Putting in a webcam

[blue_ex_rider]

I am going to be putting in a new webcam 463/9i in my 400ex in a couple of days. Is there anything special you have to do or look out for when putting one of these cams in. Anybody that has put one in and has some advice it would be great help to me.

[flauge]

I think you might need hardened rockers.

[blue_ex_rider]

Yea i do need harden rcokers but I ddint know if there was anything different about putting them in then like a hotcamx or stock cam.

[NacsMXer]

If i'm not mistaken, you will also need shortened valve guides in addition to the hardfaced rockers. I'd call up Webcam and make sure so you don't have a problem. Other than that, it should be a straight forward cam install.

[drew416ex]

You need hardened rockers, shortened guides, hd springs like kibblewhite, and I had to get my piston cut to clear the valves cause they were hitting.

[416exfreak]

I have that same cam. And all I had to do was install the hard-faced rockers.

I didnt have to do anything with valve guides or anything. I already had heavy duty springs though.

[blue_ex_rider]

How do you like the cam have you ran any other cams besides this one and if you have how does it compare. Did it change the sound of your bike any I am going to be running the sparks x 6 with it i hope it sounds good.

[blue_ex_rider]

Also what kind of pistion was you running that had to get cut. I am running a JE I ordered from sparks today you think it will ahve to be cut. Or will it be ok.

[drew416ex]

when i had it it was with the sparks 87mm 12.5:1 piston. Just check your valve clearances before you crank it. Web says that shortened guids are required so thats why i said you need them.

[blue_ex_rider]

Yea I got shortened gudies what did you have to do to the top how much did you have to take off. Also i will be running it with a stroker crank so that could make a difference as well.

Originally posted by drew416ex
You need hardened rockers, shortened guides, hd springs like kibblewhite, and I had to get my piston cut to clear the valves cause they were hitting.

dang thats a lot of work for a cam

[blue_ex_rider]

It akes alot of work and money to make a fast engine. I am building this motor to try and set a national 400 modified 200ft drag recxord which is 3.46 And I was running High 3.5's before the diaster of my valve sticking in my pistion and tearing up the whole top end.

[blue_ex_rider]

Also Drew416 how did you like the sparks pistion did it do well.

[drew416ex]

It did great. Made a noticable diff. in power. Had it in for two years without a problem. I only took it out because i wanted more so i built it to a 440 stroker. :D

[blue_ex_rider]

Yea I hope so sparks usually has pretty good stuff . Did you take soem off of the top of the pistion or did you take it to a machine shop and get it done. I allready got to take soem off of the skirt for the stroker crank so I guess i could get the top done while i was at it for thwe web cam to work. I am still not set on the webcam yet i already ahve it but just ahvent put it in yet but I like the sound of the sparks but i guess i am just a big fan of sparks so i dont know which I will go with.

[drew416ex]

Im a fan of them too. They make good stuff and are always willing to help when you ask. Are you getting a spacer plate for that piston because it wont fit with a stroker crank. It will hit the head. I would have kept that piston in mine but i didnt want to get a spacer plate and longer timing chain.

[blue_ex_rider]

Is that pistion a higher domed pistion or something . What makes it hit the head also what stroker crank do you have. What pistion are you running

[drew416ex]

That piston is made for stock stroke, so if it gets a 4mm stroker the piston moves up 2mm higher in the chamber so you either get a piston with a lower deck height (wrist pin closer to top of piston) or a spacer plate to make up the difference. I have the hot rods 4mm stroker and powroll 87mm stroker piston.

[drew416ex]

oh and yes, it does have a much higher dome on it than a stock or 11:1 piston.

[NacsMXer]

Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
dang thats a lot of work for a cam

That would be expected from one of if not THE most radical cam profile on the market right now. Not your standard drop-in cam :p

[TRX406EX]

a friend of mine was accedentally sent a set of hardened rockers from web cam, free of charge when he ordered a cam...

[blue_ex_rider]

Yea that would be nice. I have talked to alot of expert engine builders and they say that harden rockers arent as much of a need as alot of people think. They said that as long as you keep good lubricant in there that you will be fine. So I dunno I might run them just to be safe

[NacsMXer]

Originally posted by blue_ex_rider
Yea that would be nice. I have talked to alot of expert engine builders and they say that harden rockers arent as much of a need as alot of people think. They said that as long as you keep good lubricant in there that you will be fine. So I dunno I might run them just to be safe

I wouldn't go so far to assume that. I used to run a Webcam 450/451 grind that I "thought" was a drop-in cam at the time....didn't use the hardfaced rockers. I only ran it for about a year running full synthetic Mobil 1. When I sent my motor to Lazarus at GT Thunder for a complete stroker overhaul he informed me my stock rockers were pretty worn out. I was switching to a new HRC cam at the time so I went ahead and replaced the worn rockers. The 450/451 grind is pretty mild in comparison to the 463/9i grind so i'd imagine the wear would be considerably worse with the more aggressive grind. Over the short term I think you would be ok but you might experience some wear after a while. I think it would be smart to do it right the first time and run the necessary mods Webcam recommends.

[blue_ex_rider]

Well I just drag race my bike . So it dont get alot of hours on it so I figure I can get 2 years out of it. Because i only run it about once a week for a hour or so and that is only in the summer. So I think it will be good for a while.

[drew416ex]

my buddy ran a web cam in his raptor without hard faced rockers and got about 2 hours out of it. :D

[blue_ex_rider]

Drew I got to talk to my engine builder today and he says that the sparks pistion I ordered will work . So I hope that the pistion was a good choice I am going to have to modify the pistion some so it doesnt hit the case. You have got my nervous about the 463/0i cam hitting my pistion so I might go with the sparks exhaust.

[drew416ex]

I thought about it and the only way that piston would work with a stroker crank is if he installed a shorter rod on your crank. If that is the case then all you have to worry about is the cam.

[blue_ex_rider]

Yea I guess that will be my only trouble . What the hotcam you are runing now and the web 463/9i could you tell a big difference.

[drew416ex]

I didnt run the web cam that much because I lost enough low end that i didnt like it. I race mx and like low end torque to come out of turns and unless i kept my revs up I couldnt do it with the web. But it has a great mid to top end hit. Its not that big of a deal to get the cam in though. Just clay it and get the clearances right.

[blue_ex_rider]

I ahve brand new rocker arms installed because I had a hotcam in there. How long do you think they could make it with say the sparks cam in there before wearing the rockers out . All I do is drag race. So I dont put alot of time on my bike and only ride it like 3 months out of the year. I figured if I could keep the rockers in for a year and if they were worn ouy i could just send them off and get harden ones done. I hate to send brand new rockers to get harden and spend 250 bucks when i could use these for awhile. So i dunno what to do really.

[blue_ex_rider]

Unless you have some for sale drew

[blue_ex_rider]

Also I talked to sparks again today and they ahve almost talked me into running there x 4 cam instead of the web that I had. So I guess we will see how it preforms. I hope i am making the right decision

[drew416ex]

No i sold mine about 3 months ago. I really wouldnt go without the rockers. They will wear away pretty quickly and then you have all those nice metal shavings in the engine. My buddy tried it on his raptor and got maybe a few hours on it before his rockers were gone. Plus if you dont go ahead and do it you will have to buy another new set of rockers to get them hardened because they wont harden a worn set of rockers. Check out ebay. You can usually find a set of hardened rockers already installed in a cover for around $100. That would be way better than getting all those shavings in your fresh engine.

[blue_ex_rider]

Yea I will prolly get some I guess it is better to be safe than sorry. I will get some pics of it when i get it all done drew and let you see it. Thanks for all of your help

[drew416ex]

No problem. I know how you feel about not wanting to get them but i have cut corners and it ended up costing more in the long run so i try to keep others from doing the same thing. i think sparks is the cheapest as far as hardened rockers go.

[blue_ex_rider]

Yea I can get the valve cover and brand new hardened rocker for like 240 shipped. How much could you think I could get out of a valve cover and rocker taht have less than an hour ride time on them. What happen was I got a whole new top end 1200 worhtn and first race dropped a vlave and tore the head and pistion up so I had to go back through everything . So i ahve rockers that are almost new and a valve cover taht is good hsape and i didnt know how much i could get otu of them.

[drew416ex]

There is no telling with ebay. It depends how many are listed and how many people want them. It could go anywhere between $10-$120. Ive seen some go a little higher.

[drew416ex]

By the way, how much did that stroker crank cost you.

[drew416ex]

I forgot to ask, are you using the 87mm or 89mm piston. I guess you would have to use the 89 to get it to a 480-490

[blue_ex_rider]

89 I wish it was an 88 cause i think ti would rev quiker the guy that has the 400 modifed national record on dirt for 200ft the same person bulit both of our motors but he has the 88 and I have the 89 and beofre the build he he was a little faster.

[blue_ex_rider]

The bottom end was around 2000 I think. I got way to much in the bike hurts me to think about ti really. And all i do is drag race it about 20 times a year

[drew416ex]

Have you thought of lightening your flywheel. A guy on here did it to his 460 stroker and said it reved way faster and gave it quite a bit more torque. The less weight the engine has to turn the better right. Im going to try it, but im in the process of trying to figure out how much to take off. And if it makes things worse, ill just get another stock one off ebay for cheap.

[blue_ex_rider]

Ken Cornwell bulit it he is big into Mx racing i think you might know him his shop is callled rocky ridge racing

[blue_ex_rider]

Yea I thought about doing it the other day really. I just need to get me a flywheel puller and go form there. i found some one that does it for like 40 bucks. But i heard that they could cause your bike to stall. And do you know anything about the programmable ignitions i thought about one of those.

[drew416ex]

It would probably cause it to stall if youre just putting around at a low rpm or something, but if you are drag racing you dont have to worry about that. The absolute best ignition made is by MSD. It is expensive though but with you being a drag racer there wouldnt be a better one for you. You might wanna check it out just to see what it offers. Ive heard people having problems out of the dyna.

[blue_ex_rider]

That is what I heard it gives you 5 hp or something that ys alot really. If money works out right that is what I am going to get cause it offers the holeshot feature as well.

[blue_ex_rider]

Also Drew what do you mean by the term claying the pistion in I have never heard that used before. What exactly does that mean.

[drew416ex]

you get some clay (modeling clay works good), and put a little in the valve pockets of the piston and some on the top of the piston near the outside where the head could hit. Then you put the head on, torque everything down, put in the cam and cover and roll the engine over with a ratchet or something. Then take everything back apart and measure the thinest part of the clay and that will be your clearances. The piston to head clearance should be no less than .040" , and valve clearances are no less than .060". Im not too sure about the valve clearances but your cam sheet should tell you.

[blue_ex_rider]

Have you ever dynoed your stroker before and also what kind of stroker are you running.

[drew416ex]

Not yet. I just got it together 3-4 weeks ago. I plan on doing it within a couple of months. I am running a 440 stroker. 87mm piston and 4mm crank.

[blue_ex_rider]

I willl be glad to get mine back togther and see what she can turn over on the dyno. I had it together for a couple weeks last time and I had taken it to a shop and taht put eveything brand new in it from the top end. And after a few races it dropped a valve and stuck in my pistion and tore the head up. So I had to replace over a thoundsand dollar head. I dont know what caused the valve to drop but since taht valve droppin cost abut 1600 I dont want it to happen again so me and my buddy are goign to out it togther this time. Hopefully know more valve problems

[blue_ex_rider]

Also drew with the sparks pistion and the web cam did you adjust your valves to stock and the clerence was fine or did you have to adjsut accordingly. i will be running a pretty thick gasket prolly maybe even a copper one for the nitrous so i didnt know how much of an issue the clerence would be.

[drew416ex]

I adjusted them to whatever the cam specified. When are you expecting to get it together.

[blue_ex_rider]

Well I hope here in a week or so the pistion will be here tommrow. And I think I am going to go with the sparks cam so I have a stock core on the way so i should be able to send it off at the first of next week. I also got to go up to the machine shop and get the pistion modifed for the stroker crank and shorter rod. And am trying to find a good deal on the harden rockers but havent found any yet Everything in the top end will be sparksSo hopefully i will ahve here all done in a couple weeks am looking for some pretty parts as well like a duncan chrome bumper and a scooped hood and a few other things like that.

[blue_ex_rider]

Also i was wondering if it would hurt anything to take off alittle on the top of the pistion just to be safe and make sure that was no clerence problem and about how much did you have to take off with the sparks pistion and web cam

[drew416ex]

im not too sure how much was taken off. I just told the machinist what i needed and he did it. Nothing got taken off of the top though, just the valve reliefs.

[blue_ex_rider]

So if i took a little of then you think I would still be fine. Also what kind of gasket did you run

[drew416ex]

I would clay it before you take any off so you atleast know how much to take off if you need to. I just run the oem or cometic gaskets.

[blue_ex_rider]

Yea you would think that if you ran a sparks pistion aand cam that you wouldnt have to do anything to them. But you never know i guess. I dont know how accurate i will be with the clay never have tried anythign like that before it looks easy but i still dont really know about it.

[drew416ex]

Sparks told me if you use their piston and cam together it should work but to check just in case. But running a stroker you should deff check it. It isnt hard at all, just time consuming.

[blue_ex_rider]

Does just the rockers have to been hardened with the sparks cam. Like the subrockers dont have to be hardened do they cause i Found a pretty good deal on just the rockers and I didnt no.

[drew416ex]

Just the rockers with the pads on them have to be hardened since they are the only thing that come into contact with the cam.

[blue_ex_rider]

That is what I thought but was just making sure.