'07 trx450r vs. '07 LTR450?

[tnsxsear]

Ive searched on here to no avail to find an answer. Im just curious to see which one is faster and by how much. Any of you '07 Ltr's race an HRC Kitted '07 450r? What was the outcome..

[Robin Hood]

What type or racing?

Honestly unless you're in the dunes, it shouldn't matter.

In a straight line, I'd say the LTR would get a jump on the 450r, but the honda would reel it in after a few seconds.

On a track, LTR hands down.

Woods - 450R is more nimble.

Just my opinion.

[kawi400]

450r will kill the ltr in any woods riding and it is faster overall. except for the mx tracks:eek2:

[450Rchaser]

Originally posted by kawi400
450r will kill the ltr in any woods riding and it is faster overall. except for the mx tracks:eek2:

I agree w/ the 450r being better in the woods. But faster overall is FREAKING CRAZY!!!! A stock LTR w/ dust a Piped & jetted 450r.

[jeremy_283]

i usually pull holeshots or i'm upfront and i race b class on mx...... my neighbor an xc racer wanted to drag me on the road, it was pretty much real close, he won though, specially towards the end where he was revving out, i was spinning my tires on the road, he wasn't, he had like 22's xc tires, i had 18's mx tires, just other factors, he had an HRC kit and a pipe, I had a cherry bomb and a pipe

[jeremy_283]

i've beat 450r's tho in the holeshot in an mx race...... just FYI

[450Rchaser]

The 18s are probably why he got you on top end. He was running some monster 22s. Swap tires n see what happens.

[Speed_MDS2]

LTR owns 450rs all day.

[450Rchaser]

Thank you.

[250r4life]

Originally posted by Speed_MDS2
LTR owns 450rs all day.

oh my gosh... let me guess- the LTR owns the YFZ all day too...

a piped and jetted 450r will get dusted by a stock LTR?

i dont know where you guys come up with this stuff... have you ever even ridden a quad?

[450Rchaser]

Yep Ive ridden and owned many. Tell you the truth if you find an honest person w/ a 450r that has been spanked by an LTR they will tell you just what I told you. LTR from beginning to end will take a 450r.

[kawi400]

no way a stock ltr will even keep up with a 450r in a drag.

250rforlife is right

[450Rchaser]

This is gonna be a pissing contest i can already tell.

Brother in Laws 450r- Athena 480 Big Bore, HMF Pipe, no airbox lid, 13t sprocket and jetted

Mine- LTR 450 see my sig.

Drag raced them. The 450r didnt have a chance. Everything is identical 450cc, 20" rear tires, 13T sprocket, and a thumb on our right hand. The honda got spanked BAD. It was even on pavement so no tire spin.

Unless those xtra 30cc w/ a high comp piston he had wasnt matching the power of my PC. The LTR is a dual overhead cam motor. Im not a rice racer but anybody knows that all they do is build those DOHC motor to run.

[kawi400]

no way u beat the 450r in a drag with those mods.
stock the 450r and yfz would kill the ltr in a drag

[450Rchaser]

You have obviously never ridden an LTR. Im a Honda man myself but came upon my LTR w/ a deal. Hell I would put mine up against amy buddies 500cc 450r.

[DEVINF450R]

LOL who cares about drag racing...except for cut off fox t-shirt wearing, cig hanging out of their mouth, cut off jeans and steel toe boot riders. ANYONE can go in a strait line on a quad. But I have seen em all pull holeshots. I pulled holeshots on LTRs with my 450r, and they pulled them on me. However, I did beat a YFZ that was Pat Browns (Garret Greaves, Rowe you know him), and a 520 big bore 450r out of the holeshot this past weekend.

[bigH]

i like the LTR its a great bike but like ive said before my HRC 450r owned a LTR in a drag race that had a cherry bomb and a yoshi pipe....i ride my friends LTR all the time and its great for MX but even with the mods its still underpowered....not sayin a 450r is better but it is faster in a drag race.....does drag racing really matter though nahhhh not really

[450Rchaser]

The only atv that will own a LTR 450 is a 700 raptor in a drag race. I myself think a bad***** quad is one that will lug down really low and come back out of it w/o dropping a gear. Fuel injection is the wave of the future. Anybody that is near middle TN I will put my LTR 450 against about anything. I may prove my point about it or be showed up but I aint scared.

[250r4life]

Originally posted by 450Rchaser
The only atv that will own a LTR 450 is a 700 raptor in a drag race. I myself think a bad***** quad is one that will lug down really low and come back out of it w/o dropping a gear. Fuel injection is the wave of the future. Anybody that is near middle TN I will put my LTR 450 against about anything. I may prove my point about it or be showed up but I aint scared.

:D

comical...

[450Rchaser]

Originally posted by 250r4life
:D

comical...

Very comical, bring that 250r out to my neck of the woods and we will see.

[250r4life]

Originally posted by 450Rchaser
Very comical, bring that 250r out to my neck of the woods and we will see.

lol... this guy is just full of humor...

[250r4life]

why dont you ask GPracer how well the LTR stacks up against the YFZ... I dont post this by any means to make GP look bad, as he is an excellent rider... the results would have been the same had we switched...

we did a little testing this past weekend... he and i weigh within a few lbs of eachother, and we're both running sand stars...

He had a suzuki with the baffle out, lid off, filter, and cherry bomb, and had dropped the front sprocket one to account for the 20 in paddles... well, i held off and stayed next to him through the whoops, then punched it and began to pull away pretty quick.... then i let off the gas like crazy for him to catch up (and brought my RPMS way low at the same time), and when he got even i punched it again and pulled away again... i did this about 3 times during the course of the hill...

even putting a pipe on the LTR, or taking the pipe off mine (i rode mine all last year with just the baffle out), i would say i still would probably beat the bike by at least 3 bike lengths...

[450rJam]

what you guys smoking ?????????

im smoking ltr's !!!!!!!!!

lmao @ the 700 rappy the only thing to outrun the ltr ?

**********NEWS FLASH*************

The 450r beats the 700 also

yfz/450r are close, im not sure about the new ktms

but the ltr and kfx are a step behind in the motor department

[250r4life]

Originally posted by 450rJam


yfz/450r are close, im not sure about the new ktms



i raced one KTM last weekend... not sure if it was the 450 or the 525, but i will say it was probably in the top 3 of the fastest bikes i raced last weekend... and i raced quite a few...

[DEVINF450R]

In the world of sanctioned racing.... yamaha only has a name b/c Ballance is a bad ***.... Suzuki, and Honda dominate. in the world of Amature racing Suzuki rules the roost. a Suzuki can go around a track (us real racers go around a track) faster for less money, and I am not just talking about MX either. You want to brag about HP..drag race. You wanna brag about balls, race mx. IMO nothing else matters. oh I own a Honda too, and I turn better lap times on my stock LTR than I do on my $15,000 450R:o

[450rJam]

ltr corners better (only due to the width and 18's)

anyone interm. or above will upgrade the arm's/shocks etc.
replace them on both atv's and zuki looses its advantage

suzuki knows the ltr450 is slacking in the power department, thats why they are trying to bump it up this year

stock for stock on an mx track with lots of corners the zuki will win with equal riders (this is tailor making the competition to suit the ltr)

put them on sand/street/ or woods (anywhere else the honda gets it done)

to me the ltr is too much of a one trick pony, like a drag only atv.
ill keep my R because it does it all well

[Speed_MDS2]

Slacking in the power department? How the hell does mine smoke other bolt on bikes consistently then? Must be my incredible riding skills. LOL

[450Rchaser]

Originally posted by Speed_MDS2
Slacking in the power department? How the hell does mine smoke other bolt on bikes consistently then? Must be my incredible riding skills. LOL

Very true, try taking your exhaust baffle out of your 450r and put a $30 filter on it and put a $30 cherry bomb on the LTR and see who gets performance

[DEVINF450R]

As I pointed out... I am faster on my BONE STOCK LTR (cherry bomb and airbox lid off) than my fully built mx ready 450r. the ltr handles better than a full long travel 450r with a BUILT motor (13.5:1 comp piston, port polish, sparks exhaust, stage II hotcam, FCR bored carb, and twin air air filter)

[250r4life]

i would put the YFZ without a baffle, lid off, and rejetted against the LTR with the same and a cherry bomb...

you may win that battle with the 450r (it'd be close) but the YFZ would still ownit...

[LTR450_#67]

It would be about even or damn close if you do the cam mod on the YFZ....I have a friend with a 05 YFZ, full exhaust and jetting+K&N filter no cam-mod and my LTR will walk away from it.

I think its who ever gets the start if you get a YFZ with cam mod and exhaust+jetting.

[250r4life]

Originally posted by LTR450_#67


I think its who ever gets the start if you get a YFZ with cam mod and exhaust+jetting.

i dont even think its a race if you go that route...

granted mine is a 06 so i have 10 more ccs, but...

i will give you the LTR is can turn faster lap times on a mx track with lots of turns...

what we are talking here is drag racing... even though a lot is rider, the variance in times isnt near as much in drag racing as it is in other forms, like MX for example...

as far as racing the hill at the dunes, the LTR doesnt hold a candle to the YFZ when you go mod for mod... not even close...

[Speed_MDS2]

Dude YFZ's are only fast at one thing, from the truck to the hill and back to the truck when it breaks.

[450Rchaser]

Originally posted by Speed_MDS2
Dude YFZ's are only fast at one thing, from the truck to the hill and back to the truck when it breaks.

Hahahahahahaha,......Ahahahaha

[250r4life]

oh thats right... its Suzuki that has the repuation for building rock solid quads...

[450rJam]

with just the hrc kit, my 450r wasnt even fun drag racing ltr's

like killing crickets, too easy

[jayman]

Ok children :p

Just line them up and go. Then the winner can brag that he beat the other on that particular day.

I like lining them up and doing some straights but come on these quads were built to do other things like taking jumps, getting in and out of corners, taking whoop sections, run hare scrambles etc.
Some can take a stock Honda/Suzuki and do really well on a mx track and some can take a built Honda/Suzuki and do poorly on the same track. Buy the quad that is designed to do what you are most comfortable at, for me I like the mx track and that is why I bought the LTR which is what I consider the best for me.

[DEVINF450R]

AMEN:devil:

[250r4life]

Originally posted by jayman

Just line them up and go. Then the winner can brag that he beat the other on that particular day.



sounds great to me! any of you imperial duners who would like to prove me otherwise, im always down for a good hill shoot...

[kawi400]

ok, the 450r is a way better trail bike than the ltr. and all u need is longer a arms and the r will out corner the ltr.:devil:

[Speed_MDS2]

So, all you have to do is spend $2000 plus to get ltr handling? What a deal! LOL And the only trails the 450r is better in are trails the LTR won't fit down. Any trail wide enough to fit the LTR down the LTR is better in. If the 450r was so much better than the LTR why are all you guys always in the LTR section, I'm thinkin you guys are having second thoughts on your 450r purchase myself.

[450rJam]

actually I was just clicking through the "new posts" when I stumbled across this thread

im heading to waynoka in about an hour if anyone wants put up, I will be there till monday/tuesday (black 450r/tribal graphics/rossier, im camping in north camp/ silver dodge quad cab w/20's)

I am still running the stock arms but im pretty sure I can find aftermarket for cheaper than 2K

I know you was just exaggerating, like everyone else that wears the blinders that make them think the ltr is faster than it is.

no one atv is perfect for everyone, so like someone else stated....
to go buy what you want.

I have yet to be outrun by a ltr450 in dirt or sand drags
im sure there are some out there that are faster than what I run

[Speed_MDS2]

You may find after market arms for less then 2k but remember that you'll need shocks, axle. Its 2k easy and thats with cheap parts.

[LTR450_#67]

Oh look....A dead horse!!! I wonder how many times it was beaten?

[250r4life]

Originally posted by LTR450_#67
Oh look....A dead horse!!! I wonder how many times it was beaten?

lol... :D

if ya'll would just realize that the YFZ is the best 450 out there, then we could just drop all of this :devil:

[DEVINF450R]

did you guys not see the post I put where I went from a fully set-up 450r to a stock LTR...and it IS faster

[450rJam]

well I race about half a million times at the drag strip and didnt get beat by a single ltr, I got killed by a few banshee's and there where alot of yfz's and other 450r's that where all within a length or two each time (who ever got off the line first won)

there where 3 ltr's about 10-15 yfz's and 6 450r's

[kawi400]

no Speed_MDS2 i dont think that they regret buying a 450r cuz it is faster than the ltr but they just like to know about the othor 450s:blah:

[DEVINF450R]

So what we have proven here is that an LTR-450 is the Ferrari of quads, and the YFZ and TRX are the Dodge Vipers...fast in a strait line and well....fast in a strait line. but the LTR is RACE bred...and by race I mean the only true form of racing out there.... MX:macho

[Speed_MDS2]

This what you usually see from the seat of a 450r at bull gap, MI.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v507/lmhollenbeck/DHRoost.jpg

[250r4life]

Originally posted by Speed_MDS2
This what you usually see from the seat of a 450r at bull gap, MI.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v507/lmhollenbeck/DHRoost.jpg

is that cuz ltr's are so slow that they dont even bother racing them... they just sit behind them to watch and laugh! :devil:

[KingpinsEx]

Originally posted by DEVINF450R
did you guys not see the post I put where I went from a fully set-up 450r to a stock LTR...and it IS faster


Ya im still trying to figure that post out myself. Am i the only one who finds it odd comparing a 15k 450r to a stock LTR. If anything that statement just shows how full of **** and biased you are. The LTR is not even 50 inches wide, anyone who races them competitivly swaps out all the suspension components. While plent of championships have been won on modded out 450rs, i have never seen a pro race a stock LTR.

Not to mention the motor department, everyone knows the LTR is corked up stock and gets beat by 450s in stock form. And yet you are comparing a national built 450r to a stock LTR and giving the zuk the edge??? I'm sorry but that's just not right, maybe you are afraid of the power of the honda so the LTR better suits your riding style. There is no way a long travel, motor modded honda can even be compared to a stock suzuki, that is just ridiclous.

As for all this holeshot talk, thats a bunch of BS. I have holeshotted 450rs, yfz's, Z400s, cannondales, just about everything except the new quads (since i have been out of racing for a while) on my stock motored 400ex. For starts it really is the rider that makes the difference, no quad is going to put you out front of the others, you need to do that yourself. As for general mx riding like the other's said it basically goes on your preference. I like alot of bottom end so the 450r suits my riding style, however the LTR is the best bang for your buck in mx.

[ProjectLTR]

Originally posted by KingpinsEx
Ya im still trying to figure that post out myself. Am i the only one who finds it odd comparing a 15k 450r to a stock LTR. If anything that statement just shows how full of **** and biased you are. The LTR is not even 50 inches wide, anyone who races them competitivly swaps out all the suspension components. While plent of championships have been won on modded out 450rs, i have never seen a pro race a stock LTR.

Not to mention the motor department, everyone knows the LTR is corked up stock and gets beat by 450s in stock form. And yet you are comparing a national built 450r to a stock LTR and giving the zuk the edge??? I'm sorry but that's just not right, maybe you are afraid of the power of the honda so the LTR better suits your riding style. There is no way a long travel, motor modded honda can even be compared to a stock suzuki, that is just ridiclous.

As for all this holeshot talk, thats a bunch of BS. I have holeshotted 450rs, yfz's, Z400s, cannondales, just about everything except the new quads (since i have been out of racing for a while) on my stock motored 400ex. For starts it really is the rider that makes the difference, no quad is going to put you out front of the others, you need to do that yourself. As for general mx riding like the other's said it basically goes on your preference. I like alot of bottom end so the 450r suits my riding style, however the LTR is the best bang for your buck in mx.

dude shut Honda's suck a stock ltr would kill a piped and jetted trx its just a fact

[450rJam]

you guys have just pegged the bs meter

the ltr is underpowered vs the other 450's

you can hide in your closet and deny all you want but its not going to change

projectltr, you can get off thier nuts now

[kawi400]

he is right the trx450R will always be faster than the ltr just a fact.

[bigH]

Originally posted by ProjectLTR
dude shut Honda's suck a stock ltr would kill a piped and jetted trx its just a fact

hahahahahha u have no friends, noone likes you......u seriosuly need to stop ur *****in kid lets face it LTR has no power......honda n yamaha are alot faster......LTR is a mx quad and thats bout it.....wait ProjectLTR what won the wpsa championship this year????? o **** a honda....wait wait what bout GNCC ohhh **** a yamaha and honda second....damn the red and blue bikes must be doing something right besides 49inches in width.

[bigH]

Originally posted by kawi400
he is right the trx450R will always be faster than the ltr just a fact.

dude i couldn't agree with u more.....but hey woahhhh that suzuki is flat out a god once u put that cherry bomb on its like a completley new bike for $40....to bad its still not faster then the other 450's lol but with all do respect i think the LTR can be a badass bike when set up right, IMO they don't have enough power but you cant still make it fast with the right ****....but some people talkn bout the LTR being faster then fully built 450's from other makes, is just crazy....grow up any 450 can beat any other 450 with the right ****....there's always gonna be something faster.

[04CAVForce]

Originally posted by bigH
........grow up any 450 can beat any other 450 with the right ****....there's always gonna be something faster.
Ding, ding, ding..... we have a winner!

I love these threads. Buy the color / mfg that you like, throw on your mods that you want and ride it !!!!

[kawi400]

thank u bigH u are right.
but the honda is still the faster than the ltr

[KingpinsEx]

Originally posted by DEVINF450R
In the world of sanctioned racing.... yamaha only has a name b/c Ballance is a bad ***.... Suzuki, and Honda dominate. in the world of Amature racing Suzuki rules the roost. a Suzuki can go around a track (us real racers go around a track) faster for less money, and I am not just talking about MX either. You want to brag about HP..drag race. You wanna brag about balls, race mx. IMO nothing else matters. oh I own a Honda too, and I turn better lap times on my stock LTR than I do on my $15,000 450R:o

Another interesting comment...not taking anything away from suzuki, they are nice machines and did a great job building the quad. But they only have a name because of Team Suzuki/Yoshimura. Seriously they grabbed up all the top top pro's because no1 else would pay them enough. So they buy their manufactures championships. Everyone has seen it, Gust can win on a damn Z400 of course he can on a 450.

It's not hard to make your quad look good with the best rider's and the best part's. If they really wanted to show the LTR is as good as suzuki says it is Gust should have raced it stock since he claim's its "on the same level" as is championship winning Z400.

I guess my point is any of the major manufactuers would do good with the lineup suzuki has...

[LTR450_#67]

Geez that dead horse is starting to decay, but for some reason those kids keep hitting it like they are going to kill it again.....

I've ridden the TRXs and YFZs and they seemed to be pretty good in their own right. One might shine in an area the other didn't but in the end the ergonomics of either just didn't fit me. I like how the TRX handled but just couldn't get get comfortable on it. And the YFZ just felt cramped to me and thats with a +1 stem. It was a great jumper. What I found wierd though was that the YFZ I rode had +2 A-arms with stock rims and was still about an inch narrower than my LTR with 4-1 rims.


Originally posted by KingpinsEx
Seriously they grabbed up all the top top pro's because no1 else would pay them enough. So they buy their manufactures championships.

It's not hard to make your quad look good with the best rider's.

I guess my point is any of the major manufactuers would do good with the lineup suzuki has...

I couldn't agree more, cuz that's basically what CanAm did.

IDK to me the LTR seems like the total package if you are going to start MX racing. I've had my '06 LTR since FEB '06 and it has givin me zero problems.....BUT with all 450s reliability is all about preventative maintainance and some kids think that they can treat these 450s like a lawn mower changing the oil + oil filter and air filter once a year along with neglecting the valves. Not to mention they don't look over the machine looking for other warn parts or loose bolts.

Ok blah blah blah and blah blah about this.......

Sorry for the rambling but thats my 2 cents

Aaron

[450rJam]

aaron you just jumped back on the dead horse lol

beat away....................it dont mind

[bigH]

Originally posted by 450rJam
aaron you just jumped back on the dead horse lol

beat away....................it dont mind

hahaha yeah this thread will go on for another 4 weeks so just keep beating away but please people try to say things that are not completely stupid, lets keep it basic = suzuki slowest 450 in stock form, but there is potential with it obviously.

[LTR450_#67]

I was just putting in my 2cents worth not saying one was better than the other.

[ltrricardo]

lol alot of stuff going on here..
From what i know..

Honda.. Lots of power.. probably the most out of the 450s great trail bike.. LTR straight out race bike.. doesnt have power like a honda but it has the potential to keep up with a honda on a MX track.. yes i ride a suzuki but im not going to say its the best maybe on a track stock but not best alll around.. yamaha probably fastest.. but again not the best.. all 450s have there own good side.. like kawi SUPER light.. ltr MX bike. Honda Power and great trail bike.. yamaha fast thats my opinion..

[Vade]

the KFX ain't as light as they make it seem its still heavier than either the honda or yamaha by at least 10 pounds

[DEVINF450R]

Originally posted by KingpinsEx
Ya im still trying to figure that post out myself. Am i the only one who finds it odd comparing a 15k 450r to a stock LTR. If anything that statement just shows how full of **** and biased you are. The LTR is not even 50 inches wide, anyone who races them competitivly swaps out all the suspension components. While plent of championships have been won on modded out 450rs, i have never seen a pro race a stock LTR.

Not to mention the motor department, everyone knows the LTR is corked up stock and gets beat by 450s in stock form. And yet you are comparing a national built 450r to a stock LTR and giving the zuk the edge??? I'm sorry but that's just not right, maybe you are afraid of the power of the honda so the LTR better suits your riding style. There is no way a long travel, motor modded honda can even be compared to a stock suzuki, that is just ridiclous.

As for all this holeshot talk, thats a bunch of BS. I have holeshotted 450rs, yfz's, Z400s, cannondales, just about everything except the new quads (since i have been out of racing for a while) on my stock motored 400ex. For starts it really is the rider that makes the difference, no quad is going to put you out front of the others, you need to do that yourself. As for general mx riding like the other's said it basically goes on your preference. I like alot of bottom end so the 450r suits my riding style, however the LTR is the best bang for your buck in mx.


then it is obvious you have never jumped a Suzuki LTR450. they fly so much flatter and straiter. they track corners and the power is better suited for mx IMO. I am a short guy at 5'6" so the ergonomics of the Suzuki fit me 10x better. and by stock I mean with a cherry bomb and air-box lid removed. I don't pull holeshots as much as I did with my built Honda, but now I do the passing instead of getting passed:macho

If you put a built motor to a bone stock motor, it will matter in the holeshot. I would say it is 50/50 reaction time/power providing the rider knows how to positon his body on a quad for max traction. If you have been out of racing for a while, then you might wanna go and watch one, what was A-class 5yrs ago is now top of c-class/low end of B-class. your 400 would not have a chance

[450rJam]

just face it, he would rather run the pinto than the mustang

(the stock pinto, over the supercharged big block stang)

[Vade]

im just curious but can you post pictures of your race ready honda that cant hang with your stock ltr with gt thunder rebuilds

[DEVINF450R]

this one is before it was totally set up

[DEVINF450R]

oh and it is for sale

[DEVINF450R]

shows ride height

[DEVINF450R]

and to show it had power here is me pulling a holeshot

[ltrricardo]

Most of you guys are just going for your own quad.. face facts.. not sure which quad is faster out of all the 450s but who cares really..?

Every 450 is good for its own thing.. get whatever suits you get it and deal with it.. dont say its the best blah blah blah..

its not like you are going to be 75+mph on a race track.. half the time its the rider not the quad.. if you are fit and have skill most likly going to win.. even if you have 5k into your quad, if you suck.. you probably are going to get beatin by a stock quad..

dont go off what you read on the internet.. or what the dealer tells you..

[Vade]

Originally posted by DEVINF450R
oh and it is for sale

thats a very nice bike why would you want to sale such a nice bike :confused:

[DEVINF450R]

b/c I can turn faster lap times on my what was stock Zuki. It IS a nice 450r and I loved it, untill I got my Suzuki. If you can set-up a honda to the level of the Pro's then I think it is possibly better but much higher maintenance...yes the Hondas are alot of maitenance at the level. But the Suzuki fits me and my ride style much better

[DEVINF450R]

for 250r4life

[DEVINF450R]

a split second b4 that

[250r4life]

thats pictures for me huh? lol...

i dont have any pics of me beating LTR's- i dont know anybody that has a lense that shoots that wide of a screen to get the bikes that far behind me...

however, these raptors were beating the LTRs by a couple bike lengths... if you'll notice there were a couple LTRs in our group, as well as several others that were at the hill racing...

[250r4life]

one of the LTR's

[250r4life]

like i said... the LTRs didnt hang as good as these raptors did...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSEb3d29uWk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFgDb-RB6Mw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOcpFAtBt8k

[450Rchaser]

Haha, nice pic of the LTR sitting still. Ok if the honda has a Cam it will be better in the trails cause it will lug down real low and be able to bring the power back. The LTR has its strong points. MY LTR will stomp on a 480, 500, or any other modded 450r on a straight stretch.

[250r4life]

Originally posted by 450Rchaser
. MY LTR will stomp on a 480, 500, or any other modded 450r on a straight stretch.

riiiiiiiiiiiiggggggggght...

as if we can trust anything that comes from a guy who cant even spell the city in which he resides...

[450Rchaser]

Hahahahaa, I just noticed that after all this time. I actually live in Carthage, TN. Good eye!!

[450Rchaser]

OK, got it changed and spelled correctly.

[450Rchaser]

So is that white spec in the sand suppose to be an LTR

[DEVINF450R]

Hey 250r...nice riding pants in the pic:rolleyes:

Do the quad racing world a favor and NEVER...I mean NEVER call yourself a racer again:grr: Drag racing is not exactly racing, it is dump the clutch and push the throttle all the way in, hold the bars strait and let your motor do all the work. No (compared to TT or MX) skill needed
You and your ignorant types are what gives quad riders a bad name.
Do you have a 6-pak rack for that thing too?:rolleyes:

oh..nice haircut too:eek2:

[250r4life]

ha ha ha... i love it...

desperate to come up with anything, you start bringing up stuff that has no relevance whatsoever!!!

i love it- you bring up stuff that you know nothing about, and cant even see in the picture... actually, those are shift riding pants, and it was about 90 degrees out that day, so i zipped off the legs... i have a handfull of different riding pants, but what does that have to do with the price of tea in china?

no- my YFZ does not have a 6 pack rack... however, my 250r and one of my raptors does... whats your point? i would smoke you with a 6 pack rack the same as i would smoke you without...

Drag racing isnt racing? :huh do you even think about this stuff before you write it? did you not notice that in the phrase "Drag Racing" the second word happens to be "RACING!!!"
what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it.

when did i ever claim to be an MX racer? i didnt...

and there is a little more to dragging the hill at the dunes then what you make it out to be... those videos are china wall, where the whoops are pretty much non existant... regardless, we were talking about bikes werent we? so the fact that you passed some chump rider on a YFZ says absolutely nothing...

and how is it that me dragging the hill gives quad riders a bad name? you really are a blithering idiot, and your posts consist of jibberish... such as attacking my hair cut, that you cant even see...

you ride MX... i ride dunes.. matter or what you like... however, i would bet im in a much high percentile of duners than you are in MX "RACERS."

[DEVINF450R]

LOL.. nice quote from an over quoted movie. anyhow I just said that it takes little skill to drag "race". as I stated IMO TT and MX and i forgot to add XC (they are bad*****es) are the only true forms of quad racing...and 6-pak racks are why quads have a hard time getting respect...they are for people drink when they ride... yeah thats cool. Duning is cool and it is a fun RECREATION. so at these RACES of yours do you have scorers? number plates? AMA sanctioned? NO so they don't count. And I guarantee I could outride you in just more than MX. MX is a combination of everything. you HAVE to know how to ride to blitz a whoop section or huck a 100ft triple right out of a 45degree turn. And I will have you know that I am not too far down the list of good mx'ers... oh and how many sponsors do you get for your racing? Must suck to have to pay more than half of retail for all your race parts, gear, and six-pack racks. :D

[450rJam]

so we have gone from ltr vs R to mx vs drag ?

both are racing both take a combo of skill and quad to be good

the fact that devin changed to hair cuts and riding pants tells us all he has just thrown in the towel (no skill for that)

[250r4life]

Originally posted by 450rJam


the fact that devin changed to hair cuts and riding pants tells us all he has just thrown in the towel (no skill for that)

cut him some slack, obviously he is missing part of his brain.

[DEVINF450R]

I was merely pointing out the non racer characteristics he posseses, and the whole point of the thread was tossed out the window when he started praising a Yamaha...don't ya think?

[250r4life]

Originally posted by DEVINF450R
LOL.. nice quote from an over quoted movie. anyhow I just said that it takes little skill to drag "race". as I stated IMO TT and MX and i forgot to add XC (they are bad*****es) are the only true forms of quad racing...and 6-pak racks are why quads have a hard time getting respect...they are for people drink when they ride... yeah thats cool. Duning is cool and it is a fun RECREATION. so at these RACES of yours do you have scorers? number plates? AMA sanctioned? NO so they don't count. And I guarantee I could outride you in just more than MX. MX is a combination of everything. you HAVE to know how to ride to blitz a whoop section or huck a 100ft triple right out of a 45degree turn. And I will have you know that I am not too far down the list of good mx'ers... oh and how many sponsors do you get for your racing? Must suck to have to pay more than half of retail for all your race parts, gear, and six-pack racks. :D

oh the irony in you calling me ignorant...

whoop section? what are whoops? oh thats right you saw a video of china wall at the start of the season where the whoops are pretty much non existant...

to be a good hill shooter, you also have to know how to get the holeshot (its more than just dropping the clutch i assure you... which is probably why you never get the holeshot) and also have to know how to "blitz" a whoop section, in order that you can get your speed up for the hill...

ok... so i use my 6 pack rack to carry extra fuel... youre reaching...

ha ha ha... now YOU try to bring up finances as if youre going to win that battle... how much are you selling that "race ready" 450r for? what, about 1/4 of what you have into it? nice...

[250r4life]

Originally posted by DEVINF450R
I was merely pointing out the non racer characteristics he posseses, and the whole point of the thread was tossed out the window when he started praising a Yamaha...don't ya think?

no, you started reaching for whatever you could grab...

i dont have a 6 pack rack on my YFZ, you pulled that out your @$$...

those in fact were riding pants that you thought were some shorts...

by the way, those are actually tech 8's and not reeboks... dont want there to be any confusion... :devil:

[KingpinsEx]

Originally posted by DEVINF450R
then it is obvious you have never jumped a Suzuki LTR450. they fly so much flatter and straiter. they track corners and the power is better suited for mx IMO. I am a short guy at 5'6" so the ergonomics of the Suzuki fit me 10x better. and by stock I mean with a cherry bomb and air-box lid removed. I don't pull holeshots as much as I did with my built Honda, but now I do the passing instead of getting passed:macho

If you put a built motor to a bone stock motor, it will matter in the holeshot. I would say it is 50/50 reaction time/power providing the rider knows how to positon his body on a quad for max traction. If you have been out of racing for a while, then you might wanna go and watch one, what was A-class 5yrs ago is now top of c-class/low end of B-class. your 400 would not have a chance

I wasn't going to post anything but after wasting 10mins of my life reading this garbage i figured i might as well...obviously a built motor compared to stock will matter in the holeshot, but as I and many others have seen there are plenty of other factors that go into it. Rarley is it the quad with the most power making it out front, but the best rider (aka whos got balls).

And just FYI i haven't been out of racing that long and i attended some nationals (spectating) last year. I don't see the big change, only thing i noticed is ametures dumping alot more $$ into their bikes. But as my experience has shown that don't mean ****. Unless everyone attended Joe Byrds Quad riding school or something, i don't see the big change. No more cannondale and hyrbids are competing, that seems like the competition has gotten easier with the production machines.

Keep in mind there were plenty of 450s when i raced, before you make fun of my 400. Going off your reasoning, handling, ergos, comfort, the ex could be just as good as a 450 if im comfortable on it. The last race i was in i remeber i was battling with a LTR for the lead at a local ameture race (i'll admit i lost, but i still gave him a run). And i can remember him giving me a hard time about having elka shocks and being in the beginner class, like that was unfair haha....

[TMSmx47]

I started reading this thread and skipped to the end.. I have had both bikes, stock and modified. My LTR had what felt like more usable power and holeshotted like crazy. The LTR is waaayyy to heavy and sloppy though! Hard to be smooth on it. My 450R on the other hand I like 100% more. Much lighter, easy to move around and power is more topend. It corners 100 times better then the LTR but the LTR comes outta the corner faster. The 450R wheelies more also. So its really up in the air. Its easier to learn on the honda also. My opinion, I'll never ever ever own another Suzuki for as long as I live because in my eyes its the worst bike ever made!! I hate it more then my ex-wife! Again only my opinion guys!

[250r4life]

Originally posted by TMSmx47
I started reading this thread and skipped to the end.. I have had both bikes, stock and modified. My LTR had what felt like more usable power and holeshotted like crazy. The LTR is waaayyy to heavy and sloppy though! Hard to be smooth on it. My 450R on the other hand I like 100% more. Much lighter, easy to move around and power is more topend. It corners 100 times better then the LTR but the LTR comes outta the corner faster. The 450R wheelies more also. So its really up in the air. Its easier to learn on the honda also. My opinion, I'll never ever ever own another Suzuki for as long as I live because in my eyes its the worst bike ever made!! I hate it more then my ex-wife! Again only my opinion guys!

ha ha ha...





:devil:

[DEVINF450R]

Originally posted by TMSmx47
I started reading this thread and skipped to the end.. I have had both bikes, stock and modified. My LTR had what felt like more usable power and holeshotted like crazy. The LTR is waaayyy to heavy and sloppy though! Hard to be smooth on it. My 450R on the other hand I like 100% more. Much lighter, easy to move around and power is more topend. It corners 100 times better then the LTR but the LTR comes outta the corner faster. The 450R wheelies more also. So its really up in the air. Its easier to learn on the honda also. My opinion, I'll never ever ever own another Suzuki for as long as I live because in my eyes its the worst bike ever made!! I hate it more then my ex-wife! Again only my opinion guys!

are you tall?? It just seems to me that shorter riders AKA Doug Gust like the ergonomics of the Suzuki. I know that Wimmer and Weinen are tall.. but they didn't have the hand in designing the Suzuki. and they are still the quad you see the most at the tracks.

[TMSmx47]

Originally posted by DEVINF450R
are you tall?? It just seems to me that shorter riders AKA Doug Gust like the ergonomics of the Suzuki. I know that Wimmer and Weinen are tall.. but they didn't have the hand in designing the Suzuki. and they are still the quad you see the most at the tracks.

Gust isn't to small of a guy.. But yes Dustin and Chad are taller. Doesn't mean to much though.. Lol! You see more Suzuki's cuz they are the most affordable being MX ready. Put Digger on a Honda and you may see more Hondas at the track.. Who knows.. lol! Mainly its whatever you feel more comfortable on. I myself are more Honda.. My other friends went from red to yellow.

[DEVINF450R]

MY point was all my friends that are under 6ft like the LTR handling much better???? coincidence.. I am not too sure. I just know my lap times went down considerably.... and I went from mid-pack to up front finishes.

[660r2a400ex]

built ltr (desecent drag set up) vs. built 450r (great drag set up) honda wins buy 3 tenths. you guys have to factor in wieght of rider, rider ability and the set up of the two bikes

[ltrracer]

Originally posted by DEVINF450R
MY point was all my friends that are under 6ft like the LTR handling much better???? coincidence.. I am not too sure. I just know my lap times went down considerably.... and I went from mid-pack to up front finishes. am i not ur friend devin? lol im over 6 ft. lol

[DEVINF450R]

Originally posted by ltrracer
am i not ur friend devin? lol im over 6 ft. lol

YOU never had any other brand of 450, such as myself, to compare it to

[brink400]

I dont want to be a negative nancy but I liked the handling of MY 450r better then my 06 LTR, it just cornered like a f'in champ, but then I rode Joes 450 and didnt feel as comfy on it...I think it was the rear end that was no good. But then again the ride height on my zuki was ridiculous in the rear so hopefully the 08 will be much better since it wont have a POS stock shock. Lets just put it this way...if Honda goes EFI and ever changes their frames up so they dont break or just go aluminum ill probably switch back, unless suzuki does something way cooler.

[660r2a400ex]

the ltr handles better, its a better mx bike, the 450r feels better b/c it is more comfortable, better trail bike, as far as drag racing the ltr may be a little faster out the box but the honda responds better to mods, the ltr responds good to pipe and cherry bomb but once you get past that you u keep bolting parts on the honda will excell over the ltr, both quads are good, the honda will last longer...

[450rJam]

all the 450's are choked up in stock form

the 450r needs cam to wake up

the ltr has got to have the cherry bomb to come alive


I have said it before................

it would be great to see a "real world" shoot out of the 450's with the base mods

hrc 450r
yoshi/bomb ltr
cam/pipe yfz

etc. etc. etc.........................

I bet less than 10% of the 450's sold remain stock for any length of time at all

[Drewltr450]

ive got an ltr piped cherry bomb lid off, my friend has a 450r piped hrc kit. drag race probly 3/4 of a mile long i came off the line faster and at the finish line it was almost dead even we couldnt deside who won

[450rJam]

thats what im talking about...............now trade riders and run them again, and video it

I dont care who wins/loses but it would give alot better info than bench or dyno racing

or even use the same pilot on each atv but use a timed/lighted drag strip

[660r2a400ex]

yes, thats true, keep switching riders, the 450s all have pros and cons, but in the same modded condition each bike is very close, it all depends on which one you like the loooks of, personally the honda is my choice just b/c they have the reliabilty rep !

[LEOGM5150]

all the 450's i have raced on my predator have all been way behind and slow as crap. just kidding

out of all the 450's i have raced on my predator with a pipe filter cdi and weight dropped to about 390 pounds, i have won against alot of 450 trx's from stock to mildly built, i have beat a couple of stock yfz's, and but i have been beat by every modded yfz i have raced by 2 to 3 lengths with just a pipe and filter. i was also beat by a ltr with just a pipe filter and cherry bomb, he was also behind the yfz by one length but ahead of the 450r's by 3 or4 lengths. this racing was all done in the sand on a steep hill. all of us were only able to pull 3rd gear all the way up.

the only 450's there that were not in this same close 3 to 4 length group were 2 yfz's with pipes, filters, and cams retarded one tooth. these 2 yfz's were 7 or 8 lengths out in front of everyone. the only 2quads that beat these yfz's were a 7 mil stroked out 720 raptor that only weighed 320 pounds and a 12 mil stroked banshee. the raptor was only beating these guys by 2 or 3 lenghts and the banshee was about 5 lengths head of him.
the only 450 that seemed to be alot ahead of the others were the cam modded ones. weight matters alot. i lost to alot of bikes that i might have been able to beat if i wasn't so fat. i weigh about 275 pound and most of these guys were between 160 and 180 pounds. all racing is fun to me i love to ride on the track, xc, ice racing and love to drag race. i am too fat to be truly competitive in any of these. so guys with stock bikes can usually compete with me easily at all of them.

so the moral of my long winded story is this, they are all fast. they all do approximately 70 to 75 mph in stock form. the guys with more money into there engine win every time. 450 race class quads are all fast. just not as fast as i am on any quad i am riding.

1st off this is in the LTR forum so obviously there will be more biased opinions leaning toward the LTR winning. My friend has the YFZ, his brother has the LTR, and his dad has the TRX. The TRX450r would almost always win in a drag and when it got the HRC kit it wasnt even a race with the others. LTR has more snap to it and acceleration because of the 18" tires but with the HRC kit it didnt really matter. Switched riders and all and same outcome, TRX450r won. Now all the 450's have pros and cons to them, no one has made a perfect quad that everyone can agree on is better than the others. I think Honda, Suzuki, and Yamaha need to redesign their 450's. Not in body sense but suspension and tires. Look at the KTM450. Comes with Razrs and Ohlins from the factory. You pay the extra price up front but its cheaper than buying it separate. Or maybe the companies should do what Cannondale did in having a different model for all types of riding. I'm not saying they should go an make flat track racers factory because those arent practical and really in demand. But a XC and MX 450 would be great. Have the valving in the suspension set up for 1 or the other and have MX tires on 1 and XC tires on the other, know what i'm sayin?

[LEOGM5150]

i agree with that idea 100% that would be great for the consumer,but more complicated for the factories and less cost effective, besides 2 things wold happen the pathetic manufacturers would put the 18 in tires and xc valving on the left side and 22 in tires and mx valving on the right side. then you would have 10 times as many of these threads. i think my mx ltr would beat your xc trx, well maybe but my mx yfz will smoke your xc kfx;)

haha no motors will be the same maybe a different sprocket. Hey Cannondale did the whole shabang-a-bang they had a XC quad, MX quad, TT quad, and a regular genreral quad all from the factory. All had the same motor they just had different tires and i think the ohilns that came on them was set up for the style too.

[LEOGM5150]

i was mostly just screwing around but i truly would love to see the big three japanese manufacturers step it up a notch. although i am not totally convinced that the ds and kawi frame ideas are what we need, i am happy to see something different from them. i think the only ones that have really raised the bar are polaris and ktm with the ktm powered quads. the 3 outlaws irs xc/trail quad, the mxr mx quad and the s sand duner is where i would like to see things continue going. the ktm xc and mx quads with the amount of stock aftermarket are really above and beyond. i hope this is what we can continue to look for. ohlins shocks, adjustable axel, adjustable handlebar settings, chromoly everything. it is just great to see. there exhaust although queit with the core pulled out is as good as any aftermarket pipe out there. i really want one of those. since money is a factor for me i will probably buy a 525 s outlaw and add all those other things as i can afford.

yeah i'm hoping with KTM and Can-am rasiing the bar will make the other 3 major companies (Honda, Suzuki, and Yamaha) Really do something special to compete. who knows what the others have in store for next year

[660r2a400ex]

all the dales had different mapping and ecu curves too man, different power in different areas, that was the key to making four of the same motors shine on different tracks. theres a lot more to the dales then tires and gearing, my buddy has three of them

Originally posted by 660r2a400ex
all the dales had different mapping and ecu curves too man, different power in different areas, that was the key to making four of the same motors shine on different tracks. theres a lot more to the dales then tires and gearing, my buddy has three of them

thats awesome i wish i had 1

[660r2a400ex]

no you dont, the bikes are fast, the handle great, if they were realiable as a 400ex, hands down theyd be the best quad ever ! but thats the thing there not they constantly need attention as well as a constant money flow, the eat more money than gas, i would advise everybody to stay awway from them, everybody knocks on banshees b/c you have to rebuild once a year and stay up on your maintence well the dales are 1000 times worst.

[hondarider101]

trx 450r because its a HONDA!:D

Originally posted by 660r2a400ex
no you dont, the bikes are fast, the handle great, if they were realiable as a 400ex, hands down theyd be the best quad ever ! but thats the thing there not they constantly need attention as well as a constant money flow, the eat more money than gas, i would advise everybody to stay awway from them, everybody knocks on banshees b/c you have to rebuild once a year and stay up on your maintence well the dales are 1000 times worst.

sad to hear. i love my 400ex and wouldnt really trade it for anything other than a modded 450r

[Allison55ex'er]

wow some people are so gay

[450rJam]

you dug up a post that was almost a year old to say others are gay ????????

now that is gay

[Bruce300ex]

Well during the summer months i work at a Mx track. The LTRs seem to come out of the corners faster but the yamahas and the hondas always pull ahead of the LTRs. I have seen a fully built Yfz with a 480 kit and +3 a arms beat Modded LTRs, the guy on the Yamaha is one big guy probably weighs more than 260 considering he is 6'5 and built and the guy on the Modded LTR probably weighed 170 or so and was at least 15 years younger, the LTR came would start to catch up coming out of corners but the Yfz still smoked him, The guy on the LTR jumped better though but only cuz of the way the guy on the Yfz has to jump because he broke his leg last year and still hurts him
Although there was a kid on a 450r who had never been to an Mx track before with the baldest tires i have ever seen with plugs everywhere in them and basicaly stock except for a pipe and he was hitting our 80ft Double that is right out of a sharp turn
Oh and by the way im not biased toward any of the 450 because i dont own one just a 300ex

[CR500rider]

why would anyone start a "vs" thread in a section of the forum that is specifically dedicated to one brand of machine? everyone on this thread said the LTR is better.......WHAT A CONCEPT! To get better results post stuff like this in a section of the forum that is "multi brand" friendly lol.

On a side note, all the dfferent 450s are GREAT AWSOME machines. every machine has its strong points and weakneses. pick the one you think is most comfortable and if possible test ride each machine. Find a dealer that sells all different brands and go talk to the mechanics to see what machines have the most issues.

[Allison55ex'er]

Originally posted by 450rJam
you dug up a post that was almost a year old to say others are gay ????????

now that is gay

yah im readin alot of threads in this section before i get my quad and it just seems like i read so many of these where people are just being stupid. no information in this really these forums are for sharing info not bickering like school girls is what i think

[RATPACK Z400]

It seems like alot of honda owners that just cant stand the fact that suzuke has a great quad,two sounds like alot of people are making there opion on what the mags say,if the shootout were fair they would put same gearing,basics mods(air filter,cherrybomb,pipe,etc) tire size the same. then test them I bet you honda&yami wouldnt win drags, then they would be more even match, to race 18in tire against 20in rear isnt fair and not putting $40 cherrybomb(that almost is standard) on the LTR is not REAL shootout.and there are too many diehard honda owners to debate with cause all they think is honda is still the best, they were !now the others HAVE great quads and better ones and honda diehards still are riding the reliabilty BS that put honda were it is today all the 450 have problems hondas ARENT the best any more. they have just as many problems if not more than the other brands. Im glad we have so many to chose from these days If I were gonna race mx hands down LTR>

[Allison55ex'er]

was that aimed towards me?

[CR500rider]

I still dont think there is a "best" 450 quad. Its all rider preference. Quads dont win races, riders win races! I hate it when people say that brand "X" wins more races, the machine doesnt have hardly anything to do with it. You put a national champ from brand "X" and put him on brand "Y" and hes still gonna be a national champ! Just buy whatever feels right for you, dont listen to advertising and dont start "vs" threads. Every time someone starts a "vs" thread, God kills a kitten! lol

[Allison55ex'er]

the way that it is getting now is its just a money game whoever has the most bolt ons is gonna have the best quad theres less and less customization nowadays the other half of it is the rider maybe more than half but any quad u get u can work the kinks out of it it just takes money

[isma2racer9]

none of you guys must be serious racers?

If you had an full blown race LTR and 450R... the 450R would win in a DRAG, on the track the LTR will win, you would need an outstanding rider on the 450r and an eh ok rider on the LTR before it would win on the track

heres proof, who wins alot of mx holeshots? Honda and joe byrd
who wins the race? dustin wimmer and suzuki... even though i have seen quite a few suzuki's and even kawi's with the holeshots

[isma2racer9]

oh btw it also matters ALOT on the rider, me for example im 6'5 200 lbs i weigh about 30-50 pounds more than most of the riders, thats alot of extra weight to slow me down

[WesDS450X]

i see LTR's spanking trx450r's all day at the coast, honda's are slow peices of **** lol

[Allison55ex'er]

lol here it goes again. my bad

Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
It seems like alot of honda owners that just cant stand the fact that suzuke has a great quad,two sounds like alot of people are making there opion on what the mags say,if the shootout were fair they would put same gearing,basics mods(air filter,cherrybomb,pipe,etc) tire size the same. then test them I bet you honda&yami wouldnt win drags, then they would be more even match, to race 18in tire against 20in rear isnt fair and not putting $40 cherrybomb(that almost is standard) on the LTR is not REAL shootout.

dont know why i am bothering to say this but you put the same gearing on quads and one will go 50mph and the other will do 80mph. gearing internally is so different you have to use sprockets to balance it out with other quads. who cares about drag racing a quad i would never buy a quad because its a good drag racer. The TRX has more HP than the YFZ but now the YFZ has EFI so it probally has more now. LTR is a nice quad

[RATPACK Z400]

not saying drag racing makes a quad ,its running the quads to see which has the best acceleration is what these mags are doing, then saying that this ones faster than this one, when there not on the same playingg field to run 18in verse 20in in a drag the 20s will have more top speed they also dont tell you that the 18in got holeshot and then was passed dew to gearing and tire size. thats all im saying run them all then see .and gearing is a little different on other quads but not that much off its how much torque the quads have depends on what gearing to go with, but put the same gearing ,tires to see what needs to be changed first we all would love to see a shootout with basic mods on the quads that would be a real shootout!

[450rJam]

yes yes yes

intake/pipe/jet/rev. and then shoot them out

very few keep them stock

[leasureryan]

Originally posted by WesDS450X
i see LTR's spanking trx450r's all day at the coast, honda's are slow peices of **** lol

AMEN bro! I LOVE my LT-R....and have riden tons of TRX's......I wouldn't trade it for nothing! I love my Honda's, don't get me wrong.....but they have a TON of catching up to do when it comes to 450R design.....they seem to be the only ones who have stayed the same, everyone else has new frames, EFI, etc etc......what has Honda done? oh yeah...they added electric strat....lol

[450rJam]

the e-start was added in 06, only thing new since then is
"bold new colors and graphics"

honda is not cutting edge by anyones measurements
but when they put out a product it is always great

No atv is a perfect fit for everyone

only atv I would be willing to trade my trx450r for would be the ktm (but cost isnt going to let that happen)

so I am happy as a clam to roll on my 450r

[LTRracer4]

i ride my mechanics 450r sometimes and i cant stand it. granted it has elkas, the handling sucks compared to my Fox/walsh ltr, but they arent set up for me, and i havent rode spring shocks in a long time. The power was alright, but once again i like the curve on my LTR more. its all personal preference. no doubt about it.