question.

[Showcase]

i have a question about the intake on my 87250r. i was riding one day...and it just quit...cleaned the carb....started right up....10 minutes later died...havent got it started since....there is a crack in the intake boot, do you think it could be not starting because of that?

[cdrookie]

if it's cracked the whole way through it will definately be hard to start, and will ruin the engine fast.

if it's just weather cracked it won't cause that problem but will need to be replaced soon.

[Showcase]

yea its cracked all the way through like 3mm in.... so i should buy a new one of them? and it will work?

[cdrookie]

yes you need a new one and i don't know if it will start. i know it won't run long, IF AT ALL, with a cracked manifold.

[RedRider23]

yeah it sounds like your boot is wore out. just to make sure thats what it is. you could use duck tape or black tape. tape it up and see if that will stop it. then you will know what you gotta do. but dont be ghetto and leave the tape on haha

[Showcase]

ok thanks, ill have to order one of them.

[Showcase]

well, i got a intake boot, and i put it in and it still wont start =\ ahh any other ideas?

[honda380]

if it starts, runs till it gets hot, than dies; then it could be an electrical problem. most likely the coil, the easiest thing to do is take one off a friends and try it on yours rather than test the coil becuase i found it is rather hard if you dont know what your doing. try that out. Corey

[Showcase]

wont even starr\t =\ im the only one i know in my area with a r, damnnnn

[Scott-300ex]

You could try and pull start it.

But I've dealt with broken boots on Warriors and you need a new one and it should run.

[Showcase]

i got a new boot and it still wont start =\

[cdrookie]

does it have good spark and compression? the reeds good? is it getting fuel?

[redrider03]

Check your plug. maybe its fouled. Or just try changing it.

[Showcase]

i tried all teh stuff you keep saying there must be soemthing really wrong. its got compression, and spark, the reeds are fine. and its getting fuel you knwo that because the plugs are wet with gas but it just wont start.

[Aceman]

How many pounds of compression? Are you just guessing by kicking it over with your foot?

[redrider03]

Try cleaning out your carb. Maybe one of the floats is stuck. Or it could be your CDI box. Now that I think of it I had some similar problems, and I replaced mine and thats what it was. If it is, be gald you have a Honda. They're about $200 cheaper than a yammaha CDI box.

[redrider03]

Oh yea. You said it's getting gas because the plug is wet. Is it a black or dark looking wet, cause if it is, then your plugs are def fouled.

[86 Quad R]

Originally posted by Aceman
How many pounds of compression? Are you just guessing by kicking it over with your foot?

if all else checks out as you say then i'd have to stick a compression gage on there and see just how many psi's it has at his point. :cool:

[Showcase]

its a brand new plug in there. i dont have a compression tester...but i can try to find one. would it still be the cdi even know that i take it off and it still has spark?

[readybeartoe]

Before you spend more money than you need to, check all you wires and connections. (CDI, Coil wire to spark plug boot, EVERYTHING!)
I kicked for 30 mins. one day just to find out one of my connections was dirty and not fully connected. It looked and felt like it was fine but wasn't. I took sand paper to the frame at the ground connection for a stronger connection and Sealed EVERY connection with eletrical silicone grease to keep out dirt and moisture. made sure it was ALL Tight!!! and it started on the 1st kick!
If this doesn't work take off your stator cover and check for moisture. (did you ride in the mud and water when it quit on you?) A friend of mine just "presure washed" his quad (and some how) got a bunch of water in his stator cover !$%^! and his was doing the same thing.

Hopefully you'll just try another spark plug and it will start. You will find bad ones in the bunch ya know even if it's New?

I know the spark plug is wet but :Have you tried the old "gas on a rag in the airbox???" just to see if it would start for a minute? If it does start and dies it could be floats sticking like some one else said. tap on the bottom of the carb hard with the but end of a screw driver.

We really need to know what you HAVE tried already....?
I'M curious..and just trying to help.
How long have you had it and when was the last rebuid?

[Showcase]

i have tried a couple different plugs so its not the plug im pretty sure. yea i took off the stator cover and it was wet in there....whoever had it before me put hot glue instead of putting a gasket in there so it looks like it was getting wet and such, and yes i was in a wet area when it quit....does that mean my stator is bad? its all dry by now and stuff. idk if its bad. thanks for the help guys...im just on a hold on and hate it!

also i bought the machine about 2 months ago at a swap meet. and i was told the engine was rebuilt 8-10 hours ago and i probably put 2 hours on it.

[Showcase]

anyone?

[readybeartoe]

Since you got the time? Take the stator off and clean it. I would take it to an Electrical store that rebuilds starters and stators and have them test it before buying one off ebay. Try looking in the phone book for Ram Electrics. They do this. look through the yellow pages and you might find others. Any of them could probley rebuild it for less than a new one.:)

[86 Quad R]

have a manual? if not, get one or down load it off line. the money you'll spend having "someone" else test the components will pay for one. then test all the components and see if they meet spec. :cool:

[Aceman]

What happened to properly checking the compression?

Just because you don't have a compression tester doesn't mean you get to skip this step, go buy a tester!!

He ran this quad lean for who knows how long and now it won't start. Why would anyone suspect ignition problems first? He even said he has spark!

[Showcase]

i didnt run it lean. i had troubles with it fouling plugs for a long time because it was to rich.....but then i checked stuff and jetted it down and the plugs were coming out perfect.

[Scott-300ex]

Yeh if he has spark wouldn't his CDI box and even wet stator still be fine, although he should dry it out but if its givin spark it shouldn't be ignition.

Go to Auto Zone and rent a Compression Tester. Thats wut I did cuz they always brag about their "FREE RENTAL" Which they made me pay $32 for it, then when I returned it they gave me my money back.

Go get one from auto zone and pull the carb off or hold it wide open when you kick it, and give us the #'s.

[Showcase]

okk, ill go into there tommarow and see if i can rent one.

[Showcase]

ok, i got a compression tester...i pluged er in and everything, held the throttle wide open, gave it one good kick and it went up to 60, lbs/per sq.in then i kicked it a couple more times and it went up every time...how many times do i kick it before i get a accurate reading?


ive never done this before.

[Showcase]

ok, i kept kicking it with wide open throttle, and it stopped at like 210....but it is like 15 degrees here, does this sound okay?

[stumpy]

You have compression. Just for a quick sanity check. I had a problem with my bike not starting. Was getting gas, had spark, and compression and so on. My ignition coil high tension wire had come loose from the coil pack. So when I pulled the plug and cap to check for spark I had it. Then when placing the plug back in and seating the plug boot back on, I was pulling the wire back out just enough to break connection. The coil had prong on it that basically stabs the high tension wire. In my case, the rubber/plastic strap that holds the wire had deteriorated and was not holding wire back on. Pull the coil and check this. You should have .1-.2 ohms across the connection with coil out-nothing connected to it. Check for continuity from the terminals to plug tip in boot. This shouldn;t take more than 15 minutes. Like I said, just a sanity check before you go much deeper chasing the problem.

[312R1]

Originally posted by Showcase
ok, i kept kicking it with wide open throttle, and it stopped at like 210....but it is like 15 degrees here, does this sound okay?


Your compression is good..what fuel are you running and type of plug, gap?

[Showcase]

im using the plug that the manual sais to use, have it gapped at about .20....when i got it the guy i bought it from said it had 180lbs compression, so i was running just 92 octane. but with it like this it should be race gas right? could the compression been so high because its so cold?

[312R1]

Originally posted by Showcase
im using the plug that the manual sais to use, have it gapped at about .20....when i got it the guy i bought it from said it had 180lbs compression, so i was running just 92 octane. but with it like this it should be race gas right? could the compression been so high because its so cold?


With it having 210lbs, I would run VP c-12. I would also run a NGK BR9EV gapped at .028. You can also use a Champion N6YC gapped at .028 also. I wouldn't think the air temp would change the compression.

-Steve

[Showcase]

i have nowhere around me where i can get that vp c-12 stuff, but i can get 110 octane pretty easily. ill have to get those plugs tommarow.

[312R1]

Originally posted by Showcase
i have nowhere around me where i can get that vp c-12 stuff, but i can get 110 octane pretty easily. ill have to get those plugs tommarow.


The 110 octane..what brand of race fuel?

[Showcase]

im not sure, theres only one place around here that sells it, its a shell. thats the only place i can find with it =\

[wilkin250r]

You've got compression.

Are you absolutely SURE you have spark? You pulled the plug, held it against the head while you kicked (or someone else kicked), and are absolutely certain you saw spark?

And you checked the reeds? Actually pulled them off and looked at them?

If you passed all the above tests, then pull off your air filter and shoot a quick shot (half second) of Starting Fluid into your intake boot (Carburetor cleaner will also work). It should fire for at least a couple seconds. You shouldn't need to give it any throttle at all while you do this.

If it still doesn't start, even with starting fluid, then you don't have a spark.

[Showcase]

i am a hundred percent sure i have spark.....and for the reeds, i took them out and looked at them, whenthey are bad you will be able to see light through them right? one of them you could see light through and the rest you couldnt.

[Showcase]

i just worked on it for like 4 hours today, messing around, trying different things....and it just wont go, it fired a couple times, but wont run. could my timing be off or soemthing?

[Scott-300ex]

To that guy who had spark when he took it off and lost it when he put it on, couldn't you also take one of those spark testers that connect between the plug and the wire that lights up? Might be easier.

And if you put ether in there wouldn't it be smart to hold it wide open so it gets down to the crank so the slide doesn't stop it?

Yeh you got compression. LoL.

Take a pic of your reeds, I checked mine out when I did my top end which now I'm throwing the motor back in the bike now.

And if there is a GOOD ATV shop around you could take your bike to them and they could clock it or wutever its called where they get it all in time and everything for timing and such, they did that to mine.

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by Scott-300ex
And if you put ether in there wouldn't it be smart to hold it wide open so it gets down to the crank so the slide doesn't stop it?

Nope. A good portion of the ether will evaporate and fill your intake path with fumes. You'll get plenty enough to fire the engine with the slide closed.

The reason I suggest leaving the throttle CLOSED is to allow the engine to run off the ether for several seconds. If you open the throttle, you only get one or two seconds.

Several seconds will give plenty of time for the carb to begin operating properly, and bring fuel up from the fuel bowl through the normal fuel passages. If you are running off the starting fluid for only a brief second, the carb may not have enough time to react and get fuel where it needs to be to KEEP the engine running after the ether runs out.

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by Showcase
i just worked on it for like 4 hours today, messing around, trying different things....and it just wont go, it fired a couple times, but wont run. could my timing be off or soemthing?

I doubt your timing is off. To verify, you can pull the left side cover off (the side with the shifter), and if your flywheel is on tight and the key is in place, then your timing is correct.

If it fires, but doesn't run, then you have a fuel issue. It's either something clogged in your carb, or the actual jetting is off.

[readybeartoe]

Originally posted by Showcase
i just worked on it for like 4 hours today, messing around, trying different things....and it just wont go, it fired a couple times, but wont run. could my timing be off or soemthing?

What do you mean by "It won't go" and "won't run"??? Is it starting and idleing but dieing when you push the throttle???
If so you have a broken needle clip.

If it runs just for a few seconds and dies all buy it's self?
It's starving for fuel (float sticking) or carb needs to be tuned. or maybe a tiney piece of trash is the jet, Maybe the jet came loose and fell into the bowl...giving to much fuel?
Do you run an inline fuel filter? You can See the flow from the tank to the carb at a glance.

What kind of Carb IS IT?

What what kind of oil are you mixing your gas with and what's the ratio? 20.1? :( / 40.1?;) .
Does your bike smoke excesivelly?

I guess you already cleaned the stator and brushes??
Do you have a kill switch on the bike?

[Scott-300ex]

Try adjusting your Idle, cuz when I bought mine I would kick for like 30 minutes and it still wouldn't start usually.

Then I adjusted the idle and fires up right away. When I start mine, I give 9 kicks with the killswitch off to prime it, then turn the killswitch on and kick it and it fires like 3 kicks. Hook it on to your buddies car and pull it down the road and try and start it that way, easier on your leg and it will get stuff in the system and start the "SUCKTION" of the carb to. Maybe play with giving it some gas too with the throttle if it don't start.

[Showcase]

its a mikuni 38mm tm carb. there nothing in the carbs..ive cleaned them many times...would it make it not start if the jetting is off?


im running straight race gas..110 octane from shell. mixed at 40-1 with dominator amsoil oil.


anyone have a start point of where i should have the idle and air screw at to get it going? just for a little start?

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by Showcase
its a mikuni 38mm tm carb.

That does make things a little more difficult. Most of us run Keihin carburetors, there are only a handful that know the Mikuni well enough to get you started.

But to answer your other question, yes. If the jetting is way off, it may be very difficult to start.

[readybeartoe]

Don't know for sure if this will work for you... but Mine is a keihin 38mm airstryker and I have the clip at the very top of the DDJ needle, 168 main, 52 pilot. idle screw about 2 turns out. I'm in the mid south so not Very cold here. And now it Screams!

It stop fouling plugs when I finally leaned it out from the 38mm A/S suggested starting points that came already set up in it =needle at second from the bottom clip position, 175 main, 55 pilot.(fuel way to rich!) but it was a safe starting point, it just smoked and fouled plugs alot.

note: I have an 86 short rod, 19cc dome in Cool head,boost ported proX piston(.70 over),Boyseen Rad Valve, LRD Pipe(adjusted to shortest position) K&N without pre filter.(When I run the prefilter in warmer weather it smokes just a little.).
Oh!..You're not saturating your air filter with oil are you..? I did that years ago when I first got a fourwheeler! I ran a UNI foam filter and over oiled it to be safe and it wouldn't start. I REALLY over did it!drip..drip!:macho but that was Years Ago and I was green to tuning LOL! you're probably smarter than that anyway...

If all else fails and you need a stator you might get this one dirt cheap!??? It's on ebay Item number: 180189363263

Hope you get it running!:ermm:

[ny250r]

Something that was kinda mentioned....

You said it is about 15 degrees F where you are right?
When did you jet the carb? Probably during the summer when temps were up in the 60s-70s? You should go up a couple sizes on the mains and maybe up 1 on the pilot. You probably have a lean air/fuel ratio because of the cold temps. I know my summer jetting is too lean to start my R in my cold garage (even with it choked). Give it a try!

[Scott-300ex]

I recomend NOT to run straight race gas, half 93 and half 110 race.

And do you have a garage? Or does your buddy, those are warm if not get a propane heater in the garage with your 250r and let it get warm so it thinks its summer so you can start it with the original jets.

And I got a cool head, knn, Boyseen Rad Valve, FMF fatty and Turbine Core II and I'm runnin a 155 main and a 45 pilot.

[Aceman]

Originally posted by Scott-300ex
I recomend NOT to run straight race gas, half 93 and half 110 race.
WTF? What's your reasoning behind this?

Originally posted by Scott-300ex
And do you have a garage? Or does your buddy, those are warm if not get a propane heater in the garage with your 250r and let it get warm so it thinks its summer so you can start it with the original jets.
Again, what's your reasoning behind this? He already got it to fire, it just won't run. I'd jet it for where I'd be riding it, outside.

I don't know anything about mikuni carbs however so I'm no help.
:ermm:

EDIT: Just a couple things I didn't see mentioned yet.

Airfilter is clean with no restrictions in the intake pipe?
Full flow out the fuel line where it connects to carb?
Float height set correctly?

[Showcase]

well i was workign on it today, i have it at my moms work where it is in a warm garage =]


well i did alot of different things, then it seemed odd because the plugs kept coming out with white grimey stuff on there, so i took off the head...and there was a layer of greyish filmey stuff, it was so wierd ive never seen that before....cleaned that, im thinking it will start right up tommarow.

question at that is, how do i change the head on a cool head? i have a 20cc, and there is a 19cc in there....but how do i get the 19 out?

and i have head gaskets....i got three when i got the fourwheeler. the one that was in there...was like cardboard kinda, black with a metal ring in the center....and the other two are metal. one sais .094, and the other sais .059, any ideas what those mean? if i should use those or not? can i reuse the one that was in there or what?

sorry for the long post! thanks guys!

[Scott-300ex]

Originally posted by Aceman
WTF? What's your reasoning behind this?

Again, what's your reasoning behind this? He already got it to fire, it just won't run. I'd jet it for where I'd be riding it, outside.

I don't know anything about mikuni carbs however so I'm no help.
:ermm:

EDIT: Just a couple things I didn't see mentioned yet.

Airfilter is clean with no restrictions in the intake pipe?
Full flow out the fuel line where it connects to carb?
Float height set correctly?

I don't know ANYONE who runs straight race gas.

And haven't you ever started something up in the cold and it finally fires and then you give it gas and it quits or it just quits by itself but it doesn't do that in the summer or when you go to start it up the second time when it's already warm. I had a mower do that to me 2 days ago.

If you want to nit pick I could ask you wut you think he has in his "Intake pipe" Wut do you think he has socks in there? :huh

And for the gasket the one that has a metal ring on the cylinder is most likely a CR250 head gasket which is .028, thats the thickness, smaller number = more compression.

[bushwesl]

I run Torco 110 w/ 40:1 Dominator. Whether you run race gas, 50/50, or premium unleaded, depends on how much compression you're running. Maybe the "ANYONE" that you know don't have high enough compression to run race gas.

[k265r]

have you checked the ground wire to the frame.

[Showcase]

yuppp....its fine.

well i was workign on it today, i have it at my moms work where it is in a warm garage =]


well i did alot of different things, then it seemed odd because the plugs kept coming out with white grimey stuff on there, so i took off the head...and there was a layer of greyish filmey stuff, it was so wierd ive never seen that before....cleaned that, im thinking it will start right up tommarow.

question at that is, how do i change the head on a cool head? i have a 20cc, and there is a 19cc in there....but how do i get the 19 out?

and i have head gaskets....i got three when i got the fourwheeler. the one that was in there...was like cardboard kinda, black with a metal ring in the center....and the other two are metal. one sais .094, and the other sais .059, any ideas what those mean? if i should use those or not? can i reuse the one that was in there or what?

sorry for the long post! thanks guys!

[k265r]

you could reuse you old one if it is in good condition. i would use a thin layer of silicone to safeguard it will not leak. .094 head gasket would be a thicker head gasket than the .054. is this the first time the plug has been white and greese? domes usually push out fairly easy. why are you changing your dome?

[Showcase]

i would change it so the compression will go down so i dont have to be running race gas =\ to expensive for my taste. so its not bad for me to be running any of those gaskets?

[k265r]

.094 head gasket would drop your compression more than the .054. white oil on your plug whats up?

[Aceman]

Originally posted by Scott-300ex
I don't know ANYONE who runs straight race gas.

You don't know anyone that does, so that means showcase shouldn't?!?!

Just like the above poster, I also run straight 110 leaded. Now you do know 2 people that do!

Originally posted by Scott-300ex
And haven't you ever started something up in the cold and it finally fires and then you give it gas and it quits or it just quits by itself but it doesn't do that in the summer or when you go to start it up the second time when it's already warm. I had a mower do that to me 2 days ago.

If you want to nit pick I could ask you wut you think he has in his "Intake pipe" Wut do you think he has socks in there? :huh

You're damn right I'm going to nit pick your post. I expect the same treatment with my posts. I'm not always right but I try not to post advice to questions unless I'm familiar with the problem! So if you post BS, I'll call you on it! If you didn't have the mechanical knowledge of a 9th grade auto shop student you'd know the best way to troubleshoot is by eliminating variables systematically. THAT'S why I said check the airfilter and intake boot.

[Showcase]

it looks like some kind of coolant...or water maybe got in there...was like a white film in there....it was very odd, something i have never seen before.

[k265r]

do you think your head gasket was leaking? was this a one time thing with the white residue?

[Showcase]

yes i think it was leaking.....yes the white residue was this once...it stopped working, but ive cleaned it, and getting a new gasket soon, then ill put it back together and try it.

[k265r]

didnt you get two extra head gaskets when you purchased the quad? have you been riding this quad?

[Showcase]

i rode it a couple times after i bought it...but in october, it broke and i havent been able to start it since..and now im really getting into fixing it. the extra two i got with it seem like they have been used to. they seem a little bent and stuff.

[k265r]

good idea not using them if they are bent. what Broke?

[Showcase]

im not really sure, i was just riding and it stopped going, couldnt figure out what happened.

[k265r]

did it smell sweet like antifreeze when it quit running?

[Showcase]

no.

[readybeartoe]

I don't know your knowledge of 250r's so you might already know this But:
I remember you saying "you were riding in wet conditions when it quit that day."
Were you splashing around in deep water puddles? or riding through creeks???
If your motor sucked in alot of water and quit running because of that, it might still be in the crank case! (and pipe!) Have you stood your wheeler up on it's back wheels since then? It might have evaporated from the pipe but depending on where the piston stopped, it might be trapped in the crank case! and on top of that it's been sitting! kicking it ALOT! should purge it out but you will get that "gunk" out with it fouling your plugs. and you will foul alot of plugs i imagine until it's ALL out.

If you didn't go swimming that day...Then you might have just blown a head gasket and anitfreeze leaked down into the crank causing the same effect.

You had what sounds like a stock head gasket in there (cardboard like with a metal inner ring) which should be fine with a 19cc dome for 93 pump gas.

I have to run straight 110 race gas just because I have ALOT of compression! (CR Head gasket with 19cc dome) I like the punch.
Race gas just burns cleaner and keeps my compressed mixture from Pre-igniting (pinging ,getting hot, and or boom) -(kind of like a diesel engine- It doesn't have spark plugs. It just squeezes the mixture until it explodes!) You don't want that in your 250r engine.

If you want to change your domes just push the top of the Cool Head with your thumb it will come out with some pressure and push the other 20cc back in. If you go back to a thicker stock gasket and use the 20cc dome you might even be able you run 91 pump gas but I wouldn't recomend it. I know gas it high but run the good stuff, at least 93. it will start easier.
Other Tips:
-Add "Stabil" to your gas can AS SOON as you buy new gas (mix). It keep it fresh for months if you don't use it right away.
-Always Keep your gas in an air tight jug or tank. If you have alot of gas in your tank when your through riding plug up the air vent tube on the gas cover with something.(Don't forget to take it out when you decide to start it again)
Sometimes it's months before I get to ride again and I found that the gas evaporates faster than the oil leaving fuel mixture rich with oil when it's not air tight.
-when your going to park it for a while, turn your gas off while the bike is still running and it will die on it own. Then there won't be gelled gas in your carb when you go to start it later.
-An inline site fuel filter is a good thing to have for this.

You probably already know all this..but just incase you don't.

[honda380]

i was going to suggest the same thing as readybeartoe, i had a problem once. i dumped oil the cases and so did my dad, we had lots of oil in there. wouldnt run cause it was drawing it into the cylinder. rebuilt the lower end since then though. try draining the everything out of the cases and running it. you can run it without oil in the case for a minute and it wont hurt nothin.