Slip On's -- E-Series vs. Big Gun

[Brauap]

What do you think is the best? Why? Make sure to explain! I am kind of rooting for the Big Gun.

Thank You!

I had the E-Series, HP and Torque wise it doesnt really even compete with an HMF but thats besides the point. The best thing I loved was how it gives you an extra bit of RPM's and it was unique sounding. I think its good how its tunable with disk. If you want to hear how it sounds check out this video of me running an E-Series in a drag race. I had the air box lid on and I wasnt even jetted so I wasnt running much better than stck but once it was jetted it ran great!

1 http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=8057748

2 http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=8057599

[08400EX]

Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
I had the E-Series, HP and Torque wise it doesnt really even compete with an HMF but thats besides the point.



Dang dude, I don't believe even Michael Shumacher could "FEEL" this type of power difference (see dyno below)!!

I really think you guys are just relating the sound you hear as a difference in power.

Oh and this is from the same guy that did the dyno that shows the HMF making so much power over stock. I gotta tell ya, a dyno comparo that shows the 400EX stock at 30+hp at the wheels just doesn't carry any weight with me. I have logged hundreds of hours on a dyno and I have seen all the "dyno games".

Originally posted by 08400EX
Dang dude, I don't believe even Michael Shumacher could "FEEL" this type of power difference (see dyno below)!!

I really think you guys are just relating the sound you hear as a difference in power.

Oh and this is from the same guy that did the dyno that shows the HMF making so much power over stock. I gotta tell ya, a dyno comparo that shows the 400EX stock at 30+hp at the wheels just doesn't carry any weight with me. I have logged hundreds of hours on a dyno and I have seen all the "dyno games".

Yeah thats the HMF slip on vs a WB E-Series full system. Full sytem doesnt even make as much as the HMF slip on. I had an E-Series slip and now I have an HMF on so cool your jets man!

[08400EX]

Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
Yeah thats the HMF slip on vs a WB E-Series full system. Full sytem doesnt even make as much as the HMF slip on. I had an E-Series slip and now I have an HMF on so cool your jets man!

Jets are always cool, I promise. This is all in fun. We can all learn from each other with discussions like this.

The point is there is not a rat's hair difference in any of them, not in the real world. Almost every system on the market is gonna make within 1/2hp of each other on the same bike if jetted correctly.

There are maybe a handful of people in the world that can feel that difference.. and trust me they aren't here wasting their time :-)

Sure the HMF might make a little more than some, maybe 1/4 hp, BUT it is also louder. The louder more free flowing exhaust is pretty much always gonna make a little more.

BUT, at what cost!!

10 years from now your children may not have a place to ride because of all these loud exhausts. I applaud the companies that use their brains and make exhausts that not only make great power, but don't piss every one off. Ironically HMF is one of the companies that has recently produced such a product.. for the utility quads. Their Swamp Series makes as much or more power than the loud as heck "Utility series" and is only slightly louder than stock. Now that's something to brag about.

Taking a tube, and putting a big perforated tube inside of it with a little glass fiber around it is not very impressive, its been done since the 50s (or earlier). Ever heard of a "glass pack", "Cherry Bomb" ??? 95% of the ATV exhaust out there are like this, some use a little smaller inner perforated tube and use a little more fiber which makes them a little quieter and yes makes slightly less power.

Anyway, I know you are proud of your HMF and obviously like pounding your chest about it. That's cool and I have no problem with that. BUT, just because you think your HMF is the best doesn't mean other people may feel the same about what they have.. and they can pound their chest too :-)

What I would REALLY like to see is more of a real Pipe shootout. From what I have seen so far the dyno tests all involve filter changes and lid removals etc at the same time the slip on is added.. Is the power difference you see on the dyno, the exhaust??, the filter??, or just from removing the lid??

A real comparison would be changing one thing at a time and running it on the dyno. Of course jetting changes would be allowed to tune each product to a specific and uniform air fuel ratio. That and only that will show what each product will do.

If I were to try to sell products in the automotive performance world like they do in the ATV world you would get laughed off the face of the earth. When you post dyno charts for an exhaust for example it is always with just that ONE change, nothing else. Any change of other parts or variables is just "padding the dyno".

Oh, I dynoed my Big Gun exhaust yesterday,,, check out this dyno by golly...

:devil:

If you dont believe me about Big Gun not being so great look at this shootout. The thing to notice is some used the full sytem and others dont. read the captions and look at the pictures and it will say. FMF is the most suprising silencer believe it or not. The HMF may not be the highest HP numbers but its a very cheaply priced exhaust and I couldnt see paying $50 more for maybe 0.2HP more HP than it from other companies. The article is great to read and very interesting to see. Sparks doesnt look so impressive after seeing those numbers and for how much it cost.

http://www.atvmagonline.com/output.cfm?ID=30961

[08400EX]

Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
If you dont believe me about Big Gun not being so great look at this shootout. The thing to notice is some used the full sytem and others dont. read the captions and look at the pictures and it will say. FMF is the most suprising silencer believe it or not. The HMF may not be the highest HP numbers but its a very cheaply priced exhaust and I couldnt see paying $50 more for maybe 0.2HP more HP than it from other companies. The article is great to read and very interesting to see. Sparks doesnt look so impressive after seeing those numbers and for how much it cost.

http://www.atvmagonline.com/output.cfm?ID=30961

I think you are missing what I am saying..

This exerpt from the article you reference above says it all...


"After we had tested almost every pipe, including recording radar runs, we honestly couldn't feel that much of a difference in our seat-of-the-pants riding time. Sure some of these pipes were louder than stock and seemed to provide more torque and power over the stock system, but from one system to another — including bolt-on silencers — we couldn't really "feel" a difference.
The radar numbers backed us up on that. We used our Stalker radar system with acceleration testing software. Sure, there were minute differences, but nothing shocking. There was no drastic speed horsepower differences between the competitor pipes. "

[08400EX]

Oh, and besides that, I've got a new Yoshi Carbon Fiber Full system coming and it will kick your HMF's butt anyday http://www.f150online.com/forums/images/smilies/banana.gif


JUST KIDDING, come on, it's just an exhaust dude.!!!! Buy and/or use the one you like! Heck I'm man enough to admit I bought the Yoshi just because it looks good (and is quieter than the BG). I could care less if it makes the most power or not.. You know why???........

Because my filter flows 10 times better than yours, and I swear I have seen a dyno that proves it !! http://www.f150online.com/forums/images/smilies/devil.gif

lol UNI doesnt flow better than a K&N

[08400EX]

Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
lol UNI doesnt flow better than a K&N


Yeah it sure doesn't... FLOW AS MUCH DUST !!!!http://thefamilybiz.org/ezboard/emoticons/banana2.gif

GOTCHA !! http://www.f150online.com/forums/images/smilies/beers.gif

[JOEX]

According to they Dyno chart comparing the WB & HMF there is a .77 difference. Not very noticable and I don't care if the WB is a full system. From what i've read over the years a full system on the 400ex isn't worth it until the motor is getting well built.

I saw the torque sheet in the other thread and there isn't much difference there either.

I bet if someone were to dyno 5 different 400ex's with the same set ups there will be 5 different peak numbers. Wouldn't be surprised if the difference was more twice what is shown in that graph.


JMO of course:D

[Brauap]

What about a K&N with an Outerwares cover? Still flow dust?

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by 08400EX
The point is there is not a rat's hair difference in any of them, not in the real world. Almost every system on the market is gonna make within 1/2hp of each other on the same bike if jetted correctly. Outstanding statement!

Everybody would love to think one pipe is miles better then the other but the truth is they're very close. That's why I always say just buy the one that makes you feel warm and fuzzy. I have a T4 now that I bought 5 years ago and if I didn't get a killer deal on it I would have never paid that much money for a glorified glasspack.

Brauap, both pipes are good and you will feel great gains over stock with both of them. I just bought my buddy a Lexx pipe today in trade for a parts quad. I suggested Lexx to him because they're under $200 and it will work just as good as a $300+ pipe. I say get what ever pipe you think would be cool to have mounted to your quad. If you dial it in correctly you can't go wrong.


Originally posted by Brauap
What about a K&N with an Outerwares cover? Still flow dust? I've ran both K&N and foam filters. The outerwear for the K&N just keeps the bigger stuff off and makes cleaning 10x easier. The K&N will not flow any more dust then a foam filter if you clean and oil it frequently. I recently switched to a Moose Foam filter and I can not feel a difference in power.

[my88r]

Originally posted by Brauap
What about a K&N with an Outerwares cover? Still flow dust?

yep, i ran that i had sediment in my carb boot. go with foam and a outerwears.

[XXXRACER165]

THAT DYNO CHART WHERE THE HMF S/O MAKES MORE POWER THAN THE WB E-SERIES FULL SYSTEM IS A TRICK! That engine must not be a 440 because obviously a s/o will make more power on a stock engine, but NOT a 440cc engine. On a 440 engine the WB full system MAKES more power than a HMF full system. Guaranteed!

[Brauap]

Originally posted by my88r
yep, i ran that i had sediment in my carb boot. go with foam and a outerwears.

Looks like im getting a UNI! I have a question about them, could you buy like a 450R or a YFZ UNI, because it is larger, or would it not be worth it?

Thanks!

[my88r]

Originally posted by Brauap
Looks like im getting a UNI! I have a question about them, could you buy like a 450R or a YFZ UNI, because it is larger, or would it not be worth it?

Thanks!


450r/ ex i believe are the same.

[08400EX]

Originally posted by my88r
450r/ ex i believe are the same.


Correct, same Part number.

[08400EX]

Speaking of exhausts, I wish this company would make one of these to fit a 400EX (see photo). It is a more modern exhaust design (instead of just a perfed tube) and is closer to some of the better automotive exhausts. Has a DEEP sound and makes lots of power and a low sound level. Plus less packing to wear out as time goes on.

http://bub.com/ATV/Utility-ATV/Honda/A6-1002/close-photo.jpg

http://www.hondapartsworld.com/ProductImages/bubbigboreexhaust.jpg

[Hondamaster5505]

Hahahahahah! My DMC makes .5 less horsepower then the Sparks and I only pain $100:blah:

But really, whats with people saying full systems on the 400ex aren't as good as slip-ons with a stock engine?

Ill bet anyone my DMC full will make more power then an HMF. It depends on the exhaust. My pipe was designed for stock to mildy modded engines, and scravenge the most exhaust out of the cylinder because of the dual headers.

Im sure others won't feel that different in the seat of the pants run, but im just making a point.

Don't get me wrong, HMF makes a nice exhaust, but i studied one before. Its a 2in round hole with packing around it. Wow:rolleyes: how amazing is that achievment!

Whatever makes you happy, go for it. I would NEVER sell my DMC for any other exhaust. But thats me.

And xxxracer, you keep saying that you love your WB, and it makes the most power out of your bike. So why are you trying to sell it:huh

[flauge]

Originally posted by Hondamaster5505
Hahahahahah! My DMC makes .5 less horsepower then the Sparks and I only pain $100:blah:

But really, whats with people saying full systems on the 400ex aren't as good as slip-ons with a stock engine?

Ill bet anyone my DMC full will make more power then an HMF. It depends on the exhaust. My pipe was designed for stock to mildy modded engines, and scravenge the most exhaust out of the cylinder because of the dual headers.

Im sure others won't feel that different in the seat of the pants run, but im just making a point.

Don't get me wrong, HMF makes a nice exhaust, but i studied one before. Its a 2in round hole with packing around it. Wow:rolleyes: how amazing is that achievment!

Whatever makes you happy, go for it. I would NEVER sell my DMC for any other exhaust. But thats me.

And xxxracer, you keep saying that you love your WB, and it makes the most power out of your bike. So why are you trying to sell it:huh
I beleive theres a lil bit more to it than just a 2 in round hole with packing around it. Core length plays a part too in making power and where at in the powerband, just like primary length on a header. Really if you ask me, the only biggest difference I see in most pipes is where they make power at. Some might have a lil more peak power over the other but with less torque and vice versa. ;)

[Hondamaster5505]

Originally posted by flauge
I beleive theres a lil bit more to it than just a 2 in round hole with packing around it. Core length plays a part too in making power and where at in the powerband, just like primary length on a header. Really if you ask me, the only biggest difference I see in most pipes is where they make power at. Some might have a lil more peak power over the other but with less torque and vice versa. ;)

agreed.

Like a lot of people are like, "my pipe makes more power, it has so much low end!" while his buddy with the mid-top end pipe is going, "what? mine makes way more power. Feel the top-end!"

so i totally agree with you.

[XXXRACER165]

I'm trying to sell my pipe for one of those cylone pipes cause they sound cool.

[Pipeless416]

Originally posted by XXXRACER165
THAT DYNO CHART WHERE THE HMF S/O MAKES MORE POWER THAN THE WB E-SERIES FULL SYSTEM IS A TRICK! That engine must not be a 440 because obviously a s/o will make more power on a stock engine, but NOT a 440cc engine. On a 440 engine the WB full system MAKES more power than a HMF full system. Guaranteed!

i know, you always hate what you don't run. nearly all of your posts are about how your 440 is amazing and your w/b full system is so much better than anything else. it's getting old.. theres much better 400's around. anyway, what 08400EX is saying is the complete truth. no matter what you get, it'll be better than stock. i would base my decision off of sound output, and price.

[Hondamaster5505]

Originally posted by Pipeless416
no matter what you get, it'll be better than stock.


WRONG WRONG WRONG!

We had a Cobra, yes crappy cobra, on our old warrior, and it acually lost power.

So not everything is better than stock

:p

[Ruby Soho]

i dont think anyone really would buy a cobra now a days:p

[XXXRACER165]

Originally posted by Pipeless416
nearly all of your posts are about how your 440 is amazing and your w/b full system is so much better than anything else. it's getting old.. theres much better 400's around.

I've yet too see that. The only one on here anyway I wouldn't stand a chance in a 1/8 mile is Sandman69's Nossed 400EX. I can.....wait, have beaten 5 465cc EX's in a drag race + I'm a superior rider. I welcome any challenges.

[Pipeless416]

Originally posted by Hondamaster5505
WRONG WRONG WRONG!

We had a Cobra, yes crappy cobra, on our old warrior, and it acually lost power.

So not everything is better than stock

:p

ok point proven lol. i forgot about those.. and dg's.

I challenge you to a dual. My moms bicycle vs your quad lol i'm just messin around. 440 will s*** on a stock bore 400ex when done right. My friend had a 440 stroker and man every gear pulled so hard it was insane. The only thing is he never changed the gearing so it was crazy acceleration but didnt have a whole lot of top speed but it still kicked everyone elses 400ex a**.

[Hondamaster5505]

Originally posted by XXXRACER165
I've yet too see that. The only one on here anyway I wouldn't stand a chance in a 1/8 mile is Sandman69's Nossed 400EX. I can.....wait, have beaten 5 465cc EX's in a drag race + I'm a superior rider. I welcome any challenges.

ITS ON!

My 1200hp chevelle drag car against your 440 for pinks:p

haha, jk. we dont have a chevelle:(

[XXXRACER165]

Originally posted by Hondamaster5505
ITS ON!

My 1200hp chevelle drag car against your 440 for pinks:p

haha, jk. we dont have a chevelle:(


LOL I'd still beat it in a 300' drag.

[Pipeless416]

Originally posted by XXXRACER165
LOL I'd still beat it in a 300' drag. :rolleyes:

[my88r]

Originally posted by Pipeless416
:rolleyes:


he never gives up.lol

[Pipeless416]

Originally posted by my88r
he never gives up.lol

i noticed.. haha. i also noticed that he got 8 votes in the qotm he entered.. can you say sabotage? lol anyway, back to the original thread. sorry brauap. ;)

[Brauap]

Not a problem. To tell you the truth, I like that. When people go off topic, sometimes. Hey, Does anyone have a E-Series they wanna sell? S/O

[Brauap]

Not a problem. To tell you the truth, I like that. When people go off topic, sometimes. Hey, Does anyone have a E-Series they wanna sell? S/O

[XXXRACER165]

Originally posted by Pipeless416
i noticed.. haha. i also noticed that he got 8 votes in the qotm he entered.. can you say sabotage? lol anyway, back to the original thread. sorry brauap. ;)


Just remember Talking $h^! does nothing good and what you just said is discrimination so you are REPORTED.

[klutch]

He's just saying beauty is in the eye of the beholder. He thinks your 400ex is ugly. No offence but i hate the ways yours looks. I dont know how you got as many votes as you did... though i am not the one to really care. just deal with it and move on everyone is tougher or cooler online.... it really doesnt matter.


Now we can we please go back to the main topic? and you know... maybe stay on it?

[my88r]

Originally posted by XXXRACER165
Just remember Talking $h^! does nothing good and what you just said is discrimination so you are REPORTED.

i don't see that as discrimination:huh


but lets stay on topic:macho

[Pipeless416]

Originally posted by my88r
i don't see that as discrimination:huh


but lets stay on topic:macho

meh, to each their own. anyway, if you check the for sale section and ebay, you can usually find quite a few for sale. oleboy87 gave my brother a great deal, and all it took was some elbow grease and some time to have a nice looking pipe. many used e series pipes go for less than $100.

[my88r]

Originally posted by Pipeless416
meh, to each their own. anyway, if you check the for sale section and ebay, you can usually find quite a few for sale. oleboy87 gave my brother a great deal, and all it took was some elbow grease and some time to have a nice looking pipe. many used e series pipes go for less than $100.

i got my full e-series from ebay. 80 shipped. it was the full system with headers. needed some help but for the price.. cant beat that. i used until i got my new fmf Q2 and high flows. so just keep looking around. to find the deals. learn the ebay searching methods. :chinese:

[Pipeless416]

also, i dunno if you ever considered it, but if you save up you could look into the big gun evo series. heres a picture of my dad's evo limited series on his z. it produces great power and is also very quiet. the only downside is the price tag.

[Brauap]

Well, could you keep your eye out for me, please? I have been looking and I can barly find some on here, and barly any on eBay right now. I need another set of eyes ;)

THANKS!

[Brauap]

Originally posted by Pipeless416
also, i dunno if you ever considered it, but if you save up you could look into the big gun evo series. heres a picture of my dad's evo limited series on his z. it produces great power and is also very quiet. the only downside is the price tag.

I know, I just don't have that kind of money. I am looking for a cheep/good pipe (e-series). I really dont want to spend anything over 100, but if its a few bucks over.. thats fine.

[my88r]

Originally posted by Brauap
Well, could you keep your eye out for me, please? I have been looking and I can barly find some on here, and barly any on eBay right now. I need another set of eyes ;)

THANKS!


will do man:macho

[Brauap]

Thank-You! :D

[my88r]

Originally posted by Brauap
Thank-You! :D

pm sent

[DF400ex]

If I were home I'd be selling my E-Series with painted and wrapped headers. I wanna get something quieter. Love the sound of it though. Only problem is it after an all day ride it makes my ears ring.

Anyone ever use the quiet core? How is it?

[DF400ex]

edit... I hate accidential double posts

[Brauap]

So, the e-series is LOUD? Dang. I too want to know how it is with the q-core. :confused:

Does anyone want to sell their slip-on? Doesn't have to be white brothers.........................

[400exBRAAP]

i highly doubt its outragously loud. i heard one, and it wasnt to bad. it all depends on the persons idea of loud. i have an R4 on my 400, well 416, and it is loud. i know it is, cuz my dad can hear me like a mile away from my house when im coming home from work. and after a long day of riding, my ears do ring for a little while, but not to bad, becuz i am used to being around loud things, such as tractors and snowmobiles, and gettiing right down by the engine and listening for problems, so my right ear has a little worse hearing than my left, thats why my R4 don't bother me none at all.

like i said, it just depends on what you are used to. so if you think or want an e-series, go for it, i am sure you would be very happy with it

[Pipeless416]

i dont know if you're interested or not, but theres a dmc alien on ebay thats going for $50 right now. thats for a full system too. however there are still three days left on it and it might be a bit louder than youd want. but you're right, there arent many e series pipes out there. if thats what you really want, you might need to wait a little bit, but one will come around eventually.

[Brauap]

Thank you. I want a quiet ccore for the White Brother's.. but they got bought out, so were could I find one?

[Brauap]

Remember that e-series that was on eBay w/ the K&N? Well, he closed it for me because I was gonig to go and pick it up for 70 bucks but he never told me about the mid pipe being "broke." I might still go and get it, but he said just bbring my bike over, so we can line it up and weld it. Sould I still buy it?

[Pipeless416]

sounds kinda like a shady seller... how far would the trip be? you can get "ready to bolt on and use" e series' for less than $70 sometimes.. i'd talk to the parents on that one and go by their discretion. if i were you, i'd get my money back and wait for the next one to come around. sometimes finding the right parts is just a big waiting game.

[Brauap]

I didn't pay him yet (cash). And he told me on the phone that the midpipe "swivels" and it does. He said like the weld broke. So my dad said we'd have to take the rivels out, and take it apart and weld it from the inside. He is real nice. So you think I should just wait?

[Pipeless416]

you'd have to talk to your dad about it. the fact that the seller didnt tell you it was broken would turn me away from it. however, its a different story since you didn't pay him yet. i'd say offer him $50. for a broken e series, he would be lucky to get anything more.

[Brauap]

Alright. Thanks! Could you please just keep your eye out for e-series for me, please?

Thank You!

[Pipeless416]

will do! ive been searching. i'll PM you anything i find.

[my88r]

you guys see that all black fmf mega max. on there. looks terrible but i might put a bid on it. my e-series was very loud even with the Q tip. i like to try different pipes. i had at least 5 pipes for my r. until i settled on a paul turner type 6.

[tdmopar59]

well i've been reading up on this thread... sounds like i'm not the only one on a budget right now:D i am going to read the 400ex pipe test article in a second... but as of right now i'm leaning towards an hmf slip on... i do like yoshimura but its soo expensive....

[tdmopar59]

well that didnt take to long... i was curious though... they said they used 13 disks or something in the white bros e series.... do you have to do that yourself or does it come like that??? either way it seemed like a good system...

[Brauap]

I GOT MY E-SERIES!!!!!!!! :devil: :muscle: :blah: :macho Its the one that was on eBay w/ the K&N! One problem..... the mid pipe's weld is broke, but we'll just reweld it. He wanted 70 but good ol' dad gude him down to 50! It cleaned up real nice too!

[08400EX]

Originally posted by Brauap
I GOT MY E-SERIES!!!!!!!! :devil: :muscle: :blah: :macho Its the one that was on eBay w/ the K&N! One problem..... the mid pipe's weld is broke, but we'll just reweld it. He wanted 70 but good ol' dad gude him down to 50! It cleaned up real nice too!


http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/threadworthlesswithoutpics.gif

CONGRATS!!!!

[tdmopar59]

thats good to hear braup!! congrats!! now im on the search.. lol and i have changed my mind about 4 million times so far... fellas ya'll can feel free to guide me in the right direction too:D lol

[Brauap]

Originally posted by 08400EX
[B]/threadworthlesswithoutpics.gif[B]

Your right! ;)

Here it is!

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa283/braaup/100_1868.jpg

This is the mid pipe..

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa283/braaup/100_1870.jpg

[08400EX]

Cool!

That is an easy fix. Just make sure you have it positiioned the way you want it before you weld the mid pipe on.

Measure and mark 3 times before you weld it, OR do a few tack welds with it on the bike, then take it off to finish up the welds.