how the ds450 runs

[kwik man]

I got my ds450 on 11-28-07 it is week on TQ it has a power band
like a two stroke it likes mid and high rpms when i race my wife's
2008 stock kfx 450 it will beat it by 1 1/2 quads when i race my 2002 stock cannondalethe dale will beat the ds 450 by 3 1/2 quads the ds 450 is fun to ride the back end of the bike is light you can pitch the back end with easy the ds feels like the yzf 450
when you sit on the quad the trans has a good feel to it. i think i will in stall a new exhaust pipe and cut the pink wire and set it in race mode this should bring the TQ up

[LTR450_#67]

Yeah ok.....um how old are you. You make sense but use some punctuation next time you type.

[quadwanter]

from the little that i rode Punk'd's new bike, it felt the same way. It seemed to have more power in the higher rpm's. Loosing to a kfx, i find that hard to believe as the ds felt pretty damn powerful stock, we'll see in a few days.

i cant wait to see what the rossier, programer and intake does. Probably gonna put a woopin on some bikes.

[bwamos]

I'm sure they were not bone stock like the DS was.

I thought it read that the DS beat the KFX, and the Dale beat the DS.

Hard to tell though.

[450raider]

id just like to say before this turns into a "other 450 bashin thread" that as far as the kawi goes the stock gearing on them isnt meant for wide open blazing drag races, now im not sure on the dale/atk cause ive never had one or anything, thats all

[kwik man]

This is what I have found from Rossier Engineering this is from
there web sight.
Our pipe and cold air kit have given this already powerful quad a 6 H.P. gain at the previous peak of 7800 RPMs and a staggering 9 H.P. gain at 9,000, where the stock pipe has already fallen off. This means 1 less shift down that long straightaway. From 3,000 RPM to 7,000 RPM we are getting 4 to 7 H.P. across the board, and the torque peak has gone from 28 FT. LBS to 33! All this with just a pipe and filter.

[bwamos]

Doesn't sound too far off. The HMF Pipe w/ remap (no intake kit) peaks at 43.2hp @ 8500rpms.

[ThePhantomRider]

When all is said and done and you take all the 450's, add a pipe, filter and do some fuel/air mix changes, I'm betting people will find that the DS will make more power almost everywhere.

Here's the thing, Down low, Can-Am showed the Honda made 1-1.5 HP more from the bottom to the midrange, the Can-Am takes over and goes to the moon....

The gains across the board generally add a bit more top end for the Honda, the Can-Am makes up ground in the bottom end and picks up tons at the top end.

Now, the key is the power to weight ratio...suddenly 1 hp on a bike that weighs more is all but nullified.

That way in race trim, the typical wet weight of a TRX 450r is about 400LBS, I believe the DS with all the race goodies attached and full of fuel and fluids is 25-30 LBS less, so where a full race Honda motor pushes out around 67 HP, they could use 65 in the DS and have the same PTWR while being a bit more reliable since they can push that motor to 70+ with no problem.

TPR

[joedirt]

What 450 are they getting 70hp out of? Is it being used for mx or drags?

[atvtrailrider]

Joe Byrd is running just barely under 70hp. But he only runs them about 2 motos

[joedirt]

I've heard about them getting 70hp on the dyno but the torque drops too much for it to be a good race engine.

[bwamos]

Originally posted by ThePhantomRider
When all is said and done and you take all the 450's, add a pipe, filter and do some fuel/air mix changes, I'm betting people will find that the DS will make more power almost everywhere.
TPR

Not sure if you've seen it, but if you consolidate HMF's dyno runs onto one sheet what you can see very close to that. The honda still has a bit more torque down low (higher hp at low rpm's usually equals higher torque). The LT-R450 was the only one run w/ airbox modifications so it was naturally on a different curve. The rest are pipe & rejet/remap on stock quads.

Disclaimer: info was simply gelaned from their posted hp outputs at the given rpms. 23 @ 4k, 24.3 @ 4.5k etc.. Also all were obviously run on different days. But, they all would have been run on their dyno inside of their shop (semi-controlled temperatures). I can't attest to their accuracy, but it's the closest thing we've got to all the 450's/525's being run on the same dyno w/o bias being thrown in to try to prove someones modified atv has more power than someone elses stock quad.

I did not try to smooth the curve, I simply drew point to point since that was the data I had.

[GE4x4]

I think that grapgh is about as accurate you will see for all modles due to from coming from the same dyno. There are a few companies who seriously inflate numbers to make the pipes look good. HMF has been pretty accurate. The only issue I had with HMF is they don't seem to put much effort in fine tuneing the Outlaw. It's been no secrete they are lean from the factory and a JD jet kit does wonders. Yet they put there pipe on with no rejetting. They re-jet the ktm, but not the Outlaw. Mayby they want everyone to think the KTM puts out more.

[LTR450_#67]

Originally posted by GE4x4
I think that grapgh is about as accurate you will see for all modles due to from coming from the same dyno. There are a few companies who seriously inflate numbers to make the pipes look good. HMF has been pretty accurate. The only issue I had with HMF is they don't seem to put much effort in fine tuneing the Outlaw. It's been no secrete they are lean from the factory and a JD jet kit does wonders. Yet they put there pipe on with no rejetting. They re-jet the ktm, but not the Outlaw. Mayby they want everyone to think the KTM puts out more.

I thought that it was weird that the the 2 525's weren't closer than they were.

[GE4x4]

With the Outlaw 525s, they put a slip on with no lid on the airbox, but did not rejet. There isn't a single quad where you can do that without rejetting to get the most out of. It still got a gain, but not near as much as they should. In fact many stock are rejetting to a 155 or 160 and it comes stock with a 148. You know there the same, because both had a peak of 38.7hp stock.

[bwamos]

I agree the Outlaw numbers look a bit funky.
The numbers should be about the same on the Solid axle outlaw which is what is shown. The IRS version would naturally be a bit lower due to the extra weight of moving parts.

Also as a note the KTM numbers were for every 0.5k rpm increment whereas the Outlaw S numbers were every 1.0k increment so it's missing some of the curvature that should be in there. But, I used what I had without fudging anything.

The Outlaw S could also be running a more mild cam?

[ThePhantomRider]

Also remember the power numbers for the Outlaw and Outlaw S are different because they have very different airboxes. The S has a smaller airbox because the rear shock mount takes up space so it has been noted that the power is different because of that fact.


TPR

[GE4x4]

Originally posted by ThePhantomRider
Also remember the power numbers for the Outlaw and Outlaw S are different because they have very different airboxes. The S has a smaller airbox because the rear shock mount takes up space so it has been noted that the power is different because of that fact.


TPR

This was between the ktm525 and Outlaw 525s

[ThePhantomRider]

Again the airbox volume is different, the KTM as I understand has more volume than the Outlaw.

That makes for needed jetting adjustments, thus a different power curve.


TPR

[GE4x4]

Originally posted by ThePhantomRider
Again the airbox volume is different, the KTM as I understand has more volume than the Outlaw.

That makes for needed jetting adjustments, thus a different power curve.


TPR

You would think the stock HP would also be different, but both have peak of 38.7 stock at 7900-8000 rpm

[bwamos]

Not necessarily. In stock form the intake could flow enough air since the exhaust is the restriction. Once you open up the exhaust it is possible that the intake becomes the restriction.

On my 330ex it is also the intake that has become my restriction. Can't really open it up any more either due to the rear shock mount to seat clearance.

Sorry I got this thread derailed.. lol.

[GE4x4]

Very true, but again having the same stock hp also shows the KTM is a bit restrictive. But when ever you take a lid off, much more air is going in both no matter what. Have you ever put a pipe on and have no lid and expect stock jetting to give you the best performance? I've never.:confused: