A question for all the farmers

[Honda400exrox]

Ok this is kind of a broad question, what would it take to start a farm from scratch, no money from inheritance or nothing, basically building a 50-75 cow dairy farm?

[stumpleg]

I see that you are from Canada, so I can't give you a good answer. Here in the US, there are FSA offices that are part of the US gov. They are able to give out loans to beginning farmers as long as you meet certain qualifications. There may be an office of this type though where you are. I work for the NRCS office, which basically works with FSA, so if you have any questions, feel free to ask.

[troyleepred719]

Originally posted by Honda400exrox
Ok this is kind of a broad question, what would it take to start a farm from scratch, no money from inheritance or nothing, basically building a 50-75 cow dairy farm?

Not sure about Canada...


You would need to determine, if you were going to have stantion style , or freestall with parlor, or what tyoe if barn setup. Proper Equiptment, land for pasture, and manure/crops, all in all to start a good dairy operation, you would need about 200k. Honestly, if its not in the family already, its not a wise choice to get into, the money is scarce, and comes onve in a while, and depends on the year, how much comes in....donrt forget the bills....

[Ghost-Rider]

I think it would be difficult to start from scratch.

[beaker1214]

I would love to do this too but man in all truthfulness, this would almost be impossible. I would think that it would almost be impossible to pull yourself out of the debt that this would put you in just to start the farm let alone run it.

[Honda#4]

You would need to determine, if you were going to have stantion style , or freestall with parlor, or what tyoe if barn setup. Proper Equiptment, land for pasture, and manure/crops, all in all to start a good dairy operation, you would need about 200k. Honestly, if its not in the family already, its not a wise choice to get into, the money is scarce, and comes onve in a while, and depends on the year, how much comes in....donrt forget the bills....

I agree sometimes u get good crops and sometimes u dont depending on the year, being im a farmer i really dont think in my mind its worth it, it gets tiring over time and it takes a toll on ur body and such. Some years are better than others if you get droughty months then it takes a toll on the crops and you suffer. Basically we farm to pay the bills thats what it only comes down to.

[HtFoxChick]

Land, equipment, barn, cows= one million dollars.(minimum) Info coming from ex-dairy farmer himself.

We used to milk cows in Minnesota.

[CannondaleRider]

Yeah, I sincerely believe that there are far better business ventures that you can go into.

The working capitol you would need to start farming, especially at a level that would be anything near WORTH IT, could be much better spent in other areas. Real Estate comes to mind.

I say Real Estate, but that would depend on the current market in your state/area. For example, in Arizona currently, the real estate market is horrible for anything other then HIGH level homes, so Real Estate is a bad venture RIGHT NOW. If the markets good, it doesn't get much better then real estate for entry level entrepreneurs.

[ZSK]

I don't think evenn at 50 cows it would be enough to sustain itself once up and running. You'd probably need to be milking around a 100 and have around 130 head.

[282ex]

well...for anyone in the northeast its impossible. My parents both grew up on dairy farms that had about 200 cows each...and they seemed to do fine...but there were a few times of bad luck where a fire started from a down powerline...and burnt the barns. Then my family got into the horse bussiness and we had a 1 million $ (50 acres) barn that had 35 horses in it (we rented out the property and stalls) but there were bad tenants that wouldnt pay rent...they declared bankruptcy....and now we are waiting on a bunch of money that we are never going to get because they are bankrupt. needless to say that after 15 years we decided to knock down the barn and build houses on ten of the acres...the rest is in a land trust. (remake the money we lost).
Now if you are going into the fruit bussiness...then it might not be too hard because my family has had and maintained an orchard for almost 200 years, and it has done very well, always making improvements. And we dont even have that much growing land (75 acres) . maybe it is the location of the orchard (connecticut, about an hour from new york ) but it always does very well. until this year...id say if next year isnt abnormally good then its going to close too. Farming of any sort is very hard unless you are independently wealthy, you inherit the land or you are in a good area that will have many customers.

troylee put it very well: Honestly, if its not in the family already, its not a wise choice to get into, the money is scarce, and comes onve in a while, and depends on the year, how much comes in....donrt forget the bills....

damn I feel like i just babbled about nothing....:huh

[Aceman]

Originally posted by ZSK
I don't think evenn at 50 cows it would be enough to sustain itself once up and running. You'd probably need to be milking around a 100 and have around 130 head.

I beg to differ. My family has a small dairy farm and milks around 35-40. This isn't their sole source of income but it could be. It's all in the efficiency of your operation. My family makes more money with those few cows then most guys do with 200.

To the original poster, you need to work on a dairy before you just decide to build one. It's very hard to build a dairy from the ground up, financing everything. If the milk price drops, you most likely will sink. As far as startup costs, I'll bet it'll be several hundred thousand, if not a million, depending on how you do it. Think long and hard about this, farming isn't a career, it's a way of life.

[Toadz400]

Originally posted by Aceman
Think long and hard about this, farming isn't a career, it's a way of life.

[wilkin250r]

Here is the basic problem, and why most people are saying "if its not in the family already".

It used to be you could start a business like this (from scratch) for about $120,000. Nowadays, it's more like $750,000. That's an increase of 500%.

That would be well and fine if milk prices also went up the same amount, 500%, But they haven't. They've gone up 150%.

The startup costs have increased dramatically, while income potential has only increased a little. In order to start from scratch, you'd have to dig yourself into a hole that you can't dig out of.

[smr]

It takes a lot of hard work. I have been building mine over the last 5 years. Here's how I did it.

Rule # 1...don't borrow the money for your cows.
Buy bred cows and start from there.
Keep your heifers and sell the bulls/stears.
Buy a bull from another herd and keep going.

It will take you about 3 years for your cows to become self sufficent.

I also have a normal job that supports my family. It will take several more years before I can quit my regular job but I enjoy it and yes I started from scratch.

[duke416ex]

Originally posted by stumpleg
I see that you are from Canada, so I can't give you a good answer. Here in the US, there are FSA offices that are part of the US gov. They are able to give out loans to beginning farmers as long as you meet certain qualifications. There may be an office of this type though where you are. I work for the NRCS office, which basically works with FSA, so if you have any questions, feel free to ask.

That is interesting, I work with NRCS also, actually for the conservation district, but in the same office. Small world!!

Like was said earlier, before I tried to start any kind of farming operation I would definately work on a farm to see how you will like it. You can't look at farming as a business venture, it is one of those thing that either you love it and can do it or you don't, because it is something you have to be very dedicated to. There are a lot of programs out there for beginning farmers, but you will really have to be comitted to make it work.

[smr]

Originally posted by duke416ex
That is interesting, I work with NRCS also, actually for the conservation district, but in the same office. Small world!!

Like was said earlier, before I tried to start any kind of farming operation I would definately work on a farm to see how you will like it. You can't look at farming as a business venture, it is one of those thing that either you love it and can do it or you don't, because it is something you have to be very dedicated to. There are a lot of programs out there for beginning farmers, but you will really have to be comitted to make it work.


Hey Duke....can you help me get a barn built?...:D

[Honda400exrox]

I was talking to my boss today (who is a dairy farmer, I dont help out in the barn though, I am helpin him build a barn, and run a grain buggy, he said if i could probably get a student loan from the government and start from there, and I did work at a 2000 pig farrow to finish barn, and I ran it alone sometimes while my boss went on vacation, but had to leave that job because i couldnt stand that dick head. And I know cows are different than pigs, but it still takes some responsibility to run any farm, and i did it for a week lol

[Honda400exrox]

oh and also im still trying to figure out what would be the best way about gettin a property, buy a lot with a barn and house already on it? or buy a property with a house and build the barn from scratch? and i think id want a parlor

[Honda400exrox]

bump

[bradley300]

remeber, cows need miled every day regardless of weather, your hangover from the night before or the vacation you want to take. like others said, its not a job, its a way of life

[Honda400exrox]

Originally posted by bradley300
remeber, cows need miled every day regardless of weather, your hangover from the night before or the vacation you want to take. like others said, its not a job, its a way of life

Yeah I know that, the only vacation I take is to go for the december deer hunt, which is right were i live i can go, and cant hunt till the sun comes up right? so before that do chores lol and same for the evening milkin just stop to go work

[duke416ex]

Originally posted by smr
Hey Duke....can you help me get a barn built?...:D

I wish I could, talk to me this weekend and I might be able to direct you to a program though.

It is usually cheaper to buy an already established farm, if you can find one for sale. I doubt that 200k would touch a modern milking barn, let a lone the land and heard. Trust me, I am not trying to discourage anyone from farming, I just know from personnal experience how hard it is to get started.

[troyleepred719]

Originally posted by duke416ex
I wish I could, talk to me this weekend and I might be able to direct you to a program though.

It is usually cheaper to buy an already established farm, if you can find one for sale. I doubt that 200k would touch a modern milking barn, let a lone the land and heard. Trust me, I am not trying to discourage anyone from farming, I just know from personnal experience how hard it is to get started.

your right, i wasnt thinking about his situation, it would take me about 200k to get things ideal to make money here, mind you im just running 30 herferd heifers and bulls, for hobby, but to make more money, i would take a decent amount of money, considering i got most of the stuff, 3oo acres of land, 3 barns, 2 garages, and 2 pole barns..... just to give you an idea

[MX MaNiAc 06]

My neighbor has a farm and the money it takes just to sustain the farm is rediculous! Tractors, bobcats, trucks, bumptrucks, 100 cows, 3 barns, over 50 acres of pasture, slury pond, over 1000 acres worth of fields, gas for all the machinery, machines to milk the cows. I dont even want to know how much ud have to put into that. Constant dumptrucks going in and out. They have their own gas pump. With the price of gas that adds up quick!

[reconmaster]

seein how i live on a farm we used to be dairy now horse boarding my pronvical government don't do crap for us but i'm not sure what its like in ontario but farming from scratch is not a good idea just no money in it thats one reason i'm becomin a counselor for people with disabilities like myself

[Jackie]

I recomend leasing land for your farm first to see if you can make it happen.
Good Luck
try to use the banks money. write a bizz plan.

[Honda400exrox]

Well i was talking to my boss today, he said find and investor but didnt really go into detail about it cause were busy as hell right now trying to get the last of corn done while the weathers good, but back on topic does any know what he meant by that?

[Honda400exrox]

Bump anyone sorry if this is getting annoying for anyone, but Pretty well on here is the only place i can find help with this stuff my parents arent any help, mom said couldnt financially do it and dad just asked me if i was f*cking stupid:(

[JOEX]

Sorry if this has been asked already...

Do you have a market to sell your product? Might want to think about a niche market such as 100% organic but that opens another issue of getting certified... Or maybe hook up with a specialty cheese maker.... If you're set on a running a dairy farm.

[duke416ex]

I would say your boss is talkin gone of 2 things, first is that a lot of times wealthy people are looking for ways to invest their money and get good returns on it. You will have to have a very detailed business plan with facts to back it up about how you will give them a good return on their money. I would say that it will be very hard to find an investor like this.

The other way is, sometimes large farmers kinda sub lease ou tto smaller farms. Say a milking parlor was about to shut down due to over head, a larger dairy might say, we will supply the cows and the feed, you have to do all the milking and taking care of the animals and then the money from the herd will be split between the 2 of you. This is becoming popular around my area with hog floors, and I have also heard of some feedlots doing it. I am unsure about dairys though as we only have a couple locally.

Hope this helps.