PDA

View Full Version : Frames holding up?



TheNewn
01-04-2008, 08:50 PM
now that they've been out for a bit and people have been putting time into them, do the frames seem to be holding up for people?

My uncle (in-law?) owns the Can-Am dealership around here, so i may be able to get a good deal on a DS450. After i get out of the army i'd be interested in getting a new quad of some sort. So i'm just looking at the options out there now.

How are those DS450's holding up?

bwamos
01-05-2008, 10:13 AM
I havent heard of any frame issues.
There were some early on comments about one snapping at a MX track, but there hs been no comfirmation of that. IMHO it was your typical they knew a friend who knew a friend who knew a friend who pulled the comment out of their butt. ;)

Probably wont see to many issues w/ the frame. BRP also owns Leer Jet. They know how to make good aluminum frames.

shanester22
01-15-2008, 03:39 PM
rear axle bent after first ride ( 45mins ) and i'm really discouraged

maconu
01-15-2008, 09:40 PM
I haven't had any issues even landing in the flats on a 50 footer. I'm looking forward to racing it this year....

Dan_Guetter
01-16-2008, 01:51 PM
Frames are not snapping nor cracking. I'd love to see someone prove me wrong though.

TheNewn
01-16-2008, 05:32 PM
You didn't mention bending :)

And why would you love the DS450 Frames to be weak?

bwamos
01-18-2008, 05:43 AM
The way the aluminum is manufactured, it is not likley to bend. It's similar to extruded aluminum sections. I would imagine it would flex to a certian threshhold then simply snap or crack like he said, if it did. But that would take a massive hit to do so.

We have heard a lot of people making assumptions about the frames breaking, but have had nothing with any level of substance. I think it was more of a challenge than a wish. ;)

If you do see failures the first ones will most likley be from folks who powder coat their frames. The heat of the curing process can cause the aluminum to loose its some of it's strength.

Pappy
01-18-2008, 07:11 AM
Originally posted by bwamos


If you do see failures the first ones will most likley be from folks who powder coat their frames. The heat of the curing process can cause the aluminum to loose its some of it's strength.

350 degrees is the mark for curing the DS frame components and there are powders that will cure at that temp. I would be more concerned with removal of the factory coating as a burn off cycle would be way to hot and simply blasting would have more of an effect on the aluminum then the cure cycle would.


and its metal, it will and can break.

TheNewn
01-18-2008, 08:30 AM
So Pappy, you can powder coat the DS frames without trouble? It'll stay strong?

Pappy
01-18-2008, 08:37 AM
According to my info yes, as long as the curing parameters are met. I dont see why anyone would want to right now knowing there could be issues that may develop as these machines get out into the market and doing anything to them could void any warranty etc at this point.

You have to realize that the actual curing time at 350 degrees is for roughly 9 -12 minutes. Even on T6061 this is not going to affect the structural integrity of the metal. Test show that it would take over 24 hours at 425 degrees to change the properties of T6061 (Common for a majority of milled aluminum parts used for atv, bike and auto applications) And even at the 24 hour mark, the experts stated it would not be enough of a change to affect the metals strength.

I personally wont coat any until i get the details behind what the frame is actually made of so I can research what effects can be expected during a cure cycle or during prep....just because I am a sissy and dont feel like being the first to jack one up
:p

bwamos
01-18-2008, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by Pappy
350 degrees is the mark for curing the DS frame components and there are powders that will cure at that temp. I would be more concerned with removal of the factory coating as a burn off cycle would be way to hot and simply blasting would have more of an effect on the aluminum then the cure cycle would.


and its metal, it will and can break.

Good info. it does make sense that they would also make lower temp powders, they do make them for plastics afterall. Sounds like the normal powders would be fine also, since they are cured at about 375-400deg?

Also makes perfect sense that the sandblasting and/or the burn off would be a bigger factor. Most of the strength is in the molecular bonding on the surface.

I didn't mean to make it sound like the frame is indestructible, either. Of course someone is going to case a jump, slam into a tree, hit a nasty rock, or simply wear it out through a season of MX, XC torture. All metal will fatigue eventually. Basically I meant to say that it should be no weaker than the majority of the factory frames out there. Only time will tell though. Longevity and the ability to maintenance the frame would be a larger concern than its inital strength.

My view is simply from my vantage point as someone in structural engineering, it appears (at a distant glance) to be designed very well, and I simply meant to indicate that it shouldn't be failing under normal conditions. Usually you can look at a frame and tell areas where there's a bad angle, or potential overstressed locations where theres a point load that's not getting distributed evenly, etc... Of course I deal primarily with 55-60ksi 3-plate steel frames and heavy sheet, so aluminum is not my forte'. ;)

Hope that clarify's my thoughts a bit. Thanks for the insight from someone who knows what they are talking about. ;)

Pappy
01-18-2008, 09:12 AM
I think its a decent design and should be a sound frame. If it really takes off i will have to get the tool to take the frame apart:p

It amazes me how the technology is changing, comparing the DS frame to a standard frames is unreal when you consider what the difference are.

bwamos
01-18-2008, 09:23 AM
I agree.
I think that's why I'm so drawn to it. Being in engineering, to me it's like an artist admiring a painting at the nelson-atkins art gallery.

It's not perfect, but it is certianly a work of art and a much better design than I'm capable of, lol.

To boot, production line assembly should even be more efficent than your standard welded tube frame. Simple modular assembly.

ThePhantomRider
01-18-2008, 10:34 AM
See those are all well thought out and good points. No one ever said, the frame was perfect and indestructible, and I will say that it's probably (time will prove this) the most durable frame currently available. That said, it should spir the other guys to step up, and I know they will.

In the end, we all win, we now have access to quads that were only dreams 10 years ago.

TPR

bwamos
01-18-2008, 10:59 AM
10 years ago, the dream was anything better than a 300ex, warrior, Banshee, or $15,000 to buy a 250R.. lol Or, hoping that the rumor about this new quad with an XR400 motor in it wan't just another myth... ;)

ThePhantomRider
01-18-2008, 11:06 AM
You know it, I bought my 400ex the weekend before Thanksgiving 1998.

TPR