My 400EX is kicking my butt (Non stock suspension)

[brackneyc]

I recently bought this used, previously raced 400EX. The thing runs great, but the race suspension is killing me. It has a +2 front end, as well as a +2 axle. The rear shock has some different linkage in it, and the front end feels like it is not working at all (stutter bumps send me all over the place).

I know the shocks are revalved to accomodate a somewhat lighter rider, but even at low speeds, it is a bone jarring ride. Anyone else ride a 400ex on the trail, with a racing suspension? The wide stance is taking some getting used to, but the overall ride has got to be addressed. Is it likely that the shocks are the culprit here, or is the + 2 on both ends the issue. The motor is awesome, but the ride is almost unbearable. I have a post in the for sale section where I am entertaining the idea of swapping the front end back to stock, and selling/trading all of the aftermarket stuff I have on the bike.

I'd like to just fix what I have, but maybe this is just normal for this set up.

that scares me because i wanted to have the same setup with a revalved rear and the works tripple rate fronts. myabe your getting bump steer with the +2 a-arms idk. please clue me in here because i wanted to do the same thing as you have with your shocks

[brackneyc]

Considering all of the things this quad has on it, I must assume I am doing something wrong. The parts are in good shape, and the quad is tight. It just feels like there is almost no action in the front end.

Are these Works the compression/rebound and preload adjusting ones? If so I bet if you play around with these they will be great. The quad was probally valved for MX which they make more stiff due to big jumps and hard landings.

[brackneyc]

Well, I am not sure. They have two separate springs (a little one and a big one), and a valve of some sort on the top of each shock. I think I will try to move the ring down on the shock (making them a little tighter). Not sure what the valve on top is for. Believe it or not, I have been riding quads for years. I have always left the suspensions stock, so this is my first go around with the aftermarket suspension stuff. I have always been a motor guy. This one has the motor I want, so I am sort of lost. :)

yeah same with te leaving suspension stock settings and all. Last weekend I went out riding and after reading i decided to try and adjust my rear shock. It made all the difference in the world turning a screw a quarter to the right. I was amazing how smooth the sock was with just a simple turn. If you can post pictures and I can probally tell you what is what.

[brackneyc]

I did crank my rear shock spring almost all the way down. Maybe I'll back it off a little. The rear isn't the big problem right now. Is it possible that the fron t shcoks could take a little air pressure? I saw a set on Ebay that look exactly like mine, and they claim to be adjustable with the air vavle on top of the shock.

I would mess with letting any fluid out or trying to put air in. The only shocks that I know of tat use air pressure are FOX shocks. The Works hve fluids in them. The rear shock turning the rings all the way down might be too much preload. The 1st thing is how much you weight. The rear should sag something like 30% from when noone is on it, to when our on it with all your gear. If it was raced MX everything is most likely set way too stiff for trails.

[brackneyc]

I know I need to let it off some. I am not going to mess with the fronts, except to move the retaining spring a little, just to see what happens. I go about 210, so I am not tiny. :)

[CannondaleRider]

Don't mess with stuff, unless you know exactly what your doing. That schrader valve is for nitrogen....

I think you need to give a better description of what the suspension is doing.

In the choppy stuff, where it's sending you out of control a bit....is the front end just staying stiff, and bouncing over the terrain, instead of soaking it up....or is it soaking up one hit, then not doing anything? What exactly is the suspension doing....thats more along the lines of what we need to know, not what your feeling quite as much.

If you can, post pictures of the bike, so I can see the front end setup. With that setup, if adjusted right, along with the rest of the bike being setup right, should give you a very good ride. Shouldn't feel out of control on studder bumps, and should stay planted fairly well.

This may sound stupid to you, but whats the air pressure in your front tires?

I think your best bet is to ask either Works, or a revalving company. Tell them you bought this ATV and the suspension on it is way too stiff. They may be able to help you with adjustments to do.

[brackneyc]

Originally posted by CannondaleRider
Don't mess with stuff, unless you know exactly what your doing. That schrader valve is for nitrogen....

I think you need to give a better description of what the suspension is doing.

In the choppy stuff, where it's sending you out of control a bit....is the front end just staying stiff, and bouncing over the terrain, instead of soaking it up....or is it soaking up one hit, then not doing anything? What exactly is the suspension doing....thats more along the lines of what we need to know, not what your feeling quite as much.

If you can, post pictures of the bike, so I can see the front end setup. With that setup, if adjusted right, along with the rest of the bike being setup right, should give you a very good ride. Shouldn't feel out of control on studder bumps, and should stay planted fairly well.

This may sound stupid to you, but whats the air pressure in your front tires?


Not sure what the tire pressure is, Ill check it tomorrow. The front end sags (with no one on it) to the point of the a arms being almost flat (if this makes sense) The front end just doesn't seem to be going through the cycle when I get in to the rough stuff. Almost like the springs just don't have any life in them. They are however set very low (not much tension at all).

I'll post pics tomorrow.

[CannondaleRider]

Wow, if it sags that much with no rider, you definatly have a spring problem.

For XC style riding, the frame at the pegs should be about 8-10 inches off the ground(depending on preference), and the front of the frame(before it angles up) should be about a 1/4" more.

I'm not real knowledgable on Works shocks, but if they have a clip system for the spring adjustment, take it down 3 or 4 notches, and see what that does for your spring tension. Is your Houser front end Long Travel, or Standard travel? Either way, it's possible the shocks are spung, and valved, for a stock width front end...so the +2's would cause your sag problem.

With sag like that, I'm willing to bet your front end just cannot rebound, so it soaks up one hit, and just stays packed up. Which can lead to limited control, and a bone-jarring ride.

Yeah shocks that dont have enough rebound get compression where one hit soaks it up then it just keeps packing it on to give it less and less travel. Too little or too much rebound makes a harsh ride and makes it seem like your riding a bull. You have to tune shocks to your riding styles and weight.

[brackneyc]

The guy I bought it from said the a arms were + 2, but set up for stock length shocks. Does that sound right? I am going to bump the springs down tomorrow, but it may be a week before I can get back out.

They need to be revalved. The added leverage from +2 makes the shocks setup for stock really easy to bottom out. Thats the problem. Call or email some revalving places. The site sponsor C&D racing does it along with GT Thunder, and a few others.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
They need to be revalved. The added leverage from +2 makes the shocks setup for stock really easy to bottom out. Thats the problem. Call or email some revalving places. The site sponsor C&D racing does it along with GT Thunder, and a few others.

He probably just meant that they are set up for standard travel ... meaning stock length shocks, or at least thats the way I read it. Sounds like you may not be riding to the full ability of the shocks, or they are simply just not set up for your weight.

[brackneyc]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
He probably just meant that they are set up for standard travel ... meaning stock length shocks, or at least thats the way I read it. Sounds like you may not be riding to the full ability of the shocks, or they are simply just not set up for your weight.

I can gurantee you that I am not riding up to the potential of this bike. :) Hell, I doubt I've ever tested most of my bikes suspensions beyond the stock capabilities. :)

Am I going to be better off going back to stock, or can this setup be dialed into my riding style (old and a little slower than before).

[CannondaleRider]

I doubt it has anything to do with you not riding hard enough.

It's clear that the bike is sagging far to much, and is not at all setup right.

Figure out the problem, set them up a little better, and you'll be golden.

Believe me, that front end, setup right, will be leaps and bounds better for you, then a stock setup. In many different ways.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by CannondaleRider


Believe me, that front end, setup right, will be leaps and bounds better for you, then a stock setup. In many different ways.


agreed, you would be the only person I've ever heard thats considering going back to stock from an aftermarket front end.

[brackneyc]

I know it seems wierd to want to go back to stock, but if I cannot get this setup to work without spending a ton of money, I'd rather start off with it working good in stock form, versus poorly in modified form. I am not giving up on it just yet. You guys have me convinced that I may be able to tweak it enough like it is to get it working well. I did tighten up the front springs a little today, and took a little off the back at the same time. Haven't had a chance to ride it yet, but this week for sure.

[Big - D Racing]

What kind of shocks are they? There has to be a logo on them somewhere? Or what color are the shock coils. Certain companies stick with certain colors to identify them from the competition. TO me you are crazy if you go back to stock. Aftermarket when setup properly is like night and day difference. SO MUCH SMOOTHER IN ALL AREAS! I'd first figure out what exactly they are. And is it the same brand in the rear? You said it has an aftermarket linkage, is that linkage annodized red? If so you probably are running ELKAS which are awesome shocks. I would find a shop that does suspension work near you and have them rebulit for your weight and riding style and then have them dial them in. Is there any oil on the shock shaft around the seal? If so then they are blown. The nitrogen could just need to be refresshed. There are so many reasons. Especially if it was a racing bike. Typically a racer rebuilds their shocks once or twice a season to keep them optimal. A non racer should rebulid every year or two depending on how much you are riding them. Take some pics and post them, I'll tell you what brand they are by looking at them. Also do they have resivor's?

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by brackneyc
I know it seems wierd to want to go back to stock, but if I cannot get this setup to work without spending a ton of money, I'd rather start off with it working good in stock form, versus poorly in modified form. I am not giving up on it just yet. You guys have me convinced that I may be able to tweak it enough like it is to get it working well. I did tighten up the front springs a little today, and took a little off the back at the same time. Haven't had a chance to ride it yet, but this week for sure.

A poorly set up front end will probably still ride 10x better than the best of stock front ends....

[CannondaleRider]

Originally posted by Big - D Racing
What kind of shocks are they? There has to be a logo on them somewhere? Or what color are the shock coils. Certain companies stick with certain colors to identify them from the competition. TO me you are crazy if you go back to stock. Aftermarket when setup properly is like night and day difference. SO MUCH SMOOTHER IN ALL AREAS! I'd first figure out what exactly they are. And is it the same brand in the rear? You said it has an aftermarket linkage, is that linkage annodized red? If so you probably are running ELKAS which are awesome shocks. I would find a shop that does suspension work near you and have them rebulit for your weight and riding style and then have them dial them in. Is there any oil on the shock shaft around the seal? If so then they are blown. The nitrogen could just need to be refresshed. There are so many reasons. Especially if it was a racing bike. Typically a racer rebuilds their shocks once or twice a season to keep them optimal. A non racer should rebulid every year or two depending on how much you are riding them. Take some pics and post them, I'll tell you what brand they are by looking at them. Also do they have resivor's?

Look at his signature.

WORKS Triple Rate Front Shocks
GT Thunder MX Linkage w/ Stock Shock

[250rmike]

just another suggestion if the bike has +2 a-arms the shocks are prolly valved for mx which would make the bike rougher to ride and sag lower than if they were valved for xc since you are supposed to be landing off of jumps just a suggestion. also dont let any fluid out if you dont have a compresion knob or a rebound screw dont turn anything. also with adjusting the springs the only thing that you are going to get out of that is ride height nothing else