Tips on racing...

[miller821]

Ok this is a pretty long read, and kinda worthless... So if you don't want to read it just scroll down to the bottom where I have some questions that I could use some answering.

So I raced arena cross last night and it was super fun!! I didn't do so great, but got a lot of experience out of it. I raced in beginner class, and in the heat I got 5th/6th and likewise in the main.... I soon found out how bad of shape I was in also!

Well before I ask my questions, I'll tell you why I wasn't doing so hot... In the first heat, I popped a wheelie on holeshot and that put me in second to last. I soon worked my way into 4th position, and was doing pretty good. But then I got passed back like it was nothing, because I really had troubles in the corner. I stuck out that race holding onto 5th position....

Well around comes the main event, I leaned way forward this time; got a great jump and was first to go into the turn... Well I went into it super hard and barely made the turn, I ended up killing it cause I hadn't kept the rpm's up. (I was to busy braking lol.) Well that put me in 5th position, so I got it back up and made my way back up into fourth. Ended up getting passed back in another turn, like it was nothing again! But this time during this race, I was kind of fed up... I mean their were 3 pretty decent sized jumps out their, and I was hitting 2 out of 3 of them; while everyone else was rolling them... So after about the 3rd lap I just decided to give them some space and start hitting these jumps (that way I could get some practice in.) I just ended up holding onto 5th.

Now it doesn't really bother me losing like I did, I mainly wanted to get some experience and see what I needed to improve on..(After all this was my First Ever race.) Well after the race I talked to my Father and Uncle, and we all agreed that I had the balls to hit the jumps and such; I just needed major help in the corners... It seemed every time I would go into one I had to take it wide or else It would try to tip on me. (I know your probably going to say that I need to lean into them more, but trust me, I was!)

I have 450r shocks on, and I have them set at about the mid level without re-valving or anything like that. I really don't want to send them away to get them re-valved. (Reason for this is I'm in the market for a 450.) I think having them on might of made my ride height go up a bit, maybe causing me to tip a bit easier in the turns?

So my question is this:

Should I keep these 450 shocks on and just turn them all the way down?

Or should I just go back to the 400ex stock shocks? (These jumps aren't super huge and I think the 400ex's could easily withhold them.)

Also is their anyway I can take the corners easier? I know wider A-Arms and axle will, but like I said I'm going to buy a 450 soon and mainly just need the Ex to last me another race. But is their anything cheap and easy to help this?

Any opinions (Good or Bad) are welcome!

were you sitting on the inside plastic around the turns? move your butt way to the inside of the turn and you can fly around them. the good thing is you had the balls to do the jumps, thats where i fall short becaue i am afraid of casing a double or something.

[GOTFEAR]

Well the first thing i do is pray to god for my safety when i race in doors and especially if I'm racing in the beginners class.. so wen i race indoors the first thing i do is run my air pressure up in the tires ( 4-6 more psi of air) to help the bike have a controlled slide in the corners and not two wheel and leave the gate in 2nd gear and set the ground clearance round 6 1/4 inches by measuring right in front of your foot pegs under the frame to ground with you on bike good luck!

[beaker1214]

Was this at Duqion Sat, I wasn't there for all the beginner class stuff but the jumps were pretty big at least the one closest to the stands, some of the pros where hittin it but there no way my 416 would be hahah Im waiting to get a 450 and hopefully Ill prolly run up there just to get my feet wet

[miller821]

Originally posted by beaker1214
Was this at Duqion Sat, I wasn't there for all the beginner class stuff but the jumps were pretty big at least the one closest to the stands, some of the pros where hittin it but there no way my 416 would be hahah Im waiting to get a 450 and hopefully Ill prolly run up there just to get my feet wet

Yea this was at Duquoin Saturday... I wasn't hitting the one closest to the stands, but the finish line one; and the one out of the hole shot weren't to bad. I'm with ya though, I don't trust my 406 on that huge triple like jump... Hopefully next race i'll see ya up their?

[beaker1214]

yeah Im really hoping that next year ill have a 450 then Im prolly going to hit up some of the beginners racing, my 416 needs some work now after riding at LEOR yesterday haha next time we go there riding ill send ya a pm there was 5 of us and the track was actually in pretty good shape there hah

[tanner 222]

i would defiantly keep the 450r shocks even tho you think you could do without them. just play with them a bit and you'll find the right setting. it took me almost a month to dial in my shocks so take your time.

the cheapest way i can think of widening it out is flipping your front wheels around. it'll give you a lot more stability and even adjust your shocks to sit lower for lower center of gravity. also you can search on the internet and read up on the "proper" way to take a corner and the fastest way. that should help you a bit.

[project400ex19]

Here's some things I would try

1.I would put in a little extra air in your tires especially the rears like GOTFEAR had mentioned. This allows you to slide more creating less traction in corners. another thing to remember that smoother is faster. If you come up high and cut really hard you are actually loosing time. More air also allows for less tire roll which keeps your quad flatter for more traction.
2.If you are looking at a 450 check to see if your 400ex and the 450 you are planning on purchasing share the same bolt pattern. You could purchase some different rims with a wider off-set.
3.also as mentioned try lowering your quad by adjusting your springs. I would keep the 450 shocks on it. Stay away from wheel spacers if you jump a lot.
4.try using your clutch in the corners to(i.e. come into the corner hard, rev your quad up and either feather or dump the clutch causing the tires to spin and slide you through the corner) this depends on how tight the corner is, the type of terrain also.


hope some of this helps. I know some of this was mentioned already.

[tanner 222]

the bolt patter on the 450r and the 400ex are the exact same just to throw that out there. all 450's are the same (4/110) except for YFZ's which are 4/115 im pretty sure. correct me if im wrong. but that is a good idea to buy some different offsets and i would even buy some different tires so you can run a slippery tire on hard packed and a gripprery tire on soft packed. thats what i carry around with me, 1 set for slippery, 1 set for hard and i carry another set with me for mud but you might not get those conditions in indoor races.

[zrpilot]

Lets not forget the basics:

Before I would even consider shocks and shock setup I have to feel confident that I know the following.

1) Tire size / Wheel size /Profile
2) Tire pressure (front and rear)
3) Wheel Width / Offset
4) Ride Height
5) Race Sag
6) Castor
7) Camber
8) Toe
9) Front / Rear Width

To go through all these takes me about 4-5 hours!


Once I feel confident that these are all to my liking then and only then do I look to shocks.

For example: I had a similar thing with my 400EX, it pushed through the corners really bad, because it actually had toe-OUT rather then toe-in. Before I checked these things my quad would not corner worth a crap. I discovered that after a ride during which I hit a deep rut, I bent the right front A-arm slightly and had to re-adjust the toe.

[miller821]

Originally posted by beaker1214
yeah Im really hoping that next year ill have a 450 then Im prolly going to hit up some of the beginners racing, my 416 needs some work now after riding at LEOR yesterday haha next time we go there riding ill send ya a pm there was 5 of us and the track was actually in pretty good shape there hah


Yea dude that track is usually kept up in pretty good condition... And yea just anytime you want to go riding their give me a shout-out.


Originally posted by tanner 222
i would defiantly keep the 450r shocks even tho you think you could do without them. just play with them a bit and you'll find the right setting. it took me almost a month to dial in my shocks so take your time.

the cheapest way i can think of widening it out is flipping your front wheels around. it'll give you a lot more stability and even adjust your shocks to sit lower for lower center of gravity. also you can search on the internet and read up on the "proper" way to take a corner and the fastest way. that should help you a bit.

I thought about the flipping the rims idea, but after running flipped rims in the rear and ruining a rim; I decided against it.

I'll try to adjust the springs and try to get it to sit a bit lower. Other then that I guess I just need a lot more track time.

Thanks for the tips guy's.

[300ex_#387]

I was at that race watching. We are waiting for parts to come in to finish up the 450. I saw a silver 400ex with an atvriders sticker on it. I'm guessing that was you. I saw that you were the only one in the beginner class doing those doubles when everyone else had a 450. You plan on racing anymore? Were almost finished building the 450 and I will be at the Jan 5th race at Duquoin. Ill be on a white #12 450r in the B class. Hope to see you there.

[tanner 222]

Originally posted by ride hard man
Yea dude that track is usually kept up in pretty good condition... And yea just anytime you want to go riding their give me a shout-out.



I thought about the flipping the rims idea, but after running flipped rims in the rear and ruining a rim; I decided against it.

I'll try to adjust the springs and try to get it to sit a bit lower. Other then that I guess I just need a lot more track time.

Thanks for the tips guy's.

arent the rear rims already flipped ? the offset isnt that much of a different anyways, i dont think it would make a difference. i bent and break rims all the time in the rear, just from normal track riding so if you are gonna race i would buy some beadlocks to prevent that

[hondaguy20]

ive always lived by hard on the gas or hard on the brakes.... this way ur going as fast as u can, longer... if you can stay in the gas longer than the other guy while staying in control... u will most likely be faster... when ur coming out of a corner slam the throttle... as soon as ur get off the slam in the throttle... another thing i found is that you can pass someone when your following directly behind them, use a different line... work him... if you cant pass the rider a head of you stay as close as you can and keep pushing him... the rider will soon make a mistake then ur right there to take the postion...just ride with your head... and like you said in your first post... u thought u were leaning... i remeber my first race i thought i was leaning too...i wasnt leaning adn much as i should have been... i found that by watching the pros... watch some youtube gnc races and just watch thier bodies... when at the races find some other riders and just pick up on what thier doing ask some question about what thier doing... ask them if you can go and practice with them some day... have them push around the track... this helped me alot.. pushing you into the corners whoops and such... practice, practice, practice... theres no substitue like seat time...getting a 450 may not solve the problem of where you finish in the race... you will still have to ride the machine...hope this helps...

[project400ex19]

Originally posted by hondaguy20
ive always lived by hard on the gas or hard on the brakes.... this way ur going as fast as u can, longer... if you can stay in the gas longer than the other guy while staying in control... u will most likely be faster... when ur coming out of a corner slam the throttle... as soon as ur get off the slam in the throttle... another thing i found is that you can pass someone when your following directly behind them, use a different line... work him... if you cant pass the rider a head of you stay as close as you can and keep pushing him... the rider will soon make a mistake then ur right there to take the postion...just ride with your head... and like you said in your first post... u thought u were leaning... i remeber my first race i thought i was leaning too...i wasnt leaning adn much as i should have been... i found that by watching the pros... watch some youtube gnc races and just watch thier bodies... when at the races find some other riders and just pick up on what thier doing ask some question about what thier doing... ask them if you can go and practice with them some day... have them push around the track... this helped me alot.. pushing you into the corners whoops and such... practice, practice, practice... theres no substitue like seat time...getting a 450 may not solve the problem of where you finish in the race... you will still have to ride the machine...hope this helps...


although this may work for some people. hammering on the gas doesn't always mean traction, no traction=slower lap times. Usually if you are smoother rider, come into a corner smooth (not powersliding, not over jumping, not underjumping) if you're sliding, you're not getting traction.

that's just my .02

[limetimeracerII]

I agree with what hondaguy said about practice and such. I think the one mistake first time racers make after they get done racing their first race is to look for new parts to make them faster. The single biggest thing by far that will make you faster is practice and seat time. Improve your riding techniques and endurance and you'll be a hell of a lot faster than if you slapped on a set of shocks or exhaust. Also watching pros is a good way to improve yourself. Pay attention to when they're on the brakes, when they're on the gas, their body position, even their pre race routine. Don't get me wrong, equipment and set up is important but don't make that your 1st priority. Oh by the way don't forget to have fun:muscle:

[project400ex19]

Originally posted by limetimeracerII
I agree with what hondaguy said about practice and such. I think the one mistake first time racers make after they get done racing their first race is to look for new parts to make them faster. The single biggest thing by far that will make you faster is practice and seat time. Improve your riding techniques and endurance and you'll be a hell of a lot faster than if you slapped on a set of shocks or exhaust. Also watching pros is a good way to improve yourself. Pay attention to when they're on the brakes, when they're on the gas, their body position, even their pre race routine. Don't get me wrong, equipment and set up is important but don't make that your 1st priority. Oh by the way don't forget to have fun:muscle:


I agree also, money cant buy knowledge of track/terrain, practice time, and endurance. Getting to know and practicing on the tracks has helped me dramatically to prepare me for my first and forecoming racing season :)

[miller821]

Originally posted by 300ex_#387
I was at that race watching. We are waiting for parts to come in to finish up the 450. I saw a silver 400ex with an atvriders sticker on it. I'm guessing that was you. I saw that you were the only one in the beginner class doing those doubles when everyone else had a 450. You plan on racing anymore? Were almost finished building the 450 and I will be at the Jan 5th race at Duquoin. Ill be on a white #12 450r in the B class. Hope to see you there.

Yeah that was me... And i'll definitely be trying to make most of the races that are left; especially the DuQuoin ones. If you see me their just give me a holla.

But I really agree with you guys when you say practice/seat time... Now I just need to find the time to get some of that in.:p And I'm definitely out their just to have fun!

[BUBBA Livesay]

Me and my buddy have been wanting to start That race there too. He races GNCC and we have both considerd giving it a try. I live in Walnut hill which is right out side centralia. maybe we could go ridin sometime, we are always goin to mt. vernon and marion ridin. we are wantin to go up there and check it out first tho, everybody says its pretty sweet. Who knows i may even be lined up next to you at one race it would be my first too!! LOL!!