Gibson

[T-R-X]

I just got my gibson a-arms for my r in, with axis triple rate shocks. They bolt up great, no problems, and have high quality welds. But one thing that ruined my day is that, when i put my 4 and 1 rims on, the kingpin(replaces the top ball joint) and the a-arms hits the rim(so when i thghten the lug nuts, the rim will not move). ONe thing i heard though- you need 400ex spindles, i dont have those i think this is the problem. I was told that the 250r spindles work, but will have some bump steer. I am confused, im going to mess with it in the morn. But if you have a 400, or 250r with 400 ex spindles, they go togeather great.

[QuadRacer041]

i got a gibson frame, and already sent it back to kandk, the thing is a peice of $hit. welds sucked, looks like it was mig welded and all the stock was melted. all the cross tubes were un-even.and the sub frame was so bent a blind man could have seen it, the top rear shock mount was welded on at an angle, and the top front shock mount bar was also en-even, lower on one side then the other.i dont understand how kandk could send it out like that.it was missing the head stay and enginge mounts,kandk said use the stock ones(hello).it didnt have a hole drilled and tapped in the frame at the foot peg cross tube for a rubber chain slider to mount to.it was a real heavy frame which i liked bescause im sure it would be strong, but the quility of craftsmanship was very very disappointing considering the money it cost----$2,300.00.
i would NOT recommend buying one at all.
heres a pic of how tweaked the sub frame was.

[QuadRacer041]

heres another.

[QuadRacer041]

cant see any flaws in this pic but........

[QuadRacer041]

oh yeah one more thing,
no serial # or title came with it.

[T-R-X]

wow, thats not good, did you call kandk , what did thye say?
The a-arms are great though, just need to grind here and there to make them fit with 250r spindles(ha ha). 2300 is a lot of $$$$ to be tweaked from the showroom floor.

[mrusk]

quad041 i am shocked to here this and see the pictures! I have only heard good stuff about gibson. I know a guy who got a gibson frame for a yzf engine and said it was awesome craftsman ship. I am sure u must have a lemon or something.

matt

[QuadRacer041]

they kinda didnt beleive me, they said send it back and we'll take a look at it. but like a said a blind man can see that. they told me they were going to credit my credit card, that was on friday and i checked this morning and they havent yet.

[QuadRacer041]

i dont know rusk,,, maybe.
all i know is it looked like a piece of kaa kaa to me and it left a sour teaste in my mouth, i would never buy one of there products again.
am also very pissed at kandk, they had an oh well attitude, ive lost a bunch of respect for them.

[mrusk]

I just cant belive k and k sent it to you, they oviously should of seen what was wrong with the frame when they sent did. When you talk to kandk make sure u talk to shawn the owner or chris.

matt

[Dave400ex]

That is Crazy. $2300 for a Bent Frame. Man I was starting to think Gibson might be ok. Well I will never buy any Gibson stuff now. I guess I`ll stick with Laeger, Roll Design, or Walsh. What kind of Frame are you going to get Now? Maybe you should call Duncan and Order a Roll Design Setup. (Yeah Right) I haven`t heard anything bad about Arens Frame. They are also Cheaper. I will never Order from KandK ATV. This isn`t the First Time I have heard they Suck.

[mrusk]

So Quad041 are u going to buy another frame?

matt

[QuadRacer041]

i delt with shawn and chris about the frame, and i usually have good things to say about kandk i do alot of bussiness with them but i not sure if i will continue to.
actially warrior ive had an areans frame on order for a while now, i ordered it in november, but the season is here and still no frame. every time i talk to arens they say in a week or so, but nothin yet, so i was trying to get something now, im going to try to find a lonestar.
also i think kandk tryed to pull a fast one on me, they said they were going to send me a lonestar baja frame for the same price as the gibson but they didnt have a title for it?????????so i said no way, how can you have a brand new frame but not have a title, i think what they were going to try to do is send me a standard MX from instead of the baja which is cheaper then a baja frame.
im very disapointed with kandk.

[mrusk]

If your going to get a LSR frame make sure u get a baja! The regular lsr mx chasis arnt good for ****.
Good luck man. And why are u getting a new frame, is yours shot?

matt

[Dave400ex]

I know you like Lonestar and all, but the Frames are the Worst Product they make. If you do go Lonestar, go with the Baja Frame like Mrusk said. It is Stronger. Laeger is the Frame I would buy. He is really backed up right now though. Walsh, Roll Design, or Arens are the only other Frames I would buy besides Laeger. Hard Choice. Let us know who you go With.

[beerock]

I would like to reitterate what mrusk said, but im gonna take it up a notch.

DONT BUY A LONESTAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

there geometry is bad!!!!!

I can tel you this, travis spader started the season on a lonestar, he switched and got a roll. because he kept breaking front ends on the LSR.

get a arens, they last longer than laeger,there known as the "million mile frame"

arens and a lobo 2 frotn end is a good ticket...

[Dave400ex]

Well if you are going to get a Arens Frame and a Lobo Front End you might as well just Buy the Complete Roll Design Lobo Frame.

[beerock]

ha, the lobo frame cost alot more than a arens frame and a lob2 front end

[Dave400ex]

I know that. A Arens Frame is $1800. The Lobo Front End is $2500 and the Rear End is $1600. That`s $5900. You still need a Steering Stem. Another $350 for a Roll Design. I think the Roll Design Complete Frame is around $8300. If you have $5900 to Spend I would just save a little more and have the Best of Everything.

[T-R-X]

Even though the frame might have been defected, i was at k and k this weekend, i saw some of the gibson frames all put togeather, they look like high quality. Rember this is a first year product, give it a year. But the a-arms and the axis triple rate shocks work mint on a stock 400, 250r chassis( i have proof for the r i will get pics in soon), for the r you just need ex spindles(dont need the 400 calipers, just the adapter paltes so you can use the 250r calipers on the 400ex hubs, and they are an excellent pair of a-arms. I am actually very happy with what i bought. The design on the arms really works, gives me a lot more ground clearence. They will improve every year. Im sure that every a-arm/chassis company out there had thier faults.

[beerock]

Originally posted by WarriorMan
I know that. A Arens Frame is $1800. The Lobo Front End is $2500 and the Rear End is $1600. That`s $5900. You still need a Steering Stem. Another $350 for a Roll Design. I think the Roll Design Complete Frame is around $8300. If you have $5900 to Spend I would just save a little more and have the Best of Everything.

$2000+ is more than "a little more"
you could have a fully ported and complete hinson component,motor for 2000

[QuadRacer041]

a rool is out of the question, its just too much money for me to spend, im not racing the pro circut, its just not necissary for me although it is buy far the best setup.
warroior, laeger isnt makin frames anymore so thts not an option either.and i know that the baja is better as i said earlier in this post i didnt what the ls frame from kandk because that had no title to prove that it was a baja frame.
trx, the frame i got definatly looked beefy(strong) but it was NOT repeat NOT high quility. welds were poor things were not straight it was junk, thats things you work out before you start selling it. did you see those pics i posted?how could kandk let it go out like that??????
beerock, i think the reason spader went back to the roll is because he had been using it so long thats what he was confortable on. its easy to go back to what won you the #1 plate not to mention im sure he doesnt pay full price for it. as for breakin the front ends, i think its because he was using a +3 or +4 with regular ball joints, at leaste what what he was using when i saw him practicing at the orv park llast year right before the gnc season started. i dont thing the frame geomitry is bad just that stock ball joints dont have that much travel.

[shawn]

As usual there is a lot missing from this story here by Mr. Russo. Mr. Russo received his frame and immediately called up and said that the gas tank wouldn't mount up. After about 10 minutes of explaining to him how to bolt up the gas tank he figured it out. He then called back & said the sub frame was bent. We asked if the box was damaged or anything. He said he did not think so. After talking with him personally for a couple of minutes we knew he was not happy. We then told him that we would send a call tag and get it back here and check it out. (A call tag means that we have fed ex pick it up & we paid the shipping) He said he wanted a Lonestar & I had told him that we had a stock link Baja chassis that was a 2000 model and we would give it to him at the same price as the Gibson (2200.00 which was the price that we gave it to him for). He was skeptical as to whether a frame was a Baja or a MX. We told him there was a 8 pd weight difference and an extra gusset that is placed by Lonestar on the chassis. He said OK. We received the gibson frame back in which the subframe was bent a quarter of an inch on one side. It must have bent in the original shipping. The sad part is that even though we took care of the problem as fast as we could Mr. Russo could not even have the courtesy of boxing the frame up the way it was shipped. When we received it the rear subframe mounts were all bent over b/c they were sticking out of the box. The nerf bar mounts were bent because they were sticking out of the box. Then he called back and asked if there was a title with the Lonestar frame. We explained that chassis comes with a certificate of origin from Lonestar and he would get an invoice for it. He said w/o a title he did not want it. Massachusetts does not title ATV's. If you want a title for an ATV you have to take the certificate of origin or invoice to your RMV and title it.
The even sadder part is that Mr. Russo chose to bad mouth us & the product after we tried to accommodate him any way we could. We sent a call tag out the day he called and the frame was picked up the next day and returned to us. We did not try to sell him an MX frame it was a Baja that was off of our display bike in which we stripped to send it to him b/c it was the only stock link that we have. As you can see from Mr Russo's pics the welds on the frame are perfect. They are tigged not migged. The fact that the subframe got bent in shipping is too bad and we tried to rectify the situation as best we could. If any one is interested in seeing one of the frames we will be at the National This weekend in GA with a couple of chassis.
And for everyone else out there that is building a quad. If you have a hard time figuring out how to mount the gas tank up maybe you should consult someone for help before attempting such a project.

As for the comments on Travis Spader. He switched to a Roll front end but used a Lonestar Chassis for the whole year

Shawn Kirby
K&K ATV

[JustRace]

This sight really reaches out and touches people.

I have a strong feeling that this thread is gonna reach the 10 page mark real quick..

Oh,,and thanks K & K for the update on this issue...

[beerock]

exactly he switched to roll, because he kept breaking lonestars front ends.

[QuadRacer041]

when i called kandk back about the gas tank, i spoke to shawn and explain it didnt line up because when you put the front bolt on the 2 rears were quite a bit back so i needed to remove the front bolt in order to pull it back far enough.it was also missing the head stay and motor mounts which was the original reason for the call.shawn failed to coment on the top rear shock mount being welded on crucked and top front shock mount being welded on a slant downward.i doubt that could have happened during shipping.also what shawn failed to comment on was there was no spot to mount the chain slide on the botton of the frame by the footpeg.he also failed to coment about the frame not having a serial #.when i called back about these problems about 15 minutes later, shawn was not avalible, i spoke to chris not shawn. and i know what a called tag is, he made it sound like he was doing me a favor, the product i recieved was dameged and he sold it to me thats what i belive he was abligated to do.as for wanting a lonestar frame, i called the next day to ask if they had any other frames avalible he said they didnt have any gibson's or new lonestar's but that had a 2001 NOT 2000 baja frame on a bike that was on the floor and it was never ridin.he said he'd sell it to me for the same price but id have to pay shipping, and i agreed. i asked when he was going to send it out, that was on a tuesday,shawn said they were a little slow so he was going to have the guys rip it down that day.that same afternoon fedex showed to pick up the box which actually was boxes taped together, part lonestar box, part cannondale box, the frame and sub frame were packed up just as i recieved it only thing that wasnt the same was when i got it the subframe was wrapped in plastic wrap which i needed to cut off to get off.the box was stuffed with peices of cardboard to keep it in place, which is what i used to pack it up.when i called back on thrusday to see what the statis was, shawn said that the got the frame back yesterday(wednesday) and didnt open it up yet.now if that were me and someone said my frame was bent i would have opened it right away.he said call me back tomarrow and will see were we are with the lonestar frame.i called back on friday and spoke a lady and i asked if they took the bike apart yet, she put me on hold then came back and said they were going to hopefully rip it apart this weekend and it will go out monday or tuesday, thats when i asked about the title she again put me on hold and came back to say that there is no title. i asked why they didnt have it she said because there is no title, well i called and spoke to lonestar i said to her and they said that there certanliy is a title or a certificate of origin which according to lonestar was the same thing.i wanted to make sure the frame i as going to get was infact a baja and not a mx and lonestar said the way to tell for sure is it will say it on the title.my freind bought a lonestar frame and he has a title which in fact says baja on it.she didnt have anawnser for me so i said forget because i felt that i might have been takin for a ride.and about the welds, of course from a picture and with fresh powder coat over them they look fine, but if you look up close you can tell they are very sloppy.
as you bad mouthing kandk,
up till this frame problem, i always felt kandk was a very good compamy they had quick service always awnsered questions.i just said i was disapionted with the way this panned out and i wanted to make sure i was really getting wait shawn said i was getting, because even on there web page which has a picture of the frame together it even says MX frame not baja. shawn did explain about the weight differnce but how could i campare i only ordered a baja, i didnt have a mx one to hold in the other hand to see the weight differnce.he also made a comment about an extra gusset but when i talked to lonestar they said the the gusset's change slitly from year to year so that still doesnt tell me for sure its a baja frame.

[T-R-X]

K and k has always been straight foreward with every one i have know. I have never had a question they couldnt answer, and their customer service is the best there is. I highly doubt the frame was sent out made wrong.

[QuadRacer041]

i guess the frame bent itself or must have been dropped off the top of the fed ex building.

[Dave400ex]

Quad041, just don`t Order from KandK ATV anymore. After getting a Bent Gibson Frame from them I would of never even thought about Buying another Frame from them. A lot of Places sell Lonestar. Buy it from a Different Place.

Sorry to hear about the gibson frame. I have a roll- design quad it works very well. I know what you mean when you say it's a lot of cash. IT'S TOO MUCH!!!! If I could do it all over I would Get a stock spec quad fram (Arens would be my first choice) then Lonestar and so on. As far as Gibson go's I know it's hear say but a friend of mine has done some work with him and he said " Not one of his frames are the same" I take this as a gigging problem. That's what I have heard and from what I saw from your pic's this may be true. One more thing, If you are buying a frame or a-arms ect. Doller for dollar for dollar you may want to stick with some one who has been around for some time. Just because Mr Gibson has a frame ready to ship NOW is kind of scarry. Arens and so on are on the MONEY! Good luck to ya!

[mrusk]

Racer101 your ken campbell right? Well i am the kid that bought that stock 88 R off of you in May. Its all apart now, i should have it back together in the next couple of weeks.


So your saying that with your Lobo the advantage over an arens does not out weigh the cost difference? I am just curious.

Matt

Hello Matt, I hope the quad is doing well. What I mean by Roll vers Aren or a stock geometry 250R is. I have rode bolth my roll and the arens, and i feel with the correct components such as the roll front end with the axis shocks work well on bolth bikes. I feel faster on the Arens bike with the roll components and axis scocks vers the roll chassis. Spending the BIG money on the Roll chassis may not be the way to go. You can make a great race quad by building off a stock geometry frame such as a 250R with good bolt ons like the Roll,Leagers and lonestar with ZPS or axis ect. But rember set up is important, knowing how to set up the shocks, tow in and caster and camber will make or break a good riding quad.

[T-R-X]

Here it is

[Juggalo]

wow is that fullbore with the headlight assembly? how did you manage that one? can you take a pic with night vision turned off on the cam?

[T-R-X]

Fullbore doesnt make a headlight model anymore. I originally ordered a full set of FullBore from trinity racing, because no one else i knew carried fullbore. So i waited 4 months, nothing came, they kept saying they will send it the next day. Finally i got the front piece of plastic. The rear was a nother story, they said they lost my information, and sold my rear set, so i looked for other fullbore dealers, (and found out kandk was now selling them)when i originally orderd the set, k and k didnt carry fullbore. I got the rear plastic in two days after i ordered it. Thats the story. I am looking to sell the headlight piece because i dont really need it for motocross.
ill post another pic w/o the night vision.

[Dave400ex]

Racer101, do you have any Pictures of your Quad? It sounds Awesome. Have you ever ridden a 250R with the Laeger T-Pin Front End? I just wanted to know how the T-Pin compares to the Lobo.

T-R-X, that looks very Nice. What kind of Shocks are you Running? What all is done to yours?

[T-R-X]

The shocks i am running are Axis triple rates(19 inch shock), with comp, preload, and rebound adj. My engine is pretty much stock- besides v force reeds+valve, cr 250r head gasket, Ls axle, fmf pipe and silencer, steel braided break lines- they dont have a junction box, they go directly to the calipers(they are great), renthal bars uni filter, weisco piston/ rings on the stock bore. Powdercoated frame, and guessted, Ac pro peg nerf bars, stock 88 swingarm- hopefuly it will hold up for this season as well as the stock rear shock. There might be a few more minor mods, but thats pretty much it. And Gibson a-arms.

[Dave400ex]

It sounds Nice. You got about all of the Chassis Done. Get a Swingarm and Rear Shocks and you should have it Done. Then you can Mod the Motor Out.

[QuadRacer041]

this is racer101 at walden mx track in ny

[QuadRacer041]

racer101, guess what brand axle that is!

[QuadRacer041]

so much for this turning into a 10pager huh rico?

[Dave400ex]

That is a Very Nice 250R. Man, I would love to have that. Is that a Durablue Axle?

[QuadRacer041]

haha, good guess,
of course its a durabreak.

[Dave400ex]

On a Quad that Nice I would think he has a RPM Axle. What Kind does he have Now?

[QuadRacer041]

lonestar

[Dave400ex]

That would be my Second Choice. I think RPM is the Best.

[T-R-X]

Hey quad041, were you at the walden race this year when it rained like crazy, i think i rember who you are, were you parked on the right when you enter the parking lot, with the white trailor. I was the one in the tractor trailor.

[QuadRacer041]

no, we havent been to walden yet this year.we'll probably be there for the next one.

[Dave400ex]

Quad041, do you Guys Race any of the Nationals?

[T-R-X]

My r

[Dave400ex]

That looks Mean. Those A-Arms are Weird looking. I have never seen any A-Arms like that. Looks Good.

[QuadRacer041]

last year some of my freinds did georgia, but i was laid up with a broken ankle, we will probably do mt morris this year.

[T-R-X]

warrior, they are the Gibson a-arms. They work great.

[Dave400ex]

I can`t Wait for Red Bud. I want to see some of those CRF440`s.

T-R-X, I knew those were Gibson, I just have never seen A-Arms that looked like that. Very Cool.

[kabd69667]

Hey T R X, you shoudl cut off that headlight thing and put on a carbon fiber hood...that would make it really sweet

[T-R-X]

Do you think it would be that hard?- i have been thinking about that idea. i just dont want to cut to much and mess the front piece up. It would look good

[Dave400ex]

All the Guys that have put them on their 400`s haven`t had much trouble. It shouldn`t be to Hard. It would Look really Sweet on your 250R.