bmud

yea, a clymer would be better for him.:D

[Dustin075]

i have never jeted a carb in my life, and with the info you guys have put in this post i feel i can jet my quad with no problems. (just in the first 2 pages)

[Brauap]

sorry. I just got a manual. And I just ordered a 42 poilet, 155 main and a 158 main from jetsrus.



I GUESS THIS THREAD IS ..... CLOSED..... !!

[JOEX]

Originally posted by Brauap
sorry. I just got a manual. And I just ordered a 42 poilet, 155 main and a 158 main... [/B]
That wasn't so hard, was it?:cool:

[08400EX]

Originally posted by Brauap
sorry. I just got a manual. And I just ordered a 42 poilet, 155 main and a 158 main from jetsrus.


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