250r vs 450's

[custom R]

I went to an Ice racing event in st charles mo this weekend and there were 2 250r's in the event and was proud to see how well the did against some heavily modded 450's one guy won every race he was in but the final race where he finished in second and he would have won that but he got tangled up a little in the first turn and the other one would have done alot better if the guy knew how to ride but he kept spinning out in the corners but pulled the hole shot pretty easily in all three races

It was great to see those 250's racing and winning I was telling the guy next to me about mine before the raceing started and he was saying there was no way that an old 250 can keep up with a 450 but he didnt say much after the old 250 keep smoking the 450's

[312R1]

LOL...Long live the KING!!!

[CorvetteZ06]

did you snap any pics?

[MossboysRacing]

I was the guy on the red 250r (John... see profil sig) I kept spinning out because i keep my bike set up for XC racing(46inches) as where most everyone else there was at the AMA legal 50 inches. Im not an ice racer by any means, i just raced because Donelson Cycles sponors me for XC and sponsored this race also. I have the complete wrong set up for ice racing, this was just a one time deal so i didnt put any $$ into it, it was just for fun. To help the handling i pulled my middle spring out of my triple rate front shocks and used a tie-down strap from my grab bar to the skid plate to lower the front and rear 4 inches. I was also in the amature class, but they dont tell you that the amatures race the pro's in the same heats. The black 250r is a ESR 310 with sway bar etc. and the guy's nickname is Hippy. he races flat track most of the year and does this series also. The guy that won on a white YFZ also is a pro TT racer in some state out east. The funny part is i had good hole shots and my R motor isnt really modded out that much (profile sig). It was just frusterating because most of the other racers handled the turns way better because of their set up. My first heat i led the first 2 laps, but they are faster in the corners. Ill try and get some pics up. They wouldnt allow any flash photographey, because they said it would make us crash. They are so full of crap. I have pics from back inthe pits though. OH well it was fun.

[custom R]

Yeah I could tell your bike was'nt set up for it I should have said that in my post you did good on the holeshots

Hey what was the deal with the kid on the little green quad he was flyin on that little thing

Where do you race xc at I've been wanting to run a few races but I havent been able to find any info on up coming races in missouri

[C-LEIGH RACING]

The guy on the YFZ that won, was he an older white headed man ??
The little green bike, was the kids name Lake Cuba ??
Neil

[atvmxr]

from what I have seen the 250 and 450 are about even, and the faster comes down to rider skill. and most riding the 250 have been riding longer... :macho

good job on the races

[MossboysRacing]

The other problem i had at the race was the front tires i borrowed were on 4-1 wheels on stock a arms. So it was narrower in front that Stock!!

I have raced in the Missouri Hare Scrambles for the last 6 years but they voted The ATV's out of their series this year. It was a huge load of crap. But some friends we race with started a XC series for ATV's only called the Ozark Cross Country. THe first race is this sat. here is the link http://www.oxcracing.com/

The guy on the YFZ's name is Rich Schoeberl. His son was the little kid on Kawazaki. Those races with the little kid and a couple of other people were just for fun. THe guy that was on the black banshee was supposed to race with us but the promoter screwed up, thats why that had a "race" before intermission

[iamjasyn]

Hi guys,
A similar topic came up in a different board that had some people discussing the never ending rage between 2stroke and 4stroke fans. By the way, just to be clear, I don't have any problem with people liking their 450's or any other 4stroke. I've owned a couple 4strokes myself even, to include my reliable Honda car - which I love! My biggest peeve however is the "outdated technology" perspective. That I personally really have no respect for because in my opinion ignorance and banner following is dangerous to everyone, particularly to those who think and study. The technology objective is a more quantifiable perspective that spreads across a broader arena than just offroad vehicles, and across more minds than off roaders.

jason - all250r

**

I've been in several discussions that resemble that one... If we can just throw out the displacement rules to shoe horn a politically correct engine into the racing circuit, then of course it's faster. I get Andy's point - per actual burn cycle, they are on equal ground and therefore since the 4stoke doesn't have the inefficiency problems its a better platform. My response would have been, it doesn't matter that that the majority of hte single combustion cycles are more efficient in teh 4t because when looking at the platform as a whole, the part htat matters is the smaller engine is making more power with a more simple design. 4strokers can hem and haw all the want about how great and efficient of power makers those motors are but the reality is power-wise 2strokes do it better. Stack some more cc's on but that doesn't make it a better racing motor - it just makes it bigger, which is not a feat of technology.

The last thing I like to bring up is the reliability issue. Ok (loosely speaking) a 450 today is the same technology as the Ferrari in the 60's - high compression and a short stroke. It's not new, great technology - at all. The "outdated" catch phrase makes me cringe. Legislation was the catalyst for edging 2strokes out, not technology. DVD's replaced the VHS not because the VHS was smaller, cheaper and easier to manufacture.

Back to my point, engine makers have been making high hp, unreliable 4strokes for many, many years. I don't want valves and the rest of the "efficient" parts. Efficiency to me and efficiency to the money makers are two different things. I don't care about wasted hydrocarbons. I care about efficient, cheap mechanical operation. Thanks for the offer though to line your pockets with cam and valve upgrades, but no thanks. The Dirt Wheels mag and its advertising money made great camp fire kindling.

By the way, send this link to Andy and ask him to scroll down to the Motorcycles and then the Power Equipment sections and then ask him if he believes Honda is making 4strokes because of their superiority in technological advanced power making capacity.
world.honda.com (http://world.honda.com/environment/2006report/04010000.html)

This is the part 4strokers don't attempt to reconcile when I ask them to read that article. It's as if the flock of sheep is more correct than the articles circulated outside of the sheeps' usual reading material: "These simply structured 2-stroke engines had been adopted mainly in small motorcycles because of their superior output." That is from Honda themselves, so I don't know how else to show people that the new "F" appendage to model names are a marketing phenomenon, not an engineering one.

[iamjasyn]

Albert Einstein:
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.

[iamjasyn]

Adolph Hitler:
By the skillful and sustained use of propaganda, one can make a people see even heaven as hell or an extremely wretched life as paradise.

[atvmxr]

wow! :eek2: hitler AND einstein quotes.... kinda on both sides of the fence arent we?

:devil:

[iamjasyn]

lol ya einstein didn't like hitler very much. Hitler does have some good quotes tho. :devil:

[iamjasyn]

Check this out:
2t DI vs 4t outboards (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viWhxvo6DLk)

Amazingly if you read some of the comments, it's as if they didn't understand parts of that very simple presentation.

So this reminds me of another Hitler quote :D
All propaganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach.

Basically don't try to make a reasonable argument by explaining technology to a moron.

Which reminds me of another quote:
It is always more difficult to fight against faith than against knowledge.

Alright. I hope I didn't offend too many people. :devil:
Then again, if you're offended you're probably frustrating a lot of people.

[C-LEIGH RACING]

Originally posted by iamjasyn
Adolph Hitler:
By the skillful and sustained use of propaganda, one can make a people see even heaven as hell or an extremely wretched life as paradise.

After all that Hitler did with the Holocaust, killing all those Jewish people, Hitler was a born Jew himself.
Neil

[450racers.com]

I have been a die hard 2 stroke fan for years. I rebuilt all my own engines. I finally gave in last summer and bought my first 4 stroke. Right now I am in the middle of my first rebuild on it and all I can say is....ewwwwww

Re-ring a 2stroke: Pull carb, pull pipe, remove cylinder (with head and reeds still attached), replace rings, reinstall parts.

Re-ring a 4 stroke: Oh the horror!

[timmersam]

Although the fourstrokes look alot more comlicated on the inside, its not as difficult as it seems, just make sure to get that damn chain on right...

[C-LEIGH RACING]

Originally posted by timmersam
Although the fourstrokes look alot more comlicated on the inside, its not as difficult as it seems, just make sure to get that damn chain on right...


Put one of each side by side that needs re-ringing & see which one gets finished first. :cool:
Neil

[timmersam]

Oh there is no doubt in my mind 2 stroke is faster, im just saying fourstroke motors are decieving.

[C-LEIGH RACING]

Originally posted by timmersam
Oh there is no doubt in my mind 2 stroke is faster, im just saying fourstroke motors are decieving.

I know your right.
That last word in your reply, decieving, now thats a BIG word when your talking 4 strokes & means a whole bunch of different things.
Poor ol customer though, dont know what they have done till its to late.
:eek: When did those holes come in my pockets :(
Neil

[450racers.com]

Originally posted by C-LEIGH RACING
I know your right.
That last word in your reply, decieving, now thats a BIG word when your talking 4 strokes & means a whole bunch of different things.
Poor ol customer though, dont know what they have done till its to late.
:eek: When did those holes come in my pockets :(
Neil

LOL!!!

Remember when they were preaching how much cheaper the production quads were going to make the sport???


ROFLMAO!!!!

[timmersam]

Have you seen kevina2017's motor in the Hybrid forum? You wanna talk about holes in you pocket, that pretty much takes the shirt off your back:eek2:

[450racers.com]

Originally posted by timmersam
Have you seen kevina2017's motor in the Hybrid forum? You wanna talk about holes in you pocket, that pretty much takes the shirt off your back:eek2:

Yeah that whole thread from start to finish, scared me...