Did ATK fix any of the Cannondale issues?

[tedwilley]

Hi. I'm looking at 450 quads and I see that ATK is offering the same or similar Cannondale quads (I know, they bought Cannondale)
Are they improved over the older Cannondale?
Has ATK addressed the various reliability issues the older 'dales were prone to?
Thanks in advance.

[ciscorc]

ATK has addressed most of the updates but ,the biggest being the crank bearing has yet to be resolved to my knowledge. The c-dale community uses the z400 bearing in their rebuilds, and that with the additional minor updates makes for a very reliable motor.

[joedirt]

Originally posted by ciscorc
ATK has addressed most of the updates but ,the biggest being the crank bearing has yet to be resolved to my knowledge. The c-dale community uses the z400 bearing in their rebuilds, and that with the additional minor updates makes for a very reliable motor.

ATK took care if the crank issue.
http://www.atkmotorsports.com/news/2007/documents/2008ATV450VRSpecs.pdf

[tedwilley]

Thanks
So this was only fixed in later models?
I've seen 2004 -- 2005 models for good prices, both lightly used and left over new units.
Is the crank bearing a concern for the recreational rider or more for racing?
I'm looking at a 2004 Cannondale (ATK?) this weekend for cheap.
It's been girl ridden, but nowdays that means nothing!
Any other visible stuff to look for besides general upkeep and appearance?

[witech]

Originally posted by tedwilley
Hi. I'm looking at 450 quads and I see that ATK is offering the same or similar Cannondale quads (I know, they bought Cannondale)
Are they improved over the older Cannondale?
Has ATK addressed the various reliability issues the older 'dales were prone to?
Thanks in advance.
ATK quads are rebuilt used Cannondales or pieced together from parts in stock. Then sold as new with a new VIN plate (legal or not?)
The one huge improvement that they do is to go through the engine and build it using locktite on the bolts. Thats about it. As far as the cranks they still fail just like the stockers.
A raced engine may last a while due to low number of hours it will see but a rec rider who racks up the miles and doesnt change oil religiously will be lucky to get a year out of it.
As far as Falicons it was a nice effort for the Cannondale community to get them designed and built but it was in vain as they have way more issues than the stockers.(bearing failures,out of balance,bearing tolerance varainces)
Kind of weird because Falicon makes fairly decent cranks for other brands but they really messed up on ours.

[tedwilley]

Thanks for everyone's input.
I think the early ATKs were just that, left over parts put together and relabeled. Pretty sure that wouldn't have been a good choice.
So, I made a deal on a 2002 Cannibal with a Blackwidow 450 rebuild and all the updates. I pick it up next weekend.
I am stoked, can't wait.
I am used to doing frequent oil changes and bolt checks, so with any luck I hope to really enjoy the Cannondale's performance and handling.

[armoks]

Originally posted by witech
ATK quads are rebuilt used Cannondales or pieced together from parts in stock. Then sold as new with a new VIN plate (legal or not?)
The one huge improvement that they do is to go through the engine and build it using locktite on the bolts. Thats about it. As far as the cranks they still fail just like the stockers.
A raced engine may last a while due to low number of hours it will see but a rec rider who racks up the miles and doesnt change oil religiously will be lucky to get a year out of it.
As far as Falicons it was a nice effort for the Cannondale community to get them designed and built but it was in vain as they have way more issues than the stockers.(bearing failures,out of balance,bearing tolerance varainces)
Kind of weird because Falicon makes fairly decent cranks for other brands but they really messed up on ours.

Just remember this is a competitor to ATK, Falicon and others out there, these guy have been know to trash everyone elses stuff to promote thiers! They show Dyno numbers but they have no one out there that does real trail numbers, It's easy to show an engine that does wide open snowmobile trails then real quad trails.

[cannondale27]

I guess you cant handle real fast trails since now you are riding a Beerwagon!

[joedirt]

DOH!!

[witech]

Originally posted by armoks
Just remember this is a competitor to ATK, Falicon and others out there, these guy have been know to trash everyone elses stuff to promote thiers! They show Dyno numbers but they have no one out there that does real trail numbers, It's easy to show an engine that does wide open snowmobile trails then real quad trails.

Its not really fair to consider stock ATK engines as competition to custom built race engines as they are 15 to 20 hp higher than ATK.
ATK has the info now on how to fix the Falicon cranks. It was a mistake to use a yamaha pin with the oil hole offset to the edge of the needle bearing causing a stress point. I think they are working on a custom pin to fix the issue.

[armoks]

Originally posted by cannondale27
I guess you cant handle real fast trails since now you are riding a Beerwagon!

Yea groomed snowmobile trails take sooo much ability to ride:rolleyes:

[witech]

The lube hole should be in the center and much smaller. I dont know if its the cause of the yamaha crank failures but I can say that oil hole is way to big. It wider than the needle itself.

[witech]

This Falicon crank had 15 hours on it. To Falicons credit they have worked with me on all the warranty issues that I have had in a timely manner. I cant speak for other customers.

[cannondale27]

Originally posted by armoks
Yea groomed snowmobile trails take sooo much ability to ride:rolleyes:

Come on over and find out what it takes.That is if you can take the time from plowing your flower garden with your new Beerwagon.

[armoks]

Originally posted by cannondale27
Come on over and find out what it takes.That is if you can take the time from plowing your flower garden with your new Beerwagon.

Maybe I will, you'll need something to pull that cdale out of the woods. Get it running yet?

[cannondale27]

Nope working on ti valve motor right now.But the Raptor will be enough to show you what its like to ride our boring trails.The Cannondale would just be overkill.

[cdrookie]

for having fixxed all those cannondale problems you WI guys sure spend alot of time rebuilding motors:confused: and a raptor? isn't that a yamaha? i guess you wanted a performance upgrade and got the new 250.

[cannondale27]

Just working on HP.Trying for 60hp on 450stock stroke.The Raptor is my main trailquad like my YFZ was before.Its a 700 Rookie.I mainly use my Dale for racing.Did you also get a Beerwagon?Or was it the flowergarden comment that got you going to?

[cdrookie]

no ute for me, but i'd trade armoks' garage for mine anyday. and for what a raptor costs couldn't get get 2 of those great, reliable, powerful cannondales
:confused:

[armoks]

Yea the cannondale would be overkill on my grizz I'd be pulling what two, three at a time out of the woods?

At a time I thought they were great machines now since I have three quads that aren't cdales all I have to do is change oil and adjust chains. Thing is I don't NEED all three. Not wondering why one of them always getting torn down for "horsepower" I 'm out riding hardest part is trying to decide which key to grab:D Not will it foul a plug on me this time or is today the day it will fall apart?

[joedirt]

Did you have these problems when the cdale was new?

[cannondale27]

Armoks is selling his LTR because he is afraid if he rides it his trannygears will grenade.For me it doesnt make sense to go into a motor without getting more power out of it.Its a addiction that I have paid for in ruined parts more than once.When new and untouched I never made a full season on a factory motor.Came close with the last one though.Now if you want a updated Cannondale motor with proven parts good for 50hp abouts that is easily doable and very reliable.Should easily make a season with just a topend change to be ready for next.
I bought the Raptor because my 06YFZ motor was showing signs of needing a teardown.That was only a season and 1/2 so really they are no better than the Cannondales and really were made for MX.Trailriding in fifth all the time takes a toll.Raptor or as I call it Brontosaurus isnt even working hard at those speeds.Hardly ever need 5th but like I said feels like a cow.I cant Imagine how it feels to ride a grizzly but maybe you like'em wide in the seat!

[armoks]

Naw I'm selling the LTR because it just isn't fun for me anymore, it was built to be an MX quad and 99% of the trails I ride are too narrow for it. Like I said I ride real trails not runways, same reason I sold my street bike a few years ago, just going strait on a smooth surface gets boring too quick.

27 I seen those pics of the women up your way , if those are your good ones then I'd hate to see the big ones:eek2:


Let's see, My first cdale, brought it home from the dealer had to change spark plug out, common problem with them back then because they were rich from the factory, had to tear into the engine to put a stage 8 or loctite the insides of the motor on most of the dales, then just about every bolt came loose after the first ride, then ever 5 hours replace the fuel filter because if you didn't the plug had tobe replaced again.

The second one, an ATK, was bought because the first one was having "horsepower" added. This was a gem... first two hour ride the piston disintegrated on me because the wrist pin snapped in half :huh ATK had to send me a new motor, which actually lasted a good long time, even though a couple rides that were on it were out at glamis, then some MX racing with an A class rider on it,not me but a fast rider. But still had the same issues with bolts disappearing everyride and that annoying fuel filter change.

Got smart when I found out about certain parts no longer being made like side case and weak main cases, kinda like the 07 LTR's they would just crack, but on the dale you wouldn't know because the weak point is inside the engine between the crank and tranny.
Shall I go on?

[cannondale27]

I think we can agree that there arent anymore issues with a updated Cannondale whether ATK or Cannondale than there are with all the other 450's.They are really race quads.

[cannondale27]

Those pics were just healthy ones!Yes there are some big ones here.

[cannondale27]

Unless you try our trails your a moron for saying you know what its like.As you know I have run plenty of Harescrambles which had trails less than 50" wide.I find that to be work best suited for your Grizzly or even a blaster.Its fun for awhile but to waste all that power on those is just not the adrenalin rush that a 5th gear powerslide around a corner gives.And yes even though wide the trees come quick at those speeds.Like I said give it a try.

[peterock]

Armoks,

Your quad is still running strong.

[armoks]

Like I said 27 a runway type of trail is not my speed, a nice tight trial where a 4th gear wide open is dangerous, which most think are trails, is just a joke in the power segment. a full out run on my Zilla is adrenaline heaven, thats speed without back up stopping power. a dale is a nice full out power quad but too unreliable of a machine for any normal person out there.


Lets get back to your boy though, he said the falicons were less reliable then the stockers, man you guys have to rip on anything out there that isn't yours.

You can say what you want about a grizz but I know plenty of people that will show you up on your sport quads with a UTE. And wow you can do a 5th gear power slide.....when was the last you did one of those on a dale, I thought the fift gear was too spread out for that type of power. again talking up the dales so called "horsepower" upgrades you guys are getting.

[jfarrar30]

now now fight nice..............

[tedwilley]

No sh$%!
I was just happy I bought a cannondale...

[cannondale27]

:D This is nothing.Lots of Mudslinging in past.You get last word Armoks.

[cdrookie]

i agree with 27(WOW!), this is pretty lame...

[Brown450R]

Originally posted by armoks


You can say what you want about a grizz but I know plenty of people that will show you up on your sport quads with a UTE.

I'd like to meet these people. You know plenty of them? At the Wisc. 6 hour race, I passed Factory Arctic Cat plenty of times on my ATK, built by C27. These were the same guys you see in the magazines and at the wpsa races. Passed by a lowley AtK, ridden by some hillbilly.. point being, you don't know plenty of people that can beat a sport quad with a ute, so shut up.

[cannondale27]

Its ok Roger.I do remember passing the entire Utility Class at Ironman 2years ago but they were pretty slow compared to Armoks buddies.

[armoks]

Looks like team can am beat the QB . net team this year, oh and they didn't run the dales the whole time, blackwidow was beat by two UTE teams this year at the 12 hour. Hmm don't seem to see any teams running in the 6hr races on dales/ATKs:confused: must be waiting on their parts.

Team Wachs even racing anymore or did he give up on Dales too?

Never said the guys I ride with race....but there are plenty out there that ride everyday that are fast. Little different then riding on wide race tracks then through trails.

[cannondale27]

Roger ran WI round this year.See now if the Dales would have made whole 12hr that never would have happened.I think a Utility is ideal for a 12 hr because it forces you to go so slow its hard to break anything.How were the laptimes?I could be wrong but those 12hr trails seemed alot like what I ride.Nice and wide and fast.Here is what happens to Utility when they try to keep with sportquads.

[cdrookie]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by armoks
[B]Looks like team can am beat the QB . net team this year, oh and they didn't run the dales the whole time, blackwidow was beat by two UTE teams this year at the 12 hour. Hmm don't seem to see any teams running in the 6hr races on dales/ATKs:confused: must be waiting on their parts.


waiting to hear your reply to this Brown450R.........

and the endurance races are brutal on utes, much more so than on the sport quads.

[tedwilley]

If I remember correctly, the Cannondale/Black Widow team came in sixth in the 12 Hrs of America.
That's a privateer team on a 2002 quad running against the factory backed pros. C27 do I have that right?

[cannondale27]

Yes I believe so.B class not pro.But it was the biggest class.

[armoks]

They still were beaten by two UTE teams, Brown said No UTEs can be faster then sport quads:eek2:

[speed 450]

for someone to talk sH#t I did not see you out there doing the race so until you show and prove that you can do better kiss off why dont you stopping being a baby!! I ran the Blackwidow cannondale and It was our first time doing it. Also we ran cannondales the whole race. The cannondale did not let us down it was the lid on the clutch that came lose and lost oil and so we lost clutch. We ran three cannondale all year and did not have one DNF.

[armoks]

AWE did I hurt your feelings? Just telling the truth. I don't have to defend anything just getting the truth out there. I'm not going to sit back and let you guys lie and say these are the greatest thing out there and have these poor kids get screwed when they try to resale something they can't get anything for.

[speed 450]

You have got to be the biggest baby I have ever seen. Never said that they were the best thing ever. I see you still have you Zuki still up for sale you cant resale it? Or does no one want to but from you!!

[speed 450]

And I bet you tell everone that you Dura shat is the best truck ever dont you?

[armoks]

AWE can't show any more cdale results so I'll go after your other toys LOL your a funny one.


BTW Dmaxs are showing thier own in every truck pull and drag race events across the country :D a 13.89 with just a programer and pipe with 33 inch mud terrain tires my truck holds it's own at the track.

[armoks]

AND I won't have to part out my Zuke like you had to with your moto:eek:

[speed 450]

Its not worth talking to somone that still talks crap about everone that has a difference in views than you. Why dont you just let it go that you srewed someone selling them your cannondales but they you come on here and act like you are trying to save someone your full fo crap. Thats why you start crap with everone that rides or sales a cannondale you just need to mid you own buiness .

[armoks]

Originally posted by speed 450
Its not worth talking to somone that still talks crap about everone that has a difference in views than you. Why dont you just let it go that you srewed someone selling them your cannondales but they you come on here and act like you are trying to save someone your full fo crap. Thats why you start crap with everone that rides or sales a cannondale you just need to mid you own buiness .

You studdering or is that just some kind of texas spelling? BTW both dale/ATKs are still running and running fine, peterock up there^^ even says his is and he got a darn good deal for what was on that quad. My second one I traded for an equal quad that needs alot of work, kind used to it after owning dales, but aways wanted a zilla. Lost lots of money on both of those quads.

[speed 450]

Look I still have 6 dont need 7

[speed 450]

Yea It Texas talk Why you come down and I'll show you the Texas way.

[armoks]

Originally posted by speed 450
Look I still have 6 dont need 7

You NEED 6 or 7...while 5 of them are down you might get enough parts to run one.

I heard what you do to those steers down there in Texas, I'll pass.

[joedirt]

I thought this was a ATK/ Cannondale Information tread and not a cry baby thread. STFU and if you don't and any info to write then don't write. Some dude asked a question and some moron hijacked the tread. Always remember you can't argue with MORONS. If you love your LTZ, TRX, KFX, KTM, YFZ there's a place for you to go SO GO

[armoks]

You can go back and look I only was telling the kid the problems that were with the dales and got attacked on what I ride.

YOu are to one looking like you are crying. Every post that went after me they went after my rep.

You own or have owened a dale/atk joedirt?

[jfarrar30]

......."awwwwll my ex'es live in texas....
sorry couldnt resist

this is better than SPRINGER!!!!!!JERRY JERRY JERRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cdrookie]

i've seen armoks drive a couple hundred miles to someone he didn't even know, get the 4 sick dales in their garage running good, then drive back home. i've seen him spend most of the day at group rides fixxing others dales,who he also didn't know, instead of riding. he had his arch enemy say that his old ATK was the highest HP stock dale they ever tested on their dyno. he's always willing to help those in need and knows the in and outs of the D&M and dealer cal probably better than anyone except Scooter. there's 2 sides to every (dale)story: there's the WI side, then there's the Armoks side.

[joedirt]

Originally posted by armoks
You can go back and look I only was telling the kid the problems that were with the dales and got attacked on what I ride.

YOu are to one looking like you are crying. Every post that went after me they went after my rep.

You own or have owened a dale/atk joedirt?
Own 3 quads and 4 bikes:huh

[joedirt]

Originally posted by cdrookie
i've seen armoks drive a couple hundred miles to someone he didn't even know, get the 4 sick dales in their garage running good, then drive back home. i've seen him spend most of the day at group rides fixxing others dales,who he also didn't know, instead of riding. he had his arch enemy say that his old ATK was the highest HP stock dale they ever tested on their dyno. he's always willing to help those in need and knows the in and outs of the D&M and dealer cal probably better than anyone except Scooter. there's 2 sides to every (dale)story: there's the WI side, then there's the Armoks side.
I've heard armoks is good with fixing cdales and it's understood about the Wis. noitalls because every cdale/atk thread on here turns into a pissing match between you guys.

[TheNewn]

Never fails...I venture into the Cannondale forum about once a month or so, very first thread i open, its a pissing match.

Every time.

What waste of time...

[Derno24]

Can someone pass me the popcorn. PLEASE!

All I can say is the Can-am team ran good, but honestly they didn't have a problem till late and took care of it quickly. All of our time was lost when a wheel fell off and when I couldn't get a darn 07 450r to start and then get the lights refired. Otherwise we would have been there with them. We would have rode Randy's Dale more if we hadn't messed up in fueling.

Man I am an idiot for some of the oversites we made. Just an entirely different race wih 3 machines. You kind of take them for granted.

[Brown450R]

Originally posted by cdrookie
[QUOTE]Originally posted by armoks
[B]Looks like team can am beat the QB . net team this year, oh and they didn't run the dales the whole time, blackwidow was beat by two UTE teams this year at the 12 hour. Hmm don't seem to see any teams running in the 6hr races on dales/ATKs:confused: must be waiting on their parts.


waiting to hear your reply to this Brown450R.........

and the endurance races are brutal on utes, much more so than on the sport quads.

What is your question? They don't list the make and model of the quads in the results of the Wisconsin round. Go look at ******** in the picture section and you will find about 10 of me on my atk. I was there, it ran, and ran good. Waiting on parts can be a problem sometimes with these quads though. That is true. My problem with skomra is that he throws dumb stuff out there that is impossible to back up, like he has plenty of buddies that would kick everyones *** on a ute...........give me a break. Prove it or shut up. Utes are not as fast as sport quads through the woods. Thats just a fact. I think it might have something to do with the weight of them? Ya think?

[Brown450R]

This ones for you Chris!

[armoks]

Originally posted by armoks
You can say what you want about a grizz but I know plenty of people that will show you up on your sport quads with a UTE. And wow you can do a 5th gear power slide.....when was the last you did one of those on a dale, I thought the fift gear was too spread out for that type of power. again talking up the dales so called "horsepower" upgrades you guys are getting.

Oh SORRY I missed putting an OF in i know OF plenty of people...

Look at Cecco, Kilby, Swift, Heck with this, how did this turn into a " I don't know you but I know everyone you know and they don't know how to ride because these guys who rode with you three years ago say so" thread? Sorry the guys I ride with aren't big bad racing names like you. Sorry I don't have the time or money to be out racing every weekend. Good for you, you are the man you can talk big in you're little world up there in Wusconsin:rolleyes:

Let's get back on topic here.... YES ATK goes through the engine and checks the major pionts that had problems, loctiting bolts, and other parts. BUT there are still issues in that motor design, the flywheels tend to spin, the innercases between the crank and tranny are still cracking, you HAVE to change your oil every 3-5 hours, you HAVE to change your fuel filter in the same time frame, you HAVE to have a D&M kit to do a throttle cal EVERY oilchange.

GO buy a dale, they are fun quads but they need TONS of extra care to keep running strong, If you live within walking distance to a DALE freek go a head and buy one. But if you are inpatient, or don't like doing anything that takes time to do like and oilchange on a dale or a throttle cal or you don't want to wait sometimes up to a year on a part DON'T buy one.

[tedwilley]

armoks,
I can appreciate your views (and almost everyone else) on the Dales. I don't understand (nor do I want to) the personal BS that seems to have resurfaced from God knows when.
Back to my original post.
I was looking for a high performance quad, without spending another $8K upfront, so I looked into the newer ATKs as well as used Cannondales(looked at all of the other 450s, too).
Just wanted info, the more the better.
Thanks for referring to me as 'the kid', haven't been called that it a while! Your warnings are valid.
I bought a 2002 Cannibal with all updates and a Black Widow 450 rebuild, I'm thoroughly satisfied.
In the sixties and seventies I raced British sports cars; eighties and nineties switched to German cars (better engineering and performance-but almost as much maintenance) So, I know what weeknight fixing to drive on Sunday is like. It doesn't concern me. The Dale is not my only quad, just my current favorite.
I'm sorry your experience with them was so negative.
Should a Cannondale/ATK be someones only machine for constant rec riding, probably not. Are they a gas, YES!
Thanks to everyone for the responses, good and bad.

[armoks]

Sorry for calling you a "kid" most of the newer dale owners are because they are going for such low prices.

If you need any help with the D&M don't hesitate to PM me or check out cannondaler there are a lot of cali guys on there that are more then willing to help out. And it's backed by ATK.

All teh negitives that I have come from one side of the views of a few people the Cdale comunity as a whole is a good group of people just some bad apples here and there. Both sides don't agree all the time and it comes out bad like this but in all most would still stop by and help out another Cdaler on the trail.

Good luck with your purchase:D Learn as much as you can on the quad and ride it like the cops are chaseing you!

[tedwilley]

NO, I like it when someone calls me a kid!
Yeah, I ride like I'm not gonna get to again!
Thanks for the offer of help, always appreciated.
Happy Holidays to you and yours....

[04yfz450nj]

I dont understand why everyone says cdales are crap the yfz an 450r had engine problems as well.I had a cdale at one time an still think it was a awesome quad.

[speed 450]

Look I have nothing aginst Armoks he has helped me in the past but I dont take kindly to people talking crap when they were not there racing aginst us and are just talking crap to talk crap.

[armoks]

Don't talk crap about me and I won't talk crap about you, People wanted proof so I went out and got the data, compiled it and showed results. Don't say things you can't back up with a tiny area of the world and what someone tells you. The results of the race show you were beat by 2 UTE teams and I stand by that data. first one across the line wins, excuses don't win races excuses are like a-holes... everyone has one and they all stink.

[joedirt]

^^ Are you done yet. Nothing to do with the thread:tired:

[armoks]

and you added sooo much to this thread :eek2:

[cdrookie]

when he first posted it had to do with this thread, then others started getting it off track. exactly the way many of the forum threads go.

[joedirt]

If I were to comment on your BLAH BLAH then I wouldn't be writing about something about this thread. You had a C-dale you don't anymore you commented on it. Maybe you were to smart for your own good. That is why you had all this bad luck with your C-dale. I don't like suzukis you see me over there bashing them. Armoks we wouldn't have all these wonderful race quads if it weren't for C-dale and the technology they put into there quads. I like the thought and innovation C-dale into anything they make. Manufacturers are just starting to catch up with there technology that they had in 03. It was an American company that tried and almost acomplished the dam near impossible on competing with the big 4. That is why people are so passionate about them. It is Harley like passion Cannondale is a American company and people have pride with things that are made in America. So God Bless America and go stay on the LTZ threads.

[cannondale27]

Just a reminder for those of you who feel Armoks is being picked on.This is his first post in this thread.If this isnt a totally opinionated line of crap just looking for a response I dont know what is.So dont act like little miss innocent Armoks.YOU and only YOU started this nonsense.

armoks
I pepperspray protesters

Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Clinton, MD
Posts: 518

Re: Re: Did ATK fix any of the Cannondale issues?

quote:Originally posted by witech
ATK quads are rebuilt used Cannondales or pieced together from parts in stock. Then sold as new with a new VIN plate (legal or not?)
The one huge improvement that they do is to go through the engine and build it using locktite on the bolts. Thats about it. As far as the cranks they still fail just like the stockers.
A raced engine may last a while due to low number of hours it will see but a rec rider who racks up the miles and doesnt change oil religiously will be lucky to get a year out of it.
As far as Falicons it was a nice effort for the Cannondale community to get them designed and built but it was in vain as they have way more issues than the stockers.(bearing failures,out of balance,bearing tolerance varainces)
Kind of weird because Falicon makes fairly decent cranks for other brands but they really messed up on ours.



Just remember this is a competitor to ATK, Falicon and others out there, these guy have been know to trash everyone elses stuff to promote thiers! They show Dyno numbers but they have no one out there that does real trail numbers, It's easy to show an engine that does wide open snowmobile trails then real quad trails.

Tedwilly your Cannondale has no more issues than any other sportquad and is a heck of lot more cool!

[tedwilley]

All of the 450s, and the like require religious maintenance. It's the nature of the beast. If you neglect them like people neglect their 400ex and the like, they will ALL disappoint you.
High performance = high maintenance
Cannondale = high and diligent maintenance

But, it's is kinda cool when you are the only one, and people ask about your ride all the time. :cool:

[cannondale27]

So true.

[armoks]

Tim, wistech and your little wusconsin group ARE competitors to ATK and Falicon's dale cranks. the Cdale community is a small group of people with the relatively small number of motors out there. Do I believe some of your info and dyno numbers are fudged? Yes I do. Do I believe you guys hide a lot of other issues? Yes I do.

Your fist post on this thread directly trying to bash..

"cannondale27
Senior Member

Registered: Oct 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 106


I guess you cant handle real fast trails since now you are riding a Beerwagon!"

I WILL defend myself when attacked.


Joe dirt, I was one of the few that didn't have problems with my dales except the ATKs first motor. But I was very particular with the maintence on them. I know more bout dales then a lot of people so I can and will coment on them when I see fit to.

[cannondale27]

My first thread was a answer to yours you dork.As far as dyno numbers nobody has ever fudged at all but think what you want.You will never give an inch and never admit the Timbo and the rest of us saved your butt in the engine department more than once.Seems to me the low point of Cannondales was when you and your hero were in.Now we have great dependable suppliers and new people getting in all the time.Things couldnt be better.Well maybe could be if you would just SHUT UP!

[armoks]

Nice defence calling names and telling people to SHUT UP...afraid of the truth getting out?

Tim had nothing to do with any of my motors. only thing I ever called wistech for was when an oring gave out on one of the oil feed tubes in one of my motors. It was an easy fix.

All I did was work on mapping and tuning. I came up with real maps that people still use and didn't just rename the same map over and over changing the flowrates and calling them "Super maps" Or going around telling people new injectors were needed and then taking out soo much fuel out of the maps so you are getting the same amount of fuel as you were gettting with stock injectors.

Dependable suppliers? Yea Tim is a great guy as long as he isn't doing something for someone else what the last batch of parts from him tok what 6- 8 months because he was backed up with other peoples stuff?

[cannondale27]

Do you need a cheese to go with that whine Armoks?You got out of Cannondales because we told you to check some crappy aftermarket cams.Curiosity or the will to prove us wrong got best of you and you found that my oh my we were right your cams were junk.Your motor would be dead if that wasnt found.Ever thank any of us for raising red flags?No you just sold out.Peterock got your ATK which already required a new rod and Z400bearing which you also denied was needed.Lucky for spare rods being around.I am not even going to get into your utter refusal to believe that we make maps at the dyno and bigger injectors ARE required for the power we are making.When Timbo and I are making a map we look at AFR and do whats required till AFR is right.Stick to.No never mind I forgot you dont own a Cannondale and probably will never touch one with the level of performance ours are at so its a waste of time trying to teach you.Go buy some big tires and a snorkle and go drive your Grizzly into a lake.