help with engine PICTURES

[adam833]

I have a 87 trx250r. I bought it a few months ago, had maybe 45 minutes on it and the engine blew big time, crank piston etc... Just got the bike back today after it being in the shop for 2 months, the whole engine was rebuilt, new oem crank, piston rings bearings etc the works. Also brand new 38mm a/s carb. It has been jetted etc by the shop. I rode it around for a few minutes and it fouled the plug. Then changed the plug rode it around a little and shut it off. Went to start it 10 minutes later the kickstarter was too hard to start, way too much kickback so I couldnt even get a good kick. I figured the plug fouled again so I put in a new plug. Now when I tried to start it it was so hard I had to stop. I have on heavy duty work boots and I am a big guy 250lbs and I Know how to kick start a bike since I have been riding 2 strokes for 20 yrs. I have a 2000 cr250 that has a real hard kick but this is so bad that it was hurting my foot in the boots and all. Has a ton of kickback. It was too painful to do it so i gave up for now. Anyway, these are EXACTLY the same problems I had with it before the engine went. I fouled about 8 plugs over a period of about 45 minutes over the course of a few days. It was also very hard to kick at certain times. It fouled constantly. The shop drained the tank and put in a mix of race gas and regular gas 32:1 h1-r. when they gave me the bike so its not a bad fuel mixture. When I picked up the bike today they gave me the following info, the the engine is at 180 compression and they said I do NOT need to run race gas and pump gas should be fine. I believe they said it was jetted at 178/50/1.5..
One thing they did say is when I brought my bike in when the engine blew, they looked in the tank and it llooked like I had NO oil in the gas tank. THe tank was full too! Now I only filled the tank up once and I used the correct measurement of h1-r as well and checked the bottle since it was a brand new bottle of oil and it was missing the correct amount. I was told to run 40:1. then and the correct amount was missing for 2 gallons which I mixed. Anyway, what can be wrong with this bike? Why does it run exactly the same rebuilt as it did when I 1st got it a few months ago? Why the super hard kick thats impossible to kick right now? My boots are super thick soles..I have owned this bike for about 4 months and have not logged more than 50 minutes in TOTAL on it. Also I have fouled more plugs on this bike then in 20 yrs on all my other bikes
help me :)

Here are pictures of the last plug. It was new this morning.
<img src="http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/ebargaincell/plug_001.jpg" width="447 height="422">
<img src="http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/ebargaincell/plug2.jpg" width="447 height="422">
<img src="http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/ebargaincell/plug3.jpg" width="447 height="422">

[Aceman]

I'm no expert but I'll mention a few things:

First thing I'd check is your throttle cable. I'd pull the boot of the back of the carb and make sure the slide is closing all the way. Make sure the cable isn't kinked, binding, etc. Look for possible air leaks. If all that checks out I'd compression test it since it's kicking over so hard. FYI, the only time mine kicks back is when the pilot is lean. So I'd try bumping the pilot up to a 52, 1 turn out on the air screw.

Another thing, maybe a sheared flywheel key is advancing the timing??

[C-LEIGH RACING]

If its only 180 compression, then realy it shouldnt be that hard to kick over.
When you say hard to kick, is it hard to kick through the whole rotation of the crank or kinda free then hard after the ports are closed.
Wouldnt hurt to do another compression test just to see for yourself what its building up to.

That pic of the plug realy dont look that bad to me, you should see the ones that comes out of my daughters R.
Neil

[adam833]

When you say hard to kick, is it hard to kick through the whole rotation of the crank or kinda free then hard after the ports are closed.

ok, I will try and explain it better. NORMALLY The kick start is not hard to kick ,but at times in the past before my engine blew it would build up alot of compression out of nowhere and be impossible to kick, its not jammed either. It just all of a sudden has a ton of compression if that makes any sense. Earlier today when I started it, it started fine, took like 2 kicks but in the afternoon it had so much compression and kickback that it was impossible for me to start so I gave up. Again, I am not a small guy, I am 250lbs. Also its not that I am kicking it over and over and its not turning over. Its that I cannot even get ONE Kick to go through fully cause it has so much compression its kicking back at me.

[ib2strokin]

i may be totally wrong but to me it sounds like after you rode and came back to kick it, it was flooded. have you checked the float on your carb? is your slide going all the way down. with fouled plugs and ALOT of "kicking back" it sounds flooded. just a thought

[adam833]

I wonder if you are right. I will check that. If you are correct and flooding does cause it to kick harder it sounds like that could be the problem. If I remember correctly whenever I have probs kicking it, its always after I have had it started, I do not think it has ever been that way when its the 1st kick of the day...Maybe somehow its getting too much gas. Now that I think about it I think also that it gets harder to kick after it fouls the plug and I throw in a fresh one right away. Maybe as its fouling and bucking its flooding as well since I am usually giving it gas as it fouls. The carb is brand spankin new as well as the throttle cable and doesnt look like there is any kinks etc.
thanks for the help everyone..

[86 Quad R]

i too am of the opinion that you may have a flooding issue thats causing the problem.

you'll need to remove the carb and inspect it carefully for possible trash or improper float level setting.

once you've addressed this you should dial it in and get the jetting set. it would be a good idea to re check the compression aswell.

are you running an in line fuel filter

[EXtreme-]

he's got a brand new jetted a/s from ESR, so I doubt it's a flooding issue. Besides, the fuel would be pouring all over the floor via the overflow and never rise high enough to reach thru the reeds and into the cylinder. Correct me if I'm wrong???

[fiveOnick]

Originally posted by EXtreme-
he's got a brand new jetted a/s from ESR, so I doubt it's a flooding issue. Besides, the fuel would be pouring all over the floor via the overflow and never rise high enough to reach thru the reeds and into the cylinder. Correct me if I'm wrong???

Thats not necessarily true, I would agree with others. A flooding problem will cause these symptoms.

[C-LEIGH RACING]

If that engines flooding enough to cause it to sort of hydrolock at times, then that would be a great deal of fuel puddled up in the crankcase.
It could be it is puddled, that would explain why it wont run but a second or two.

Do this,
next time you start the engine & then shut it off, when you get ready to start it back up & after you kick it a time or two & the compression is high like your saying, pull the spark plug out, ground the coil wire out on a bolt somewhere & then kick the engine over see if its hard to kick or look down & see if you see fuel blowing out of the plug hole.

An engine flooded enough to cause the compression to go way up, that would be quite a bit of fuel in the crankcase.
Neil

[RichM1983]

Have you ever taken the plug out when it gets hard to kick and then kicked the bike over while the plug is still out? If I ever flooded I would take out the plug and kick alot and then put the plug back and the flooded problem would go away. If your problem is flooding because of the carb I know it will come right back but I would check and see how it kicks with the plug out.

[wilkin250r]

I'm at a loss.

Fouling plugs is a jetting issue. But you need a running engine to fix a jetting issue.

As for the compression issue and hard to kick, I HAVE noticed this on my own engine, and I don't have an explanation for it. But I've noticed that if my engine doesn't start on the first few kicks, it becomes more difficult to kick, and much more likely to kick back at me.

It feels like the compression continues to climb, like it doesn't release all the compression. I know this is impossible, because a full rotation of the crankshaft will open all the ports, but that's what it FEELS like, because it gets increasingly difficult to kick. The fifth kick is much more difficult than the third.

Mine never gets impossible to kick, so I don't have a solution for you, or an explanation. I just kick it harder, and it eventually starts.

[Jason Hall]

I had an experiance with a 86 R It would kick back so hard it would make you want to cry. The problem with this bike was the person that rebuilt the engine bombarded the cylinder with 2 stroke oil. The oil was sealing the rings so good, that you could'nt kick It over at all. This thing kicked harder than a CR500.

The problem you are having sounds like It Is flooded so bad that the crank case Is full of gas and everytime the piston goes down, the gas Is pushed up through the transfer ports and Is liquid binding on top of the piston. Be very carful to ground the coil like someone else suggested. If you just start kicking It over when flooded with no plug Installed & your coil fires you could have a big fire. I would make sure the float level Is not set to high.

That plug looks like It Is gray. I hate to say It, but It looks like there was some detination going on In there. You might want to check the flywheel keyway also. That could cause all the problems you are having.

[adam833]

ok I checked and it was not flooding....ended up taking it back to the shop and they said that the problem is my wiring harness and cdi box. They mentioned originally when I picked it up before all this that when they had my bike apart and were putting it back that they had a hard time getting spark at 1st because the harness was all messed up from whoever removed the lights etc. I forgot the word he used but he said thats why its kicking back so hard cause its firing or something at the bottom part of the kick causing that kickback. He said I dont need it but if I get it done it wont have that bad kickback. I hate to say this cause I am going to look so stupid but they both started the bike right up, 1st time within 2 kicks with sneakers on, then I tried for a few minutes with my work boots and could not, then the other mechanic came out and kicked it and started it 1st kick. I swear there are hidden cameras on me cause I cannot get this friggin thing started. My foot is so sore from the kickback.
I will see if it still fouls once I get it back and take it for a real ride

[C-LEIGH RACING]

I dont know if anyone has ever told you, but the TRX ignition system, you got to crank it over at least 750 rpm for it to even produce a spark.
You got to kick the level like your trying to rip it off with your foot.
Neil

[peeping TOM]

Originally posted by C-LEIGH RACING
I dont know if anyone has ever told you, but the TRX ignition system, you got to crank it over at least 750 rpm for it to even produce a spark.
You got to kick the level like your trying to rip it off with your foot.
Neil

so true, even then its hard to see..

try getting the kickstart the higgest it will go,, so that the pistons TDC,,then you,ll get more inertia to the crank ,,maybe thats why those guys were kicking it over easy ,,,

[adam833]

finally got it fixed with help from this board..turns out Jason and aceman were right.


it was the flywheel!
I told the mechanic to check the flywheel, one told me they had checked it when they rebuilt the engine so I brought it to another to check it and it had been cut a little and it was throwing off the timing and causing vicious kickback. I bought a new ricky stator lightened flywheel for 125.00 and the carb had to be rejetted down to 172 because it was popping and wouldnt stay running after the new flywheel was put on.

It was driving me absolutely nuts that the 1st mechanic was telling me its a fresh rebuilt engine with more compression and I have to learn how to kick it and deal with it.

I can kick it with sneakers now if I wanted to because its so much easier to kick. I would never use sneakers just explaining how much easier it is. Starts 1st kick without the choke up in 40 degrees.


thanks for the help everybody!!!!

[Aceman]

Glad you got it fixed!:cool:

It's always nice to find out what the problem was too. Thanks for the reply.:)