2009 or 2010 Honda 450EX??? What are your thoughts? [Archive]

maxfior

01-01-2008, 05:14 PM

I know that this thread title is completely make-believe, but I was thinking about all the different quads on that market today and wondered what if… So, I wanted to start this thread as something that could be done to the 400EX to make it a really serious performer in the off-road race world, like hair scrambles or GNCC. Now, don’t get me wrong, I’m perfectly happy with how my 400EX is (for the most part) but, we are looking at a quad that really has not been changed since 1999. I know that most people will just say, move to a different quad or get a 450R or a different make like even the new KTM’s, but think about this… What would a slightly changed EX do for you and most importantly what would it do for the sport. So, I ask you all this, what would you like Honda to do to compete with the other more “advanced” quads on the market. If the 400EX would get a major update (since I am a firm believer that they have a great foundation already) what would you like to see? As I stated above, here would be my list of things that I think would bring the EX back to the front lines.
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• Keep the air cooled engine since it is claw hammer reliable but enlarge the surface of the cooling fins. Bring the oil capacity to 3 quarts; add a slightly larger oil cooler and stroke the motor to 450cc or 460cc. Keep the compression to something that would run good on 91 or 94 pump. The motor would also use a fuel injection system instead of carburation.
• Suspension updates all around with a similar setup to the 450R but maybe with triple rates. A-Arms up front would also be wider, nothing drastic, since this EX would still be setup for a woods racer rear end woud be slightly wider as well.
• Built in gauge that would have speed readout, rpm, hours, engine temp and distance traveled.
• Easy to access air box (pop the seat just like the 2008 model year) with high flow filter and pre-filter lid.
• Complete armor (skids) on the bottom of the quad.
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These are just a few ideas that I thought would make the EX compete with the bigger dogs today, but would still make for a friendly, reliable quad that was ready for action if need be. What do you guys think about this and what do you think might happen to the 400EX in the near future, since pretty much all they (Honda) have been doing is adding small updates here and there through-out the life cycle. Who knows, maybe Honda is going to make a complete revamp of the EX in the next few years… Tell everyone what you think should be done?

Max

416exfreak

01-01-2008, 05:24 PM

All of that would jack the price up, and it wouldnt be affordable tot he average everyday weekend warrior.

I like your ideas. If I could change one thing about it, I would bring back the old styling. The new look is just dog ugly IMHO.:ermm:

Honda4lyphe

01-01-2008, 05:31 PM

Honda needs to keep a 400 CC quad for sure. With all the new techonology that has come, i think honda needs to completly revamp the whole entire quad, while keeping the good points like still being able to have mods done to everything, the handling, and the reliability. I have a friend with a kfx 400, compared to mine his seems to much more high tech and it shows as well!

I think honda can get away with keeping it air cooled, but it needs some upgrades. I have no idea how the 2008 suspension will be, but theres another. Other then that, this atv needs a complete overhaul to get up to date! Its been 9 years, and all it has received is a stock sprocket change ( i think) reverse, new plastics, and new stickers.

The 400ex right now is "fine" but it can easly be upgraded so much from the factory. My main concerns are getting it what it needs to pop out a few more ponies and make the rear swingarm more stout. Have you ever seen the kfx 400's swingarm? Its uncrushable! Ive had so many problems with mine, and my friends bike is a year older plus he rides as much as me and he hasnt had one problem with his, im not sure if anyone else has this type of problem but its getting to me.

Also, i love the 2008 look personally, the 05-07 looks like CRAP to me, 99-04 gives me a fuzzy feeling :)

maxfior

01-01-2008, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by 416exfreak
All of that would jack the price up, and it wouldnt be affordable tot he average everyday weekend warrior.

I like your ideas. If I could change one thing about it, I would bring back the old styling. The new look is just dog ugly IMHO.:ermm:

I hear what you are saying about the price and I'm pretty sure that is one of the reasons that Honda kept the EX the way it is... Lets say that the price would go up $500.00. I'm sure it would be way more then that, but lets just say, that since Honda knows how the EX sold the past 8+ years, they know that they might be able to reap a good profit for the long haul... What do you think?
Again, this is all super hypothetical stuff... :)

Max

trx400EXtreme

01-01-2008, 05:37 PM

Honda4lyphe

01-01-2008, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by maxfior
I hear what you are saying about the price and I'm pretty sure that is one of the reasons that Honda kept the EX the way it is... Lets say that the price would go up $500.00. I'm sure it would be way more then that, but lets just say, that since Honda knows how the EX sold the past 8+ years, they know that they might be able to reap a good profit for the long haul... What do you think?
Again, this is all super hypothetical stuff... :)

Max

I guess honda is juiceing out every penny it can get from the 400ex. The honda MSRP for 08 is $5999, while the z400 is $5999 as well. But which is the better performer? I'm sorry, but honda needs to make some fixes before it should be allowed to go for that same price of a Z, it should be $5100-5400

maxfior

01-01-2008, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by Honda4lyphe
I guess honda is juiceing out every penny it can get from the 400ex. The honda MSRP for 08 is $5999, while the z400 is $5999 as well. But which is the better performer? I'm sorry, but honda needs to make some fixes before it should be allowed to go for that same price of a Z, it should be $5100-5400

Yeah, I hear ya on that! I'll post some pics of stock EX's... For the ones that don't like the 2005-07 you might have to close your eyes. :D

Max

maxfior

01-01-2008, 05:50 PM

http://www.nagyspc.com/max/atv/sportrax400exft6.jpg
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http://www.nagyspc.com/max/atv/honda-atv-400ex-06.jpg
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http://www.nagyspc.com/max/atv/TRX400EX_med_01.jpg

M.

Honda4lyphe

01-01-2008, 05:52 PM

Originally posted by maxfior
http://www.nagyspc.com/max/atv/sportrax400exft6.jpg
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http://www.nagyspc.com/max/atv/honda-atv-400ex-06.jpg
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http://www.nagyspc.com/max/atv/TRX400EX_med_01.jpg

M.

Wow..admitively out of those the 99-04 looks the best to me, in real life the 08 is hard to beat though! Our shop finally got some shipped in.

Its like their saying:

1999-2004: Yeah. Im a 400ex.

2005-2007: Yeah. Im a 450r poser.

2008: I'm one bad motha****er.

Ruby Soho

01-01-2008, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by Honda4lyphe
I guess honda is juiceing out every penny it can get from the 400ex. The honda MSRP for 08 is $5999, while the z400 is $5999 as well. But which is the better performer? I'm sorry, but honda needs to make some fixes before it should be allowed to go for that same price of a Z, it should be $5100-5400

people are still buying it for 5999$ so why bring it down?

boosted3g

01-01-2008, 05:53 PM

dohc engine (vtec would also be nice) with fuel injection and aluminum frame. The 400 needs to lose about 30 lbs.

maxfior

01-01-2008, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by Ruby Soho
people are still buying it for 5999$ so why bring it down?

You know what else, the build quality of Honda is way better then the Zuki, IMO. I mean, I still have 20+ year old 3wheelers that were beat within an inch of their life and they still run great all day long and still love a good whooping! :p

M.

Honda4lyphe

01-01-2008, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by Ruby Soho
people are still buying it for 5999$ so why bring it down?

Well..thats because its a honda. If it was 30 years now and honda still sold the ex as is, people would still buy it. Its like choosing a car for a color, you find one car thats at tip top performance but its a certain color, then you find another car with close but not the same performance for the same price but its the color you want. All i can say is, honda has a good name.

maxfior

01-01-2008, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by boosted3g
dohc engine (vtec would also be nice) with fuel injection and aluminum frame. The 400 needs to lose about 30 lbs.

LOL! VTEC would be sweet... but that would make for some wild complications... I could only imagine it, at like 6k the high cam profile would kick in like my S2000! :devil:
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Good thinking though and who knows, maybe the wild Honda R&D guys will look at this thread and impliment some things to the 400EX in the near future (doubt it though... :( )

M.

Hondamaster5505

01-01-2008, 06:22 PM

You guys makin fun of the looks of my 05! :(

lol.

If you think somebody should email this thread to the Honda headquarters, say I

!!! I !!!

boosted3g

01-01-2008, 06:24 PM

Its bound to happen sooner or later. They are playing with the idea in their sport bikes now. They first introduced it in 1988 so i think its about time. I dont mind paying for things if they produce results. Besides honda finance will give you the money, they always pull through when you "need" a new quad. When you think about it though this is the sole reason people build hybrids. I personally think yamaha has the best 450 engine but i like the honda build quality. I have had them for the past 15 years since i started with a 180 3 wheeler.

mbx5

01-01-2008, 06:36 PM

I am new to riding again - used to have a quadracer 250 about 10 years ago...(dam im old)...but I just got a 400ex to rebuild & tinker with.... I dont have a whole lot of experience with it, but here is my take anyway:

1.) Water cooled... I have heard people talking about powre loss w/ the air-cooled engine. Since the Z400 has it, why not? It would be pretty cool to see someone come up with a conversion for the 400 engine - but I do realize that isnt economically feasible. No flaming necessary.

2.) Reverse issue is fixed...mine is an '01 - would be cool to get an add-on reverse kit for the old-school EX's...

3.) Front shocks - maybe standardize on the 450R shocks...something Honda already has that works with the 400ex, and wouldnt impact price much if any.

4.) Looks - the new model looks ok, however I do agree the older models are nicer looking IMO. I think the dual round headlights look pretty sweet.

5.) Swingarm bolt - needs to be a better lubrication system for the swingarm bolt, or different choice of mating materials...I am sure some of you have had them fused to the frame and engine block. I had to plasma cut the bolt out due to poor maintenance from previous owner(s). Then I had to press the remainder out of the engine case on a 20 ton H-frame press....thats insane...I was actually afraid I was going to break the case!!

6.) EFI - not sure about that - could go either way...but the competition has it...

If a new model 400ex came out with those mods included, I would maybe buy it over a scraptor or Z400... My big thing is that I am getting old - I dont and wont race, but want to plunk a round on something worth plunking around on. I want to be able to hang with larger bored bikes on the trails both riding (by that i mean not getting completely schooled and left in the dust) and with reliability, cooling, etc... I need reverse which is why I wont buy a 450... I am a techno-weeny so having liquid cooling and better shocks satisfies my geekness....

maxfior

01-01-2008, 06:43 PM

There are some good ideas posted here, keep it up guys!

M.

Hondamaster5505

01-01-2008, 07:46 PM

heres what id love to see:

1) liquid cooling - a tee bit more power and no overheating issues.

2) no-weld frame - lighter weight and replacable frame sections

3) front shocks - possibly modified 450r shocks or just gas shocks period

4) more color options - red/black white/black ?? How about yellow/black & all black added to the lineup!

5) exhaust - make one like the 450r's that you can buy HRC kits for if you cant afford an exhaust system

6) dash panel - including fuel level/odometer/speedometer/time

That would be plain out cool if they did all that stuff

TheNewn

01-01-2008, 07:47 PM

[i]
The 400ex right now is "fine" but it can easly be upgraded so much from the factory. My main concerns are getting it what it needs to pop out a few more ponies and make the rear swingarm more stout. Have you ever seen the kfx 400's swingarm? Its uncrushable! Ive had so many problems with mine, and my friends bike is a year older plus he rides as much as me and he hasnt had one problem with his, im not sure if anyone else has this type of problem but its getting to me.

Also, i love the 2008 look personally, the 05-07 looks like CRAP to me, 99-04 gives me a fuzzy feeling :) [/B]

Have you seen the chain adjustment on the KFX swing arm? Blows!

I think the only thing the 400EX needs, is some better/adjsutable shocks like the 450R has so it'll better compete with the Z400. Other than that, its bullet proof and works great. If they really needed some more power, maybe raise the compression from 8:1 (or whatever it is) to 10:1. It would still be reliable, but put out another pony or two.

Hondamaster5505

01-01-2008, 07:52 PM

Originally posted by TheNewn
Have you seen the chain adjustment on the KFX swing arm? Blows!

I think the only thing the 400EX needs, is some better/adjsutable shocks like the 450R has so it'll better compete with the Z400. Other than that, its bullet proof and works great. If they really needed some more power, maybe raise the compression from 8:1 (or whatever it is) to 10:1. It would still be reliable, but put out another pony or two.

i didnt think of that one.. they are a really low compression 4-stroke.

Maybe they can use the xr400 gaskets too.

And to add to my list, BETTER HEAD STUDS!

When i install my piston, it better not blow one or ill be pissed!:grr:

maxfior

01-01-2008, 08:16 PM

Yeah a compression bump would help for sure. They could still be problem free and would get some extra ponies out of it. I mean, what's the stock compression on a 400EX vs XR400? There are plenty of XR400's out there still that are running fine and I'm sure the compression ratio is a little better then the EX's. I understand that Honda has a good thing going with the EX and that is why it's been changed so little through out the years, but I think it might be time to give the EX more of a make over then just plastic. Looks are not everything IMO. If they (for 2008) had the new style (or even a choice between the old styles, 99, 05) and a higher comp piston with the better suspension all around it'd sell that much better I think! Little things like that wouldn't cost that much to impliment I think, esp. since they already have the shocks going on the 450R.

Max

trx400EXtreme

01-01-2008, 08:30 PM

heres what i'd like to see....

1. SHOCKS WITH REZZIES!!!!

2. like said above... some kind of HRC kit

3. removable rear grab bar

01-01-2008, 08:37 PM

With a 450cc air cooled even with a big oil cooler and tank it would still be iffy on keeping it cool. Its very do able. Gas shocks are a must on the front even if they arent rezzie just have gas filled shock bodies. I mean since KTM and stuff have made such a step up in the ATV world producing a really race ready quad makes the other companies fall short. I think what is to happen is 400ex will get 450r type shocks and the 450r will get a whole new shock thats even better maybe larger rezzies or more adjustments just to separate themselves. I was hoping for the 2008 they would have done a bigger oil cooler and gas shocks up front but no luck.

TheNewn

01-01-2008, 08:49 PM

One thing i didnt think of at the time, a removable grab bar would be really nice...i've thought about it before it slipped my mind earlier

01-01-2008, 09:07 PM

if it stays air cooled i would just hope for that bigger oil cooler a slightly oil larger tank. It just needs a cam like the xr400 and a little bit higher compression and it will be a factory beast compared to the z400

TheNewn

01-01-2008, 09:25 PM

Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
if it stays air cooled i would just hope for that bigger oil cooler a slightly oil larger tank. It just needs a cam like the xr400 and a little bit higher compression and it will be a factory beast compared to the z400

The Z is water cooled, like 11:1 comp or more. If they raised the comp and oil capacity. "I personally believe" (Miss Teen South Caroline anyone?) that the Z Will still be better. The 400EX needs several things, i think the only the the 400EX has over the Z is easier chain adjustment...

01-01-2008, 09:36 PM

idk Honda is better in general :) speed wise and stuff they are almost the exact same. Plus i like th ejoy of knowing the quad you sit on really started the 4 stroke atv racing in 1999

TheNewn

01-01-2008, 09:51 PM

I used to be Brand loyal but in the end, i believe that loses you money.

I would say the Z has a lot of improvements over the EX which is why everyone wants the EX updated. Most Z owners don't believe so.

The Z has better suspension (arguably better handling because of the suspension), is more powerful, and if you put money into both engines you could get more power out of the Z and because of the water cooling retain more reliability.

In a sport where the manufacturers are constantly improving their products to beat the others. Saying you have what (questionably) bumped the sport into overdrive is only saying you have the oldest (and in this case most out dated) model out.

I take no responsibility for anything i say :)

01-01-2008, 09:57 PM

Originally posted by TheNewn
I used to be Brand loyal but in the end, i believe that loses you money.

I would say the Z has a lot of improvements over the EX which is why everyone wants the EX updated. Most Z owners don't believe so.

The Z has better suspension (arguably better handling because of the suspension), is more powerful, and if you put money into both engines you could get more power out of the Z and because of the water cooling retain more reliability.

In a sport where the manufacturers are constantly improving their products to beat the others. Saying you have what (questionably) bumped the sport into overdrive is only saying you have the oldest (and in this case most out dated) model out.

I take no responsibility for anything i say :)

I'm 100% comfortable knowing i may not have the fastest newest technological atv out there. I love the 400ex for lots of reasons. Biggest is the year they 1st released it when I was much younger I said to everyone 1 day i will have one of those cause it looks awesome. The only quads I would care to own would be the 250r, 400ex, and a 450r. 1st 2 are yesolder and not as updated as some other quads but to me I look at them as wow those are the greatest quads because they were what almost everyone used in older MX and such days and are respected to me at least. 450r is fast but not for me. 400ex is all i want and need. The 1st few weeks when I finally got a 2004 400ex which was in late january 2007 i would wake up and feel great knowing i have the quad i always dreamed of owning.

Hondamaster5505

01-01-2008, 10:02 PM

I agree.

The 400ex has enough pep when its piped to have fun on straights.

I ALWAYS know its gonna start when i want it to, and run flawlessly for me all day.

It has great low end for trails and enough punch for hillclimbing.

Its a simple motor, which means less to go wrong.

Its just a great all-around quad that you cant get too over-your-head on but still have a blast doing just about anything!

jesseweaver

01-02-2008, 04:31 AM

Originally posted by TheNewn
The Z is water cooled, like 11:1 comp or more. If they raised the comp and oil capacity. "I personally believe" (Miss Teen South Caroline anyone?) that the Z Will still be better. The 400EX needs several things, i think the only the the 400EX has over the Z is easier chain adjustment...

lmao i still laugh everytime i watch that.

maxfior

01-02-2008, 07:51 AM

Originally posted by jesseweaver
lmao i still laugh everytime i watch that.

I giggled too when I saw that is morning. I am glad that we are all having fun on this thread and not turning it into flame wars... Having said all that, I'll have to find someone with a Z and see how it compares. I think Dirt Wheels did a write up about the Z and said that they liked it a lot. They are going to do a shoot out later on this year when they get an 80 EX. One thing that I remembered them saying was that the swinger was scary. I think it was Jan or Feb issue. Interesting...

Max

LMiller

01-02-2008, 08:21 AM

Aluminum frame, RC51 engine, and cupholders.:D

Seriously, if I was going to buy another 400, it would hands-down be the Z. Look at what you get for the same price as the honda...piggyback shocks, liquid cooling, etc. The EX needs a better frame, it needs to lose some weight, it needs better suspension, air cooled is ok since it's dead *** reliable. BAsically, it needs to be lighter, stronger, faster, better handling, and the price point needs to stay down. With 450r's going for 6500 or so (I priced out a spankin new LTR for 6600 OTD) the 400 needs to be inexpensive enough to make it's purchase practical when compared to the 450's.

Also, the displacement needs to stay 400. There are a lot of entry level buyers out there that fit perfectly with a 400cc bike. The 400cc bikes perfectly fill the gap between the small quads and the race bikes.

I love my 400, and even when I go to the LTR or KTM, I'll never get rid of it. but for all those new buyers out there, who aren't going to race, it's the perfect size. The EX just needs to be the Z's equal in all things, not just price.

maxfior

01-02-2008, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by LMiller
Aluminum frame, RC51 engine, and cupholders.:D

LOL! Could you imagine an RC51 engine in an EX, talk about sick power, but then it would weigh like 800 pounds, :(

Max

gcart2

01-02-2008, 12:35 PM

i kinda like the idea of an 450EX. i love the geometry of mine (400ex) and power of the 450's. they could have 450r witch is what the R is noew and and 450ex witch would be a hybrid.. basically a factory hybrid. basically a 400ex with 450 shocks and most importantly motor. however doing so i believe they shoould keep the 400exand make the "450ex" a new quad..

sc400ex_rider

01-02-2008, 12:46 PM

i dont like how all the new quads rear fenders look like wings and front of the yamaha looks like a space ship. i still laugh when one pulls up.

maxfior

01-02-2008, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by gcart2
i kinda like the idea of an 450EX. i love the geometry of mine (400ex) and power of the 450's. they could have 450r witch is what the R is noew and and 450ex witch would be a hybrid.. basically a factory hybrid. basically a 400ex with 450 shocks and most importantly motor. however doing so i believe they shoould keep the 400exand make the "450ex" a new quad..

Hey, there is nothing wrong with choices and options, just look at all the crazy bikes you can get from KTM :)

Max

gcart2

01-02-2008, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by maxfior
Hey, there is nothing wrong with choices and options, just look at all the crazy bikes you can get from KTM :)

Max

i agree. but a aircooled 450 dosent sound to pleasnt.

maxfior

01-02-2008, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by gcart2
i agree. but a aircooled 450 dosent sound to pleasnt.

Yeah, but it could be done... The XR 500 and XR600R's ran for a long time, and they had wicked lowend... Plus, they would keep your legs warm in the winter riding months :p

M.

TheNewn

01-02-2008, 01:14 PM

They already have the XR650 Motor, they should have put the aircooled version into a quad. It would basically have been a 400EX on steroids. Instead, they made an extremely ugly (unknown as of yet handling) IRS 'sport' quad using a version of the XR650 liquid cooled motor.

Someone needs to pull their head out...

LMiller

01-02-2008, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by maxfior
LOL! Could you imagine an RC51 engine in an EX, talk about sick power, but then it would weigh like 800 pounds, :(

Max

Not at all. There's a yfz chassis based quad with a turbo RC51 motor in dirtwheels from a couple months ago, it weighed in the 500's. 200HP....

maxfior

01-02-2008, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by TheNewn
They already have the XR650 Motor, they should have put the aircooled version into a quad. It would basically have been a 400EX on steroids. Instead, they made an extremely ugly (unknown as of yet handling) IRS 'sport' quad using a version of the XR650 liquid cooled motor.

Someone needs to pull their head out...

Yeah, no doubt, it'll be interesting to see what others think of the 700XX... I do think the IRS will be on all the sport quads at some time... Who knows... It'd be interesting to know the weight difference with the XR600R and XR650L engines, if the weight wouldn't be too much it would be pretty cool to see a XR600 engine in the EX frame, I'm pretty sure that someone has done that before, or at least I think it was a 650L motor. The weight would be the key, who knows maybe the 400EX engine is the perfect amount of weight for an aircooled single. Anything bigger and the thing might not handle too well...

Max

maxfior

01-02-2008, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by LMiller
Not at all. There's a yfz chassis based quad with a turbo RC51 motor in dirtwheels from a couple months ago, it weighed in the 500's. 200HP....

Yikes! That would beat a banshee! ;)

Max

gcart2

01-02-2008, 02:54 PM

i still want a factory 450 400ex hybrid. on side note i think im gonna switchto suzuki. ltr a450 with cherry bomb no core or air lid is a race bike. and to get fancy fox floats and a yoshi and its bad.

XXXRACER165

01-02-2008, 04:25 PM

I like the idea of a 450EX but still, I dont think riders from a Raptor 350 or 300EX would feel comfortable jumping right up to a 450 or a 600/650 etc... I think Honda just needs to up the compression put a bigger cam in and redesign the head/portwork for more power. Swap the stock EX shocks out for the R's stockers and lose about 75lbs. Then you'll have the ultimate middleweight champ.

maxfior

01-02-2008, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by XXXRACER165
I like the idea of a 450EX but still, I dont think riders from a Raptor 350 or 300EX would feel comfortable jumping right up to a 450 or a 600/650 etc... I think Honda just needs to up the compression put a bigger cam in and redesign the head/portwork for more power. Swap the stock EX shocks out for the R's stockers and lose about 75lbs. Then you'll have the ultimate middleweight champ.

Yeah, good point about that. I didn't think about things like that. Going from something like a Warrior or 300EX to a 450 or 600 would be quite dangerous if the rider was not pretty skilled to handle the machine. Having said that, your ideas are sound, but it would great if you could pick and choose a little bit. Honda could still make the box stock 400EX and then have a 450EX or 600EX with mild cam, compression, suspension, etc for those that would want that upgrade or option... Maybe they could make it an HRC option(s) or something... :)

Max

Jaybird

01-02-2008, 05:35 PM

Why not just buy a 450R ?

boosted3g

01-02-2008, 05:49 PM

Some guys like myself need a dual purpose quad. I need it to be comfortable when trail riding with the family but be able to raise hell when i am with friends. The 450r cannot do that, its great at the raising hell but i could ride it all day. Thats why our YFZ450 didnt last a year, it dont ride trails well.

maxfior

01-02-2008, 06:05 PM

Yeah, I agree with what Boosted said, I could make a 450R work on trails, just like I've made a motocross only bike work on trails, but if the EX had a bit more, it would really come back out on top for a woods machine. I think Honda just needs to add a few things to make it compete with the other makes... But, I'm still happy with what my EX does and I'm sure I'll keep modding it here and there to make it more suited for what I like to do, just like everyone else...

Max

yellow400ex05

01-02-2008, 06:32 PM

well if you put it this way it kind of changes the perspective in a good way.

If the z400 is so much more advanced and better power wise and capability, why does a air cooled 80's tech 400ex stick withing a few inches of it in performance wise?

There are still more mods you can buy for an EX cheaper that add almost as much or more than what the z400 would do although the z400 still can make more power when heavily modified just think about it a cammed, bored, piston, port, polish, exhaust, air filter, carb, etc, etc z440 and 440ex all maxed out the z400 would make what 5-7 more HP but hold it better while the 400ex although gets hot after a while still sticks with it well enough that it probably doesn't really feel as powerful and is noticeable loss can still hang with it by probably half a quad behind when loss of power come around in say 75 degree weather..

some gas shocks a more of high performance cam bump up the compression to at least 10:8:1 and your set to be competitive in sales again just building that rock solid reputation even more.

Although I don't think suzuki's z400 will ever ever outsell the 400ex in sales. there just gobs of them out there tired and proven and new and still ripp'n it up, i know for every z400 around here there's at least 2 400ex's at least a couple years back but the odds are still almost the same.

TheNewn

01-02-2008, 07:49 PM

I think there are two big reasons why the 400EX is out selling the Z400.

1. Most people do no research when buying a quad. I know personally a few people that just bought whatever the dealer told them to, or whatever they saw first. If they did research and knew what they wanted, they'd probably pick the Z400, especially because it costs the same.

2. Brand loyalty. WAY too many people are stubborn and don't consider anything thats not brand X. I'm sure they had a great experience with Honda or something back in the day, and by GOD they're going to have a Honda this time as well. Even if its not as good as some of the competition.

Don't get me wrong, i own a 400EX, and its great for trails. But I'd rather have a Z400 after riding a friend of mines a few times. And it was an 03. Not even the upgraded (suspension wise, among other things) 05 and up.

01-02-2008, 07:54 PM

I am brand loyal read my little "live life the Honda way" buy a Honda you cant go wrong. it may not be the best but it sure is hell is built the best and most reliable. Dont tell me i'm wrong or anything because you really cant go wrong with a Honda. They may not be making the most power or best suspension in some cases but in others they are better overall.

TheNewn

01-02-2008, 08:01 PM

Clearly you have not owned many quads. I wont tell you you're wrong, but i will tell you you're not right.

Honda does make very nice quads. So does yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, KTM, Polaris (sometimes..), and Can-Am.

Go ahead and tell me Honda is better all around after you've stepped off a Rincon and onto a Grizzly 700, or better yet, an Outlander 650. Not to mention the Outlander 800...

01-02-2008, 08:07 PM

i'm talking sport quads i will always go with Honda. 4x4 there are plenty of others I would rather have. KTM is out of the picture only because of their price tag.

maxfior

01-03-2008, 12:19 PM

I think for the most part, HondaFoxRider is saying the same thing I'm thinking... Honda does make one of the most reliable quads (and just about all bikes and quads) on the planet. Not only have I been a Honda fan for most of my life, but I have some Honda's that are 30+ years old that still run excellent. I'm not disputing that other makes don't make good quality stuff, but Honda is among the best with fit and finish. The only one that comes next IMO would be KTM. Then maybe Yamaha. Honda set the bar years ago, and that is proven with anyone that you ask who's been around for more then 25 years. There might be better quads out there for sport riding and what not, mudding and dragging, but it's pretty hard to beat what Honda has done for the industry. I don't want to start any flame wars and this is just my $0.02, so take it how you wish, but I can see 20 years from now, I'll look back and see 400EX's on eBay or Craigslist that are still running great... Just like my ratty old 3wheelers from the late 70's and 80's.

Max

01-03-2008, 12:33 PM

my uncle has the same 3 wheeler and 200sx or w/e since he was a kid and they still ride them and they still run. The 3 wheeler has the same spark plug since 80 something and still runs no problem. How many 25 year old yamaha's have you seen they still run no problem and have all the original parts?

maxfior

01-03-2008, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
my uncle has the same 3 wheeler and 200sx or w/e since he was a kid and they still ride them and they still run. The 3 wheeler has the same spark plug since 80 something and still runs no problem. How many 25 year old yamaha's have you seen they still run no problem and have all the original parts?

I'll tell you what man, most of my 3wheelers are still running on the same junk since they were born... Same plugs, tires, clutches, etc. Sometimes (from sitting) I'll have to clean the carbs and depending on how they were stored, you have to watch for rust in the tank, but for the most part they are ready to roll... I had to replace the clutch (finally) in my 200s last season, but that thing was from 1985. Don't get me wrong though, I have seen some Yammie's last a pretty long time too. They build a good product too, but still lack the attention to detail that Honda had, esp. back in the 80's. I can remember many times taking my Tri-Z out for a good rip, that thing lasted a long time and I knew many others that had 'em, they were good two storokes, on par with the 250R, but not as good. Honda still paved the way with 3wheelers for the most part though... Just my $0.02 of course :)

Max

BlasterEaten250

01-03-2008, 01:24 PM

I think all that really needs to be changed is some better front shocks and efi. The efi won't happen for a while though.

jesseweaver

01-03-2008, 01:33 PM

my friend has a lower 80s honda 250sx that still has almost all of the original parts. we ran it for a while, then it wouldnt run cause we didnt realize but the inside of the tank was really rusty. all we did was buy a new tank, and clean the carb, and now it runs fine. i agree that hondas are the most reliable, and thats why i have one.

gcart2

01-03-2008, 01:44 PM

Originally posted by TheNewn
I think there are two big reasons why the 400EX is out selling the Z400.

1. Most people do no research when buying a quad. I know personally a few people that just bought whatever the dealer told them to, or whatever they saw first. If they did research and knew what they wanted, they'd probably pick the Z400, especially because it costs the same.

2. Brand loyalty. WAY too many people are stubborn and don't consider anything thats not brand X. I'm sure they had a great experience with Honda or something back in the day, and by GOD they're going to have a Honda this time as well. Even if its not as good as some of the competition.

Don't get me wrong, i own a 400EX, and its great for trails. But I'd rather have a Z400 after riding a friend of mines a few times. And it was an 03. Not even the upgraded (suspension wise, among other things) 05 and up.

its the motor. its why alll hondas stuff is "the best". nothing they have is special except the motor. i mean... its a honda.

maxfior

01-03-2008, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by jesseweaver
my friend has a lower 80s honda 250sx that still has almost all of the original parts. we ran it for a while, then it wouldnt run cause we didnt realize but the inside of the tank was really rusty. all we did was buy a new tank, and clean the carb, and now it runs fine. i agree that hondas are the most reliable, and thats why i have one.

:D

That's a good 3wheeler! Suspension of course sucks, but you can whoop those things all day long, they love it! I'm pretty sure they are shaft drive too, aka, no chain to pop in the mud hole! ;)

Max

jesseweaver

01-03-2008, 04:22 PM

yea they have a drive shaft. we've had that thing completly submerged in water, nothing was sticking out of the water, and it started 10 mins later and ran fine the rest of the day. and you can hold wheelies as long as you want to. and its easy and fun to do 2 wheel turns then pull it up and go on 1 wheel for a little bit. it looks pretty sweet.

they dont have any suspension though, and theyre way to easy to roll. ive ate it pretty bad a couple times, and my friend has rolled it countless times, and broke quite a few bones.