View Full Version : welp...im screwed...(i think)
kicken250x
11-13-2002, 08:42 PM
Today I finaly got my x back together and I screwed it up again!! Well I didnt do it it was the guy who sent me a new cyclinder or the guy who pressed it in did...IDK. But anyway...tell me what you think this results in...I had it all put back together and I kicked it over a few time then it started I was like "YEA!!!". But then it went CRACK! but it was really solid and it cut off then " AH...F**K" then you hear "WHAT DID U SAY?!?!" (moms b/f was standin there with me lol) than you see plastic flyin and the 4 wheeler goes back in the building..... What do yall think happend Ill be back with the answer later on tonight or tomorrow! Good luck guessin lol later....
kicken250x
11-14-2002, 05:08 PM
Well...today I found out it was worse than I thought... The ring that is around the top of the sleeve is ripped off and was stuck to my head gasket and the sleeve is about 3-4 inches down inside the cyclinder sitting on top of the crank...The top ring is in the groove on the back side but the front and both sides it is pulled out and sitting on top of the piston....Not a really pretty sight... My main question is how the h**l am I supposed to get the cyclinder out? The motor is locked the way it is now... I tryed to put one foot on top of the tranny and the other down on the frame and pulling up but that was just a waste of energy.... Has anyone ever had this happen to them? Thanks alot yall! Later...
nakomis0
11-14-2002, 06:09 PM
I'm a little confused.
Did you just say.. You had a new 'sleeve', installed and.. it somehow moved and in now sitting on the crank?:huh
dood, I would be biatching up a storm.
As to how you get it out... Maybe try opening up the center cover on the side case, (where you put a socket to rotate the motor while adjusting valves).. and see if you can get it to move alil or something. Goodluck man.
kicken250x
11-14-2002, 09:25 PM
If you look at the top of the sleeve there is a little ring that sticks out meybe 1/8 of an inch that holds it up aginst the head. That broke off and when the piston when down it took the sleeve with it. When it went down it hit the top of the crank and everything seezed up I tryed kicking it over to see if it would maybe push the cyclinder up (after i took everything off) but that didnt work...maybe I can turn it the other way... I guess Ill find out tomorrow or somethin. I still dont understand how it happend everything in the head is fine so it wasnt the timing? And I dont understand how the rind got on the OUTSIDE of the piston...? im so confused! Anyone got an explination for this? Thanks! Later...
joeroadking
11-15-2002, 11:34 AM
man that is terriable I wonder how come the sleeve moved or broke sounds like bad machine work or a poor sleeve I would be upset sorry about your misfoutune my cylinder is getting resleeved right now scary stuff, please post any new info
kicken250x
11-16-2002, 04:12 PM
Yesterday I went out to the building and turned the motor over backwards and the whole bottom of the sleeve is gone it cracked off when it hit the crank. I also tried to pull the top ting out with some Vise-Grips and a 20 oz. bead hammer but nothing happend. what. I guess in going to have to do is get some sort of small jack and use it to pull the cyclinder off the sleeve and get a plasma cutter and cut the sleeve off.... I hope it doesnt come to that but I got a feeling it will... Do any of you know any other way that I can get the sleeve off besides that? i have another sleeve so im not too woried about it. Thanks alot yall!! Later...
you've got the head off, right? then take some dry ice and put it on the piston. it should shrink it enough to get the jug off. good luck.
kicken250x
11-16-2002, 08:14 PM
Hum.... I never thought of that. Only one problem tho... where do I get dry ice? Another thing I think is going to be a pretty big problem is that when the sleeve hit the crank it cracked into 1000 peices at the bottom...how do I get them all out? I know that when I change the oil some of the smaller peices will come out but what about the big ones? Once again thanks alot guys!! Later...
BadA$$440
11-16-2002, 09:08 PM
First of all, you have to call up the company who resleeved ur cylinder and tell them they have to deal with it since techinically it is there fault or its the company that made the sleeves fault. But i would split the cases if i were you to make sure there isnt metal debree (sp) down there.
hey the same thing happened to me on the 300ex , so i am not alone afterall, well it sucks and my bill was around 800
kicken250x
11-16-2002, 10:34 PM
I dont think it is the guy who sleeved its fault. This was the probibly the 4th+ time it has been pressed out and back in. So I think it just had been pressed in and out so many time it got weak and eventualy cracked. What do yall think? Later...
beerock
11-16-2002, 10:39 PM
either way from how you described it al I can say is holy *****
kicken250x
11-16-2002, 10:46 PM
yea thats what i said....:( :( :(
it doesn't matter what the case is, the company that re-sleeved it is responsible for f*cking your bike up, call them up, ask to talk to the manager or someone in charge, b*tch up one **** of a storm and tell them you are gonna send them the motor and have them deal with it at no extra charge, just sound mad and frustrated and pissed off that you can't ride for a while, my dad is in the sales business and listening to his customers you can get whatever you want doing that, so good luck to you and just sound sad, mad, and blame the company on a bad re-sleeve job, and tell them you want it fixed at no extra charge, good luck on it
josh
kicken250x
11-17-2002, 01:08 PM
That is the last thing I want to do is piss David off. I can get almost any machine work done for near nothing. I dont know though maybe im missing something? This is his profession he presses sprockets on electric motors te cases on them you name it he has probibly pressed it in/out once or twice. I was there when he pressed it in did everything he was supposed to, he pressed it in slower than I have ever seen anyone do befor so it woudnt mess up. Dont guess it worked to well though. Ill call him tomorrow and see what he says. But still does anyone know where I can get dry ice around here (Greensboro, NC)? Thanks alot yall. Later
Sparks425Ex
11-17-2002, 01:38 PM
Well I don;t know his name on here. It is Rider 11 i think sumthing like that but his name on AOL is : Evan9R. Well he just had his 400Ex fixed and it pulled the sleeve down outta the cyclinder. Talk to him maybe he can help ya.
Other then that all i can say is WTF happened?
kicken250x
11-17-2002, 02:54 PM
I dont know what happend... On monday Im going to call around to a few dealerships and see if they have ever had anything like this come through their shops. Im hoping they can tell me something if it has. They will probibly make me bring it in and charge me 50 bucks to tell me everything I already know. I would go ahead and try to split the cases but i cant do that because the cyclinder is still on there and those stude wont let me take them apart. It looks like the only choice im going to have to get some dry ice and put it on the piston like MEL said and take it to school with me one day and cut the sleeve off in autobody with the plasma cutter they got there. I really dont want to do that but it looks to be my only choice. Later...
Evan is X-rider on here, FYI, and yes his 425 sucked his sleave up to
dads400ex
11-17-2002, 04:16 PM
You might try your local supermarket or a meat locker or meat processor one of them should have some dry ice, or ask your supermarket who delivers there ice and give them a call or have the store do it for you.
What ever you do, good luck man.
dads400ex
eldoexrider01
11-17-2002, 05:53 PM
i think your best bet would be to go and find a 350x motor and be done with it. cuz my friends x motor locked up cuz of somthin in the low end busting and he gave up on it and is lookin for a new motor.
kicken250x
11-17-2002, 06:10 PM
Easier said than done. It is next to imposible to find a 350x motor that is in decent shape unless I could find a crate motor. I really dont have that kind of money at the moment either. That is why I was trying to sale it cause i wanted to get my mom something nice for x-mas but it dont look like thats gonna happen this time... I still have a little time hopefuly I can stilget it out of here befor x-mas...Thanks yall! Later
joeroadking
11-17-2002, 06:44 PM
sell what is left of your motor on ebay, and try and get a 350x motor it is well worth saving for ,the instal is pretty basic I built 2 of them the performance differance is huge, I know where you can get a good running 350x motor for $600. seen it at a friend of mines shop,if you ruined your crank and your top end it may cost $600 to fix!!
Rastus
11-17-2002, 07:14 PM
First off: take your engine clear outta the frame. The frame only clutters up space, and work room, cause your gonna need alot.
Second: An engine swap would be nice, but you have to account for time fixing exhaust, mounting brackets, etc.
My best advice would be to try that dry ice, and see if that works, then move onto cutting if it won't come off.
Oh, if you can find a small jack, or port-a-power, try using that to pry, with the help of that dry ice if ya can.
About the metal peices in the bottom, after you have the oil all drained, take the engine out, take both side cases off(if you already haven't) and look.
Those are my best bets, I can't get into detail...some pics would be nice...
:D
kicken250x
11-17-2002, 08:36 PM
I planed on takin the motor out tomorrow and getting a few pictures and posting them on here if I can figure out how to work my scanner. The last thing im doing is cutting my cyclinder! I just spend 150 bucks on it so thats out. ill get yall a few pics hopeful next week sometime. Thanks alot! Later...
yell, scream, faint, wake up, throw stuff, and yell at the peeps and say they f'ed it up haha:devil
kicken250x
11-17-2002, 08:56 PM
GOOD IDEA!!! Ill do it tomorrow! This is going to be great!
was therea garuntee? cuz then ur garunteed ur cylinder or money back
Yo dude I just read this thread after talking to you on AIM
I feel your pain, really badly. This is the second time my motor has gone to crap. From the way you are describing it, it sounds exactly like mine. My top ring was rolled up over my piston also. As well as the top ring over the cylinder popped off. Has your x been bored alot? or bored to the maX? I know my cyl has and I am wondering if thats what caused it. From talking with people, and letting my dad look at it(hes a mechanic) it sounds like the sleeve cracked and one of the rings caught on the crack and in turn ripped the sleeve out since its so thin. I know my sleeve was busted into a million peices, i picked peiecs out for 10mins with a magnet and theres still more in there, whats left of my sleeve looks like a coke can. At the least the cases will have to be split and the whole bottom end cleaned out. The way we got mine off was my dad put a ratchet and socket on the timing bolt on the side that turns the crank, and he pressed and tapped on that while i hit the sides of the cyl with a deadblow hammer. After a while it started to come off and then it came pretty easy.
Hope this helps
outlaw319
11-23-2002, 09:42 PM
Not to bash you guys...(kicken and X-rider) but i think thers more there than the sleeves being the problem! Did you guys install the pistons? If so did you check the ring gap before installing? It sounds to me by the way you guys talked about the rings being pulled out and mangled! that is the gap was to tight! Thus being there wasn't enough room for the rings to expand when the engine heats up, causing it to sieze and the torque of the motor turning yanked the sleeve down in the process! But a sleeve shouldn't be able to be yanked down that easily though, so sleeve could be part of problem also!Like X-rider stated if the sleeve was bored out, this would make the material thinner and allow the sleeve to shatter. I'm no expert, and i'm not saying that this is what caused it...but its just my opinion to what it sounds like to me! Does anyone agree?
As far as getting it apart....the dry ice(very good idea) port A power, deadblow hammer, all sound like the way to go! Anything rather than cutting!
Sounds reasonable but no, thats not the answer, I have put many a piston in, and the rings were correct. I am not sure what was wrong with the 250x, but I know mine had a lot of stress, 13:1 will do that on a thin sleeve. Could have run lean. If it was the rings how did i get so many hours out of it b4 it happend.
kicken250x
11-23-2002, 10:09 PM
Yes that does sound like a logical explination for all of this but no, thats not what happend. I check and rechecked the ring gap 3 times over. I know what Im doing when i put a motor back together, trust me. That was only about the 20th motor I have rebuilt. Today I went out and took the case covers off today and stuck a magnet in one of the oil transfer holes in the case and pulled out 4 peices ove the sleeve, one was about the size of a half dollor accross and about the size of dime wide, the smallest peice I pulled out was about of a peice of .7 pencil led so it looks like I have alot of work ahead of me. Ill keep you posted on how things are going. Thanks alot for your help so far!! Later...
outlaw319
11-23-2002, 10:22 PM
X- rider I didn't mean to insult you in any way! I was just mainly suggesting what it sounded like to me on the 250X! I do think thats yours could've been a different cause because as you said your sleeved bein bored out and thinner! Especially when running 13:1 compression!!!! alot of stress!!!!
I had a buddy that had a 440 w/ 13:1 comp and was having problems w/ the head studs pulling loose. I tried to explain 2 him that it was alot of comp on stock head ( no porting, valve job,etc.)
so it was building to much pressure that it couldn't get rid of equally! I tried to tell him an engine is just a air pump...the more air pressure you have comming in then should have more leaving!
But he wont listen! thats why this is his 5th rebuild in less than 2 years!
outlaw319
11-23-2002, 10:34 PM
same to you Kicken! i wasn't trying to insult anyone! I was just giving an idea of what could have caused it. As far as cleaning the piecs out of the motor, I would sugest takin the time to split the cases. Its some time consumming work but its the best way to make sure all the metal chunks are out of there. because some of the smallest pieces can cost ya in the long run!!! Especially on a 4 stroke, the pieces can travel into the transmission, and in time thats some real big$$$$$$ to be fixin! Well good luck with everything! And sorry to hear bout that happening to ya!
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