DS gets 2nd in ATVsport 450 shootout

[GE4x4]

The March issue has the shootout of all 7 450's. Very thorough as they did drags, trail, weight,handling,ergo's, plushness, and price. The KTM450 got 1st with the DS getting 2nd, then the Outlaw pulling 3rd. Very good reading with pluses and minus's to all. One thing I did find suprising was weights. They weied all quads on Nascar scales on each tire with 1 gal of gas. The KTM came in the lightest at 367lbs, with the DS at 370lbs. The YFZ came in at 377lbs (shows there dry weight way off). The heavy weight wasn't the Outlaw, but the LTR which came in at a whooping 413lbs.:huh Still good reading if you get the issue.

[mx86250R]

hmm thats VERY surprising about the KTM being lighter than the DS. Although I've heard that the KTM's frame has thin tubing and bends pretty easily. Walsh's website had pictures but I can't seem to find them now. I can believe the LTR being the heaviest, though!

[Punk'd]

What were the drag racing results?

[GE4x4]

Originally posted by Punk'd
What were the drag racing results?

The race was 660'. The KTM came in 1st with the Outlaw 2nd and LTR 3rd. (both were hampered with 18" tires for top end) then the DS with the YFZ.02 behind it. Then the 450R with the Kawi in last. They were all close tho looking at the graph. The Outlaw was the quickest to 100' All but the Honda and Kawi hit 60mph in under 10 sec. They liked the plushness and steering of both the Outlaw and DS. They gave the 2nd over the Outlaw due to a nice front end, high teck, and user friendly. They also felt it was very centralized thus made it feel lighter then the KTM even tho it weighed a bit more. Good reading. 9 pages, so it wasn't just a couple things then a winner.:macho

[TWISTED DINLI]

Originally posted by GE4x4
The race was 660'. The KTM came in 1st with the Outlaw 2nd and LTR 3rd. (both were hampered with 18" tires for top end) then the DS with the YFZ.02 behind it. Then the 450R with the Kawi in last. They were all close tho looking at the graph. The Outlaw was the quickest to 100' All but the Honda and Kawi hit 60mph in under 10 sec. They liked the plushness and steering of both the Outlaw and DS. They gave the 2nd over the Outlaw due to a nice front end, high teck, and user friendly. They also felt it was very centralized thus made it feel lighter then the KTM even tho it weighed a bit more. Good reading. 9 pages, so it wasn't just a couple things then a winner.:macho

18" tires would give it LESS top end:huh

[GE4x4]

Originally posted by TWISTED DINLI
18" tires would give it LESS top end:huh

Yes. Small tires= geared lower= less top speed. 2" smaller tires is almost the same as going 3 teeth more in the rear sprocket.

[TWISTED DINLI]

ohhhh ok

[lem dad]

So are you sayin taller tires will give give you more top end ????????

Rowlands Motorsports
Dylan 03

[TWISTED DINLI]

Originally posted by lem dad
So are you sayin taller tires will give give you more top end ????????

Rowlands Motorsports
Dylan 03


yea thats what i thought lol

[GE4x4]

Originally posted by lem dad
So are you sayin taller tires will give give you more top end ????????

Rowlands Motorsports
Dylan 03

You are correct. Taller tires will gear the quad up, thus giving a higher top speed.

[coryatver]

it will only give you more top end if the quad can rev out with the extra tire height. On lower hp quads it can make them slower.

[GE4x4]

Originally posted by coryatver
it will only give you more top end if the quad can rev out with the extra tire height. On lower hp quads it can make them slower.

I think these 450's can all rev out. And where talking about 1 tire size. Changing tire sizes is just like changing sprockets. You either gear up or down. No difference.

[GE4x4]

Here is a link so you guys don't think I'm making this up. When you get the site you will see speeds for 20" tires. Then change to 18" and you will see the difference.

Tire speeds (http://home.earthlink.net/~gellett/400ex.htm)

[ThePhantomRider]

Doesn't surprise me, I figured that those 2 would be at the top.

Nice to see more balanced reporting and testing done.

It also doesn't surprise me that the weights were where they were even though the DS is aluminum.

What surprised me was that the Polaris was 3rd. Good for them!!!

Interesting how things have changed....expect Japan to answer strongly!!

Either way, We all win!!!


TPR

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by ThePhantomRider


Interesting how things have changed


TPR


Yes, yes it is.

[450raider]

doesnt anyone ever think of price anymore? honestly the ktm quad is impressive and does come with a lot of stuff and if someone wants one and has the money well get it but for mag shootouts they should quit writing them out like money isnt an object for people who ride but it is now im not gonna guess which should have and shouldnt have won because i havent even rode a ds or ktm (and may never get to because of where i live) or an ltr or outlaw. and on a side note there was a time when i swore id never pay over 6k for a quad and looky the freakin 400's go for that, the 2 times i went over that was 6500 and 7500 but a ktm looks as if with taxes it would run 9500 so someday i may get one but no time soon like most people so mags need to target consumers and not racers with unlimited funds im not trying to sound like im bit***** or nothin. thats kinda how it came out.

just my thoughts

[GE4x4]

Originally posted by 450raider
doesnt anyone ever think of price anymore? honestly the ktm quad is impressive and does come with a lot of stuff and if someone wants one and has the money well get it but for mag shootouts they should quit writing them out like money isnt an object for people who ride but it is now im not gonna guess which should have and shouldnt have won because i havent even rode a ds or ktm (and may never get to because of where i live) or an ltr or outlaw. and on a side note there was a time when i swore id never pay over 6k for a quad and looky the freakin 400's go for that, the 2 times i went over that was 6500 and 7500 but a ktm looks as if with taxes it would run 9500 so someday i may get one but no time soon like most people so mags need to target consumers and not racers with unlimited funds im not trying to sound like im bit***** or nothin. thats kinda how it came out.

just my thoughts

That is true, but what the mags do is show which is what they feel is best for that shootout, then you decide what you want. You say the KTM is to much, then take the 2nd place winner or 3rd. There not making you buy them, but putting them in order, then you can make a choice of what you can afford. The KTM is the only one way high, all the others are with-in $500.

[realbadlarry]

People are buying KTMs for mid 8's out the door. Figure that the other 450s are mid 6's up and then add another 3k for susp, and you are in the same spot. For the majority of riders that don't change their susp, the other quads are great options. Ktm just happens to come with some $$$ bling on it.

[MOTORIDER68]

It doesnt matter what quad you end up choosing just like it doesnt really matter which quad they choose to win the shootouts. You have to decide what quad works for you and your budget. Can you sacrifice a little more money for a little better shocks and etc...or is it not really that important to you. I have only bought one brand new quad in my life and doubt I will ever buy another. I buy used ones for less $ and with more addons that would cost me thousands. Sure I still have to buy parts but not as much. We all have to choose what suits our needs we should just be thankful that we have all these quads to choose from. BTW glad to hear the japs got smoked...and i even ride one.

[bwamos]

Originally posted by realbadlarry
People are buying KTMs for mid 8's out the door. Figure that the other 450s are mid 6's up and then add another 3k for susp, and you are in the same spot. For the majority of riders that don't change their susp, the other quads are great options. Ktm just happens to come with some $$$ bling on it.

Yes and no. The 3k suspension is tuned for them and their riding style.

The KTM will still need a revalve/respring if you want it to be setup for you. That will cost you around $500.

That being said.. I would be all over a KTM if they had better front end geometry. Perhaps the MX version coming out will?

[gimp419]

I bet the YFZ would win if DirtWheels did the same shootout LOL!!!!:devil:

[bwamos]

I bet the Raptor 350 would win in the same shootout if it was Dirtwheels.. lol.

[450raider]

:p i dont know bwamos, i hear pretty mean talk of that 250 its to my understanding that any other company making a 250f quad now would be pointless, but yeah we already know DW's outcome, the yfz will go to the dunes and take out the ltr, the track and take out the hon and ktm, then right off the track onto the trails and clean out the others....before departing into the water and sink the jetskis ha ha, but one thing that does suck is how they all bury the kawi, but it doent matter, us kawi riders dont give a s***, mags send the doubts, and well send em back.

[Vade]

i was gonna call bs on the ltr coming in 3rd but i forgot they changed the motor in the 08's

looks like a chose the right quad

[ThePhantomRider]

At least till that thin wall KTM frame buckles like the one shown one Walsh's website.

Good they went with Cro-Mo, too bad they made it too light.

I'd be willing to bet you put that ALTEC frame and the KTM frame on a machine that tests strenght with compression, expansion, flex and twisting forces that the DS frame would hold up better.


TPR

ok u find that picture for me and i dont plan on crashing into trees anyway so that shouldnt be a problem

[Punk'd]

Originally posted by ktm 525xc 696
ok u find that picture for me and i dont plan on crashing into trees anyway so that shouldnt be a problem

I would'nt worry about hitting trees just yet buddy.

First you have to learn how to put the bike into gear;) OR in your case acually have a KTM.

Still waiting for pictures..

[scottwvu]

Originally posted by Punk'd
I would'nt worry about hitting trees just yet buddy.

First you have to learn how to put the bike into gear;) OR in your case acually have a KTM.

Still waiting for pictures..


LMAO!!!!! Punk'd is calling you out!!!!

[pred174]

ktm 525xc 696.........300 million sperm and thats the one that got through......:D :blah:

[ThePhantomRider]

Wow, well I would throw out the picture of the damaged KTM but Walsh's site removed it....probably due to someone at KTM telling them it was not in their best intrest business wise to throw their new quad into such bad light....


TPR

[ThePhantomRider]

I guess our friend got banned, oh well. When you decide to be a smart guy and cause trouble, you will be exposed.

Now where is my free DS450x?

My petition has 5 signatures.....I think that at least gets me a t-shirt...:D


TPR

[Vade]

KTM 525 OMG #1 numereo uno WoOt WOot

[Punk'd]

Whoever banned ktm 525xc 696 is now my idol:macho

[Pitty]

Originally posted by ThePhantomRider
Wow, well I would throw out the picture of the damaged KTM but Walsh's site removed it....probably due to someone at KTM telling them it was not in their best intrest business wise to throw their new quad into such bad light....


TPR

To be fair I don't think your example is very fair. You have consistantly backed the DS's failures saying either it was being fixed or a mod.

The story with the KTM frame reportadly, was that he hit the tree at a much higher speed than he originally said. Now take that with a grain of salt if you will, but remember many on this site have taken your word on face value.

And one other thing. An Aussie poster reported a DS collapsing after a heavy flat landing down under. It was quickly shipped back to Can Am and kepted hush hush. Whether it was true or not you assumed it wasn't, yet you assumed the opposite with the KTM.

KTM969 or whatever his name was deserved to get banned for his antics, so don't think I'm defending him.

[WOLFPACK]

Did they cut the pink wire, air box lid off and baffle removed for this shoot out?

[didntseeitcomin]

Someone already exposed the guy who claimed the KTM with the bent frame was done from hitting a tree at 15mph. Someone posted the original thread, local forum like galmisdunes forum so it didn't leak out to bigger sites like this, anyways the guy hit the tree at mach 1(4th gear if I remember right) not 15mph.

So that rumor was killed a while ago on KTMtalk.com

[Vade]

Originally posted by WOLFPACK
Did they cut the pink wire, air box lid off and baffle removed for this shoot out?

if they did it would be pointless since the rest of the quads could do the same

[etccb]

I agree that tpr's posts are one sided.Support the ds and throw the rest under the bus.We will all see how good or no so good the ds is over the next 6 or so months.TPR will get a pat on the back or have mud in his face.He has said bad things about that ktm pic.If it was a ds pic I'm sure there would be some reason for it.
And yes ktm whatever's posts were just a waist of space on the fourm.

[hak231]

Originally posted by GE4x4
Here is a link so you guys don't think I'm making this up. When you get the site you will see speeds for 20" tires. Then change to 18" and you will see the difference.

Tire speeds (http://home.earthlink.net/~gellett/400ex.htm)


So, according to this calculator, all I need to do is get 43 inch tires and I can go 150mph on a 400ex. Wait till all the pre-teens find out about this. Monster truck tires will be making a comeback.

[joedirt]

I can't wait till a DS hits a tree 4th gear pinned... just as long as the rider doesn't get hurt.

[Punk'd]

Originally posted by joedirt
I can't wait till a DS hits a tree 4th gear pinned... just as long as the rider doesn't get hurt.

No doubt its going to break then.. lol And 4th pinned into a tree without getting hurt? :eek:

[joedirt]

Originally posted by Punk'd
No doubt its going to break then.. lol And 4th pinned into a tree without getting hurt? :eek:
Not head on maybe just clip it with the front tire.

[maconu]

My comments:
1. I have read in some of TPR posts where he has given the KTM props. He has a lot of information on the DS and seems to know quite a bit about other rides. I for one find his posts informative and I nearly always get something out of them unlike ALLLLL the complaining posts (like mine is turning into.. :)

2. You could take any quad from any manufacturer and I'm guessing somewhere in its history someone has taken it out for its first day and had issues / broke it. I would think that the vast majority of quads from every manufacturer don't have issues. It takes a rider who isn't thinking or is way outriding the bike. Newer rides (ds450, KTM450 / 525) are going to be scrutinized and have more rumors.

Complaints:
There is a lot of knowledge to find on these forums but you have to wade through PILES of Cr@p to find it. It would be nice if we could partition the DS site. Like a maintenance section, Ride Section.... etc.. then you wouldnt have to do as much wading....

I have raced my ds450 4 times so far, 2 MX Track and 2 Desert. I have had no problems with it. I'm looking forward to making it race ready (50", Long travel, pipe, filter...... till something else comes out for engine :) )

[ThePhantomRider]

Thank you for the comments. The thing about me is that I have been involved in off road for 30 years, ATV's for 25 and I mean as not only a rider, but a fan.

As a kid, I had my biases....I was a Honda and Suzuki fan, didn't like Yamaha and Kawasaki. You do that as a kid, but eventually as an adult I began to realize that all makers and models play significant roles in getting us to where we are today, and also down the road.

Consider Suzuki adding another wheel....Honda making a performance 3-wheeler, Yamaha going with a twin cylinder screamer, Honda going 4 stroke with the 400ex, Bombardier giving the big guys a 650, Yamaha getting the middle weight 450 divison back up and in vogue and Cannondale taking all the risks for no reward with alloy frame, factory installed performance shocks and EFI which is a direct descendent of the KFX 450.

We are in performance nirvana right now and I personally like the Can-Am and KTM for seeing that there was more room to grow and taking progressive, if not different steps forward. They have shown the Japaneese companies that you can go the extra mile and keep the pricing in the ball park and you will see within 5 years, all the brands will be within certian incriments of each other as their 450 2 wheel cousins.

Just think, this year there will be 1,2,3,4,5,6,7....count them 7 450 class quads racing in the pro class this year....and just over 8 years ago all we had was the Banshee and a bunch of warmed over 250's.

TPR

[coryatver]

I just read the article and I found a lot of mistakes! They kept saying the suzuki has 18 in tires but they were testing the 08 and it has 20 inchers. And then they were saying the KFX, KTM, and Yamaha have tapered bars. The Yamaha's Bars are pro taper brand but they are not tapered! It was quiet amusing how they were using the wrong facts to compare how they preformed. Do they just go out and have a good vacation with some new quads and then when the get back to the office make some crap up?

[kbass24emtp]

Originally posted by coryatver
I just read the article and I found a lot of mistakes! They kept saying the suzuki has 18 in tires but they were testing the 08 and it has 20 inchers. And then they were saying the KFX, KTM, and Yamaha have tapered bars. The Yamaha's Bars are pro taper brand but they are not tapered! It was quiet amusing how they were using the wrong facts to compare how they preformed. Do they just go out and have a good vacation with some new quads and then when the get back to the office make some crap up?

Your both right, it has 18's on the rear and 20's on the front. http://www.suzukicycles.com/Products/LTR450K8/Specs

[coryatver]

i just looked into it more and the tires are only 1/2 inch taller than last year so they are still considered 18s

[joedirt]

Originally posted by coryatver
I just read the article and I found a lot of mistakes! They kept saying the suzuki has 18 in tires but they were testing the 08 and it has 20 inchers. And then they were saying the KFX, KTM, and Yamaha have tapered bars. The Yamaha's Bars are pro taper brand but they are not tapered! It was quiet amusing how they were using the wrong facts to compare how they preformed. Do they just go out and have a good vacation with some new quads and then when the get back to the office make some crap up?

Bars look tapered.
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelimagelib/323/28/2/0/image.aspx

LOOKS like i picked the right quad

[ThePhantomRider]

You got one? Awesome!!!

KTM makes a great quad too, it's my second favorite, though I will admit, while I actually like the Can-Am styling, I love the way KTM reminds me of a modern Quadsport, right down to the orange and black color scheme.

Hope you have more constructive observation to contribute than the last KTM guy to post here. He was some hump who claimed to have one but was too afraid of getting it dirty so he just putted it up and down the road.

God if you're gonna own a quad, you got to get it dirty, don't you agree? I guess though it may be a lack of confidence in his riding skills that has him scared more than anything. Too often incompetent riders go out and buy somthing over their head and they make every excuse why they aren't fast, and generally it's never "their fault" but somthing else.

TPR

[RATPACK Z400]

i have a problem with Dirtwheels testing.for one test quads in drag races, they need to put the same tire&gear ratio then you,ll see who,s the fastest in real world.you cant say this quad is better in this dept. than this one if one has 18in tires and the other has 20in tires its stupid! if they put the correct tires for that area on all quads as for track,and trail, dune then test all quads on how they do in that type of riding then you,ll have real life testing, those tests are BS! I cant wait to read the BS!It would be real cool if they put pipe,jet,airfilter on all then test but that will never happen .And if you ever notice the newest quads always are the best till the next shootout then the suck,they ALWAYS hype the new quads !saying there so much better then 3mos later they suck.

[RATPACK Z400]

I just looked at old issue when they did shootout between kawi, yami, ds and the yami. won in the drag now for some reason its slower! and if the ltr has 18in tires and comes in #3 in drag without $40 mapping,airlid,baffle what it would do with these mod for $40 that everybody gets when they spend $7000 for quad, they should also do test with the dealer option like hrc kit, gyr,etc then run them.

[mhill157]

It is hard to believe anything they say in the shootout's for the simply fact that advertising money is more important to them then the true results. Look at Yamaha and suzuki they had the biggest and the most ad's and oddly enough those machines did well in the shootouts. I'm sure if each manufacture sent a race prepped quad from one of their teams they would do a test. But there is no way they could ever build quads for mx, tt, xc without breaking the bank.

Another problem I have with the tests are they use people that are usually pro or proam riders, a little different riding ability then most of us that will be riding the atvs. The only true test is riding each machine for yourself and talking to people that actually own a particular quad.

[GE4x4]

Originally posted by mhill157
It is hard to believe anything they say in the shootout's for the simply fact that advertising money is more important to them then the true results. Look at Yamaha and suzuki they had the biggest and the most ad's and oddly enough those machines did well in the shootouts. I'm sure if each manufacture sent a race prepped quad from one of their teams they would do a test. But there is no way they could ever build quads for mx, tt, xc without breaking the bank.

Another problem I have with the tests are they use people that are usually pro or proam riders, a little different riding ability then most of us that will be riding the atvs. The only true test is riding each machine for yourself and talking to people that actually own a particular quad.

That is why they use pro riders as there all on the same skill level. So each quad can have the same caliper rider. You can't have a pro and a amerture do a shoout as there skill would have confliting results. You need same quality rideres to do a acurate shootout. Also, if you look at the article, Suzuki had 2 full pages of adds, and lost. Can-am also had 2 full adds and came in 2nd, and KTM had 1 full page add. No adds from the others. So I don't think advertisement did the choosing.

[RATPACK Z400]

If you read the dirtwheels they always say that the newest is the best,then months later its not its to sell quads that just come out, you watch that ktm,ds450,will be at the bottom of the next shootout mark my words .

[chrisrzz1012]

I like the results from the shoot-out because someone had enough balls to say that the Yamaha isn't the greatest 450 period. Dirt Wheels must get money from Yamaha because every shootout that dam thing wins. I rode and sat on one. I have one word---junk. I sat on a DS and they are very good. It reminds me of an 250r and yes I owned one. That shootout should wake up the big 4 (Honda, Kaw,Suzuki, and Yamaha). They aren't the kings anymore too. Also if people look at the championships major Mx, GNCC, WORCS, Score, and others. The majority were won on a Honda. And also look who will be racing DS's enough said. Can-Am has designed and built a real good 450 first time out.


03-Honda 400ex Stock
02-Honda 400ex modded
02-Honda 400ex racer building
86-Suzuki LT-250r Quadracer (restored)

[chrisrzz1012]

I like the results from the shoot-out because someone had enough balls to say that the Yamaha isn't the greatest 450 period. Dirt Wheels must get money from Yamaha because every shootout that dam thing wins. I rode and sat on one. I have one word---junk. I sat on a DS and they are very good. It reminds me of an 250r and yes I owned one. That shootout should wake up the big 4 (Honda, Kaw,Suzuki, and Yamaha). They aren't the kings anymore too. Also if people look at the championships major Mx, GNCC, WORCS, Score, and others. The majority were won on a Honda. And also look who will be racing DS's enough said. Can-Am has designed and built a real good 450 first time out.


03-Honda 400ex Stock
02-Honda 400ex modded
02-Honda 400ex racer building
86-Suzuki LT-250r Quadracer (restored)

[RATPACK Z400]

Iv,e read the dirtwheels for years and they all hype whats new ! then months later its not as good as they said it was always ! I like the shootouts but know the results are a little exagerated.and not fair . you cant test a mx setup in the trails or dunes they need to change tires at the least ,if the suzuki came in 3rd with 18in tires for 08 that things one fast quad to beat the hon,yami,kawi,in top end. I give suzuki props for there improvements .I cant wait to read the hype BS they say about the new ktm,ds450s going to be a laugh cause in 3mons,they,ll be no better than the rest.And any top pro can ride any quad and win!

[Vade]

if i was in the market for a new 450 quad the ds would be dead last on my list

[Pappy]

Originally posted by GE4x4
That is why they use pro riders as there all on the same skill level. So each quad can have the same caliper rider. You can't have a pro and a amerture do a shoout as there skill would have confliting results.

Last month a magazine posted the info on the test riders, some stated 25 years of riding expierence...which is a falsehood because many of the "ridrs" havent been on quads for more then 2 or 3 years:p Many dont have a clue and ive seen it first hand at the races they attend to "race" and write about it. lord help them if it needs anything beyond gas!

[VIGILANTE MAN]

Originally posted by Vade
if i was in the market for a new 450 quad the ds would be dead last on my list

I'm not impressed either.

[RATPACK Z400]

I haven,t read it ,but Im willing to bet they gave the ktm high score in handling ,better than the suzuki,like they did honda saying a 46in wide quad can handle better than a 49in quad in turns is BS . but one things for sure you buy DS450,ktm,your still need to buy frontend and rearend for thousands more to race MX.

[kbass24emtp]

Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
I haven,t read it ,but Im willing to bet they gave the ktm high score in handling ,better than the suzuki,like they did honda saying a 46in wide quad can handle better than a 49in quad in turns is BS . but one things for sure you buy DS450,ktm,your still need to buy frontend and rearend for thousands more to race MX.

You have to take in to consideration this test was in the woods not on a MX track. I'm sure the results would be different on the track.

[joedirt]

Looks like natalie and gee raced in florida.
wonder what happened?
1 2AA Chris Borich Suzuki Sunbury, PA 50 0 5 1:15:16
2 7AA Taylor Kiser 013487 KTM Alva, FL 47 0 5 1:16:20
3 19AA Wes Kraft 491663 Yamaha Vero Beach, FL 45 0 5 1:19:16
4 76AA Chuck R Piper 013463 Yamaha Lake Placid, FL 43 0 5 1:23:08
5 10AA Greg Gee Can Am Ontario, HI 41 0 4 1:23:11
6 13AA John Natalie Can Am Houtzdale, PA 16 0 2 0:37:43

[hasbeenttduner]

I read natalie had overheating problems.

[pred174]

Originally posted by joedirt
Looks like natalie and gee raced in florida.
wonder what happened?
1 2AA Chris Borich Suzuki Sunbury, PA 50 0 5 1:15:16
2 7AA Taylor Kiser 013487 KTM Alva, FL 47 0 5 1:16:20
3 19AA Wes Kraft 491663 Yamaha Vero Beach, FL 45 0 5 1:19:16
4 76AA Chuck R Piper 013463 Yamaha Lake Placid, FL 43 0 5 1:23:08
5 10AA Greg Gee Can Am Ontario, HI 41 0 4 1:23:11
6 13AA John Natalie Can Am Houtzdale, PA 16 0 2 0:37:43

I wonder how that innoviative front end design works at pushing speeds

TPR this is your time to chime in....whats the excuse now

[DVS_Freestyler]

personally the design of the ds is a huge step for future atv's in the right direction. iv been riding my yfz since it was released in 03 and thought it was the greatest, up untill i rode the DS the LTR was my favorite "handling" ATV. The DS far surpasses the LTR in handling, its soooo much smoother to ride and goes exacly where you want it to go with plenty of motor to pull you around. you can really feel the weight is positioned exacly where it needs to be, it almost feels like riding a dirt bike, its soo much more predictable and feels that much lighter in the air. yes it is the first year of production and like most ATV's you will find flaws (havent found any thus far), overall the DS is way better than any atv iv ever thrown my foot over. for us (freestyle guys) its the ideal ATV, light, quick, and easy to manuever.

Derek Guetter
Akraix.com

[ThePhantomRider]

Originally posted by pred174
I wonder how that innoviative front end design works at pushing speeds

TPR this is your time to chime in....whats the excuse now

I'm not sure what your question is. The front end geometry is awesome, until you ride one you won't understand how the geometry coupled with the centrally located mass makes this quad handle so well.

When you ride one you'll think the quad is wider than it is because of this, it handles similar to a quad 2 inches wider, now go to the full 50" width and it's like having the stability of a TT bike on the MX track.

As for the results, I don't have the specifics on the race itself, but suffice it to say, it appears they raced a XC style race, so is it any surprise that the XC guys did well? How well did Natalie do when he tried XC on his Honda? I also don't know that Gee has much if any XC experience.

TPR

[bwamos]

Originally posted by pred174
I wonder how that innoviative front end design works at pushing speeds

It should do very well. As the front end has a higher angle of attack designed to agressivly attack choppy sections of the track. Very similar to -----------------removed for accuracy--------- the old aftermarket Leager's 250R frames..

[WOLFPACK]

Can't understand why it is that people keep flaming on TPR? He comes in with some good information. Sure he's biased so take his info with that in mind but don't flame on him because he has an opinion.


Originally posted by pred174
I wonder how that innoviative front end design works at pushing speeds

TPR this is your time to chime in....whats the excuse now

[joedirt]

Originally posted by bwamos
It should do very well. As the front end has a higher angle of attack designed to agressivly attack choppy sections of the track. Very similar to Bill Balance's modified angle of attack on his YFZ450, reminiscent of the old aftermarket Leager's 250R frames..
Bills frame was just narrowed not angled.

[VIGILANTE MAN]

Originally posted by WOLFPACK
Can't understand why it is that people keep flaming on TPR? He comes in with some good information. Sure he's biased so take his info with that in mind but don't flame on him because he has an opinion.

It's because every new quad that comes out is so ridiculously hyped up. After the release we usually find things aren't quite so rosey. It just turns into a joke afer a while.

No offense to TPR. I read what he has to say with much interest & respect. But for me the first year of racing will show what's what.

I hope the DS exceeds my expectations.

[WOLFPACK]

I'm impressed with it's performance in this race!

http://www.montrealmotocross.com/Video.aspx?en=1&no=136

[bwamos]

Originally posted by joedirt
Bills frame was just narrowed not angled.

Hmm.. I swore when the protest was out there he had narrowed the front end as well as increased the angle slightly. I have been wrong many times though, lol. I'll have to find some comparison photos to check myself. If you are correct, thanks for the correction. ;)

Either way an increased angle of attack up to a certian point will allow you to attack the face of choppy sections w/ less vertical feedback. However once you reach a certian point it hampers you're braking into corners (nosedive). Finding that happy medium is the trick.

Added note: did some research and found closeup photo's of bill's front end. It is obviously the same angle as the stocker just narrowed way up on the bottom. Corrected my first post.

[ThePhantomRider]

Hey, I don't take the flames personally when people ask good questions.

As for favoritism, since I have not yet had the funds to purchase one, my fascination has been in design.

I have always been an ATC/ATV freak, I love it when somthing new and innovative comes along and espically one that works.

When the Quadracer came out I freaked, when the Quadzilla, Banshee, 400ex, Cannondale and YFZ came out it was awesome.

My love for the growth of the sport is what drives me and I can only see good things comming from what Can-Am, KTM and even the Cannonsakidale have done. It's good for all of us in the end.

As for geometry the comments are right, every attack angle has been tried, different spreads have been tried and different arm lengths have been tried. Simply, Can-Am looked at what other racing setups looked like and found that outside of the atv world, the standard for steering geometry would mean bad/dangerous handling for any other type of racing. We just had the forgiveness of dirt. I tell ya, the first time a guy takes the DS onto a supermoto course, their eyes will light up as the full effect of the handling will be noticed.

Offset rims are a band aid fix at best, they just made the rim offset trick even better.

TPR

[hasbeenttduner]

Originally posted by bwamos


Added note: did some research and found closeup photo's of bill's front end. It is obviously the same angle as the stocker just narrowed way up on the bottom. Corrected my first post.


Look again and you will see the a-arm mounts were moved to put rake in the front end.The a-arms don't know or care what the frame angle is.He did add rake to it.

[bwamos]

Ahh.. ok so my memory wasn't completly failing me.. lol.

[hasbeenttduner]

Originally posted by bwamos
Ahh.. ok so my memory wasn't completly failing me.. lol.

nope