440 Kit

[EXinMB]

IM PUTTIN A WISECO 89MM PISTON KIT IN MY 02 400EX TO BUMP IT TO 440CC JUST WONDERING IF ANYONE ELSE THATS DONE THIS HAD TO MACHINE THE CASES AND IF THATS SOMETHIN YOU CAN JUST DO YOURSELF OR IF THATS GOTTA BE BROUGHT TO A MACHINE SHOP.

ALSO THE KIT I HAVE IS A 12.5:1 COMPRESSION AND IM GONNA USE A HOTCAM STG 2 CAM. WILL THERE BE A PROBLEM WITH THE VALVES HITTING THE PISTON?

[416exfreak]

You wont have a problem with the valves hitting the piston unless you put a stroker crank and a normal piston in it.

Also, your gonna have to take the cylinder to a machine shop and let them bore the sleeve out of it and press a newer, larger sleeve into it.

If I were you, id also invest in a good clutch (barnett works great) and a larger oil tank.

Also if your piston has 12.5:1 compression, your gonna need to run straight 110-113 octane race gas. Welcome to the world of paying 8-10 bucks a gallon my friend.:p

It smells good though....:D

[416exfreak]

Oh, and one more thing. Ditch the hotcam.

Buy yourself a webcam. I have a stage 4 billet cam. I also had to install some harfaced rockers, which wasn't hard at all. I did it on the kitchen table.

Ive had a hotcam before...it makes it sound better, but it really didnt give me that much more power. I could tell a difference with the Webcam.

And you may also wanna let your machine shop port the intake and exhaust ports. Give the head a valve job too. This stuff isnt all necesary, btu Ive built this engine twice, and I recomend it.

I sent my engine to Duncan to let them freshen it up and do some more portwork.:devil:

[scruff_mcruff]

Originally posted by 416exfreak


Also if your piston has 12.5:1 compression, your gonna need to run straight 110-113 octane race gas. Welcome to the world of paying 8-10 bucks a gallon my friend.:p

It smells good though....:D

so wrong. im tired of seeing this bad info. the only thing 110 is doing for you is hiding how bad your tune up is. stock 450rs come with 12:1 and can run on 91 so 12.5:1 is fine on 93-94 if you have it. and alot of the 250f's run 12.5:1 from the factory.

[EXinMB]

well my buddy has a predator wit some mods and he runs premium pump gas with octane boost and he hasnt had problems

[Blown 331]

Originally posted by scruff_mcruff
so wrong. im tired of seeing this bad info. the only thing 110 is doing for you is hiding how bad your tune up is. stock 450rs come with 12:1 and can run on 91 so 12.5:1 is fine on 93-94 if you have it. and alot of the 250f's run 12.5:1 from the factory.

Air cooled engines run hotter than liquid cooled engines. Liquid cooled engines can get by with higher compression ratios on pump gas than an air cooled engine can.

[XXXRACER165]

I run premium (92) in my 440 for years now, even on the hottest days it's fine with 12.5:1 compression. And I got the same cam too, you got nuffin to worry about

[416exfreak]

Ive posted my experiences after building 2 440ex engines.

My information isnt bad in any way. Air cooled engines require AIR to cool them. When your on an MX track revving it to the moon and not getting very much air across it, then race gas in a necesity.

Dont compare new school engines with old school engines. That just apples to oranges.

If you dont beleive me, go put a tank of nothing but 93-94 in your engine and run it arounda track for half an hour. Tell me when your header gets done glowing.;)

Also, my tune up is A ok bud. Its nto my tune up anyways. Its Lenny Duncans. Maybe you should call him and tell him that his tune ups arent working right.

:rolleyes:

[honda8&3]

Originally posted by scruff_mcruff
so wrong. im tired of seeing this bad info. the only thing 110 is doing for you is hiding how bad your tune up is. stock 450rs come with 12:1 and can run on 91 so 12.5:1 is fine on 93-94 if you have it. and alot of the 250f's run 12.5:1 from the factory.

Ya my buddy has a high-comp wiseco in his KX250F and he runs 93 and sometimes when his dad has it for his drag bike he runs VP Race Fuel. 110 definetly is way too high for a 12.5:1 piston:huh :eek2:

[416exfreak]

Originally posted by honda8&3
Ya my buddy has a high-comp wiseco in his KX250F and he runs 93 and sometimes when his dad has it for his drag bike he runs VP Race Fuel. 110 definetly is way too high for a 12.5:1 piston:huh :eek2:

Thats a LIQUID cooled engine. Even when that 250f isnt moving, the water pump is moving qater throughout the engine, cooling it.

on an AIR cooled engine (440ex) there is nothing but air to cool it.
Higher octane gas detonates slower, which ultimately equalls more power, cooler running temperatures and a longer engine life.

After having 2 of these engines, I think I know just a wee bit about them.

[Got Boost]

Please tell me why I have a built to the nuts 440 and have built almost a dozen stroker, big bore ex's and we never ran over 100, and have never had any issue at any altitude, temp?

[416exfreak]

Originally posted by Got Boost
Please tell me why I have a built to the nuts 440 and have built almost a dozen stroker, big bore ex's and we never ran over 100, and have never had any issue at any altitude, temp?

How long did your engines live? Out of curiosity.:)

[project400ex19]

Originally posted by 416exfreak
Thats a LIQUID cooled engine. Even when that 250f isnt moving, the water pump is moving qater throughout the engine, cooling it.

on an AIR cooled engine (440ex) there is nothing but air to cool it.
Higher octane gas detonates slower, which ultimately equalls more power, cooler running temperatures and a longer engine life.

After having 2 of these engines, I think I know just a wee bit about them.

I agree with you man! I wouldn't even consider running pump gas in a 12:5:1 even a 11:1 is iffy, I would run a 50/50 mix w/ a 11:1

[scruff_mcruff]

Originally posted by 416exfreak
Ive posted my experiences after building 2 440ex engines.

My information isnt bad in any way. Air cooled engines require AIR to cool them. When your on an MX track revving it to the moon and not getting very much air across it, then race gas in a necesity.

Dont compare new school engines with old school engines. That just apples to oranges.

If you dont beleive me, go put a tank of nothing but 93-94 in your engine and run it arounda track for half an hour. Tell me when your header gets done glowing.;)

Also, my tune up is A ok bud. Its nto my tune up anyways. Its Lenny Duncans. Maybe you should call him and tell him that his tune ups arent working right.

:rolleyes: im not comparing apples and oranges at all. you know what it takes to cool a water cooled engine? AIR. If no air gets to the radiator its not cooling the water which in turn wont cool the engine.

and i do ride around a track for 3-4 30 min sessions on sat and sun on almost every weekend on 93 at just above sea level and its been 11 months since the last freshening up. so i'd say thats not too shabby.

If you came from any other type of real racing, you would see what little ALOT of the big time "engine builders" in this industry really know.

[scruff_mcruff]

Originally posted by 416exfreak

on an AIR cooled engine (440ex) there is nothing but air to cool it.
Higher octane gas detonates slower, which ultimately equalls more power, cooler running temperatures and a longer engine life.

After having 2 of these engines, I think I know just a wee bit about them.


theres air and oil to cool them not just air. and Higher octane fuels do take longer to burn, they also take more power to burn, so if your burning at a minimum 12 extra octane in your case, your robbing that much power from the engine. not to mention im sure you didnt advance the timing to give the extra fuel longer to burn. if you run the correct fuel for your compression setup you dont need to change the timing much at all.

the problem i see with what you know is the sources it came from, if you dont get good info to begin with you go along thinking your bad info is the right answer. I know ive been there, i was at a high level of engine building and getting info from numerous people from nascar, indy, and NHRA, ive gotten both good and bad info from all of them, but anyone who is at a high level of tuning and building will agree you dont use more octane/fuel than you need to safely run the engine.

Vp makes an unleaded 98, try that as i think thats the highest fuel needed for any dirtbike or atv setup ive seen, unless you get into the oxygenated fuels.

[dudeman_29]

Ok lets bring some facts from www.torcoracingfuels.com into this thread. This is the race fuels i run in my 440ex and we run in our dirt late model. Torco is based in decatur michigan and owns a drag track in martin michigan. I am in no way sponsered or affelated (sp?) with torco in anyway they just make a great fuel that i use.

TORCO RACE FUELS all around racing fuel incorporating burn control technology. Low flash point fuel stocks combined with state of the art synergistic additive package. Designed to protect static compression ratios up to 13:1 @ 8000 rpm. Drag Cars, Road Racers, Bracket Racers, Snowmobiles, Motorcycles, Race Boats, and Go-carts. Protect your investment. Protect your Standings.

MACH 110
Typical Properties
Color : Purple
Specific Gravity : .719
Pump Octane (R+M)/2 : 110
MON : 108.5
RON : 116
Reid Vapor Pressure : 7
Distillation : F
10% Evap : 160
90% Evap : 211
End Point : 246
DIELECTRIC : - 1

Stock car, late model, modified sportsman, enduro racing, drag racing. This is a superior fuel for most 2-cycle applications. Motocross, snowmobiles, ATV, personal watercraft, and off shore race boats. Meets the demanding requirements to prevent loss of power over time and conditions. Engines that regularly run in excess of 7000 RPM. Designed to protect static compression ratios up to 14:1.

MACH 112
Typical Properties
Color : BLUE
Specific Gravity : .719
Pump Octane (R+M)/2 : 112
MON : 109.5
RON : 118
Reid Vapor Pressure : 7
Distillation : F
10% Evap : 140
90% Evap : 219
End Point : 249
DIELECTRIC : -1.1


if any more FACTS are wanted please feel free to ask and i can find the FACTS for you.

[ridered92]

ok i selling my 300ex and buying a 400ex change the gear with a pipe and ride it all summer and get use to it then come winter time next year i was going to put a 440kit in it for fst or cwr my qiestion is am i going to have to run race gas because i want to be able to run regular pump gas

[Big - D Racing]

my general rule, below 11:1 run premium pump, 11:1 to 12:1 run 50/50 race fuel and premium pump, above 12:1 straight race fuel.

I am not arguing with anyone, you all bring up good points and even some bad ones that simply don't make much sense. Regardless that is my all around opinion for every bike, to run optimally and safe.

P.s. I never heard of race fuel causing you to have less power. I heard of it not having an effect in terms of power, but not a negative effect besides the hole it burns in your wallet.

My race fuel of choice is VP C-12 ( I pay close to $10 a gallon for it now I remember just a couple years ago I was only paying $5.75 a gallon for it) it is a leaded 108 octane race fuel. And is one of the best all around race fuels you can buy. Duncan Racing stands by it and runs it in most of their race bikes.

The cooling affect of race fuel is not because of the higher octane numbers it is because it is leaded. I know there are some that aren't such as VP Ultimate 4, which I believe is a 100 Octane Unleaded. Most race fuels are leaded.

[GPracer2500]

There's so much chest pounding and flat-out bad information in this thread I don't even know where to begin.

[416exfreak]

Everyone must start somewhere!:p

And for scruff_mcruff, once again, call Lenny Duncan and tell him that his info is bad. After all, he's only been building 4-stroke engines for some 10+ years now....:ermm:

[maxfior]

There is some good discussion here, but if you are intrigued still, I'd recommend looking at the wiki of Octane Rating, it's pretty interesting to read if you've got some time.
---link---
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
---link---

Max

[scruff_mcruff]

Originally posted by 416exfreak
Everyone must start somewhere!:p

And for scruff_mcruff, once again, call Lenny Duncan and tell him that his info is bad. After all, he's only been building 4-stroke engines for some 10+ years now....:ermm:

Call him yourself, your the one that believes in him. ask him a few questions about it. heres a good one to ask, whats the optimal piston design for flow and burn?



a quick part i pulled from the wikipedia article.

The power output of an engine depends on the energy content of its fuel, and this bears no simple relationship to the octane rating. A common understanding that may apply in only limited circumstances amongst petrol consumers is that adding a higher octane fuel to a vehicle's engine will increase its performance and/or lessen its fuel consumption; this may be false under most conditions — while engines perform best when using fuel with the octane rating for which they were designed and any increase in performance by using a fuel with a different octane rating is minimal or even imaginary, unless there are carbon hotspots, fuel injector clogging or other conditions that may cause a lean situation that can cause knocking that are more common in high mileage vehicles, which would cause modern cars to retard timing thus leading to a loss of both responsiveness and fuel economy. This also does not apply to turbocharged vehicles, which may be allowed to run greater advance in certain circumstances due to external temperatures.

[scruff_mcruff]

Originally posted by Big - D Racing

P.s. I never heard of race fuel causing you to have less power. I heard of it not having an effect in terms of power, but not a negative effect besides the hole it burns in your wallet.

the negative affect isnt so much the actual fuel its the accomidating tune up that you must run to match the fuel. in my car on 112 we could run 28.5 deg total timing from 6k rpms up to get our optimal power curve, when we ran 114 we had to bump that to 31 deg to get the same curve but lost about 5 hp across the board. in my understanding its because the burn is started further from the top and if you think about it your spark plug fires before top dead center, so the further away from tdc you start the burn you are just working against your self in making power. thats in a 300whp N/A honda. in the 900 whp turbo honda I worked with we were in between 18-21 deg total timing.

[ridered92]

so will i have to run race gas?

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by ridered92
so will i have to run race gas?

Stick to a piston with a static compression rating of 11:1 or less if you want to run premium pump. Even then, there are some cases where 91 pump won't prevent engine knock--but most people seem to be ok at 11:1.

[GPracer2500]

Scruff, you're going too far in applying what you've seen happen in situation A to situation B. Whatever tuning specifics you've seen take place in your drag car is specific to your car and specific to the fuels you were using. It's a mistake to try and apply that information to other engines and other fuels. I know it's tempting though.

Same goes for comparing the minimum required octanes for different engines. YOU CANNOT COMPARE a 250F dirtbike to a 400EX and draw any meaningful conclusions about each's minimum required octane. Those engines have a long list of differences that matter when it comes to fuel requirements.

There is far more that goes into an engine's minimum required octane rating than the static compression ratio assigned to a piston. When we're talking 11:1, 12:1, or whatever, that's usually what we're referring to--static compression of a piston. What counts is the dynamic compression an engine generates once that piston is installed. You can install identical pistons in two different engines and end up with two different amounts of dynamic compression (because of the other specifics of the build). Other things matter too:

--air cooled vs. liquid cooled
--head design
--squish clearance
--bore size
--environmental conditions (temp, altitude, humidity)
--ignition timing
--exhaust design
--riding style and terrain
--a/f ratios
--and probably other things I'm not thinking of

There are lots of things that can all add up to push you one way or another. It is foolish to suggest that such and such an engine comes from the factory with a 12.5:1 piston and it's fine on pump gas; sooooooo, it must be fine for me to put a 12.5:1 piston in my engine and also use pump gas. And to say it with a righteous air of authority make it all the worse.

No disrespect intended, Scruff, but a few things you've said leave me wondering about how deeply you understand combustion. Your comments about ignition timing and the relationship between octane ratings and the combustion process stand out. I'm not trying to bash. But consider there's more to know than you realize.



About gasoline: Higher octane does not mean "take longer to burn". Understand the difference between detonation and deflagration before commenting on that subject. Octane rating only tells us ONE thing: the fuel's resistance to detonation. And deto resistance does not directly correlate to burn speeds. Again, refer to detonation vs. deflagration: they are two completely different forms of combustion. In the context on an engine, one is normal (deflagration) that should be happening and one is abnormal (detonation) that should not be occuring at ALL.

Octane rating tells us absolutely nothing else: not burning speeds, not energy content, not engine temperatures, etc etc NOTHING ELSE!! High octane gasolines are harder to explode (i.e. detonate) they are not harder to burn (i.e. deflagrate). You could have two racing fuels with identical octane ratings and one could burn much faster than the other. It just depends on the specifics of the fuels.

It's too bad the "high octane = slow burn" idea is so commonly disseminated--even by those in positions of perceived authority. It has done us all a disservice for a long time. Deeper study on the science of combustion reveals this octane rating vs. burn speed correlation is fundamentally flawed and indicative of a misunderstanding of what detonation actually is and how/why it happens.

We have a habit of attributing every characteristic of a fuel to its octane rating. Big mistake. There are a whole slew of specifications that determine how a gasoline performs and octane rating is only one of them. But it's the only one the casual observer pays attention to (or is even aware of) so it gets praised or blamed for everything. Remember that there are countless blends of "race gas". VP alone has 50+ varieties. If we're gonna talk about how gasoline performs we have to get at least a little specific about which particular gasoline we're talking about. XYZ race gas could behave completely different than ABC race gas even if their octane ratings are identical (except for deto resistance in the case of identical octane ratings and even then there are caveats). All those things I mentioned above that we love to pin on octane rating is really controlled by some other specification or characteristic of the gasoline. Without understanding this we're chasing our tail when we try and apply situation A to situation B.







I wanted to just stay out of this thread so I thought my first post would ease my mind and allow me to let it go. But I just can't do it.

[Ruby Soho]

i run pump gas at 11:1.. 440, and I've done 30min of riding on a track in 90F temperatures not stopping and it did not overheat once..:confused:

[XXXRACER165]

Jetting also plays a roll in this whole mess too. If you jet too lean, heat and detonation. Jet too rich, even with high octane fuel can cause to much heat and could detonate too.

[416exfreak]

Originally posted by Ruby Soho
i run pump gas at 11:1.. 440, and I've done 30min of riding on a track in 90F temperatures not stopping and it did not overheat once..:confused:

Yes, thats all fine and good at 11:1.

We're talking about trying to run a 440 on pump gas with 12.5:1 compression.;)

Trust me, I tried that once. It didnt work out so well for my valves....:(

[416exfreak]

Originally posted by scruff_mcruff
Call him yourself, your the one that believes in him. ask him a few questions about it. heres a good one to ask, whats the optimal piston design for flow and burn?

I did call him. He said that you "sounded like a 12 year old with a stock trx90, trying to sound tough on the net".

You are aware that Lenny Duncan owns Duncan Racing Incorporated.:eek2: :D

[scruff_mcruff]

to start off yes i did go in a direction that didnt need to be gone in, i should have left it with a simple we have a 426 12.5 motor w/ HC stage 2 cam running 94 oct on 105 deg days w/ 90% humidity.

GP, yes i completey understand what dynamic is and comprimises of. i did not degree in either of my motors to sit down and figure it out. this is supposed to be a hobby for me so i went with the tried and true setups and didnt go too crazy into making custom engine parts, yet. from the 10 or so 4 strokes ive built(most being 250f's) they have reacted very similar to mine thats why i made the comparison.

yes my understanding of fuel is limited outside of the 100's of hours on the engine dyno with 4 different fuels in my motors, but if we can get motors with 13.5-14:1 dynamic ratios to operate on 108 octane without a hint of knock, then a motor w/ static 12.5 shouldnt need anywhere near 110. mind you the honda heads are very similar in ports(exclude 400ex dual exhaust), combustion shape and valve angle, the only major diference i see is the atv motors generally have more spread out valves as to the cars, most likely since there isnt 4 cyl together(packaging).

and to 416freak im not a tough guy, not trying to be one, but where i come from you dont say this guy said to do this and thats it. if you dont ask questions you wont ever learn. and yes i know who he is, his family had a great run and did a great job w/ 2 strokes, seems to me they are struggling a little more with the 4 strokes tho. but thats my opinion. I personly dont care if you think hes the final word on what you believe, but to give that info to others as the bible is wrong, im not saying im totaly right either, but if i being a " 12 year old with a stock trx90, trying to sound tough on the net" can make the combo run and the other guy from MN can make it run wouldnt you stop and ask yourself if maybe you were doing something wrong? i can understand your in a nastier climate, but the jump from 93-110 is a huge one as far as price and knock protection. as i said before i havent seen a setup that would require anything over 98 yet, and the guy from utah w/ all the buddies running 100 would seem to agree.

[416exfreak]

If I still had the pictures of what happened to my valves after trying to run 93 octane in my 12.5:1 engine, Id post them and show you.

MELTED!!!!!:p

But yea, I do beleive Lenny Duncan. He builds these engines for a living. He knows what he's talking about. And I also just put his direct words out so you could see them. I wasn't trying to personally attack you.

Also, Im running a bigger cam than you are (according to your last post). I have a stage 4 billet webcam that requires the hardened rockers and such. I noticed a HUGE difference in the power just from ditching the HotCam.

Oddly enough, when I started running 112 in my 440, it gained power, ran cooler and sounded a hell of a lot better (Alot less engine noises).

You run what you like to run, and I'll run what I like to run. We live in completely different places. I have found the settup that works best for me, and you have found the best one for yourself.:)

[EXinMB]

WOW , I JUST WANTED SOME INFO ON PUTTIN MY 440 TOGETHER LOL. DIDN MEAN TO START A HUGE DEBATE HERE. LOOKS LIKE EVRYONE'S GOT THEIR OWN OPINION ON THE SUBJECT SO I GUESS ILL JUST GET SOME RACE FUEL AND SOME PUMP GAS AND SEE WHAT WORKS BETTER FOR ME

[440exadee]

i have a 440 12.5 to 1 and when i first built it i ran it on straight 110 race fuel ran good now i run it on methanol best thing i could have ever done!!!!

[416exfreak]

You got deep pockets 440exadee....

Methanol costs quite a bit, not to mention its a higher maintanence fuel.:)

[416exfreak]

Originally posted by EXinMB
WOW , I JUST WANTED SOME INFO ON PUTTIN MY 440 TOGETHER LOL. DIDN MEAN TO START A HUGE DEBATE HERE. LOOKS LIKE EVRYONE'S GOT THEIR OWN OPINION ON THE SUBJECT SO I GUESS ILL JUST GET SOME RACE FUEL AND SOME PUMP GAS AND SEE WHAT WORKS BETTER FOR ME

Just depending on how you ride, you maybe be able to get away with mixing it 50/50 or 70/30 (more race gas). If your gonna ease around on the engine and not keep it WFO all the time, then you may be able to not run striaght race fuel.

I run straight race fuel b/c I ride my 440 like its a banshee. I really need to ease up on it.:devil:

The other day, I rode to hard and she bucked me off. Broke my helmet visor:( Now it looks all goofy and junk...

[scruff_mcruff]

Originally posted by 416exfreak
You got deep pockets 440exadee....

Methanol costs quite a bit, not to mention its a higher maintanence fuel.:)

methanol is only $2.50 a gallon by the 55gal drum, even with the 2.1 -2.3 usage ratio of gas its still cheaper and by far runs way cooler than gas, air cooleds are extremely hard on the oil any ways so your not looking at much difference in maintanence costs overall.

[scruff_mcruff]

Originally posted by 416exfreak



Also, Im running a bigger cam than you are (according to your last post). I have a stage 4 billet webcam that requires the hardened rockers and such. I noticed a HUGE difference in the power just from ditching the HotCam.

Oddly enough, when I started running 112 in my 440, it gained power, ran cooler and sounded a hell of a lot better (Alot less engine noises).

You run what you like to run, and I'll run what I like to run. We live in completely different places. I have found the settup that works best for me, and you have found the best one for yourself.:)

go back and read again, if your running a bigger cam than me you most likely have less dynamic comp than I do, i couldnt tell you that since i dont have a clue as to what the ramps rates are but thats a whole nother ballpark to get into.

the mind can play wonderful tricks on what you think your hear and feel, thats why its always good to try the 2 out on dyno's and see what is actually happening. ive seen so many instances where the "butt dyno" really had no idea, but since your mind knows you made a change hopefully for the better you are subconciously thinking it feels better since you dont want to believe you just wasted that money for nothing.

thats the point i was trying to get, but you being from florida telling a guy in canada to run your tuneup dosnt make much sense.

[Big - D Racing]

What changes are needed to go from race fuel to methanol? What are the advantages over race fuel, if any? I've always ran race fuel and never played with Methanol, but you all have me interested.

[416exfreak]

Originally posted by scruff_mcruff
go back and read again, if your running a bigger cam than me you most likely have less dynamic comp than I do, i couldnt tell you that since i dont have a clue as to what the ramps rates are but thats a whole nother ballpark to get into.

the mind can play wonderful tricks on what you think your hear and feel, thats why its always good to try the 2 out on dyno's and see what is actually happening. ive seen so many instances where the "butt dyno" really had no idea, but since your mind knows you made a change hopefully for the better you are subconciously thinking it feels better since you dont want to believe you just wasted that money for nothing.

thats the point i was trying to get, but you being from florida telling a guy in canada to run your tuneup dosnt make much sense.

And you telling me that my tune-up isnt right doesnt make much sense either.

The cam im using has more lift and a longer duration than a stage 2 HotCam. Thats why I said its a "bigger" cam.

With the port work I have, I can take advantage of the bigger cam, since I can actually flow enough air into the cumbusion chamber to justify it.;)

[440exadee]

to change it over i had to buy a fcr carb and buy the conversion kit from eddie sanders racing as far as the maintainance its a small price to pay but worth every penny when you see the looks on your friends faces that race raptor 700s and 450 when you smoke them on the ol 400ex they never know what hit them. im only paying 4.50 a gallon compared to 6.55 for 110 plus throttle response is awesome once you stab the throttle the power is there grip it and rip it.

[scruff_mcruff]

Originally posted by 416exfreak

With the port work I have, I can take advantage of the bigger cam, since I can actually flow enough air into the cumbusion chamber to justify it.;)

once again go back and read what dynamic compression is. understand it. everytime you tell me something about your motor the dyn. comp gets lower. cause im sure they did some work in the chamber removing more material, and i havent seen anyone in this sport welding the chambers up yet. if you ever get a grasp on this whole concept and try some different things you might start to understand where im coming from.

[416exfreak]

Originally posted by 440exadee
to change it over i had to buy a fcr carb and buy the conversion kit from eddie sanders racing as far as the maintainance its a small price to pay but worth every penny when you see the looks on your friends faces that race raptor 700s and 450 when you smoke them on the ol 400ex they never know what hit them. im only paying 4.50 a gallon compared to 6.55 for 110 plus throttle response is awesome once you stab the throttle the power is there grip it and rip it.

I can outrun my dad on his Raptor 700 every time we race. His has a full HMF system, pro-flow intake, K&N filter and the Techlusion TFI module.

[416exfreak]

Originally posted by scruff_mcruff
once again go back and read what dynamic compression is. understand it. everytime you tell me something about your motor the dyn. comp gets lower. cause im sure they did some work in the chamber removing more material, and i havent seen anyone in this sport welding the chambers up yet. if you ever get a grasp on this whole concept and try some different things you might start to understand where im coming from.

To my knowledge, they did not remove any material from the combustion chamber. I have a standard length crank with a 12.5:1 compression piston. I see no reason that there would have to be any material removed from the combustion chamber.

That would defeat the purpose of putting a higher compression piston in it.:huh

[scruff_mcruff]

alright look up dyn comp and head porting, then figure it out. if you really had a port job and not just a casting cleanup or port match, they worked on the CC.

[Big - D Racing]

Originally posted by 440exadee
to change it over i had to buy a fcr carb and buy the conversion kit from eddie sanders racing as far as the maintainance its a small price to pay but worth every penny when you see the looks on your friends faces that race raptor 700s and 450 when you smoke them on the ol 400ex they never know what hit them. im only paying 4.50 a gallon compared to 6.55 for 110 plus throttle response is awesome once you stab the throttle the power is there grip it and rip it.

What did the kit cost? Will it work on any carb? I run the Eichner Edelbrock. What about the longevity on the motor? Does it do more damage or hurt the reliability. I looked on ESR's site and couldn't find any info really. Sounds like something I want to play with. I defnitely want to pay less for fuel. $10 a gallon for the C-12 I run.

[416exfreak]

They may have shaved it smooth, but they didnt go in ajust take hunks out of it.

They ported the intake runners, I custom ported the outer intake boot. They also ported the exhaust ports to match the tubing diameter on the head pipe of my Yoshi.

They did put in oversized valves, and went ahead and opened up the channels some while they were at it.

I honestly am gettig sick of arguing with you. You have he same lame retort every time. Find something new to try and rag on me with. Seriously.

I sent the engine to Sparks Racing the first two times, and now its at DRI getting some more port work donr in the head, and getting flow tested. If you must blame someone for me having a nice engine, then call DRI and ***** at them about it.

[scruff_mcruff]

im sorry, i dont ever remember saying you shouldnt have anything nice, and i could really care less what you have since you obviously wont take the time and cant comprehend what is being talked about. i was simply trying to help you realize that there might be some things you need to learn about engines, but you seem to be happy with just shipping parts to the "hottest builder" so thats fine .

[DF400ex]

Well put GPracer2500.

[440exadee]

the kit cost 135 they dont show it on the website i had to call them to find out about it, as far as i know esr only makes the kit for just the fcr carb. my buddy has his stock ex on methanol also for the last year and it has not done anything to the motor plus he now has a turbo on it.

[416exfreak]

Originally posted by scruff_mcruff
im sorry, i dont ever remember saying you shouldnt have anything nice, and i could really care less what you have since you obviously wont take the time and cant comprehend what is being talked about. i was simply trying to help you realize that there might be some things you need to learn about engines, but you seem to be happy with just shipping parts to the "hottest builder" so thats fine .

I ship my parts to the people who know what they are doing.

I have ridden a 400ex with a DRI national 440 kit in it (other than my own) and I liked it. I dont like Sparks now. They have proven to me that they can't build reliable engines.