Guys, another one of my friend got shot

[400eXr1d3rZ]

This time it was a suicide attempt...his name is Joseph "Big Joe" Lynn, I didn't really know him well, he was more of just an aquantence to me...all of my friends seem to just be dying or getting hurt badly :(

He brought a pistol to school, small caliber...probably a .22 or similar, sat down and shot himself in the head early in the morning today...he was sitting inbetween the Gym and the school building.

Here's the story...he's now in Oschner Hospital on lifesupport and in critical condition.

Hang in there man, we're praying for you
http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/wwl110507tpcurtis.1de604beb.html

[Mc. Muffin]

Damn man, sorry to hear that. He will definitely be in my prayers.

[tp300ex]

wow hes in my prayers i figured it was in another state.....but a school in louisiana....i know he will be in all of our prayers tomorrow at school Redemtorist high...hang in there lil guy

[Ghost-Rider]

Thats to bad.

[Robin Hood]

I'm so sorry dude. My prayers go out to him and his family and friends.

[400EXtreme]

man thats awful im sorry bro ill be praying

[Badmammajamma]

Wow I didn't hear anything about this on the news (I live in Denham Springs outside of Baton Rouge). I'll send him a prayer.

[Pappy]

stupid is as stupid does. what a moron.

[ingleful]

wow such a young kid..why go do that...will pray for him

[416exfreak]

Originally posted by Pappy
stupid is as stupid does. what a moron.

Amen brother. If someone is that far gone that they are commiting suicide then they're a lost cause. Just let them do it and get theirself out of the gene pool.:ermm:

[BlaineKaiser450]

Originally posted by Ghost-Rider
Thats to bad.

[07250ex]

Originally posted by Pappy
stupid is as stupid does. what a moron.

exactly ... saying hang in their to someone like that is like telling a deer not to stare at the headlights ... it just aint gonna happen ... if he wanted to die why would he wanna hang in there

[Doober]

Im going to have to agree with pappy on this one, but i give his family my prayers to stay strong.

[mineralgrey01gt]

most of the time kids that young have problems at home and they want out so they go after it. Its really sad to hear things like that happening but maybe now that he has a chance to live through this, it will put some sense into his mind and he will look at life in a different way

[JOEX]

Getting shot and shooting yourself are two very different events...

Same thing goes for acquaintances and friends, they are very different.

Maybe you need to take a hard look at your social circle:ermm:

Originally posted by Pappy
stupid is as stupid does. what a moron.

Hard to feel sorry for a kid that does this to theirself.

My prayers go out to the family and friends.

[SET THE STAGE]

Originally posted by Pappy
stupid is as stupid does. what a moron.

LOL

i have so many suicide jokes i'd like to make right now but i'm sure people would get pretty mad so i'll keep to myself

[miller821]

man im soo sorry about your friend.. my prayers go out to him and his family... and i completely disagree with what pappy said:
Originally posted by Pappy
stupid is as stupid does. what a moron.
suicide runs in my family.. and i feel that comment was completely unecessary and cruel... to understand what is running through a suicidle persons mind is completely and utterly impossible... what seems like such a small thing to you may be a huge deal to me... and that goes for everyone.. everyone looks at situations differently.. and when some people get in situations that they cant see any way out of they turn to they only option they feel they have.... im not saying i agree with their decision just that i sympathize with it .. and for PAPPY to sit there and call the person a "MORON" is completely the opposite of helpful.... matter of fact Pappy why dont you take a look at your actions and your name calling... its people like YOU who drive people to committing suicide... how would you feel if your kid had just been in this situation??? how would you feel if a man who never even met your child had the nerve to call him stupid or a moron?!?! i think you should consider these questions and take a long look at yourself!!! and think about how hurtful your words can be before you say them... And again my prayers go out to your friend and his family...

Originally posted by ride hard man
man im soo sorry about your friend.. my prayers go out to him and his family... and i completely disagree with what pappy said:
suicide runs in my family.. and i feel that comment was completely unecessary and cruel... to understand what is running through a suicidle persons mind is completely and utterly impossible... what seems like such a small thing to you may be a huge deal to me... and that goes for everyone.. everyone looks at situations differently.. and when some people get in situations that they cant see any way out of they turn to they only option they feel they have.... im not saying i agree with their decision just that i sympathize with it .. and for PAPPY to sit there and call the person a "MORON" is completely the opposite of helpful.... matter of fact Pappy why dont you take a look at your actions and your name calling... its people like YOU who drive people to committing suicide... how would you feel if your kid had just been in this situation??? how would you feel if a man who never even met your child had the nerve to call him stupid or a moron?!?! i think you should consider these questions and take a long look at yourself!!! and think about how hurtful your words can be before you say them... And again my prayers go out to your friend and his family...

There are worse things in this world than middle school.

I had an family member commit suicide because he had Huntingston disease. There are things in this world worth living for, and I'm sorry that it took a gun to make the kid realize it if he does ever realize it.

My prayers go out to the family and friends, and I hope the kid gets thinking right, and never even think about suicide again.

[pro-rider46]

pappy i agree, i think if your killing yourself your selfish,and dont care about your friends what they will do. its just the quick and dum way out of your problems

[JOEX]

I understand what ride hard man is saying. It's unfortunate but some people are unable to handle certain situations how most people think the situation should be handled. And IMO it's a series of events that are very personalized and build up to a breaking point due to the inability to vent them in a "normal" manner.

[Bradracer18]

I agreed with the person who disagreed with pappy. Very uncool to say that to someone, better to just keep that to yourself.....not sure how you helped the conversation by that input.


I guess I think more of what could be that bad, at that age.....to make him want to do that? Makes a person wonder, if something at home could have been bad...and I think no one can speak for that. Especially if they have never been in that situation! We had a young girl in our town, who was getting sexually assaulted by family...who burnt the house down with her family in it. Very weird thoughts that some people come up with....but I guess they were raised that way...

[wilkin250r]

No, Pappy had it right. Or at least, half right.

Suicide isn't about solving all your problems. It isn't about ending your pain. It isn't about depression, or the inability to cope with life's obstacles.

It's revenge. It's about causing pain, not about relieving it.

Why do people leave suicide notes? To make sure that those responsible for his/her pain KNOW the reasons, to make those people feel guilty. It isn't "I want to you understand what I'm feeling", it's more like "I want to hurt you the way you hurt me".


Like this kid in question. Why did he do it at the school? Because he couldn't find anywhere else? Bull. He wanted to make a spectacle of it.

Sugar-coat it all you want, if it helps you sleep at night. But that's the sad reality of it. :ermm:

[my88r]

its sad to hear this stuff two of the people i know killed themselves but they also did every drug imaginable. i think its stupid but if you go home every night to a family that beats you and doesnt give a crap and stuff like that i guess you would have a reason. getting help sometimes can only make it worse. im glad i dont half to worry about that stuff my family it good to me and the quads and bikes are all ways good to me.

[CannondaleRider]

Yeah, I'll sympathize for his family, but the actual guy who attempted to off himself will get no sympathy from me.

Suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness, your not hurting yourself, your not solving your problems...your laying all of your problems down onto everyone else who would care about you getting rid of yourself. Doesn't get much more selfish then that.

Instead of manning up to his issues, solving his problems, and changing his life, he made an attempt at taking the easy way out. Like someone else said, it's obvious it wasn't just him trying to escape.....he did it at school, where it will hit people harder. It was an attempt at revenge. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.

Like I said, he gets NONE of my sympathy.

[JOEX]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
No, Pappy had it right. Or at least, half right.

Suicide isn't about solving all your problems. It isn't about ending your pain. It isn't about depression, or the inability to cope with life's obstacles.

It's revenge. It's about causing pain, not about relieving it.

Why do people leave suicide notes? To make sure that those responsible for his/her pain KNOW the reasons, to make those people feel guilty. It isn't "I want to you understand what I'm feeling", it's more like "I want to hurt you the way you hurt me".


Like this kid in question. Why did he do it at the school? Because he couldn't find anywhere else? Bull. He wanted to make a spectacle of it.

Sugar-coat it all you want, if it helps you sleep at night. But that's the sad reality of it. :ermm:
I understand what you're saying but that's the perspective of the 'survivors' not of the perspective of the suicidal. I agree some may want to make 'spectacle' of it but whether that's the norm I don't know.

It's not solving the problem, it's ending the problem for the individual and all about depression and inability of coping with lifes obstacles. This is what those who are 'normal' don't understand.

Can an analytical mind understand an emotional mind?

[Bradracer18]

Its also very obvious that many of you don't understand psychology....people get depressed/have troubles and can't deal with things. Its an illness...even though its not noticeable like a broken arm....its just as bad(if not worse).

[chris46250r]

I'm gonna have to go with the minority on this one. I think that suicide is the ultimate chicken shiz move that there is. If you got problems, deal with them some other way or get help if thats what it takes. If you cant come up with anything better than suicide, go out in the woods or get in a cave so you dont screw up someone else's day by having your little pitty party. Agree or not, I really dont care. Suicide is a one way, express ticket straight to hell. Prayers and sympathy to the kids family for having to deal with it.

[Kickstarts-suck]

Originally posted by ride hard man
man im soo sorry about your friend.. my prayers go out to him and his family... and i completely disagree with what pappy said:
suicide runs in my family.. and i feel that comment was completely unecessary and cruel... to understand what is running through a suicidle persons mind is completely and utterly impossible... what seems like such a small thing to you may be a huge deal to me... and that goes for everyone.. everyone looks at situations differently.. and when some people get in situations that they cant see any way out of they turn to they only option they feel they have.... im not saying i agree with their decision just that i sympathize with it .. and for PAPPY to sit there and call the person a "MORON" is completely the opposite of helpful.... matter of fact Pappy why dont you take a look at your actions and your name calling... its people like YOU who drive people to committing suicide... how would you feel if your kid had just been in this situation??? how would you feel if a man who never even met your child had the nerve to call him stupid or a moron?!?! i think you should consider these questions and take a long look at yourself!!! and think about how hurtful your words can be before you say them... And again my prayers go out to your friend and his family...

x2

[tman12345]

Originally posted by Bradracer18
Its also very obvious that many of you don't understand psychology....people get depressed/have troubles and can't deal with things. Its an illness...even though its not noticeable like a broken arm....its just as bad(if not worse).
i agree, all these people don't know what its like, obviosuly they can't relate, all these people should watch what they say, it hurts peoples feelings in times like these, they should have more respect for others. Hope he pulls through, it is possible that he have a complete turn around in life, and realize that life is good. he's in my prayers.

[tank69]

If you don't have anything constructive to say on this topic, don't open your mouth. Whatever the case, this kid is hurting and so is the family of the victim, I sympathize with both of you.

Pappy, you'll never get any of my business, your post proves nothing more than ignorance on your part. Same for everyone else with the "he got what he deserved" and the other crap. The kid wanted to vent, get it off his chest and he chose to do it in a forum of, what he thought, were friends who shared a common interest. What he got was more negativity than sympathy. How hard would it have been to just say, "Hang in there kid, you'll get thru this" no matter what your views were? No, you are the ones who take the "chicken shiz" approach by downing him and his friend.

[trick450r]

Originally posted by Pappy
stupid is as stupid does. what a moron.

[CannondaleRider]

Originally posted by tank69
If you don't have anything constructive to say on this topic, don't open your mouth. Whatever the case, this kid is hurting and so is the family of the victim, I sympathize with both of you.

Pappy, you'll never get any of my business, your post proves nothing more than ignorance on your part. Same for everyone else with the "he got what he deserved" and the other crap. The kid wanted to vent, get it off his chest and he chose to do it in a forum of, what he thought, were friends who shared a common interest. What he got was more negativity than sympathy. How hard would it have been to just say, "Hang in there kid, you'll get thru this" no matter what your views were? No, you are the ones who take the "chicken shiz" approach by downing him and his friend.

What is ignorant, is believing that somebody killing themselves(or trying), and screwing up his family for the rest of their lives, is JUST. In my mind, we are not making attempts at downing the kid, but a suicide attempt is IGNORANT, simple as that.

Sure, I hope that this kid can pull through it, learn that there are much less ignorant ways to deal with problems, figure his life out, and become very successful in life.....but, I would not support his suicide attempt, just to selfish. Don't give me this "You have to have been at a low point in life to understand that mentality" I've been through worse stuff then most anybody on here will come even close to having to deal with. I've been at a point of not seeing my life going ANYWHERE else, except for worse, then the current horrible situation I was in. But, ya know, the thought of finishing myself off never crossed my mind. I would never be so selfish as to think that it would be advantagous to do so. I was patient, I worked through the crap, and my life has NEVER been so great. ANY problem can be worked out, if just given time. Supporting the mentality of someone believing that suicide is the only way out, is ignorant.

[chris46250r]

Originally posted by tank69
If you don't have anything constructive to say on this topic, don't open your mouth. Whatever the case, this kid is hurting and so is the family of the victim, I sympathize with both of you.

Pappy, you'll never get any of my business, your post proves nothing more than ignorance on your part. Same for everyone else with the "he got what he deserved" and the other crap. The kid wanted to vent, get it off his chest and he chose to do it in a forum of, what he thought, were friends who shared a common interest. What he got was more negativity than sympathy. How hard would it have been to just say, "Hang in there kid, you'll get thru this" no matter what your views were? No, you are the ones who take the "chicken shiz" approach by downing him and his friend.


How can or why should you wish someone well that wanted to die? I dont understand the defense here. And what the hell does getting anything powdercoated have to do with this. I'm quite sure there are some people that I would hate with a passion that work at GM and Honda but I'm still gonna drive and ride those two respectively.

[89dc240]

Is the minority still the minority on this one? I feel for the family and ACTUAL friends of the kid, but not for him. My friend's brother offed himself and it has brought so much grief to his family, and more-so to him. It's actually torn the father and 2 surviving brothers so far apart that none will talk to either of the other 2.

It's almost a shame to see people sticking up for this kid. He made his own decision. I wanna see pictures of what this guy is gonna look like for the rest of his life now that he's screwed up killing himself. And I'd like to hear from him why he did it at the school. That's a dick move. Almost like he knew he was gonna live through it. A publicity stunt even.

[troyleepred719]

Im not gonna side with anyone here, I know who I agree with and disagree with. Ive ran ALOT of Suicide calls in my time, From the dimented, to those who need to off themselves. You cant just have one view on suicide, when youve seen what Ive Seen. I have given CPR to a Middle Aged woman, who was very stable In life, but Lost her New Born, HOW is it fair to sit there and say that she is a waste of life, when she obviously found the pain so unbearable, that this was her decision to deal with it. Now when it comes to the teen age boy who wants to off himself, cause mommy and daddy dont pay enough attention, thats a different story. NO ONE DESERVES TO DIE, NO ONE AT ALL, WHETHER YOU FEEL THERE A BENIFIT TO SOCIETY OR NOT, I believe in eye for an eye, and justice more than anyone, thats a dfferent story, BUT TO SIT HERE AND SAY THAT THERE IDIOTS BECAUSE THEY DIDNT SUCCEED, AND ALL OF THIS ****, SERIOUSLY, IT DOESNT MATTER WHO THEY ARE TAKE A LOOK INTO THEIR LIFE BEFORE YOU MAKE THESE DECISIONS, AND I THINK SOME OF YOU NEED TO BE AROUND DEATH A LITTLE MORE, BEFORE YOU CAN MAKE THE JUDGEMENT ABOUT WHO DESERVES TO DIE, BECAUSE I ASSURE YOU, YOUR MIND WILL CHANGE.

[chris46250r]

Originally posted by troyleepred719
Im not gonna side with anyone here, I know who I agree with and disagree with. Ive ran ALOT of Suicide calls in my time, From the dimented, to those who need to off themselves. You cant just have one view on suicide, when youve seen what Ive Seen. I have given CPR to a Middle Aged woman, who was very stable In life, but Lost her New Born, HOW is it fair to sit there and say that she is a waste of life, when she obviously found the pain so unbearable, that this was her decision to deal with it. Now when it comes to the teen age boy who wants to off himself, cause mommy and daddy dont pay enough attention, thats a different story. NO ONE DESERVES TO DIE, NO ONE AT ALL, WHETHER YOU FEEL THERE A BENIFIT TO SOCIETY OR NOT, I believe in eye for an eye, and justice more than anyone, thats a dfferent story, BUT TO SIT HERE AND SAY THAT THERE IDIOTS BECAUSE THEY DIDNT SUCCEED, AND ALL OF THIS ****, SERIOUSLY, IT DOESNT MATTER WHO THEY ARE TAKE A LOOK INTO THEIR LIFE BEFORE YOU MAKE THESE DECISIONS, AND I THINK SOME OF YOU NEED TO BE AROUND DEATH A LITTLE MORE, BEFORE YOU CAN MAKE THE JUDGEMENT ABOUT WHO DESERVES TO DIE, BECAUSE I ASSURE YOU, YOUR MIND WILL CHANGE.


Fair is fair then. If he lives through this he should be charged with attempted murder and pay his dues.

[07250ex]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
No, Pappy had it right. Or at least, half right.

Suicide isn't about solving all your problems. It isn't about ending your pain. It isn't about depression, or the inability to cope with life's obstacles.

It's revenge. It's about causing pain, not about relieving it.

Why do people leave suicide notes? To make sure that those responsible for his/her pain KNOW the reasons, to make those people feel guilty. It isn't "I want to you understand what I'm feeling", it's more like "I want to hurt you the way you hurt me".


Like this kid in question. Why did he do it at the school? Because he couldn't find anywhere else? Bull. He wanted to make a spectacle of it.

Sugar-coat it all you want, if it helps you sleep at night. But that's the sad reality of it. :ermm:

bingo

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by JOEX
It's not solving the problem, it's ending the problem for the individual and all about depression and inability of coping with lifes obstacles. This is what those who are 'normal' don't understand.

Can an analytical mind understand an emotional mind?

It's very simple. Actions speak louder than words. I don't care what people "say" their reasons are, I'm going to look at their actions. The actions will determine the true motives. Like the kid in question. Forget what he "said", look at what he "did".

Why did he do it at school? I can't believe for one second that it was the easiest choice.

The easiest location would have been the exact location he obtained the gun. But maybe he wasn't ready then, he has to craft a suicide note (and you've already read my theories on those), so why not immediately after he put those affairs in order?

For the school to be the location, he would have to scheme, to put effort into it. The article states "Officials still aren’t sure how Lynn was able to get a gun on campus", which leads me to believe they have security measures in place that he has to plan and work around.

Regardless of analytical or emotional tendencies, basic human nature says that a person does not put forth effort and work without having a motive. The school is an inconvenient location, he has to have some sort of motive to make it so.

What other possible motive could there be, except to make a bigger impact?

[07250ex]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
It's very simple. Actions speak louder than words. I don't care what people "say" their reasons are, I'm going to look at their actions. The actions will determine the true motives. Like the kid in question. Forget what he "said", look at what he "did".

Why did he do it at school? I can't believe for one second that it was the easiest choice.

The easiest location would have been the exact location he obtained the gun. But maybe he wasn't ready then, he has to craft a suicide note (and you've already read my theories on those), so why not immediately after he put those affairs in order?

For the school to be the location, he would have to scheme, to put effort into it. The article states "Officials still aren’t sure how Lynn was able to get a gun on campus", which leads me to believe they have security measures in place that he has to plan and work around.

Regardless of analytical or emotional tendencies, basic human nature says that a person does not put forth effort and work without having a motive. The school is an inconvenient location, he has to have some sort of motive to make it so.

What other possible motive could there be, except to make a bigger impact?

double bingo

[sly400ex]

Some of you "respected" members on here are such complete asses about this subject when it is brought up. If you can't be sympathetic, don't say anything at all.

I could have sworn depression was a disease. Diseases can kill either directly or indirectly.

I do believe that attempted suicide is a cry for help or attention, but those that follow through obviously just didn't want to suffer the pain of life anymore.

My mother took her own life a couple of years ago after BATTLING with depression for several years. In and out of the hospitals, I don't know how many different meds they tried on her....she was never able to stabilize.
....It saddened our family tremendously to not have her anymore, but we know she hurt more while still alive, than we have ever hurt in our life times'.(my family that is).
BTW, she didn't leave a note and did this in the privacy of her own bedroom, so I guess this was somewhat of a "legitimate" suicide according to wilkin:rolleyes:

[Ghost-Rider]

Wow 4 pages already...


You guys need to not get so worked up over something a person says. In most of the threads people make about a friend dieing the kid was doing something wrong. Which is why I would say sorry for your loss but not R.I.P.

I have zero respect for a person who kills them self. It's no different than murder, and what if the kid had tried to kill a bunch of people then himself ? Makes me wonder, why would he have brought the gun to school ?

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
It's very simple. Actions speak louder than words. I don't care what people "say" their reasons are, I'm going to look at their actions. The actions will determine the true motives. Like the kid in question. Forget what he "said", look at what he "did".

Why did he do it at school? I can't believe for one second that it was the easiest choice.

The easiest location would have been the exact location he obtained the gun. But maybe he wasn't ready then, he has to craft a suicide note (and you've already read my theories on those), so why not immediately after he put those affairs in order?

For the school to be the location, he would have to scheme, to put effort into it. The article states "Officials still aren’t sure how Lynn was able to get a gun on campus", which leads me to believe they have security measures in place that he has to plan and work around.

Regardless of analytical or emotional tendencies, basic human nature says that a person does not put forth effort and work without having a motive. The school is an inconvenient location, he has to have some sort of motive to make it so.

What other possible motive could there be, except to make a bigger impact?


Well lets see, if he got the gun from school, then that ideas out the window.

I agree suicide is a selfish thing, but again who are we all to judge this kid that we dont even know. People have to go through some crazy stuff in their life. All of you saying get over it time will heal it blah blah blah, congratulations you're tougher than others, doesn't give you the right to put this kid down. Even if this is your beliefs and ideas, keep it out of this thread, show some respect, if not for the kid, how about his friend who started this thread? I have a question for those of you with this attitude that he did this to himself and he should have found a better way to deal with, have any of you had to deal with a suicide? I dont think most of you even know what true depression is. Can you imagine being so unhappy that even riding doesn't appeal to you anmore? I know I cant, but I know people who have. I find it amazing how unsympathetic some of you are especially towards a fellow ATV rider who is suffering a loss. If you dont want to say any nice words about the shooter himself, dont, but dont crap on this kid, he doesn't deserve it.

[SGA]

Everyone is entitled to thier opinions on this. Some could care less or think the world is better off with someone killing themselves and others feel sympathy and hurt. Thats what makes us all different, our outlooks on life.
I personally feel a sadness inside when i hear of someone commiting suicide, for both the person who did it and the family and loved ones left behind.
Is killing yourself the right thing to do? No absolutely not and I wish someone had stopped it and had gotten the person the help they needed.

[Flyin-Low]

Suicide is nothing but the cowards way out.. I hope the kid survives for the family's sake, but I have absolutely no respect for him.


-Martin

[Pappy]

lol...thanks for the demeaning words on an opinion i have on suicide.

1st, the thread starter admitted he knew of this kid, not a close freind, so my somewhat off the cuff remark is based on no real connection or worry of feelings he may have to a person he hardly knows.

2nd, i have seen a ton of suicides, and the only people it hurts is the ones left behind. how many of you have stuffed a 15 year old kid in a body bag with half his head gone while his mother and father wailed away? how many of you have pulled a murdered wife and suicidale husband off their 6 month old baby? ever seen a wife walk into the scene when her husband is swinging from a rope in the garage? thats what i thought. dont even consider the fact others have first hand knowledge on this issue from dealing with this issue from the perspective of a lowly fireman or the fact i have had suicide in my own family...and he was a moron as well!!!

3rd, depression may well be a disease, but suicide is not an answer. you want to kill yourself then do it or seek help , just dont expect pity from me if you off yourself...not cool. for those saying it is, think of what impression you are leaving to anyone who may read this:rolleyes: real nice putting suicide before seeking proper treatment for depression etc.

4, if someone wont deal with me because we differ on opinion, then gladly take your work elsewhere. last time i checked america was free and so is my opinion.

5, the thread title states friend but in the first sentence the author states he did not know him that well. you people crack me up. i take little to heart when i see someone seeking attention at the tradegy of another.

and why do it at school? id say attention and to make a statement period. but 1 reason could be that he was in such a mental state that if he did get the gun at school he immediatley took action. that would indicate he was suffering from severe mental issues and the time for help was well past. 2, maybe he had intended to shoot up the school before taking his own life....if that is the case be thankful he only shot himself. (i think there is enough proof from past incidents to show this to be a valid "what if")

and he died at 8:10 this morning for those so concerned with him and not the suicide issue.

[SRH]

as terrible as it may sound, i dont feel sorry for him, its a selfish weak thing to do, and just another deadbeat for society to drag along, like we dont have enough baggage, if we didnt spend so much time and money on people that have no appreciation for life and never will maybe we could focus on real problems....if we were animals someone would of ate him by now...and alot of other people

[SRH]

you guys shouldnt jump everyone for what you guys feel are negative views on this, some people on here have been in some dark places through there life, there survivors, and its purely disgusting to hear about a poor me suicide, the ones of you who are sympathic and hurt more than likely have had relatively easy lives... life is what you make of it, everyone makes there own decisions, and you do what you can with the cards your delt, i feel sorry for the guy who posted this, hes damaged by his friends actions, the reason he did it at school? attention...so everyone would say that poor kid....

[Unverfehrt400ex]

things like this are the stuff that is going to get guns band from us in years to come.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by ride hard man
man im soo sorry about your friend.. my prayers go out to him and his family... and i completely disagree with what pappy said:
suicide runs in my family.. and i feel that comment was completely unecessary and cruel... to understand what is running through a suicidle persons mind is completely and utterly impossible... what seems like such a small thing to you may be a huge deal to me... and that goes for everyone.. everyone looks at situations differently.. and when some people get in situations that they cant see any way out of they turn to they only option they feel they have.... im not saying i agree with their decision just that i sympathize with it .. and for PAPPY to sit there and call the person a "MORON" is completely the opposite of helpful.... matter of fact Pappy why dont you take a look at your actions and your name calling... its people like YOU who drive people to committing suicide... how would you feel if your kid had just been in this situation??? how would you feel if a man who never even met your child had the nerve to call him stupid or a moron?!?! i think you should consider these questions and take a long look at yourself!!! and think about how hurtful your words can be before you say them... And again my prayers go out to your friend and his family...

Suicide is not hereditary, it is based on family life and life's circumstances, not something passed down in the gene pool.

Moron-[noun] a person of subnormal intelligence
An intelligent person knows the ramifacations of suicide, and seeing there is no return from a successfull attempt, a person will override the natural born will to survive when they take their own life. In other words, it doesnt take a genius to kill themselves, infact it happens everyday.

You will need to explain how me calling someone who kills themself at age 13 a moron, increases the number of suicides in the world. I would in turn say you sir are the moron based on your statement.

How would I feel? Well, if the circumstances were as in this case the same, i.e. no one knows of anything in the boys life that would lead him to suicide I would be in shock, suffer from severe grief and feel completely lost as I asked myself as a parent what I missed in my childs life that I couldnt have stepped in ahead of time. Ofcourse, as reported there was no known reason or circumstances in this childs life that anyone can bring forth to levy a possible reason for him to take such action. If my son had been in this situation, he would be a ****ING idiot for taking such action PERIOD!

As far as a man I have never met, his feelings? Well, he has a right to voice his opinion on the subject wether I agree with it or not when its posted on a PUBLIC forum in the OPEN section of an ATV website!

And the last time I checked, words dont take flesh off bone or cause uncontrolable bleeding. Stupid actions are stupid and Moronic people make stupid decisions everyday!

And for those comparing the suicide of a child with one of an adult, please! A 13 year old child has not the mental capacity to make proper judgements regarding life and death, hell they are barely sprouting peach fuzz. An adult knows the ramifactions of such an act and makes an adult decision. IMO, there are very damn few scenarios that suicide would be the only answer to, depression isnt one of them but sadly it is probably the leading cause.

I wouldnt have replied to this, but seeing you feel my comment was out of line and unhealthy, I wanted to spin it back on you since you felt stating my comment caused suicide...you sir are the epitome of ignorance.

btw, ive personally helped 3 or 4 kids from this site get help when they contacted me about feeling the need to use suicide as a last resort. one of them even required us to get the police in contact with his family. all of them are doing quite well now. so please, continue on bashing someone who has made a difference, as i will continue showing that suicide is not the answer.

[416exfreak]

Oh boy.

I agree with both Pappy and Wilkin. This kid wanted nothing more than to get attention on himself. By doing this in such a public place he knew everyone in the school would know about it. And seeings how it was at a school, he also knew that it would be on the news.

I'd say the kid is a complete dumbass, he shot himself with a .22 caliber pistol. It doesnt take a genious to see that, without a perfectly placed shot you'll live from that tiny bullet.

For everyone who is saying how we (the people who have no pity for this idiot) are just heartless and need to know more about suicide and how much it hurts. My uncle shot himself 2 rooms down the hall from me when I was 7 years old. My grandpa hung himself from a beam in his house when I was 10 and my cousin is now in a mental institiution because she wont stop swallowing pills. I do beleive I know a little bit about suicide.

Suicide is also not hereditary, its a triat that you aquire in life, because you think your overwhelemed with problems. These people that are suicidal...they are all lost causes, and if they want to commit suicide then they need to go ahead and do it. Kill themselves and noone else.

This kid would not have, and never will receive any form of sympathy from me. I will however pray for his family in hopes that thier pain and suffering will be eased. I feel sorry for the parents and the kids who found him.:ermm:

[Pappy]

They havent officially ruled his death a suicide. seems illogical for a child with no known problems to just up and kill himself. there could be alot more to the story. my view is based on the known facts.

i had a kid killed behind my house when i was 17, ended up being murder that was reported as a suicide. also had a friend killed while he was playing with a gun. its a crappy deal in any event, but to take your own life at such a tender age is CRAP! many parents around that would kill to have their child back that succumbed to an illness for the likes of suicide to get sorrow from me beyond the familys loss.

[HtFoxChick]

I feel for his family and friends. They are left with the suffering. I've seen marriages end up in divorse because of clildrens suicide. It's just plain sad.:(

[wilkin250r]

I wonder what drove him? Was it a girl, or was it his parents? It's got to be one or the other.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
I wonder what drove him? Was it a girl, or was it his parents? It's got to be one or the other.

suicide is the number one cause of death for those 10 to 17. any reason can be good enough of they feel strong enough about it.

id have to geuss a year, maybe 1987, we were dispatched to a shooting. upon arival we found a kid laid out in the snow with his head mostly missing. his parents were arguing (ongoing) and divorce was immenent. this day he wanted to hurt his parents so he got his dads 45, walked outside the window in the yard, hollared at his parents, and when they looked out at him, he pulled the trigger. total waste. he made his point to his parents and ruined his life and theirs. shamefull loss. yes, i feel it was a STUPID thing to do!

and growing up dealing with two divorces(one when i was 5 and another at 14) i know the pressures are immense . life deals you **** and you shovel it out of the way. how about suppressing sexual abuse, a bout with alcoholism when i was 14 and dealing with an abusive father? had the pistol in my hand a few times, but couldnt see where that would get me. the best thing i figured i could do was show the world i could hack it. now the world can kiss my *** because i proved them all wrong!

anyone that thinks i dont know about depression, suicide and more....keep geussing. you cant hurt me anymore then those that supposedly loved me hurt me so take your best shot. its taken 30 years for me to admit what i just did but there it is. no regrets...deal with it and move forward. if i can handle all that, you should be fine dealing with a break up or someone not liking the clothes you wear....;)

[400eXr1d3rZ]

He died today, he was on lifesupport and there was no brain activity.

Rest in Peace

Joseph "Big Joe" Lynn.

[tman12345]

Originally posted by Pappy
They havent officially ruled his death a suicide. seems illogical for a child with no known problems to just up and kill himself. there could be alot more to the story. my view is based on the known facts.

i had a kid killed behind my house when i was 17, ended up being murder that was reported as a suicide. also had a friend killed while he was playing with a gun. its a crappy deal in any event, but to take your own life at such a tender age is CRAP! many parents around that would kill to have their child back that succumbed to an illness for the likes of suicide to get sorrow from me beyond the familys loss.
at his age he was probably more apt to kill himself, because of maybe trying to fit in and be popular, i don't know anything about him but just a possibility.

[Anvil]

Just remember people - he was a kid, everyones entitled to thier opinion and there appears to be no shortage of armchair experts quick to fire off a round.

Kids don't always have the ability to work things out, thats why we don't let them drink, drive, have sex, vote, etc etc.

Just be thankfull its not your brother, son, freind.

[Toadz400]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
No, Pappy had it right. Or at least, half right.

Suicide isn't about solving all your problems. It isn't about ending your pain. It isn't about depression, or the inability to cope with life's obstacles.

It's revenge. It's about causing pain, not about relieving it.

Why do people leave suicide notes? To make sure that those responsible for his/her pain KNOW the reasons, to make those people feel guilty. It isn't "I want to you understand what I'm feeling", it's more like "I want to hurt you the way you hurt me".


Like this kid in question. Why did he do it at the school? Because he couldn't find anywhere else? Bull. He wanted to make a spectacle of it.

Sugar-coat it all you want, if it helps you sleep at night. But that's the sad reality of it. :ermm:

I have to agree with you and with Pappy to an extent.

I've been diagnosed with bi-polar depression where one minute I can be feeling the greatest I've ever felt and the next for no reason at all I don't even want to think about living. Of course I've had suicidal thoughts and have really contemplated it (even went through therapy, that's a waste of time) but probably the biggest reason why I never go through with anything is because I actually do think about other people besides myself. I know it'd absolutely kill my mom (probably literally) if she lost any of us kids and I just couldn't do that to her no matter how much pain I'm going through.

Obviously this kid wanted some attention and middle school really isn't that bad. High school was when I had my problems but I made it through alright. Everyone has a different mentality though, who knows what this kid was really thinking.

My prayers do go out to the family though as they probably don't deserve this.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by Pappy
suicide is the number one cause of death for those 10 to 17. any reason can be good enough of they feel strong enough about it.

id have to geuss a year, maybe 1987, we were dispatched to a shooting. upon arival we found a kid laid out in the snow with his head mostly missing. his parents were arguing (ongoing) and divorce was immenent. this day he wanted to hurt his parents so he got his dads 45, walked outside the window in the yard, hollared at his parents, and when they looked out at him, he pulled the trigger. total waste. he made his point to his parents and ruined his life and theirs. shamefull loss. yes, i feel it was a STUPID thing to do!

and growing up dealing with two divorces(one when i was 5 and another at 14) i know the pressures are immense . life deals you **** and you shovel it out of the way. how about suppressing sexual abuse, a bout with alcoholism when i was 14 and dealing with an abusive father? had the pistol in my hand a few times, but couldnt see where that would get me. the best thing i figured i could do was show the world i could hack it. now the world can kiss my *** because i proved them all wrong!

anyone that thinks i dont know about depression, suicide and more....keep geussing. you cant hurt me anymore then those that supposedly loved me hurt me so take your best shot. its taken 30 years for me to admit what i just did but there it is. no regrets...deal with it and move forward. if i can handle all that, you should be fine dealing with a break up or someone not liking the clothes you wear....;)

Just remember, not everyone is as strong willed or strong minded as you. You're crappy upbringing is why you are such a determined individual today. Thanks for your input. I enjoy seeing everyone's views on this topic. Whether it was right or wrong for this kid to do what he did, its done and over with now, and its always sad to see a kid so young go, no matter what.

[Toadz400]

Originally posted by Pappy
suicide is the number one cause of death for those 10 to 17. any reason can be good enough of they feel strong enough about it.

id have to geuss a year, maybe 1987, we were dispatched to a shooting. upon arival we found a kid laid out in the snow with his head mostly missing. his parents were arguing (ongoing) and divorce was immenent. this day he wanted to hurt his parents so he got his dads 45, walked outside the window in the yard, hollared at his parents, and when they looked out at him, he pulled the trigger. total waste. he made his point to his parents and ruined his life and theirs. shamefull loss. yes, i feel it was a STUPID thing to do!

and growing up dealing with two divorces(one when i was 5 and another at 14) i know the pressures are immense . life deals you **** and you shovel it out of the way. how about suppressing sexual abuse, a bout with alcoholism when i was 14 and dealing with an abusive father? had the pistol in my hand a few times, but couldnt see where that would get me. the best thing i figured i could do was show the world i could hack it. now the world can kiss my *** because i proved them all wrong!

anyone that thinks i dont know about depression, suicide and more....keep geussing. you cant hurt me anymore then those that supposedly loved me hurt me so take your best shot. its taken 30 years for me to admit what i just did but there it is. no regrets...deal with it and move forward. if i can handle all that, you should be fine dealing with a break up or someone not liking the clothes you wear....;)

Right on Pappy!

[bwamos]

My first instincts would be... the guy brought the gun to school. Something had him eaten up. It it was a suicide attempt, he chose to do it in the seclusion of the are outside of the school between the gym and another part of the building. Away from direct witnesses instead of in an area where it would be a public.

My initial reaction is... did he originaly have other plans? Decide against it, and went to plan B?

There's a lot more to this story... there always is.

I hope they figure out whatever it is for his sake.

[Toadz400]

Originally posted by bwamos
My first instincts would be... the guy brought the gun to school. Something had him eaten up. It it was a suicide attempt, he chose to do it in the seclusion of the are outside of the school between the gym and another part of the building. Away from direct witnesses instead of in an area where it would be a public.

My initial reaction is... did he originaly have other plans? Decide against it, and went to plan B?

There's a lot more to this story... there always is.

I hope they figure out whatever it is for his sake.

"Seclusion of the area outside of the school between the gym and another part of the building." How is that secluded? My idea of secluded would be the middle of the woods where tons of people aren't going to see you and they don't have to get the poor janitor to clean up the mess you just made.

Sucks the kid couldn't have dealt with this in any other way, but that was his choice and unfortunately it'll affect his family and loved ones for the rest of their lives.

I don't say RIP to this kid but once again my prayers go out to the family and close friends, they shouldn't have to go through this. That's the one thing that always keeps my head above water is thinking of my family, works every time I'm even thinking about something as dumb as suicide.

[SRH]

christ, i dont care how young he is, your will to live doesnt change from the time your born til you die its implanted in you from birth, if you dont have it you werent intended to be around when times get hard, and for some odd reason, society drags them along anyway.... the kid would of grown up to be a loose cannon or addict etc..... the world is overpopulated and its not suppose to be that way, yeah its cold

[416exfreak]

Now that this is over, watch the media turn around and blame this on Hard Rock or Heavy metal and video games.:o

It always happens.

Columbine- Marylin Manson and Doom
Amish school- Marylin Manson
VT- Marylin Manson

come to think of it, maybe it wont be heavy metal, just marylin manson...which im fine with.:macho

[Honda TRX250ex]

Originally posted by Mc. Muffin
Damn man, sorry to hear that. He will definitely be in my prayers.

[miller821]

dear sweet sweet pappy.....
just so you know the leading cause of death in teenagers is car wrecks... check your facts!

i never said suicide is the answer or that it is hereditary... thanks for putting those words in my mouth! depression on the other hand is hereditary.. trust me. i know.
in fact i strongly disagree with suicide.. but once someone has committed suicide... who are we to judge them?? isn't that GODS job??? i simply said that i did not agree with your statement.. i understand that you have gone through some rough things... but that doesn't mean that no one else has faced tragedy... we don't know what the boy went through or what drove him to that decision but obviously it was something that was a huge deal to him... you say that 13 year olds aren't capable of making decisions like that well obviously they do... to compare the mind set of a child to an adult is unfair. eachs' priorities are completely different from the others. to a kid breaking up with their "first love" is like getting a divorce is to an adult... although it seems minor in our eyes to the child it is severe... and in most cases of suicide its not for attention the person just wants the pain to stop....

i did not mean that YOU cause suicide what i meant was that if we all stopped criticizing one another and just took time to listen to each other maybe suicide rates would go down.... because the truth is words hurt worse than physical wounds... sure you can say that they are just words but the effects of peoples words are being shown day after day... look at all the self mutilations, the suicides, the murders.. when are people going to stop?

im sorry that your childhood was rough... but not only you hurt!!!!! maybe instead of just griping about it you could use your negative experience and turn it into a positive one by helping children that are in the same situation you were in.

[Pappy]

sweet pappy? dont kid yourself


your correct, suicide is now the 3rd leading cause...it shouldnt be in the top 50 for any age group!

THE TOP THREE CAUSES OF DEATH BY AGE GROUP

0-1 years:

Developmental and genetic conditions that were present at birth
Sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS)
All conditions associated with prematurity and low birth weight
1-4 years:

Accidents
Developmental and genetic conditions that were present at birth
Cancer
5-14 years:

Accidents
Cancer
Homicide
15-24 years:

Accidents
Homicide
Suicide


you stated it "runs" in your family, my mistake thinking you meant it was a common trait. sounds like you should not be dispensing advice seeing you are somehow prone to suicide? and to somehow make it all ok because he had problems...think about what impression you leave on those that may be considering suicide as an option.(common sense)

maybe if more adults actually started telling our youth what is and isnt acceptable, suicide rates would drop, self mutilations would end. when our younger generations are once again TAUGHT that murder is not acceptable maybe those will stop. I dont see many folks doing anything besides telling these kids that its all ok...ITS NOT. 14 year old girls are allowed out to the mall looking like some whore off the street:confused: kids are allowed to look like thugs as they enter middle school? drugs and alcohol are acceptable, after all everyone does it? its ok if you do kill yourself because after all, who are we to judge? Maybe the 10 commandments could give a bit of advice for those willing to just understand them, and this is coming from me who isnt a bible thumper!


maybe more critizism and some common sense parenting would help this world out a great deal. there is no respect taught, no manners and very little real world advice given by parents who are in such a rush to keep up with the jones next door that actually RAISING your proginy got lost!

and yes, a 13 year old is not on the same mental level as an adult with regards to life and death, they prove that daily with such actions as killing themselves and as of late others over issues that as a society we should be taking on horns first!

how many folks gave sympathy to the guy who killed 33 students at VA Tech? after all, we dont know what issues he was dealing with. Ok, he is older, so lets see how many hands raise when Eric Kliebold and Dylan Harris's name is mentioned? They had issues correct? do you feel pity based soley on the fact they had problems?

Sure, they took their problems out on others before killing themselves but the root of the issue is the same and the last action is the same. You draw the line of acceptability and thats that. each time the bar is raised, so is the level of acceptability. it shouldnt be this way! one kid dies so its not as bad the next time and on and on and on. sooner or later someone needs to stand up and tell these kids that they need to knock of the BS and sit them down and bring them up in a way that doesnt have 13 year old kids putting a gun in their mouth PERIOD. anyone who feels that suicide is the answer for typical teenage issues needs to make an appointment with the shrink! this type of behavior should never be condoned, it gives the appearences that it is an acceptable "Out"

the chart above shows that for his age group, suicide doesnt even enter the figures, this is what makes me so angry!!! as a parent i see it forming with each report of another suicide....hell we accept 14 year old girls getting knocked up now!(I dont but society sure does!) maybe if people would tell their 14 year old daughter she dresses and acts like a whore maybe she would get the picture and not have her legs spread and ruin her life!


its people like YOU who drive people to committing suicide
I think you need to rethink your wording if you want to retract the above statement from your reply to me. You speak of cruel words and critizms and then make a personal attack. It doesnt bother me from any stand point because as i stated, words dont bother me, but it does sum up your mentality in regards to this issue.

ill state it again, this kid was stupid stupid stupid for killing himself. and yes, he was a moron and an idiot for ending his life before it ever began. argue that all you like, but to do so is to condone his actions.

btw...homocide...nice to see getting waxed before your 17 in this country ranks so high. yeah, ill listen to those raising these nutjobs ...when hell freezes over.

Excerpts from Your Adolescent on Teen Suicide:

Before the mid-1970s, suicide by adolescents appeared to be a rare event; now one out of ten teens contemplates suicide, and nearly a half million teens make a suicide attempt each year. Sadly, suicide has become the third leading cause of death for high-school students. Indeed, the actual rate of death by suicide may be higher, because some of these deaths have been incorrectly labeled “accidents.”

[Anvil]

I don't think anyone is condoning suicide pappy, its just that irrational minds allow people to do things that rational minds cannot understand - and suicide is one of them. Calling those people stupid, morons and idiots just shows ignorants and is unproductive.


Your are correct common sense parenting would help this world out - but that's to assume that those parents have common sense in the first place, and there is the root of many problems, I am continually amazed at the poor example parents set for thier children.

Maybe an open philosophy thread could be in order.

[Pappy]

me calling them a name has no validity, they are dead! they ceased being able to be influenced when they ended their life! letting others know that people actually do not approve of such actions can be very productive...because those folks arent dead! telling a dead kid he was stupid isnt my goal, its sending a message to those thinking about it!

[That400exGuy]

Originally posted by 416exfreak
Amen brother. If someone is that far gone that they are commiting suicide then they're a lost cause. Just let them do it and get theirself out of the gene pool.:ermm:

x2 why would you think of doing that?

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by Pappy
how many folks gave sympathy to the guy who killed 33 students at VA Tech? after all, we dont know what issues he was dealing with.

Unfortunately, there is a great deal of truth behind this statement.

Sure, some of you might try to make a vast distinction between the VA Tech and this kid. But psychologically, there is very little difference. In either case, the person had some sort of troubling issue, and took that issue to a violent conclusion.

I don't remember anybody "praying" for sympathy, but shouldn't we? After all, he must have been in terrible emotional pain, just like Joseph Lynn....

[Pappy]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
Just remember, not everyone is as strong willed or strong minded as you. You're crappy upbringing is why you are such a determined individual today. Tha

weak or strong is irrelevant. i dont blame my problems on others, i merely accepted responsibility for my own life and took steps to correct it. it would be to easy to blame others for leading me down a bad road, but in the end, all you have in this world is you covering your own ***. (remember that the strong survive in nature for a reason, but in all honesty as thinking creatures we have the ability to manipulate our own lives for good and bad and are not regulated to simple rules of the natural order)

therapy always tells the person they are the victim...victim of what? sorry mrs smith, you got smashed because your a drunk and ran over mr jones and killed him, BUT ITS OK, your the victim! you drink because of an abusive husband! instead of taking the action needed to get right, you turned to an "Out". sure you will pay with jail time, but its not your fault! umm...it is her fault no matter how much candy you dress her mind with. DWI is at the fore front now of the "get ahead of the problem" type of therapy and as a society we have begun to show DWI is unacceptable! its taken over 20 years but it is happening.

the hard part is getting ahead of suicide as in this case, noone saw it coming. however, giving those that are still impressionable the image that its not acceptable or an accepted means of dealing with a problem is no different then telling kids drugs and drinking are bad, except that when they chose suicide they usually dont get a second chance at life! and if you look at the statistics, it damn well needs to be acknowledged and these kids need to be told way ahead of time. will it end it? NO!!! but it sure could lead to a few getting help or knowing that they have options!

at his age he was probably more apt to kill himself, because of maybe trying to fit in and be popular

when did fitting in with dead people help! he was 13! THIS IS WHAT HAS ME FIRED UP! what goes so wrong at such a young age that leads to this?!!! to me this issue is alarming and all im trying to say is THINK ABOUT IT!!! this is not a teenage issue, its a societal issue that seems to be growing right along with murder/ suicide at many levels. the latest rage is for husbands to off their kids to get back at a soon to be ex-wife! hey its cool though right...i mean the husband had some serious issues and problems so we can all understand him hanging his 6 year old before killing himself....i think not.

and sadly, i think the reason most dont speak out is two fold....

1) we dont want to implant suicide into someones line of thinking if they are not considering it (1 in 10 contemplates it...i dont think we are letting the cat out of the bag do you?)

2) for the most part, suicide is a personal issue and when carried out, it physically affects that individual. ofcourse when combined with other factors, its can lead to the deaths of many as at Columbine and Va Tech and a myriad of others places as of late.

Ive said all im saying, walk away from this thread with something new to consider versus the same old "poor me" pat on the back type of reaction to this issue. If you need help, for gods sake get it, because when your dead, your dead forever.

[SRH]

its unfortunate so many of you dont understand what pappy is saying , its not a opinion its fact


peoples thoughts are so clouded with the stuff the media, tv etc pounds in to peoples heads, its what complicates life....

[Anvil]

Somethings in life are not quite as black and white as some folk would like to think they are, There is however a little truth on both sides of any argument but like most issues in life the truth lies in the middle ground.

[700bRad]

I agree with Pap's and everyone else who said "what a moron". this kid must be sofa king we todd it. but it seems (if he lives through this) that God might be giving him another chance.

[07250ex]

Originally posted by 700bRad
I agree with Pap's and everyone else who said "what a moron". this kid must be sofa king we todd it. but it seems (if he lives through this) that God might be giving him another chance.

hes already dead ...

[Robin Hood]

Suicide is a permanent fix to a temporary problem.

Killing yourself or another person is never the right answer, under any circumstances.

[Cr85rRida]

ok, the kids dead now. He was a coward for killing himself and hurting those who knew him.....we all know this. Now lets move on. Why waste our life arguing about how he and others take their own lives?

[my88r]

Originally posted by Cr85rRida
ok, the kids dead now. He was a coward for killing himself and hurting those who knew him.....we all know this. Now lets move on. Why waste our life arguing about how he and others take their own lives?

[Toadz400]

Originally posted by Robin Hood
Suicide is a permanent fix to a temporary problem.

Killing yourself or another person is never the right answer, under any circumstances.

Totally agree.

Unless you knew you were going to be captured and tortured in horrible, horrible ways then killed...I'd probably take the easy way out, I'll admit it.