Honda redefines....

[LT80]

Honda redefines::
How many pro riders can leave a company cuz of poor sponsorship.
How many amatures leave cuz of no sponsorship.

Listen up American Honda, you have bigger balls than a elephant!
You use my daughters abilitys and name to support a false sence of quality in your machines. PLUS, you wouldn't cough up a broken spark plug to help out.
Your obviously very proud of the 1 time ATVA pro champion.HAHA

Ya she raced (notice the "d") Honda's, faithfully since she advanced from the mini's.
Let's think on that,,
We use a stock frame (course that's all been re-enforced cuz they need to be)
We use stock electrics, course some of those parts needed to be aftermarket.
We use stock plastic, course we have to buy countless gas tanks cuz your lousy formed in nuts spin.
Certainly no stock motor, too slow stock.
Front end,swing,shocks, all aftermarket, cuz yours break.

I will hand it to you tho..GREAT thumb throttle and clutch cable!!!

GO POLARIS!!

[blholtz]

good the more people that start to realize that honda does not give a crap about there riders (pro or amateur) then maybe these riders will start supporting the manufacturers that support them in return.

I run a ltr-450 and the only part of my frame that cracked after two seasons of riding was right at the foot peg mounts. Forget honda.

[NJ450rider]

Im suprised more people havent replied to this. Maybe its because they know its the truth. At least half of the riders on that list plus other top pros that havent won a championship have left honda for better rides and alot more support. Itll be interesting to see how honda does this year considering not many are on one!! LOL

This will be my last year on a honda 450R. Im just waiting to see how the other new 450's hold up to longterm abuse.

I agree 100% that everyone should sell there hondas and buy another brand atv that wants to support you and this sport. Its not on a Honda........

[Nick110]

I know that after this year I will be riding something other than Honda. Maybe going green.

[450raider]

well growing a little since i started riding ive toned down on the biased brand opinions (somewhat :devil: ) and lerned that every brands 450's are pretty much the same (pick style and color, japanese ones anyway) but has theyre own little pros and cons and one of the biggest pros honda has behind it is reliability theres people out there that think if its a honda itll last forever (anything would if you take care of it right?) and honda knows that, so why care for racers, if some average guy is lookin for a quad and his neighbor is sellin so hard to get a honda whats most likely to happen? and ive said it once and a million, i think honda has world class machines but the poorest customer care people in the buisness. imo

[400exrider707]

For years Honda was the most reliable, back in the day Honda used to use much tighter tolerances on their motor specs than other manufacturers, that's why you find so many die hard Honda dirt bike guys. Now the playing fields are leveled. I still like my Honda, it's paid for, and I feel like I know the ins and outs of my machine. I also like some of the small features that Honda has engineered into their designs. A lot of the manufacturers are startying to utilize these designs as well. I dont think any of the 450 race quads have the reliablity that Honda was notorious for. They're high performance. Look at how much power we're squeezing out of a single cylinder 4-stroke machine... the power/engine size is really crazy! You cant expect anything to last forever like that.

[ALAMX37]

Ride whatever you want but at the end of the year red will reign supreme every time.
Look as far back as you want Honda owns our sport and will continue to dominate.
You may not like how they run things but they win championships and thats all that matters to me.

[54warrior]

Great post LT80!!! Even you're smart enough to ride a lil' Suzuki, lol!!!

So Angela's going to be riding a Polaris this year?? Good for her!

You wouldn't happen to know anything about Fox Raceway would ya??? Is it closed now for good?? I've only heard rumors from unreliable sources...figured you'd know?

[Nick110]

Originally posted by ALAMX37
Ride whatever you want but at the end of the year red will reign supreme every time.
Look as far back as you want Honda owns our sport and will continue to dominate.
You may not like how they run things but they win championships and thats all that matters to me.

I take it you have never been to an MX national. Last year there wasnt nearly as many Hondas as the year before. A lot more Zukis and Yammies last year. I bet this year will be even worse for Honda, with the addition of more Kawi's, Can am, KTM, polaris.

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by ALAMX37
Ride whatever you want but at the end of the year red will reign supreme every time.
Look as far back as you want Honda owns our sport and will continue to dominate.
You may not like how they run things but they win championships and thats all that matters to me.

These were true statements 5 years ago. The sport (and the machines) have changed considerably since then.

[54warrior]

Originally posted by ALAMX37
You may not like how they run things but they win championships and thats all that matters to me.

Sounds like your an inside guy from Honda Corporate, seeing how those championships matter so much to you!!!

[my88r]

if i where to pick a 450. ktm all the way. my ktm has been very good to me. no honda 450r for me. i do like my ex.:D

[RaptorRacer45]

Ive been waitng a long time for a group like this to form......Honda Blows! YES and finally im not off topic!:D

[klutch]

I find it pretty pathetic that you guys are putting down Honda. Is it just to piss people off or to state your opinion? I ride Honda because I like them and I love the reliability.

Also its been said before and i shall say it again "ITS NOT WHAT YOU RIDE, ITS THE FACT THAT YOU RIDE."

I never cared about racing and I still don't. If you want to ride more than you work on your ATV and just ride for fun go Honda.


P.S.- I am sure most of you will now quote me and start putting me down because thats the way people are nowadays. Putting down others for their opinions. Just ride don't even think about what people say about your ATV what they think doesn't matter what matters is what matters to you.

Yeap Honda offers very little support for their riders. They have many other things tht sell better and such than their ATV's and everyone is waiting for a drastic change not just plastics. I will continue to own a Honda for as long as their is a powersport vehicle in that company. Honda needs to step it up and hopefully they will next year.

[trxwannbe]

Originally posted by klutch
I find it pretty pathetic that you guys are putting down Honda. Is it just to piss people off or to state your opinion? I ride Honda because I like them and I love the reliability.

Also its been said before and i shall say it again "ITS NOT WHAT YOU RIDE, ITS THE FACT THAT YOU RIDE."

I never cared about racing and I still don't. If you want to ride more than you work on your ATV and just ride for fun go Honda.


P.S.- I am sure most of you will now quote me and start putting me down because thats the way people are nowadays. Putting down others for their opinions. Just ride don't even think about what people say about your ATV what they think doesn't matter what matters is what matters to you.


not here to put you down my friend but just thought i'd point out that if you and all the other people like you continue to support the manufacturer that does nothing for out sport you won't have anywhere to ride so you won't be able to use "just shutup and be happy you can ride" as an excuse....personally i felt the most comfortable on the honda but have still decided to go elsewhere for my new machine because the other companies are actually taking us somewhere

[klutch]

Originally posted by trxwannbe
not here to put you down my friend but just thought i'd point out that if you and all the other people like you continue to support the manufacturer that does nothing for out sport you won't have anywhere to ride so you won't be able to use "just shutup and be happy you can ride" as an excuse....personally i felt the most comfortable on the honda but have still decided to go elsewhere for my new machine because the other companies are actually taking us somewhere


Maybe on day i will race and care about sponsor ship and factory support. But for now I dont need factory support...I ride for fun . I will ride a Honda ATV as long as Honda keeps making them. I agree they should step it up, but i truly don't care.

[ALAMX37]

Who dominated this year among a flourish of competitors? Do you think it is going to change next year simply because there will be more brands on the line? It has been a very repetitive thing. And a lot of those riders who swapped from Honda to whatever they rode this year are going back to a Championship caliber machine.
Look at the Pro-Am class, thats the fastest non factory riders available and the class is owned by Honda. Cody Miller isn't the exception he is a Pro rider that rode Pro-Am to recover from injury.

[blholtz]

Originally posted by ALAMX37
Who dominated this year among a flourish of competitors? Do you think it is going to change next year simply because there will be more brands on the line? It has been a very repetitive thing. And a lot of those riders who swapped from Honda to whatever they rode this year are going back to a Championship caliber machine.
Look at the Pro-Am class, thats the fastest non factory riders available and the class is owned by Honda. Cody Miller isn't the exception he is a Pro rider that rode Pro-Am to recover from injury.

Did Honda win the championship or did Rage ATV win the championship? Yes it was a honda machine, but what if Bird had been riding a Suzuki with there factory support and a Rage worked over engine.

And for that matter I guess it wasn't a suzuki that Gust won his championship on. So I think your statement that Honda is the only Championship caliber machine that ever hits the track is BS.

And the pro- am class is currently owned by honda but that won't last for long. The way things are going it won't be long when Honda will have to step -up or step off.

[YFZ450Ridr]

the number one thing i am sick of is people swearing by honda reliability!! two of my buddies with 450rs blew their motor not from abuse but they just went. granted my motor blew last winter but not from mechanical failure. another buddy of mine with a 450r had to get his motor redone too because it kept popping out of gear and his model number matched those which were blowing up also.

i had a z400 and my dad currently has a different one and thier damn nice. starts EVERY time in any weather... i wish the new suzukis werent so wide because they look damn nice..

i know my yfz isnt the most reliable(minor charging probs), but the new ones sure are:D im not dissing honda at all, i love riding 450rs their nice bikes but the bullet proof name honda once had is out the window!!

[ALAMX37]

Not saying it's the only one and the best above all. Simply saying if you are winning 8 out of 10 classes why change. Look at the ATVA class champs, look at the Wpsa class champs. Honda won more classes than everyone else put together (450's only). They have a good thing going is all I am trying to say. I welcome all the new company's to the sport it will only make things better for us the average joe racer.
I however will ride a Honda until I feel as though someone else has produced a better package. Ask TC, Sparks, Rage, Dasa any top builder which motor puts out the biggest ponies. As for the bikes with EFI (open loop is garbage) I am not impressed at all, I don't like a smooth power band.

Honda's do have the greatest reliability ever. Take care of them and they will last forever. My uncle has the same quad he grew up on today and it starts fine and rides fine. His Honda 3 wheeler starts on the 1st or 2nd kick ever time, it still has all the original parts even the spark plug since the 1980's. Nothing was changed and it was ridden for years and still keeps going without any problems. How many other things have you seen running that long with years of abuse and still run storng, not many but you see Honda's that do. Look how many older 250rs there are still today running and racing. My 400ex is like a bullet proof engine. Do regular maintainance and it will last forever. Now once you start with changing enigne parts to go faster your going to lose a little reliability but even then they always run like a champ if they are kept up.

[klutch]

The 450R is said to be the most reliable of the 450s but the Honda's name of bulletproof still stands if you haven't noticed the 450r isn't honda's only atv don't count out the 400ex when it comes to reliability nothing beats the 400ex.

[trxwannbe]

Originally posted by ALAMX37
Who dominated this year among a flourish of competitors? Do you think it is going to change next year simply because there will be more brands on the line? It has been a very repetitive thing. And a lot of those riders who swapped from Honda to whatever they rode this year are going back to a Championship caliber machine.
Look at the Pro-Am class, thats the fastest non factory riders available and the class is owned by Honda. Cody Miller isn't the exception he is a Pro rider that rode Pro-Am to recover from injury.

you my friend need to take a look at some recent history because a few years back a young man by the name of josh creamer raced just the pro class in the first 2 or 3 rounds on a yfz and wasn't putting it together so he decided to run pro-am and dominated. even missing the first couple of races he won the pro am production class and came in second by less than one moto worth of points in pro am unlimited. so keep touting your hondas even though those championships prove nothing other than the fact that a lot of the best riders have been using hondas because thats where there allegiances were. but now its starting to show that the reliability isn't there anymore and people are sick of waiting for support of any kind

[trxwannbe]

Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
Honda's do have the greatest reliability ever. Take care of them and they will last forever. My uncle has the same quad he grew up on today and it starts fine and rides fine. His Honda 3 wheeler starts on the 1st or 2nd kick ever time, it still has all the original parts even the spark plug since the 1980's. Nothing was changed and it was ridden for years and still keeps going without any problems. How many other things have you seen running that long with years of abuse and still run storng, not many but you see Honda's that do. Look how many older 250rs there are still today running and racing. My 400ex is like a bullet proof engine. Do regular maintainance and it will last forever. Now once you start with changing enigne parts to go faster your going to lose a little reliability but even then they always run like a champ if they are kept up.

my family owns a 1986 honda fourtraxx 250 and it still runs like it did brand new and it has been run on less than a quart of oil and in countless other dangerous mechanical situations(damn kids that think they know what they're doing) but that is not what is being discussed, we are talking about right here right now in the 450 racing group the honda is no longer living up to the name they used to. it is one of the more reliable 450s but no more than a yfz or a suzuki are now. and until they show some interest in helping the sport move in a positive direction i will no longer be buying their products.

[LT80]

Originally posted by 54warrior
Great post LT80!!! Even you're smart enough to ride a lil' Suzuki, lol!!!

So Angela's going to be riding a Polaris this year?? Good for her!

You wouldn't happen to know anything about Fox Raceway would ya??? Is it closed now for good?? I've only heard rumors from unreliable sources...figured you'd know?

Look for Angela in the WORCS section on her Polaris. :)

I've not heard much about FOX, I heard new owners, donno what to do or don't want to. Not the best hopes there.

[ALAMX37]

'Did Honda win the championship or did Rage ATV win the championship? Yes it was a honda machine, but what if Bird had been riding a Suzuki with there factory support and a Rage worked over engine. '

Byrd uses Dasa motors. Natalie used a Rage motor to own the Suzuki mafia.
I can't say Suzuki wont get one this year I think it will be very difficult for anyone on any brand to beat Chad Wienen. But I do agree with the main point of this thread Honda's rider support is very low, unless your in the Byrd camp. Look out for Upperman this year back to Honda from Kawi and he will def be a threat. Can't wait for Pell City.

[NJ450rider]

This makes me laugh. Are some of you in denial?? I think so.

Heres the facts:

1.HONDA REALIABILITY IS HORRIBLE!

my 450r is always broken and i have two engines to keep going a whole season! junk!

2. HONDA HAS LIKE 2 or 3 PRO LEVEL RIDERS THIS YEAR.

they had like 9 or 10 last year

3. HONDA DOES NOTHING FOR IMPROVING OUR SPORT.

Last i checked can am and polaris donate money to open places to ride and show support for tracks to allow atvs. Does honda do that nope..

4. THEY OFFER THE LEAST AMOUNT OF RIDER SUPPORT BE IT PRO OR AMATEUR LEVEL.

5. THEY OFFER THE LEAST AMOUNT OF CONTINGENCY MONEY.

6. THEY DONT CARE ABOUT THIS SPORT....

so stop defending them. my whole family rides hondas but thats going to change the next few years.


I want to support the companies that support me. Its not honda.

[infantry317]

I currently and have owned Hondas in the past. Here are my issues:

04 TRX450R comes out, rear linkage geometry problem: hit a kicker and you are done for, you guys know what i'm talking about. STILL NOT CORRECTED from what I've heard. Every serious rider/racer gets a diff linkage immediately.

06,07...08? TRX450R They screw up the front spindle geometry, becomes twitchy as h3ll, Will they correct this?

They still talk reliability but yet those frames simply do not hold up to MX.

Also Natalie had to force their hand to support him according to the "Quad" mag article. wtf

They are riding on their past...IMO I'm not saying they are bad but I think they have some issues to deal with (i know so do other brands).

[my88r]

this also reminds me of the gncc side. honda has nothing. bikes or quads:(

[nickmelll]

i have to say that thier 300 4*4 are bullet proof.... but i had a 300 ex and it was complete junk....broke 2 shocks, the frame countless times, the back half of the motor off, and the chain came loose every 5 min of riding and this was when i was like 14 and not to rough on stuff.......

[ATVMX905]

Originally posted by Nick110
I know that after this year I will be riding something other than Honda. Maybe going green.

thats what my buddy is doing, the kfx is a sweet arse quad.

[spanky101]

hondas are nice bikes but for the price you must put into them to have them race ready compared to other quads power wise and suspension wise you are now out even more money. IMO kawi, can am and ktm are gonna be some of the top bikes to beat. I think with natalie on can am its definatly gonna be difficult to beat him. full factory support, and more time training and riding are always a plus!

[400exrider989]

i think its funny when people say this machine has best reliability or this brand does!
well it doesnt!
the reliability is in your hands not the machine there are all made great all has there flaws but when it comes down to 4 strokes its all a matter of you for reliabilty

i know a guy who has a 88 banshee and 87 250r
yes both 2 strokes and both are only on there first over bore, you know why
because he takes extreme care of them, he rides them as a day routine
he didnt rebuild them becuase they blew up he just decided both need a freshin up on top


so argue away i just thought i would mention

[700bRad]

I have an 07 450r and love it. It does great in the woods, good hill climber, etc.. The only bicker I have about this machine is the stock shocks SUCK retardedly... Even though it runs great im an avid participater in our sport, and I believe in "Supporting the brands that support the sport." I previously owned a 06 Raptor 700r, and 06' YFZ450. I couldnt really let it all hang out due to the raptor's weight and stance, and I ended up cracking the case on my YFZ450. That, a couple broken bolts, stipped out oil drain, skid plates flying off almost decapitating some friends, and a coolent leaking problem made me make a decision to go Honda. Im getting rid of it within the year and will probably go KTM or Polaris :eek: Yes you heard it right here... polaris :eek2: . I have a really bad habit of buying quads (go through 1 or 2 a year) and I REFUSE to by another Honda untill they do something for their riders. WE are the reason THEY are here. Face the facts Honda fans, they owe us. Give us some hope Honda! Fuel injection, aluminum frame, better suspension, revised ergonomics, crisper handling, less bump steer, something, anything to show us their is somebody out there, working... And holy **** im tired of BOLD NEW GRAPHICS!

[DF400ex]

Originally posted by 700bRad
And holy **** im tired of BOLD NEW GRAPHICS!

HAHA exactly!!! It's time for some real improvements on their new quads. You cannot hide faults with graphics. And they definitely do not make it perform better.

I'm happy with my '99 ex. I beat the p!$$ out of it and it begs for more. As with any machine, as long as you stay on top of your maintenance you are fine.

[FHKracingZ]

you guys need to get out more. your all F'ing retarded. Last time i checked its a BUSINESS!! Every company has a different business plan, they have a contigency program this year give them that..

And jack you can say them polaris's are good to the grave but there near on the level of the honda AND you KNOW that but you just have a bitter taste in your mouth about your daughter not getting any help, rightfully so i think..

the Honda TRX motor IS the most reliable motor on the market. Its been proving over and over, your gonna have your cherries on everything. And jack i hardly doubt you have broken a 04/05 stock swinger on the honda. The stocker is by far stronger than my $1,400 Walsh savior which i might say is a piece of crap.

The Honda motor is ALSO the fastest, and can be built to the most power for a pro thats trying to get everything they can out of them and is the fastest for under 1k worth of work.

As for warrentee work your ALL wrong. Lets see what i got this year alone.

A Free Gas tank
A complete crate engine for my rod going out.

Its all about whos batting for you when there dealing with american honda on what your gonna get as far as warrentee work.

[GE4x4]

Originally posted by spanky101
hondas are nice bikes but for the price you must put into them to have them race ready compared to other quads power wise and suspension wise you are now out even more money. IMO kawi, can am and ktm are gonna be some of the top bikes to beat. I think with natalie on can am its definatly gonna be difficult to beat him. full factory support, and more time training and riding are always a plus!


Don't forget Polaris. Look at there support in WORCS, WSPA, ITP Quadcross, and GNCC. The Outlaw will be up for the task.

[440challenger]

Working at a shop which does a few motors a week..you see what holds up and what doesnt.

We do so many top and bottom ends on crf's and trx's , its never a suprise. The yfz's and yzf's are strong motors and are rarely in for valves, lower ends etc. Only had one Ltr motor to do but that was bc the owner did not oil his air filter. kaw/suzks are holding up great. Honda needs to step it up in the reliabilty,also the technology in there machines and most important their support!

[rollie]

alot of people in this thread are being super immature, if honda had the best contigency out there you wouldnt be saying how they arent reliable and how they suck so bad, you guys are just mad because they're not helping anyone out, I agree that they should step in but eventually they will have to, you can say whatever you want about honda's and how there not reliable but mine has been NOTHING but reliable, along with 2 of my buddies

i will continue to ride honda's...unless the new KTM MX version comes out and its reasonably priced and i have the money:D

And if you guys think hondas suck so bad, they why are you riding them?

[440challenger]

we ride them becuase its what we got. Not everyone has the coin to go buy a freshy fresh of choice. I raced dirtbikes for yearss and the contingecy was awesome. Money went right on your honda card after you mailed in your results, it was a great program. but that was back in 2000-02.

And they arent as reliable as other brands. I see it all the time. Wether your are super keen on maintence or not. ( im talking 450r's and crfs.)

[NJ450rider]

And i can back up 440challenger moto x support fixes/ rebuilds more trx450 and crf450 motors than any other brand. at any given time there working on at least 2 to 3 engines. Rarely anything else! And its not because theres more hondas in this area because its about even with all brands.


I still have my 450R because im so in the hole with it i dont have a choice. Im not rich and i cant just go out and buy a new 450 every year. I will be getting a new 450 for next year though. Im just waiting to see what the longterm abuse/reliability is like on all the new 450's. Next year ill be on a can am, polaris or ktm forsure. Maybe even a kfx450r i liked riding one of those more than my honda.

the facts are the facts honda is doing nothing for this sport. so why support them?

Do you people actually ride?

[laeger2fiddyr]

i could care less if honda has a contingency! im gonna ride a honda cuz i think they r the best. everybody has their own oppinions on what brand is the best. it all depends on how u ride/abuse what ur riding. what cracks me up is when i go to nats or wpsa races and c all of u that have these trick quads w/ everything on them and dont take care of them & they look like ***!!! it makes me sick to c people cant wash/take care of them. i have a complete 06 walsh/trx and i race a & +25 and when im done racing i spend more time cleaning and maintaining it then i race it. but to each his own!!!!! but i guess mom and dad will buy u a new one when it breaks:)

[ALAMX37]

Yous guys tickle mes. I have owned several YFZ's, a couple LTR's, and I ride a CRF hybrid. I had more problems with Yamaha and Suzuki, all electrical problems.
My Baldwin CRF motor has almost 60 hours on it without one single issue. Go get whatever you want to ride but at the end of the year remember who told you this
" Honda will dominate this year" Remember I said that so when you get pwned by a Honda rider who doesn't dnf you can tell me I was right. I'm done with this thread.

[ATVMX905]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FHKracingZ
[B]you guys need to get out more. your all F'ing retarded. Last time i checked its a BUSINESS!! Every company has a different business plan, they have a contigency program this year give them that..

And jack you can say them polaris's are good to the grave but there near on the level of the honda AND you KNOW that but you just have a bitter taste in your mouth about your daughter not getting any help, rightfully so i think..

the Honda TRX motor IS the most reliable motor on the market. Its been proving over and over, your gonna have your cherries on everything. And jack i hardly doubt you have broken a 04/05 stock swinger on the honda. The stocker is by far stronger than my $1,400 Walsh savior which i might say is a piece of crap.

The Honda motor is ALSO the fastest, and can be built to the most power for a pro thats trying to get everything they can out of them and is the fastest for under 1k worth of work.

As for warrentee work your ALL wrong. Lets see wha:eek2:

[ATVMX905]

typical honda fan, they will fight to the grave. face the facts dude, they suck compared to the other 450's:huh

[trxwannbe]

i'm not saying hondas reliability is garbage now i'm just saying it is no longer the best out there hands down, they have a lot of competition from the other brands and now and are not stepping up to the plate with support like the other brands are. i see no reason in supporting a company whos ego along with its supporters egos is getting in the way of them seeing that whether they are winning or not its time for honda to step up with some support and give a little back

[jrspawn]

Like otheres have posted, this thread is pretty funny at times:D

Every quad is a peiece of junk when its broke, and its the best when its not. Thats a fact! Some people get lemons, some get cherries.

But back to what lt80 was getting at about hondas lack of support, i agree with him. Its pretty bad the loyal racers they have had and the championships the racers have one with little to no support. Its pretty crazy when mid pack to back of the pack racers on other brands get alot more support than Factory Honda CHAMPION racers. Thats a joke!


Thank you
Justin

[klutch]

Originally posted by ATVMX905
typical honda fan, they will fight to the grave. face the facts dude, they suck compared to the other 450's:huh

Just as you will fight to the grave for your company... Also I known many people who love their 450 over any other they have ridden. It's all about opinion.

[FHKracingZ]

LOL the yamaha guy is talking. ive seen more yamahas puke motors AND more ELECTRONIC problems with yamaha than anything else.

I know for a fact that a factory suzuki rider liked his honda better and he was ALOT faster on it, no names need be said.

[infantry317]

I'm guessing Wimmer but remember that Weinen kept blowing up his engines because the honda frames flexed so much, granted Chad is not easy on equipment.

[klutch]

Originally posted by FHKracingZ
LOL the yamaha guy is talking. ive seen more yamahas puke motors AND more ELECTRONIC problems with yamaha than anything else.

I know for a fact that a factory suzuki rider liked his honda better and he was ALOT faster on it, no names need be said.


Agreed

[Jersey450R]

Originally posted by infantry317
I'm guessing Wimmer but remember that Weinen kept blowing up his engines because the honda frames flexed so much, granted Chad is not easy on equipment.

blowing motors because the frame flexed too much? :huh
haha.

[infantry317]

I heard it from another pro who sponsored him and it was in Quad magazine, it tore the cases apart. Lost the oil :eek2:

[FHKracingZ]

Chad was flexing his frame so much it was twisting the chassis by the motor mounts and breaking a small egg shaped hole out of the case's. Then all the oil goes out and the motor blows, not Rage's fault in reality.

After one month of practice on his suzukis the frame stretches 2 inches in over length.

Chad is beast. He was an AVERAGE 2-3 seconds faster a lap on the hondas at the beginning of this year.

[joedirt]

Contingency for GNCC
http://www.racerpress.com/newsmanager/templates/?a=243&z=16
Suzuki and Yamaha have NOTHING.

[ATVMX905]

Originally posted by klutch
Just as you will fight to the grave for your company... Also I known many people who love their 450 over any other they have ridden. It's all about opinion.

im not fighting for any company, im not brand biased. all im saying is that honda reliability sucks. ive had nothing but problems with mine. plus there technology is so outdated. also, i kinda get sick of bold new graphics after about four years!!:rolleyes:

[trxwannbe]

whoaaaaa screech hold up that post about the contingencies proves nothing. when honda steps up and helps somebody who is working their a** off to get to the level where they can live off the sport thats when i'll be happy. yamaha has factory supported riders in both gncc and mx and its fairly obvious that suzuki does. and before you start bashing me as a honda hater remember that i started out on a 450r and it never broke on me but i was incredibly picky about taking care of it. my yami on the other hand i never really had the time to take care of like i did the honda and that never faild me either. and in a few months i'll let you know how the kawi i'm going to pick up at the end of the week is holding up

[joedirt]

Amateurs work their a** off too. Without them there would be no racing.

[trxwannbe]

right and they deserve support also and i know that most people that are making it somewhere have the money to do it without the help but you have to realize that 96% of all amateurs are never going to go anywhere in the sport. sure they'll get faster but they won't ever be national pro material and the pros are what get the exposure and get more people to open their eyes and give us amateurs places to go and the support to keep doing what we're doing. i don't mean to come across as a d*** either but most amateurs that work their a** of in the sport don't really work at all in the rest of their life. people like those of us on the site aren't as common as you think there are way to many people who use the track as a place to smoke a bowl or get so drunk they can't remember the entire weekend.

[quad2xtreme]

Yamaha didn't step up to the plate for the 2001 Raptor even though I had a full extended warranty. I bought 4 new bikes in 1999, 2 Kodiaks in 2000, and the Raptor in 2001. Since then, I've purchased 3 new 400ex quads and 2 new 450r quads. I might not be on a Honda forever but I will never buy Yamaha again. I am only 43 so Yamaha is definitely going to lose out on this deal in the long run. Some actuary figured wrong...they definitely would have been better off spending $1,000 to make me happy than losing me as a customer forever.

Honda has fixed things on my 450r that I never even had a problem with...new set of a-arms, new starter gear or something, and something to do with the throttle. Yamaha didn't fix anything that went wrong with the Craptor.

[my88r]

Originally posted by quad2xtreme
Yamaha didn't step up to the plate for the 2001 Raptor even though I had a full extended warranty. I bought 4 new bikes in 1999, 2 Kodiaks in 2000, and the Raptor in 2001. Since then, I've purchased 3 new 400ex quads and 2 new 450r quads. I might not be on a Honda forever but I will never buy Yamaha again. I am only 43 so Yamaha is definitely going to lose out on this deal in the long run. Some actuary figured wrong...they definitely would have been better off spending $1,000 to make me happy than losing me as a customer forever.

Honda has fixed things on my 450r that I never even had a problem with...new set of a-arms, new starter gear or something, and something to do with the throttle. Yamaha didn't fix anything that went wrong with the Craptor.

my Kodiak was complete junk. i will never own a Yamaha again. my ttr 125l was complete junk also. another reason why i would never buy one again. the Kodiak i had to get the extended warranty for it. one thing after another went wrong with it.

[Seano300ex]

Originally posted by klutch
Maybe on day i will race and care about sponsor ship and factory support. But for now I dont need factory support...I ride for fun . I will ride a Honda ATV as long as Honda keeps making them. I agree they should step it up, but i truly don't care.
i agree with klutch 110%, how many of all u members bi***in about factory support have ever even raced. i dont see why so many ppl even care about honda not supporting riders because its not like honda supporting riders has anything to do with them or any other person that rides atv's for fun and doesnt race em.:eek2:

[blholtz]

Originally posted by Seano300ex
i agree with klutch 110%, how many of all u members bi***in about factory support have ever even raced. i dont see why so many ppl even care about honda not supporting riders because its not like honda supporting riders has anything to do with them or any other person that rides atv's for fun and doesnt race em.:eek2:

There is more to it than just the support of the people that race, you dimwit, its about the supporting of the whole sprot in general.

If they are not going to support those that put there quads out there in the public view, their sure as heck are not going to help in any other areas of the sport. (eg. helping to keep riding areas open, sponsoring any type of event) Do you think that they are doing anything to help expand the sport? I think not.

You are right alot of us race and ride for fun, but it has to do with the entire package of not really caring about the sport that you claim to love and enjoy.

[exrider49]

hmm i never heard of any other company helping riding areas stay open and everyone has their opinions i think it comes down to what your most comfortable on not what company is having a semi pull up to a race..and its not like an amature rider can pull up to team kawasaki or team suzuki trailer at a national and have them fix their quad if it has a problem and what are suzuki and kawasaki doing for the weekend warrior?? i dont see what they are doing for an amature racer..and yeah the zuki ltr comes race ready but if your a serious racer you are gonna change the a-arms and shocks and axle and ktm's prices on their quads are ridiculous ..

[NJ450rider]

3. HONDA DOES NOTHING FOR IMPROVING OUR SPORT.

Last i checked can am and polaris donate money to open places to ride and show support for tracks to allow atvs. Does honda do that nope..


There you go and know you know.......


Buying a KTM is a wise investement over most 450 quads. Buy a honda and add up the parts the ktm has stock. plus add the stuff you need on each to go xc or mx racing. Cheaper to buy the KTM.

[my88r]

Originally posted by NJ450rider


Buying a KTM is a wise investement over most 450 quads. Buy a honda and add up the parts the ktm has stock. plus add the stuff you need on each to go xc or mx racing. Cheaper to buy the KTM.

well said.:macho

[CRich[814]]

i didn't read any of the thread. but honda's 450 needs...

aluminum frame.
reverse.
a better hot start setup.
more kickers.
wider?

[exrider49]

thanks for the info i didnt hear anything about that but the only bad thing about the ktm is the price tag not everyone can afford

[NJ450rider]

Only the initial investment is more. the longterm investment will be less.

[RideRed84]

I for one don't support honda as a company but I love their quads. I have had honda's since I was 4 and they last forever. I will probably never buy a brand new quad so when I buy a used 450R it won't benefit honda at all. I agree with you guys and hope honda wakes up and supports a factory team, but I believe that they don't have to.

[ALAMX37]

Crich have you ever rode an aluminum frame? Reverse is worthless on a MX track.
And any serious racer is going to replace the suspension anyway. So why would they improve those things.

[TheBlasterMan]

honda dosnt have to support the people who race their vehicles. Their vehicles support the racers enough............

[hondaracer305]

i liked my honda, but im enjoyin my new DS way more, GO CANAM!:macho

[trxwannbe]

Originally posted by TheBlasterMan
honda dosnt have to support the people who race their vehicles. Their vehicles support the racers enough............

well i'm glad to see that everybody likes to read the thread and make a nice educated post....in case you haven't noticed this thread is also about how while hondas durability is still good it is not longer the top of the list and i'm not going to name one as the best because i don't think there is one right now but honda no longer just owns that title by printing there name on a graphics kit and throwing it on a machine

[klutch]

Originally posted by trxwannbe
well i'm glad to see that everybody likes to read the thread and make a nice educated post....in case you haven't noticed this thread is also about how while hondas durability is still good it is not longer the top of the list and i'm not going to name one as the best because i don't think there is one right now but honda no longer just owns that title by printing there name on a graphics kit and throwing it on a machine

The reliability name still stands. You show me a bike that outlasts a 400EX motor with the usual maintnence then i might agree with you but for now... you are wrong in my book.

[GE4x4]

Originally posted by klutch
The reliability name still stands. You show me a bike that outlasts a 400EX motor with the usual maintnence then i might agree with you but for now... you are wrong in my book.

I think he was talking about Honda's new line up with more of the high tech options. The 400 ex is far from new. Yes it is solid, but is a basic platform compared to the race quads of today.

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by klutch
The reliability name still stands. You show me a bike that outlasts a 400EX motor with the usual maintnence then i might agree with you but for now... you are wrong in my book.

There was once a time that you could make such bold, generalized statements. But not any more. The 400EX is reliable, yes, no question. You're talking about one model, and using it as a representative of the entire brand name.

Could you also say "Yamahas have poor ergonomics/handling"? That's true of the banshee, and the too-tall Raptors, but certainly not the YFZ. That blanket statement doesn't apply anymore.


Really, I think the only stereotype that still applies is "Polaris quads are heavy"...

[bwamos]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
Really, I think the only stereotype that still applies is "Polaris quads are heavy"...

And that's not really even 100% correct either. The Outlaw 450MX (solid axle) weighs in at 365lbs. The TRX450ER weighs in a 363 pounds.. a whopping 2 pounds lighter.

[popo]

Originally posted by joedirt
Contingency for GNCC

Suzuki and Yamaha have NOTHING.

Bashing

[klutch]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
There was once a time that you could make such bold, generalized statements. But not any more. The 400EX is reliable, yes, no question. You're talking about one model, and using it as a representative of the entire brand name.

Could you also say "Yamahas have poor ergonomics/handling"? That's true of the banshee, and the too-tall Raptors, but certainly not the YFZ. That blanket statement doesn't apply anymore.


Really, I think the only stereotype that still applies is "Polaris quads are heavy"...

There are countless other Hondas i can go by i am just saying the main one... there are more than just 3 Hondas just making sure you know... and not just the 400ex is bulletproof, there are many more in the utilities that are bulletproof, i have never had a problem on my other 300ex my dad got it new in 1994 put it through hell, still all stock and not one problem with it.

[joedirt]

Originally posted by popo
Bashing

GO HOME. We don't want your kind around here.:macho

[SRH]

Originally posted by ALAMX37
Not saying it's the only one and the best above all. Simply saying if you are winning 8 out of 10 classes why change. Look at the ATVA class champs, look at the Wpsa class champs. Honda won more classes than everyone else put together (450's only). They have a good thing going is all I am trying to say. I welcome all the new company's to the sport it will only make things better for us the average joe racer.
I however will ride a Honda until I feel as though someone else has produced a better package. Ask TC, Sparks, Rage, Dasa any top builder which motor puts out the biggest ponies. As for the bikes with EFI (open loop is garbage) I am not impressed at all, I don't like a smooth power band.


no one is asking them to change there quad, this whole thread is about honda not caring about the riders who put there quad on the podium and then honda using there success to make more money that isnt going back into the sport or to support the rider there using as leverage for sales

i got a 400ex i think it has to be one of the best all around quads ever made, they make a good product, but people are turning there back on honda because of lack of support, and yes built hondas put out big hp, but now the can am, polaris/ktm can put out big numbers too,

dont discredit natalie or anyone else by saying honda won the championship, natalie won it, this year the championships will be between a can am , a suzuki or a kawi

personally i think the honda 450s are junk and would be one of my last choices for a 450

[NJ450rider]

SRH youve hit the nail on the head. That is EXACTLY what this whole thread is about. Busting your *** and riding hard. Making a company look great that does nothing for you in return.


Damn ALAMX37 the lack of intelligence is mind blowing. Where did you get your education from? Its kind of obvious you know nothing about how fuel injection works in any kind of machine. Do you even know what "closed loop" and "open loop" means to EFI systems? And there is nothing at all wrong with smooth power. The smoother the power delivery of anything the better it is to control. Granted the EFI on atvs and now dirtbikes is on the primitive side not having any o2 sensors(except for yosh/suzuki team they tune with o2 sensors in the headpipe) and i dont think they have an AIT sensor either.(air intake temp) EFI systems will only get better from here to the point where atvs and dirtbikes will be able to tune on the fly just like cars and trucks.

And for the record 2007 is the end of hondas dominance on the mx track. Besides the fact most riders at the pro level left for other companies that actually care about there riders and this sport. All the new 450 machines have left honda in the dust. There more powerful, better handling, more technologicly advanced than the 450r. tough to swallow but its the truth.

[ALAMX37]

I am sorry you feel that way, but I am probably educated far beyond anything you will achieve in your lifetime. I am stating my opinion as do you. If I can respect your opinion then why must you insult me and not simply brush it off your shoulder.
IMO Honda will dominate this sport for many more years. As far as I see if they are winning they will not make any attempt to further their rider support. When someone else begins to dominate then maybe we will see more of an effort from red.

[trxwannbe]

fell free to disrespect my opinion all ya want to because your thoughts mean nothing to me. present your opinion in a respectable manner and while taking the previously stated opinions into consideration then i might just pay attention to what you have to say.

[infantry317]

(In dumb redneck tone) Oh yeah!!! Chevy is better than Ford!!! :devil:

That's kinda what this turned into :D

[SRH]

Originally posted by ALAMX37
I am sorry you feel that way, but I am probably educated far beyond anything you will achieve in your lifetime. I am stating my opinion as do you. If I can respect your opinion then why must you insult me and not simply brush it off your shoulder.
IMO Honda will dominate this sport for many more years. As far as I see if they are winning they will not make any attempt to further their rider support. When someone else begins to dominate then maybe we will see more of an effort from red.


good news, honda will have a factory team for 09


lol, i think its going to be nothing but yellow and green up front

[my88r]

CAN WE ALL JUST STOP THE BICKERING.:macho

[NJ450rider]

Yeah considering there is no one riding red this year. there gonna have to try and fix this bad taste theyve left in everyones mouth. at least the people that realize theyve turned there backs on everyone who thinks so highly of them. once again i will say it....


Why support a company who doesnt support you or your sport?.........

[klutch]

Thats why i dont support any one i ride Honda because i like the bikes i truly don't care what they think. I don't ride Suzuki because i don't like the ltr or the z400, i dont ride kawi, because i like honda more. the point is it doesn't matter. who cares who supports what or who.... you aren't pro or pro am so it shouldn't matter.

now you can go and insult my opinion as a typical idiot would. but i am done this topic was stupid and pointless.

[joedirt]

Originally posted by NJ450rider



Why support a company who doesnt support you or your sport?.........
Honda does with the contingency.
Cash on a debit card that you can spend on anything you want.

[flyin#5]

haha... i had to make a comment on the efi thing.

ALA-

how does an open loop system suck? streetbikes have used them and your going to tell me that they suck also?

all a closed loop system does is help correct air fuel mixtures as the engine wears or if there is a mechanical problem. Otherwise nothing is different... most race bikes/quads dont need the extra bs with a closed loop. they are competition bikes that do not wear and get the same miles as vehicles.

and just for the record im going to guess your not as smart as you think you are, otherwise i would've seen some words to back up your "open loop sucks" theory.


As for this thread... ride who supports what you do. And if you dont race its still the same, companies that are into the racing scene help keep things alive and inovative, not to mention it shows they give a damn about there customers.

[ALAMX37]

All I know about EFI is this more electrical crap to deal with. With open loop you have to adjust and hope you get it right with every mod you make. I owned a LTR for about a month and had more problems with the EFI than the bike was worth all together. A closed loop system would be great IMO, but I prefer the pull you get from a carbed motor.

[NJ450rider]

nice to see someone else with the right state of mind. Flyin#5 understands the big picture as well.


And for the record also all cars and trucks are in a "closed loop" state until an engine warms up to operating temp. Once the computer reads from the AIT/or MA and o2 sensors that everything is good it will switch into an "open loop" state where it will adjust fuel, spark, and timing accordingly.


Even in my srt4 it wont boost over 8 to 10 psi till the car warms up and switches into "open loop". The computer controls the correct amount of fuel and timing till the conditions are optimal for full boost being 13 to 15psi depending on what all the sensors tell the computer.

I hope someday atvs and dirtbikes become "open loop" controled systems where they do all the work. Having the machine control fuel, spark and timing would be sweet. All youd have to do is worry about riding.

[popo]

Originally posted by joedirt
Honda does with the contingency.
Cash on a debit card that you can spend on anything you want.

Like 2005 spindles for your 06,07 & 08 trx450. :macho

[joedirt]

:blah:

[700bRad]

theres nothing like the crisp feel of a fuel injected machine. Also the reliance, and knowing that your bike will turn it on for you whenever you need it. What I mean by that is no cutting out, or choking. Fuel Injected bikes are also very hard to stall..

[Caseys 300ex]

I dont get why everybody dogs honda because they have bad race support. Not everyone races. Its stupid how a motor company is judged on an aspect that isnt shared by all riders. Most people just ride for fun. People like me will buy the best quad for my use. I have a honda and love honda but doesnt mean i wouldnt own another brand.

We should just stop our haten and just ride and have fun. Who cares if you ride an LT 80 or a Can- AM 800.

[416exfreak]

Originally posted by Caseys 300ex
I dont get why everybody dogs honda because they have bad race support. Not everyone races. Its stupid how a motor company is judged on an aspect that isnt shared by all riders. Most people just ride for fun. People like me will buy the best quad for my use. I have a honda and love honda but doesnt mean i wouldnt own another brand.

We should just stop our haten and just ride and have fun. Who cares if you ride an LT 80 or a Can- AM 800.

Some people just cant stand going through life without letting everyone else know how much better thier chit is than everyone elses.

I agree with you. I just like to ride and race and have fun.

But Hondas support sucks.:ermm:

[JRP]

Well me being a racer and trying to make a carrer out of this one day, it sucks knowing hondas support sucks. Id love to be able to go from now till I am pro, to be on a honda. I love my honda, but knowing theres no support, it makes me want to switch to a company that has support. One of my friends was in the lead in the B class in the WPSA's till an accident happened to him, and now he got a deal with kawi. Not a full ride or anything, but a big discount on bikes n parts, now that shows something about a company. Also with my friend cole. He had a few good finishes last year in the nats, and won d13 in youth prod. and this year, he got a deal with can-am. Once again not a full ride, but atleast hes being recognized and being helped out!

[416exfreak]

Jordan, as much of a future as you have in MX, you need to switch quads.

Ride something that has a supposrting company behind it so your name can get out there. Kawi's are nice quads. I rode a few of them. God knows I'd love to have one, but im happy with my 400ex.:D

[JRP]

Originally posted by 416exfreak
Jordan, as much of a future as you have in MX, you need to switch quads.

Ride something that has a supposrting company behind it so your name can get out there. Kawi's are nice quads. I rode a few of them. God knows I'd love to have one, but im happy with my 400ex.:D

thanks man, and i know I need to switch, becasue I know it will help me in the long run, but to much $$ in this quad alone. The bad thing is i need a practice quad, and Id hate to go out and buy a stock 450r, then next year have to sell both of them and get another brand, lol. Im in a delima right now on what to do. My really good friend eddie edmondson just got a kawi, and he loves it. Hes real fast on it to, hed like a little more power though(he had john natalies 06 race bike):devil:

[coryatver]

I believe honda will come back strong in racing, probley with there next version of the 450r, and the people who stuck it out with the 450r will be rewarded with support.

[yfzrider45]

I ride yamaha.....:p

[mephyst]

A couple of you guys saying that you work in the shop and say that Honda's reliability is crap... on TRX's and CRF's. You also forgot to realize that it may also be because Honda sells WAY more 450s (at least crf's, that I know for sure) than any other manufacturer. Hmm... something to think about.

I love my brand new 06' crf450r. Go on thumper talk... there are people with well over 200 hours on their original motor. What else could you ask for out of a RACE bike? Change your oil/filter frequently and ride the piss out of it...

I do not agree with Honda's lack of support... but I will defend their reliability. I also have an 04' TRX (one of the first ones to reach the dealership) and I have NEVER had a problem with it. Stock motor... piped/filter/jetting and frequent oil changes. The bike still runs as good as ever. Oh, and I forgot to mention... VALVES IN SPEC on all of my Honda's.

[ti2ibal1]

plus there technology is so outdated. also, i kinda get sick of bold new graphics after about four years!!:rolleyes:

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

I bought a 400ex in '99 and sold it to a friend in '01. He still owns it and whoops the piss out of it every weekend. It is still stock and runs like a raped ape.

I can't comment on the 450 or the racing, as I don't own one and don't race. What I can comment on, is all the people dogging Honda's reliability. If you maintain something, and keep up on service, it will last you a very long time.

The bullet-proofness (if that's a word) of the 400ex is the main reason I just bought another one. I want something that is going to last me for a long time.

P.S. I drive a Honda, also. :macho

[trxwannbe]

ok one last time because apparently it still needs to be brought to everyones attention-THIS IS NOT ABOUT 400s,300s,250ex's, or your utility quad we are talking about the reliability of the 450 as a race bike in any series and how honda is not stepping up to the plate with support like the other manufacturers are.

[treake]

Doesn't the guy that started this thread ride a 250r?

[NJ450rider]

NO its about his daughter racing on a honda and switching to polaris because honda reliability/factory support is crap.

Oh yeah his daughter is Angela Atwell or Butler i forget! She will be factory polaris for 2008.

[LT80]

Well to clarify:::
It's Butler (formerly Moore). LOL
She switched cuz of oppertunity. And it seems I could have been mistaken in the Go Polaris statement.
Her TRX was very dependable. Mostly cuz the motor is constantly freshened up (like all top contenders motors) and new modified tranny gears to eliminate the 3rd gear problem the TRX's have. New modified gears every 3rd race if I remember correct.

Who knows, she may be riding a red wing again.

And I love my 250R. I'll turn 50 in 2 weeks. I think I'm old enough to go to a 4 stroke now. BTW, It'll be a KTM or the Can-am. :D

Now make sure all you go buy t6he ATV Sport mag. Angela has a full page pic on a kawasaki. Plus a mighty fine write up. :)

[exrider49]

i dont know why everyone keeps on bashing about honda and their support and EFI..i think the 09 450r will have EFI because their new 700xx or what ever it is called has EFI..and as for support yeah it does matter but no company is supporting the weekend warrior terrorizing the neighbor hood or ripping through their own trails in their back yards..and i think people should choose their quads on looks and comfort on the quad if your not serious into racing...And another thing is in the latest dirtwheels they say hondas looks our outdated...well the yamaha has not changed one thing since they came out and honda has changed somewhat but all the other 450 quads look ugly as chit IMO and dirtwheels always rags on honda for no EFI but never about the yamaha, and where is yamahas support i dont hear anything about yamaha or see their factory race support

[ATVMX905]

i agree with you on that 49. none of the other 450's changed their look at all. i think the 450r looks way better than the ltr or the can am, and its right up there with the yfz. i guess i was a little harsh on my earlier posts. honda is not falling behind really if i thought about it. there are just a few things they need to go over or address. ive always loved honda but they do need to update just a lil bit.:)

[exrider49]

yeah finally someone agrees with me, yamaha has not changed, and no support that i know of and yamaha doesnt even have more than a handfull of pro riders

[NJ450rider]

Where have you been? Yamaha has more full factory riders than honda does. Honda has none. And dirt wheels is paid by yamaha so why would they talk crap about them? These are well known facts.


And polaris and can am promote recreational riding as much as they do organized racing. Hell even suzuki and kawi do as well.

This has more to do than racing support. This is about the sport of atv riding as a whole. Obviously people havent read this whole thread.

Either way when it comes to atv riding/racing honda is last on the list when it comes to giving a crap about it.

[LT80]

Yamaha::
GNCC= Ballance and Cecco.
MX= the Miller boys, Spader, and Brown.
Those are some that just stuck out in my mind.
They are also updating the YFZ for this year.
And,Yam made the only stock swingarm that can hold up to pro racing.
I'm no yam fan but they do more than some.

[treake]

What is your definition of full factory support? The last time I checked, there is no Yamaha factory rig at the MX races and I don't follow GNCC much but I don't think they have a factory rig either. If your definition of factory support is getting a paycheck and bikes, then there are Honda factory support riders which is about the same as Yamaha.

[LT80]

I see your point.
My bad. :)

[NJ450rider]

FYI pat brown has a yamaha rig.

[treake]

Pat Brown does not have a factory rig. If I remember correctly, that is his own rig. As far as support, I believe Honda and Yamaha are about the same. You will receive a pay check and bikes but you have to use your own rig to get to and from the races.

[NJ450rider]

Yamaha is slightly ahead. at least yamaha has a press day with all of there factory pro riders. Honda doesnt do that. Cause honda has no factory pro atv riders.

[exrider49]

umm what about joe byrd? last i checked he is still with honda and won the last 2 championships(i think) and i heard that rumor about yami paying dirtwheels but i didnt want to bring it up to start another arguement, and doesnt KTM play a big part if GNCC racing? and yamaha has made a good swinger but they have not made 1 change since it came out that is noticeable like a cosmetic change or EFI, i think for 2009 honda and yami should have EFI 450 quads

[treake]

I'll give Yamaha that. They do have press day when they get all their riders together. That is pretty cool. I don't know if everyone should be in a big hurry for fuel injection. That increases the number of things that could go wrong. KTM didn't go with fuel injection, so they must know something.

[NJ450rider]

Why would you worry about EFI? Suzuki and Honda are not strangers to it at all. They make more than just atvs and inlcuding automobiles. If anything youd think that the best EFI machine would be a honda with all of there automotive skills. They are more than in the know on making a flawless EFI system. Honda has been testing an EFI system on the CRF450 dirtbike for at least 2 or 3 years in japan. Ive been told the bike just straight rips in stock form.

One of my best examples is someone i know has an 06 ltr450. Hes doesnt take care of it at all. I think hes only changed the oil 3 times since hes owned it. And hes never done any of the other filters ever. It still runs flawless to this day everytime.

There is nothing at all wrong with EFI.