Did anyone else see....

[416exfreak]

The news this morning?

Global stock market is also in a recession. The Japanese were the first to step up and point fingers at the USA. Maybe they forgot about pearl harbor...

Our president actually thinks that giving people back a little bit of money is going to fix our economy. Really, the smart people will dig a hole and put the money in a safe place. Some people may go out and piss it away, but most people will keep it, and that in turn would drain our government even more...correct?

Bush has raised the limit to the national debt allowance quite a few times since being in office. He has single handedly pimp slapped every single of us, without ever lifting a finger.

We should have seen this coming a long time ago. Depression #2...here we come.

:(

[ZeroLogic]

There won't ever be another Depression like we had. There are just to many safety nets. A majority of the people that would receive that money will just piss it away I believe.

[smr]

don't blame busch. It's because of that pimp we had in office before him. He set it up to where people can lay around on there lazy ***** and get free housing, food stamps and even cable tv. Clinton milked the economy and now we are all paying the price.

[DEREK_SINE]

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/nWyygiyPbdA&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nWyygiyPbdA&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080121/world_markets.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aEgwdDHD5Fbs&refer=home
Who knows how bad it's going to be, we have a lot more people in the world today. I don't see safety nets when you don't have the money to buy food.

[Pappy]

money issues during an election cycle....who would have thunk it

big business has been running rampant for the past 10 years or so, now its time to pay the piper. people have been over spending and living above their means and now its time for a ***** slap.

glad i deal in change.

[416exfreak]

Originally posted by Pappy
money issues during an election cycle....who would have thunk it

big business has been running rampant for the past 10 years or so, now its time to pay the piper. people have been over spending and living above their means and now its time for a ***** slap.

glad i deal in change.

Lol. So what your saying, is....those who have caviar tastes and a sardine wallet, are now having to face reality?

And ZERO...China pretty much finances our militairy, I think our national debt is somewhere around $6-8 billion.

Its entirely possible to see another depression like the one in the 1920's. It doesnt matter what kind of safety nets OUR government has in place. When another country has you by the balls, you can only fight back so much.:ermm:

[smr]

Originally posted by 416exfreak
Lol. So what your saying, is....those who have caviar tastes and a sardine wallet, are now having to face reality?

And ZERO...China pretty much finances our militairy, I think our national debt is somewhere around $6-8 billion.

Its entirely possible to see another depression like the one in the 1920's. It doesnt matter what kind of safety nets OUR government has in place. When another country has you by the balls, you can only fight back so much.:ermm:

It's possible but not likely. There are plenty of jobs out there but nobody wants to flip burgers or work on a farm. People expect to startout making top dollar. It's finally cought up with us.

[bwamos]

Originally posted by 416exfreak
The news this morning?

Global stock market is also in a recession. The Japanese were the first to step up and point fingers at the USA. Maybe they forgot about pearl harbor...

Our president actually thinks that giving people back a little bit of money is going to fix our economy. Really, the smart people will dig a hole and put the money in a safe place. Some people may go out and piss it away, but most people will keep it, and that in turn would drain our government even more...correct?

Bush has raised the limit to the national debt allowance quite a few times since being in office. He has single handedly pimp slapped every single of us, without ever lifting a finger.

We should have seen this coming a long time ago. Depression #2...here we come.

:(

What does Pearl Harbor have to do with anything?

FYI: Bush does not have the authority to increase the debt allowance. That responsibility would lie squarely on the shoulders of congress. Your democrat majority congress, FYI. As was the Tax rebate approved by congress.

Bush never claimed that the rebate would fix the economy. He touted it as a "short term stimulus". It was the press that started the whole thing about it not being a long term fix. Bush specifically stated that it was not a long term fix.

It's like someone giving a diabetic w/ low blood sugar a candybar or some orange juice to help with a short term boost. Then everyone complaining because orange juice doesn't cure diabeties. Duh..

Also, if you truly beleive we are going into a depression, how would saving that $500 be smart, exactly? If we were to go into a depression (stagflation), the $500 you so wisely saved would be worth about $25. It would be wiser to spend that money on something that would retain value and/or a necessity, no?

Lastly, if you are truly offended by the whole tax rebate issue, feel free to paypal that 500-800 to me. I'll gladly take on that burdeon. :P :)

The democrat politicians are smart. They pass these things, then point fingers at Bush during a critical election period. Democrats have House and Senate majority. They are the one's with the power to control these decisions.

[416exfreak]

Originally posted by bwamos
What does Pearl Harbor have to do with anything?

FYI: Bush does not have the authority to increase the debt allowance. That responsibility would lie squarely on the shoulders of congress. Your democrat majority congress, FYI. As was the Tax rebate approved by congress.

Bush never claimed that the rebate would fix the economy. He touted it as a "short term stimulus". It was the press that started the whole thing about it not being a long term fix. Bush specifically stated that it was not a long term fix.

It's like someone giving a diabetic w/ low blood sugar a candybar or some orange juice to help with a short term boost. Then everyone complaining because orange juice doesn't cure diabeties. Duh..

Also, if you truly beleive we are going into a depression, how would saving that $500 be smart, exactly? If we were to go into a depression (stagflation), the $500 you so wisely saved would be worth about $25. It would be wiser to spend that money on something that would retain value and/or a necessity, no?

Lastly, if you are truly offended by the whole tax rebate issue, feel free to paypal that 500-800 to me. I'll gladly take on that burdeon. :P :)

The democrat politicians are smart. They pass these things, then point fingers at Bush during a critical election period. Democrats have House and Senate majority. They are the one's with the power to control these decisions.

Say what you will. I posted this for that reason;)

Pearl Harbor = us kicking the japanese's arses. Perhaps they should remember that before they point fingers and such.

[ZeroLogic]

Originally posted by 416exfreak
Say what you will. I posted this for that reason;)

Pearl Harbor = us kicking the japanese's arses. Perhaps they should remember that before they point fingers and such.

So they should point fingers at Australia for doing nothing? Its mostly America's fault.:ermm:

[mxdad]

Originally posted by bwamos
What does Pearl Harbor have to do with anything?

FYI: Bush does not have the authority to increase the debt allowance. That responsibility would lie squarely on the shoulders of congress. Your democrat majority congress, FYI. As was the Tax rebate approved by congress.

Bush never claimed that the rebate would fix the economy. He touted it as a "short term stimulus". It was the press that started the whole thing about it not being a long term fix. Bush specifically stated that it was not a long term fix.

It's like someone giving a diabetic w/ low blood sugar a candybar or some orange juice to help with a short term boost. Then everyone complaining because orange juice doesn't cure diabeties. Duh..

Also, if you truly beleive we are going into a depression, how would saving that $500 be smart, exactly? If we were to go into a depression (stagflation), the $500 you so wisely saved would be worth about $25. It would be wiser to spend that money on something that would retain value and/or a necessity, no?

Lastly, if you are truly offended by the whole tax rebate issue, feel free to paypal that 500-800 to me. I'll gladly take on that burdeon. :P :)

The democrat politicians are smart. They pass these things, then point fingers at Bush during a critical election period. Democrats have House and Senate majority. They are the one's with the power to control these decisions.

Very well put!!!

[416exfreak]

Originally posted by ZeroLogic
So they should point fingers at Australia for doing nothing? Its mostly America's fault.:ermm:

Im not sayign we arent at fault. Im just saying that I think they should have looked more at the siuation. One country doesnt control then ENTIRE global stockmarket.

[shadowwalker]

Originally posted by 416exfreak

And ZERO...China pretty much finances our militairy, I think our national debt is somewhere around $6-8 billion.
Try 9 trillion.

[<DRS>GPF]

Originally posted by 416exfreak
One country doesnt control then ENTIRE global stockmarket.


thats exactly right...
in fact IMO, foreign economies are as much or more to blame for the US economic sag..(along with the big business who sold us out..)

the US has been greater then fair to foriegn countries when it comes to imports and exports.
in fact, i would say we magnanomously kiss their 3rd world begging arses...
and for what..? to be unfairly taxed, copied, cheated and downright lied to about trade relations.. all the while being called "the evil west"as they fill their mouth with healthy USDA meats, soaking up the juices with the bread made from US heartland wheat, then finishing off with a nice glass of red california wine... meanwhile their children wash down the peanut butter sandwiches and washington apples with USDA milk..
(note the pattern here..)

its obvious the world economy has cut the sheet at the top to add to the bottom.

what goes around, comes around..

[mod440ex]

i just want my money to pay off some credit card bills. if they really wnat to help the country out start by lowering gas to about 1.50 a gallon and then everyone will have more money to put back into the economy.

[shadowwalker]

Originally posted by mod440ex
i just want my money to pay off some credit card bills. if they really wnat to help the country out start by lowering gas to about 1.50 a gallon and then everyone will have more money to put back into the economy.
It would help if you had a basic understanding of economy and paid slight attention to the news. Oil dropped today. Generally its reasonable to assume if the stock market and economy drops, so will the price of oil. People aren't going to be spending or driving as much if they need to save money, thus oil will have less demand. 1.50 a gallon will never be seen again, get over it. It's not going to happen.

[kawiefan]

we waste so much money on other coutnries instead of our own.
i could care less about the war on the mid east. let them kill each other and if it gets out of hand send a few fireworks over and take out that whole area. world would be a better place without them.

we waste to much on the DEA to. I say leagleize the drugs. its your choice to do them or not. i see that as population control. LOL

most of this could have gone to a good cause for the U.S.A, like katrina. JMO on all of this

EDIT: If we would leagalize the drugs the govt. could put a tax on it and make a killing off it. let the idiots do drugs

[416exfreak]

Originally posted by kawiefan
we waste to much on the DEA to. I say leagleize the drugs. its your choice to do them or not. i see that as population control. LOL

EDIT: If we would leagalize the drugs the govt. could put a tax on it and make a killing off it. let the idiots do drugs

Big problem with that is that people can grow thier own marijuanna, make thier own Heroin, cocaine, crack, LSD, etc.

The government cant control how much is made, therefore they CANT put a tax on it, and make any money off of it.

Not to mention, with as many crazy people as we already have, we dont need half of he population baked or strung out on heroin driving our children to school or working in our restaraunts.

There are way to many bad things that would come of legalization, to outweigh the good. It will never happen, for that im thankfull.:cool:

[kawiefan]

Originally posted by 416exfreak
Big problem with that is that people can grow thier own marijuanna, make thier own Heroin, cocaine, crack, LSD, etc.

The government cant control how much is made, therefore they CANT put a tax on it, and make any money off of it.

Not to mention, with as many crazy people as we already have, we dont need half of he population baked or strung out on heroin driving our children to school or working in our restaraunts.

There are way to many bad things that would come of legalization, to outweigh the good. It will never happen, for that im thankfull.:cool:
i didn't think of that, good point

[Pappy]

Originally posted by 416exfreak
Lol. So what your saying, is....those who have caviar tastes and a sardine wallet, are now having to face reality?

And ZERO...China pretty much finances our militairy, I think our national debt is somewhere around $6-8 billion.

Its entirely possible to see another depression like the one in the 1920's. It doesnt matter what kind of safety nets OUR government has in place. When another country has you by the balls, you can only fight back so much.:ermm:

I would place blame on several fronts.

1) lenders who allowed buyers to obtain homes that were well out of their financial means. People buying $900,000 homes due to the low interest rate are the leading factor in whats driving down the economy. Forclosures are at a record high because of this and the responsibilty falls on the lender and the homeowner! so what do we do, we turn to the government to bail them out! if i dont charge enough for my powdercoating work and start to go broke, will you give me the money so that i can stay in business?

2) like it or not, our leaders have turned to the world economy just as the majority of nations have and i do not like it either, but i will voice my opinion on election day just as i have since 1988.

While it is possible the economy could tank so bad that a depression hit, we wouldnt just see americans with their hands out, you now have a gazillion people in this country that will be in line behind you and they are not paying the same share you and i are into the economy!

So yes, those that have lived beyond their means, made poor financial decisions must now live with the outcome. ofcourse those of us that live a nice, meaningful life without oweing everyone and their brother will be forced to pay in our share to bail them out....so tell me whats fair about that? and i am by far rich or well off, my garden and the animals i hunt are used to sustain my family and keep a few bucks here at home instead of heading off to big companies and migrant illegal workers. what have you done besides spend and complain?

[416exfreak]

Originally posted by Pappy
I would place blame on several fronts.

1) lenders who allowed buyers to obtain homes that were well out of their financial means. People buying $900,000 homes due to the low interest rate are the leading factor in whats driving down the economy. Forclosures are at a record high because of this and the responsibilty falls on the lender and the homeowner! so what do we do, we turn to the government to bail them out! if i dont charge enough for my powdercoating work and start to go broke, will you give me the money so that i can stay in business?

2) like it or not, our leaders have turned to the world economy just as the majority of nations have and i do not like it either, but i will voice my opinion on election day just as i have since 1988.

While it is possible the economy could tank so bad that a depression hit, we wouldnt just see americans with their hands out, you now have a gazillion people in this country that will be in line behind you and they are not paying the same share you and i are into the economy!

So yes, those that have lived beyond their means, made poor financial decisions must now live with the outcome. ofcourse those of us that live a nice, meaningful life without oweing everyone and their brother will be forced to pay in our share to bail them out....so tell me whats fair about that? and i am by far rich or well off, my garden and the animals i hunt are used to sustain my family and keep a few bucks here at home instead of heading off to big companies and migrant illegal workers. what have you done besides spend and complain?

My father doesnt Hire illegals to work for him, even though he could gtet off with cheaper labor.

We grow our own vegetables and kill most of our own meat when its in season.

Its kind of hard to not spend money. We require deisel/ gasoline each and every day, and we dont have a refinery...therefore we must buy it from a big company. My dad cant make the steel pipe he works with everyday, nor can he make the wrenches he uses. We buy those from companies.

Its a give-take situation. They give us our good, we give them our money. All we can do as individuals is sit along for the ride. If we rose up as a whole nation, we could change the course of how this is going to turn out.

[Fred55]

Originally posted by 416exfreak

Pearl Harbor = us kicking the japanese's arses. Perhaps they should remember that before they point fingers and such.

Actually the attack on Pearl Harbor...we got ours kicked by them if you didn't remember...it just led to us having to kick theirs back....

[416exfreak]

Originally posted by Fred55
Actually the attack on Pearl Harbor...we got ours kicked by them if you didn't remember...it just led to us having to kick theirs back....

You are correct, but I meant that it lead to us kicking thiers.;)

[Pappy]

Originally posted by 416exfreak


Its a give-take situation. They give us our good, we give them our money. All we can do as individuals is sit along for the ride. If we rose up as a whole nation, we could change the course of how this is going to turn out.

explain how. you are saying we are all along for the ride yet we can ride up and change.....change what? it is now a global economy and there is no practical way for us to turn off the spigot of foriegn products, 3/4 of this nations factories and the skilled labor to operate it are history! whats left are not efficent, produce products that are not of the same quality as many of the same produced overseas etc....all for a cost greater then brand ching chang chong.

the reason our own companies are losing out is not due to labor costs, its entirely on taxes. did you know we are the only country to tax its companies on goods and service income completely produced or work preformed outside the country? there is no benefit for big companies to operate here as american companies, that is why we are seeing a huge shift in where and how goods are bought and sold worldwide. you get a handle on taxing those that make money and produce/manufacture etc and you will see more american business be able to compete and not sell out to foriegn companies and investors. its a damn shame that we sell our scrap metals to china, they are recycled and reformed and shipped back here to be sold cheaper then steel made here in the USA. The same goes for any product you can name.

it does start with the indivdual, it is called personal responsibilty. we ***** about the government then in the same breath hold our hands out for assistance. we have a nation filled with illegals and lazy non productive citizens that overwhelm the very fabric of what this country was founded on.

as far as oil prices and such, it could very well drop below $1.50 if our goverment would cut its spending habits and remove the heavy taxes on petroleum products. telling folks to get over it is akin to telling you to deal with the way things are and for your dad to suck up the increase cost to his business and for you to stop whining about it. you are still a few years from actually being part of the whole mess we are in. hopefully when you get into the workforce and can make real change that you carry some commonsence with you and can be one of our youth that inacts real change and not just mindless banter. it is good that this alarms you, but make sure you shae the stick at the right problems and at those that are making it worse day by day.

this country started to fail when we moved from a shirt sleeve nation to a long sleeve nation....period.

[416exfreak]

Originally posted by Pappy
explain how. you are saying we are all along for the ride yet we can ride up and change.....change what? it is now a global economy and there is no practical way for us to turn off the spigot of foriegn products, 3/4 of this nations factories and the skilled labor to operate it are history! whats left are not efficent, produce products that are not of the same quality as many of the same produced overseas etc....all for a cost greater then brand ching chang chong.

the reason our own companies are losing out is not due to labor costs, its entirely on taxes. did you know we are the only country to tax its companies on goods and service income completely produced or work preformed outside the country? there is no benefit for big companies to operate here as american companies, that is why we are seeing a huge shift in where and how goods are bought and sold worldwide. you get a handle on taxing those that make money and produce/manufacture etc and you will see more american business be able to compete and not sell out to foriegn companies and investors. its a damn shame that we sell our scrap metals to china, they are recycled and reformed and shipped back here to be sold cheaper then steel made here in the USA. The same goes for any product you can name.

it does start with the indivdual, it is called personal responsibilty. we ***** about the government then in the same breath hold our hands out for assistance. we have a nation filled with illegals and lazy non productive citizens that overwhelm the very fabric of what this country was founded on.

as far as oil prices and such, it could very well drop below $1.50 if our goverment would cut its spending habits and remove the heavy taxes on petroleum products. telling folks to get over it is akin to telling you to deal with the way things are and for your dad to suck up the increase cost to his business and for you to stop whining about it. you are still a few years from actually being part of the whole mess we are in. hopefully when you get into the workforce and can make real change that you carry some commonsence with you and can be one of our youth that inacts real change and not just mindless banter. it is good that this alarms you, but make sure you shae the stick at the right problems and at those that are making it worse day by day.

this country started to fail when we moved from a shirt sleeve nation to a long sleeve nation....period.

I agree with your last statement pappy. The fact is, your right. We cant produce the same materials that foreign contries do, for thier cost. Honestly, I dont know what can be done about that situation.

The only thing I can think of, is if they (the big companies) are going to be taxed for making thier products overseas anyways, why dont they bring the jobs back to the USA. That might help our economy. I know that Michigan has a dangerously high unemployment rate because all of the automotive manufacturers are moving overseas and the people of Michigan are out of a job.

Let me rephrase what I said. I'll put it like this.

A single drop of water weathers a stone very little. A whole river weathers the stone away in no time.

In other words, one person cant do very much by themselves. As a whole group (nation), we can produce a huge change.

Do you kind of understand where im coming from?

(not trying to be a smartass):)

[Pappy]

i understand you fully....


however, who exactly are you going to get together to form a river? whites, blacks, mexicans, chinese, middle eastern...the melting pot is so diverse that getting enough people together that will actually agree on anything that would instill positive change is, i am afraid to say, a waste of time. we still have people running amuck with our tax money, spending and wasting like the well has no bottom. you have the big corperations making loads of cash (must be because their CEO's are getting paid cake BIG TIME) and you have the typical little guy who doesnt stand much of a chance. the system will correct itself, but those folks living a caviar life will be the ones to pay the hardest while the working man keeps on doing what we have done, scrape by.

its hard to listen to those cry about the stock market, cost of gas and the ever increasing cost of life when they repeatedly lay out credit for items that you and i end up paying for when they go belly up...goes back to the whole personal responsibilty thing....right down to how you raise your kids and what you teach them about material things(kind of hard to take someone crying about money seriously when they have $15,000 worth of toys in their signature) <----not infering you, just a generalization.

yep....the lesson this time around will be hard, but along time in the making.

[416exfreak]

Originally posted by Pappy
i understand you fully....


however, who exactly are you going to get together to form a river? whites, blacks, mexicans, chinese, middle eastern...the melting pot is so diverse that getting enough people together that will actually agree on anything that would instill positive change is, i am afraid to say, a waste of time. we still have people running amuck with our tax money, spending and wasting like the well has no bottom. you have the big corperations making loads of cash (must be because their CEO's are getting paid cake BIG TIME) and you have the typical little guy who doesnt stand much of a chance. the system will correct itself, but those folks living a caviar life will be the ones to pay the hardest while the working man keeps on doing what we have done, scrape by.

its hard to listen to those cry about the stock market, cost of gas and the ever increasing cost of life when they repeatedly lay out credit for items that you and i end up paying for when they go belly up...goes back to the whole personal responsibilty thing....right down to how you raise your kids and what you teach them about material things(kind of hard to take someone crying about money seriously when they have $15,000 worth of toys in their signature) <----not infering you, just a generalization.

yep....the lesson this time around will be hard, but along time in the making.

You speak the truth. Our country is a melting pot, but if you live in America, and your concerned with the best thing for your home country...then you need to get the hell out of America.

True Americans, and the immigrants who love this great country would be willing to do whats needed. I for one would support a movement that would help to correct our economy and all of our other problems. I love my country, and were it not for both of my parents saying no, I would happily join the marines to go fight for what we all have.

I also agree with the raising of children statement. My parents taught me to appreciate what I have. When I whined and complained about something when I was younger, off went my dads belt. Beleive me, I understand the value of what I have, and very thankful. I know there are others out there (even on this site) that are less fortunate than I am.

I already work to pay for my 440, my cell phone (that I never use) and pretty much everything else that I want. My parents buy me the necesities like, new clothes, food, school supplies, etc...but I do pay for the dates with my girlfriend, all of my gas, parts, mods etc. and I also help pay for gas when we go on trips to ride.

I guess you could say, my parents have instilled a decent knowledge of real life. I cant just ask for money and get it, I have to work for it. I know im not a "member of society" in the way that im not 18, I cant vote yet and I dont have to pay taxes (aside from them coming from my paycheck every friday), but I do think I have enough common sense to see that our country is in a delima and we're all going to get the reprocussions of what we (other people, the ones you meantioned with the caviar tastes) have done.

[zukirules]

I had 15 grand in a mutual fund thanks to the gp's. But, it's down to about 12.9 grand at the moment . It'll be down to about 10 thanks to my yfz haha.

[mod440ex]

thats kinda a dumb thing to spend that on. you should really leave that in there and let it grow. trust me you will regret it later on in life.