400ex Starter

[DAB516]

So my 400ex won't start for me. I know it's not the battery and I think I've narrowed it down to the starter. So my question is how can I tell if my starter is dead and what are my options now?

[DAB516]

anyone

[drew416ex]

What exactly is it doing or not doing besides not starting.

[byrdman]

find your starter solenoid and touch both of the terminals with a screwdriver or pliers. if your starter cranks then your starter is good. do you hear the solenoid click when you try and start it?

[DAB516]

Originally posted by byrdman
find your starter solenoid and touch both of the terminals with a screwdriver or pliers. if your starter cranks then your starter is good. do you hear the solenoid click when you try and start it?

The solenoid clicks for alittle while trying to start then stops. Thats about all that happens. Touching both terminals with a screwdriver didn't do anything but spark. Fuses are all good and I checked wiring. So if the starter is bad do I just buy a new one for like $80 or can it be rebuilt alot cheaper.

[drew416ex]

If it is the starter, it might just need some new brushes.

[byrdman]

i would definately check brushes before i replaced or had it rebuilt. its not hard to check or replace them. if you have any doubts pick up a manual. if you invest in a honda shop manual it will give you trouble shooting steps to diagnoss problems.

[BossmanEX]

Before you pull the starter, put it into a higher gear (3rd or 4th) and roll it to make sure the motor turns over. :eek:

[DAB516]

Originally posted by BossmanEX
Before you pull the starter, put it into a higher gear (3rd or 4th) and roll it to make sure the motor turns over. :eek:

I can push start to quad perfectly and it runnes like a charm once you get it fired up.

[limetimeracerII]

Check the ground on your battery.

[GPracer2500]

Just curious how you're sure it's not the battery.

[DAB516]

I've checked the battery with a multimeter and it is fully charged and it's not the ground.

[BossmanEX]

Sounds like its probably the starter then. I bought a high torque starter from ebay and its been worth it. my old factory starter just wasnt doing the job anymore.

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by DAB516
The solenoid clicks for alittle while trying to start then stops....

The reason I asked about the battery is because of that ^. That sounds like a worn out battery. How many volts is the battery reading? Did you test it under load? Just seems like I've seen people tear apart wiring harnesses, replace starters and whatnot when the whole time they just needed a new battery.

But anyway, if you're SURE the battery is good: Connect the starter motor terminal directly to the positive side of the battery (use a heavy gauge wire). If the starter does not turn then something is wrong with the starter. I'd remove the starter for that test just to eliminate any confusion between a bad starter and some sort of problem with the starter clutch.

[ride red 14]

unbolt your cable from your starter. take a battery charger and put the positive cable on the post where you unbolted the cable. take the negative cable from the charger and touch it to the starter housing to ground it. if the starter turn the motor then it is good.

[maxfior]

Originally posted by GPracer2500
The reason I asked about the battery is because of that ^. That sounds like a worn out battery. How many volts is the battery reading? Did you test it under load? Just seems like I've seen people tear apart wiring harnesses, replace starters and whatnot when the whole time they just needed a new battery.

But anyway, if you're SURE the battery is good: Connect the starter motor terminal directly to the positive side of the battery (use a heavy gauge wire). If the starter does not turn then something is wrong with the starter. I'd remove the starter for that test just to eliminate any confusion between a bad starter and some sort of problem with the starter clutch.

Yeah, I agree here, even testing a battery with a good multimeter, you still need to check the battery under load. Even a dead battery might show proper voltage but will not have enough amps to get the starter motor to crank... Load testers are pretty cheap. I don't know if it's a good idea to try and jump the EX off a car battery. I had to do that once or twice with my CBR, it'll crank it over REALLY fast so you have to watch out that the starter does not fry. The testing that is stated above is a very good place to start, let us know what you find out! Good luck!

Max

[DAB516]

Originally posted by ride red 14
unbolt your cable from your starter. take a battery charger and put the positive cable on the post where you unbolted the cable. take the negative cable from the charger and touch it to the starter housing to ground it. if the starter turn the motor then it is good.

Ok so I tryed this and the starter sounded really weak and would only try to turn for 1 second then die.

[ride red 14]

sounds to me like bad brushes. any one else agree? they are easy to replace and not that expensive.

[X400EX]

Originally posted by ride red 14
sounds to me like bad brushes. any one else agree? they are easy to replace and not that expensive.

I agree on that one.

[DAB516]

Ok so I'm going to try and replace the brushes and see if that fixes the problem. I've never torn apart a starter before, anything special I need to know. I have a manual so I'll look in it and it will probly give me some pointers.

Below is and exploded view of the 400ex starter. So in order to replace the brushes I need to order parts 2,3, &5. Anything else I should pick up when doing this job?

http://www.bikebandit.com/assets/schematics/Honda/HJ650020.gif

[byrdman]

you shouldnt need the springs or holder just the set of brushes.

[ride red 14]

if i remember right, the only peice you need is #5. i believe the brushes come with the plate.

[DAB516]

Originally posted by ride red 14
if i remember right, the only peice you need is #5. i believe the brushes come with the plate.

Thanks for the help. I finaly took the starter completely apart and there are alot of metalic shaving in there. It looks like they are from the brushes. I think i'm going to try and just order #5 since when I took it apart the brushes were attached to that plate.

[byrdman]

there shouldnt be any metalic shavings in the starter motor from the brushes, they are made out of carbon. if there are metal shavings inspect the starter for any wear. check the armature contacts(where the brushes make contact) check the bearings and your armature where it spins inside the field windings.

[DAB516]

sorry my miss understanding they are carbon shavings. I'm taking this as a good sign that the brushs are warn out?

[byrdman]

how long are the brushes? when they get shorter the spring pressure behind them decreases and the motor runs less efficient. also make sure they werent sticking in the brush holder. sometimes you just need to clean the holder in order to free up a sticking brush.

[DAB516]

The brushes are both 7/16" long and were not stuck.

[DAB516]

In the attached pictures is the metal parts where the arrow is pointing are they supposed to be flush with the rest of the body? Other than that how does it look?

[DAB516]

Anything look wrong, that you can see, with the brush holder?

[ride red 14]

it all looks good. the brushes are wore out though. the new ones will be twice that size. check to be sure the plate comes with the brushes. if not you should be able to order them seperate. i can't remember.