Schell/Fredericks back on Honda? [Archive]

OutlawBill

10-04-2007, 08:28 AM

Originally posted by Punk'd
Why doesnt Can-Am get their crap togther and fix whatever is holding up production. Our rep told me they are having some issues with them and thats why its taking so long to release..

Everyones going to be getting mixed thoughts if they find out can am went back to Canada while their two pro riders are chillen in the states on their hondas!

Welcome to the world of first year release When the Outlaw was first hit the press in Sep 05 I did not get my Outlaw till Feb 06, and I got one of the first ones out. I can under stand Josh and Jeremy not wanting to take time off from work. If they are going to race the Baja 1000 next month they will need all there vacation time to get ready for it.

LTR450_#67

10-04-2007, 09:44 AM

Yeah I thought for sure they would have the CanAms by now..... As for issues, I read on another site a guy was at the Montreal SX and he said the CanAm mechanics were busy as hell just to keep Gees and Bakers quads going from all of the issues. They didn't have DNFs so they must have done something right.

OutlawBill

10-04-2007, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by LTR450_#67
Yeah I thought for sure they would have the CanAms by now..... As for issues, I read on another site a guy was at the Montreal SX and he said the CanAm mechanics were busy as hell just to keep Gees and Bakers quads going from all of the issues. They didn't have DNFs so they must have done something right. When a Pros quad is raced by a different Pro it is not going too work 100% for the new racer. You have different riding stiles, weight differences, and different shock setup. It says a lot for Gee and the DS450 that he got on the Podium at all

Can-Am Fan

10-04-2007, 10:56 AM

All I can say is right now things are being prepared for the 2008 season. This whole end of the year has been to get the racing program up and running, which includes getting the teams set up, getting the bikes worked out for the various types of events that it will be running in, and to get their production facilities up and running.

They are not looking to have a flop on their hands, so they let their racers beat them up for you. I have heard on no major issues holding up the release, matter of fact I don't recall them ever stating when it would be released. This is a big deal for them and they want everything to go as smooth as possible for the consumer.

As for their mechanics working on the bikes, I can tell you that they used different motor setups for the supercross than they used for the WORCS races. Plus their new riders require different setups than the ones they have been working with so there is a learning curve there.

As for why Josh and Jeremy had to ride Hondas. Can-Am wanted a good showing in their countries marquis event, they already had hired Canadian Greg Gee and Sage Baker, so this was a good time to reveal them as factory riders. Josh and Jeremy wanted to race the ITP so they had their Hondas available to run and that's what they did. All the factory support was in Canada, and they don't want any riders out there without team support and have any technical issues without the mechanics there to resolve them since there are few yet with the background to work on them, while the Honda's were a safe choice since many have experience with them.

All the answers will come to full light soon and Can-Am will be the ones to tell you, but till then, rest assured they are doing everything to insure that when they hit the market, it will be more dialed in than any 1st year bike you have seen to date.

OutlawBill

10-04-2007, 12:11 PM

I agree TPR I think Can-Am is going to put the other manufactures too shame in the quality and quantity of support for quad racing next year.

LTR450_#67

10-04-2007, 12:37 PM

IDK....BUT, I know that from working on the BRP/SkiDoo sleds they aren't the greatest. A good friend of mine that rides in the mountains (Wyoming) had his 2006 MXZ600 REV go haywire on him after only riding it about 30mins. He took it to the dealer and the dealer already had 5 of them sitting there with the same problem....

It should be a good quad. I can tell you already they will make better results than Kawi did in its first season.

rob-u/21

10-04-2007, 01:54 PM

If they are going to race the Baja 1000 next month they will need all there vacation time to get ready for it.

Has it been confirmed that they will race the 1000? I thought there was a WORCS race that same weekend. Well, the 1000 does end on a wednsday so they can make it back.

ThePhantomRider

10-04-2007, 02:34 PM

From what I hear they will probably either split team it with one going to the 1000 and one going to the WORCS race. I don't know if they will be running the 450 at the 1000 but definitally have the Renegade running.

TPR

Can-Am Fan

10-04-2007, 02:59 PM

Baker and Gee are two fast young up and commers. I think Can-Am hit the nail on the head with these two.

Looking at lap times at WPSA events, Gee was as fast consistently as the top 5 pro's, I think this will be a big year for him. Baker likewise has a golden oppertunity and I wonder if there will be any other people signed to this promising team.

Ex_Rider43

10-04-2007, 05:56 PM

I dont think that Sage and greg were riding shell and fredericks bikes here at montreal ,

in fact they came up here almost 2 weeks before the event to practice with the new Ds , at montreal they had the big Epic can-am rig and the bike looked BRAND new, all built and far from stock. Sage was running the KYB race shocks and greg had Evols front and a podium rear because he is still under contract with Fox. Other than that and tire choices, both bikes looked identical.

Allen white was one of the mechanic there working on the bikes ( this guy is so cool ! ) and they wrenched on the bikes between practice , mainly working on finding the right suspension setup which was pretty tough cause I had a hard time finding the right spot on my bike too. They made sure that everything would be perfect for the main event on saturday night , tighting every bolts with a torque wrench after every run which made me think that this team will be one to watch in 08. those DS looked good and fast out there !

CannondaleRider

10-04-2007, 06:00 PM

Originally posted by ThePhantomRider
From what I hear they will probably either split team it with one going to the 1000 and one going to the WORCS race. I don't know if they will be running the 450 at the 1000 but definitally have the Renegade running.

TPR

I talked to Josh last week....he told me they will be running the 450 at the 1000. He told me that the Renegade works very well in that genre, but they want to showcase the 450. I also heard from a teammate of mine, Brandon Brown, [[his 1000 partner, Levi Marana]](I was ill-informed, corrected below!).. along with Josh, that there is a way they can do both SCORE and WORCS, schedule wise. It's a bit interesting, but it can be done.

I doubt they would send Josh to the 1000, with him being the points leader for the Pro class in WORCS, and I doubt they would send Jeremy down.....just because

I guess we'll see what happens either way.

rob-u/21

10-04-2007, 06:05 PM

that there is a way they can do both SCORE and WORCS, schedule wise. It's a bit interesting, but it can be done.

Like I said, registration for the 1000 is monday, race starts on tuesday, and you finish on wed. So I'm thinking they will probably fly back on thursday and race WORCS that weekend.

CannondaleRider

10-04-2007, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by rob-u/21
Like I said, registration for the 1000 is monday, race starts on tuesday, and you finish on wed. So I'm thinking they will probably fly back on thursday and race WORCS that weekend.

Actually, The WORCS Round at Taft, is the weekend of the 10th.....

Brandon told me, that he will actually go down, prerun what he can, fly back for WORCS, then go back down for the 1000.

rob-u/21

10-04-2007, 06:25 PM

Yeah, your right. That makes it even easier for them.

CannondaleRider

10-04-2007, 08:47 PM

OK, I have to correct my ill-informed self.

For some reason, I had it in my head that my teammate Brandon Brown was riding with Levi, like he had last year.

Just talked to him, he's actually riding WITH Josh and the rest of Can-Am. So, now I have a Team Money$hot teammate as a temporary Can-Am rider :p

Sorry if there was confusion, lol.

ThePhantomRider

10-05-2007, 09:28 AM

As I heard, one of the Can-Am teams will probably be running the Renegade, likely Tony Baker though this was speculation, but I believe he recently took the Renegade out to try to solo the V2R to get ready for the 1000.

We'll see though because I am of the opinion that it may be in their best interest to get the quad out to the public first as anything can happen at the 1000 and even if you have the most fresh, well set up quad, somthing screwey can happen and last thing you want is to have someone say...."Look that quad blew up a motor or tranny or somthing at the 1000, maybe it's not as durable as it seems..." Then again, there would be no better endorsement if they took the 450 down there and won first time out....double edged sword to be sure.

Sad thing was I am a huge Suzuki fan, ever since I had a Jr50 and RM 80, I loved the Quadracer and was thinking of getting the new 450, but after talking to an engine builder I know, I heard they need alot of wrenching, and he had seen a couple LT-R's come in with blown motors after less than 20 hours on them.

At least with the KTM's you get a quad that looks like the old Quadracers/Quadsport....If not for the Can-Am, the KTM 525xc would be my next quad.

TPR

LTR450_#67

10-05-2007, 10:47 AM

Yeah it's kind of a gamble.......go big or go home.

"Sad thing was I am a huge Suzuki fan, ever since I had a Jr50 and RM 80, I loved the Quadracer and was thinking of getting the new 450, but after talking to an engine builder I know, I heard they need alot of wrenching, and he had seen a couple LT-R's come in with blown motors after less than 20 hours on them."

A lot of wrenching? I can't imagine how much more I would need to have it on rev limiter to have something give. Besides you're going to be wrenching on it no matter what brand you have. I'm not saying my zuke is invinceable. It's just I have had great luck with it and I have at least 90-100hrs on it. I do all of my maintenance on it. I've only had to adjust my valves once. If I were to say what is the weak spot on the Zukes it would probably be the tranny.....

Yeah the new Can-Am may be the hardest running 450 out now but does that mean it may need a lot of wrenching? We will find out soon.

OutlawBill

10-10-2007, 09:18 AM

One more race with out the DS450

CannondaleRider

10-10-2007, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by OutlawBill
One more race with out the DS450

Huh? lol

calds650

10-10-2007, 12:58 PM

This past weekend ITP QX it look like Jeremy Schell won on the Honda

CannondaleRider

10-10-2007, 01:07 PM

Hmmm...I just noticed that

http://www.atvriders.com/atvracing/itpquadcross/200709landonhurstwin.jpg

Somebody else may talk to them before then, but I'll talk to Jeremy sometime next week, so I might see what the deal is then.

Interesting, to say the least.

I know Josh was racing the Utility at the Endurocross....placed 7th from what i've heard. Maybe that was the deal....kind of like the odd "all bikes go to Montreal" deal...maybe all the bikes went to Oklahoma with Josh on the Utility. Makes no sense, but that would explain it.

OutlawBill

10-24-2007, 06:31 PM

They were back on the Can-Am's but will be on a new team next year.

hasbeenttduner

10-25-2007, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by OutlawBill
They were back on the Can-Am's but will be on a new team next year.

Yes both were on the ds450 at pismo and both dnf.1-got hot and 1-?.

CannondaleRider

10-25-2007, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by hasbeenttduner
Yes both were on the ds450 at pismo and both dnf.1-got hot and 1-?.

Jeremy's muffler came off on about the 2nd lap.

As for Josh....I didn't get a chance to talk to him on Sunday, but....his bike came through the pits running stong it seemed...then it quit in the holeshot corner. Not sure what the deal was. No big deal though...although bittersweet, he did tie up the 2007 WORCS Pro Championship.

RosquistRacer39

10-28-2007, 07:39 PM

Only problem is that it doesn't show good for the reliability of these bikes. Seems that every race they have been to they have had some kind of problems. If Josh wasn't on a honda at the first of the year he probably wouldn't have that championship now.

ThePhantomRider

10-29-2007, 10:45 AM

Well that could be true, but here's the real story.

Any issue that has arisen with their race bikes has already been addressed in the production lines. These are things you have seen and anything that has come up in race testing. They have taken these 6 months to really pound out as many issues that could come up as possible so they don't make it to production and then have to be both addressed in production as well as going back and fixing a bunch of quads that have already been sold.

Also, this has been an oppertunity to test out new things, and issues like an exhaust falling off are part of that. If you remember, the first race was won by Josh in crap conditions with no issues....someone tried to say the motor was smoking, but it was actually steam from all the water they were riding in.

That was a stock bike, since then they have been working with new racing components, different porting, compression, fuel maps for different racing conditions and it's all hit and miss. But that's called R&D.

Mark my words, the 1st year DS will have fewer issues than the other 450's in their 1st years, and that's because they really took their time to get it right, and you won't have line wide issues like big blue with their tranny issues of the past.

TPR

CannondaleRider

10-29-2007, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by ThePhantomRider
Well that could be true, but here's the real story.

Any issue that has arisen with their race bikes has already been addressed in the production lines. These are things you have seen and anything that has come up in race testing. They have taken these 6 months to really pound out as many issues that could come up as possible so they don't make it to production and then have to be both addressed in production as well as going back and fixing a bunch of quads that have already been sold.

Also, this has been an oppertunity to test out new things, and issues like an exhaust falling off are part of that. If you remember, the first race was won by Josh in crap conditions with no issues....someone tried to say the motor was smoking, but it was actually steam from all the water they were riding in.

That was a stock bike, since then they have been working with new racing components, different porting, compression, fuel maps for different racing conditions and it's all hit and miss. But that's called R&D.

Mark my words, the 1st year DS will have fewer issues than the other 450's in their 1st years, and that's because they really took their time to get it right, and you won't have line wide issues like big blue with their tranny issues of the past.

TPR

Good post.

As for the smoke/steam deal at Straddleline. I still believe it was smoke. Obviously, in those conditions, there was water everywhere. BUT, the bike was steaming right when he came off the track, he rode over to the pits, then rode it back to tech for the Post-race sound check. It wasn't steaming when he rolled it around and shut it off. When he fired it back up, then revved it up for the test, it appeared it started smoking, from nowhere other then around the exhaust. Not saying it couldn't have been steam, but I would think it was smoke. It doesn't bother me though, in those conditions, to win a Pro-Main with a new bike like that, it would not surprise me for it to need a rebuild. No big deal.

As for them being "Stock"....they were not stock. They were closer to stock then the other Pro bikes, but they were not stock. I believe the motors being stock, but Josh's exact quote about the race was about them being COMPLETELY stock. They had Epic LT front ends, with the Bilstein shocks like on the race bike everybodies been posting pictures of on this forum, I'm pretty sure they had aftermarket rear shocks also. It shows a lot for a stock motored bike to do that well, but it kind of rubbed me the wrong way for the Can-Am boys to claim them being COMPETELY stock, when that was not the case.......none the less, very impressive showing.
http://gallery.off-road.com/photobb/data/4119/medium/sat06_323.jpg

ThePhantomRider

10-29-2007, 11:45 AM

Yes you're right....I should have said the motor was stock. The arms were LT's and the shocks were the ones KYB is making for the racers since they make the production shocks. I think some of the guys will run the KYB's and some will ride FOX etc, but I have heard the KYB's are getting really good.

Plus there were the obvious little things every racer does to get his quad dialed in for himself, but the inside of that motor was what you will get when you buy one. And it can win races!!!:D

TPR

spanky101

10-29-2007, 09:18 PM

The internal motor was stock, but they had sparks pipes and obviously a new map of some sort i would imagine for the pipe and the efi.

I am really excited to start seeing these bikes get worked out and everything dialed in and set up so we can get these bikes produced so we can get parts and everything else too!

CannondaleRider

10-29-2007, 09:58 PM

Originally posted by spanky101
The internal motor was stock, but they had sparks pipes and obviously a new map of some sort i would imagine for the pipe and the efi.

I am really excited to start seeing these bikes get worked out and everything dialed in and set up so we can get these bikes produced so we can get parts and everything else too!

Yep Sparks pipes, and they were remapping them a bit on the Friday before the MX Practice.

rob-u/21

10-30-2007, 09:38 AM

Hey PhantomRider, you seem to know the epic guys pretty well, is Josh and Jeremy going to riding epic products with the motoworks team? How about any of the other CanAM teams? will they be running epic products?

ThePhantomRider

10-30-2007, 10:45 AM

I don't know. Obviously the Epic team will run their stuff, but as far as the Motoworks team of Josh and Jeremy, they may or may not ride their stuff. I think with the other teams it's rider choice, however I do believe that the Warnert guys may be testing the Epic stuff for use as I think Can-Am would like that.

I also think that ATV 4 Play has developed their stuff for the DS already as well, and that may be because they have worked with John Natalie recently.

I do know that Greg Gee, Sage Baker and Jeremy Lawson have been testing and very happy with thier setups. Epic does have an advantage having worked during the DS development in how the suspension should work even when you modify it as you can see on their site they already have a linkage to change the rear end for different contiditons or rider taste.

Epic doesn't have any say so over the other teams. They will all work together for R&D and compete against each other as just like in NASCAR you have several teams with Chevy, Ford, etc...they all have their own setups off the base. So they are all one Can-Am team, but have individual goals set. Should do wonders for Can-Am whenever they start developing or revising new quads as they now have a bunch of quality riders for input.

Can-Am has set the bar real high for the competition as far as racing goes and it will be interesting to see how the others respond.

TPR

khj

10-30-2007, 11:55 AM

Jeremy is not under contract for 2008.

He is currently exploring his options for next year !

If you are interested in getting involved with what he will be doing next year send me a pm.

ThePhantomRider

10-30-2007, 12:01 PM

Wow, from what I had read on the front page of the site, I thought he had signed up with Motoworks, at least that's what the press release said.

Well, if he's not signed, that's news to me and I hope he does well.

TPR

khj

10-30-2007, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by ThePhantomRider
Wow, from what I had read on the front page of the site, I thought he had signed up with Motoworks, at least that's what the press release said.

Well, if he's not signed, that's news to me and I hope he does well.

TPR

Wow was the same thing we thought when we read the press release.

No signed deal with anyone at the moment.

P. Gozinya

10-31-2007, 11:01 PM

I have been thinking about selling my TRX450 ever since the news of the DS450 came out. Because I was unsure of selling my “Baby” I decided to check out the bike in person. i recently went to Glen Helen and saw the bike and I knew right away that I was going to get one. Then I walked around the track with my kids to watch the races. To my delight I saw one of Can-Am’s Factory riders Jeremy Schell watching the races close by. I was going to talk to him and get his opinion of the bike but I changed my mind after i saw him throw a beer at a passing rider on the track. That was a tough one to explain to my kids. Yes kids that was dangerous. Yes kids he could have made that guy crash. Yes kids that guy is very bad... I came here to get more info on the bike and I came to this conclusion: Can Am would be STUPID to sign this guy. If they allow this type of nonsense from their riders, what does that say about the rest of their program? How will I be treated as a customer? The fact is Can Am has a lot riding on this new bike and being that they are not in the “Big 4” (Honda.Kawi,Suzuki,Yamaha) I don’t think they can afford this guys bad P.R.. Then again I am just an average guy who wants info on the new bike. Is it fast? How does it handle? Etc.. I did ask a tall guy in the Can Am pits about the bike and he gave me good info. No Beers were thrown either. At least that part of the team seems ok. If anyone has good info about the bike post it please.

CannondaleRider

11-01-2007, 12:10 AM

Wow, that's beyond surprising.

I haven't known Jeremy for long, but I've dealt with him enough that I would NEVER imagine him being such a person as you've described. He's always willing to joke and mess with people, but in a positive light, not in what you described.

This may sound really stupid to you, and I apoligize if it offends you for any reason, but are you absolutely sure it was him? I'd actually have a hard time believing Jeremy would act like that.

P. Gozinya

11-02-2007, 03:00 PM

Yes, I was at the races weith my buddy and he saw it too. His kid is in the ITP and WORCS series races so they have seen Jeremy throughout the season. I have also seen him before at many different tracks. I dont know him personally and I cant say that this is usual behavior for him but it was VERY careless to say the least. Anyone who doesnt think so, Ask J.J. what he thinks. ask the guy he threw the beer at. what it that had madde him crash?
The whole reason I came to this website was to learn about the DS 450. I stumbled across this portion and started reading. I have no clue what the future holds for him but I would say His Factory days are over for a while. None of the Factory teams can afford bad publisity like that, especially when the sport is taking off.

rob-u/21

11-02-2007, 03:04 PM

I wonder who he threw the beer at?

P. Gozinya

11-02-2007, 05:37 PM

Does it matter? The point is, he could have caused and accident that could have injured, paralyzed or worse, killed someone. The fact that he was drinking beer by the track doesn't show much professionalism anyway. Throwing the beer says he has a severe lack of common sense. I would like to say again, I have no personal knowledge of his character, integrity, personality or habits. Maybe someone should ask his former team (EPIC) or teammates how he is. I am sure that Can Am is very skeptical about him at this point. I think it sucks because i hate to see wasted talent.

khj

11-05-2007, 10:17 AM

- it was an empty beer can (which belonged to Kory's support team)

- the rider was Kory Ellis (which Jeremy is very good friends with)

- Kory let the gate drop and sit there until the rest of the riders were around the first corner then he took off to play catch-up so Jeremy and Kory's team tossed empty water bottles and beer cans in front of Kory
(no harm meant, or taken)

- If you would info on the new DS450 pm me with your phone number and I will have Jeremy call you and answer all of your questions personally

THANKS

CannondaleRider

11-05-2007, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by khj
- it was an empty beer can (which belonged to Kory's support team)

- the rider was Kory Ellis (which Jeremy is very good friends with)

- Kory let the gate drop and sit there until the rest of the riders were around the first corner then he took off to play catch-up so Jeremy and Kory's team tossed empty water bottles and beer cans in front of Kory
(no harm meant, or taken)

- If you would info on the new DS450 pm me with your phone number and I will have Jeremy call you and answer all of your questions personally

THANKS

I surmised it was something of that sort.

Like I said before, I don't know Jeremy well, but I know he wouldn't do something like that in a negative manner.

Thanks for clearing it up

brink400

11-05-2007, 03:23 PM

Haha, im glad someone came on here to clear things up. If no explanation was given i could see the whole beer can tossing thing exploding into some huge rumor that jeremy is a dick and tries to hurt other riders...

OutlawBill

11-05-2007, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by khj
- it was an empty beer can (which belonged to Kory's support team)

- the rider was Kory Ellis (which Jeremy is very good friends with)

- Kory let the gate drop and sit there until the rest of the riders were around the first corner then he took off to play catch-up so Jeremy and Kory's team tossed empty water bottles and beer cans in front of Kory
(no harm meant, or taken)

- If you would info on the new DS450 pm me with your phone number and I will have Jeremy call you and answer all of your questions personally

THANKS I have seen Kory due that in an open Pro race befor.