Venom vs. Dasa pipes

[sandmanblue]

This was posted on the .org.
Original Post (http://www.trx450r.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=48046&st=0&gopid=401583&#entry401583)

Each pipe had about 10 runs to optimize jetting. The guys that did the test are not friends of either builder. A truly unbiased test.

Red is DASA

Blue is Venom

[chad502ex]

posted by sandmanblue- I reposted it on another site to give the topic some legs......... I just want to rub this in the face of some ppl that said that Johns pipe was 2 hp shy across the board about two weeks ago. But, as usual, they didn't post any dyno runs to back it up.....

All I gotta say is NEENER, NEENER, NEENER!!!!!


rub what in who's face? imo Just like his first pipe this one doesn't perform either...

your true colors are shinning bright! We've all been well aware of your lies you post on org,.. and how you only post part of the story too!!

---------------------------------------------
HERE's the FACTS!!!!!!

the DASA whips the VENOM up from idle to 6000 rpm and 8500 to rev limit!!! :macho

look at the bottom end performance and top end performance of the DASA over the Venom where the DASA torque crushes the VENOM... this is where the DASA setup will tromp the VENOM, out of the gate and in the over rev too!!!

plus, this is on a recreational build... just imagine how little the VENOM performs on a RACE build where the engine needs to flow...

DASA and Rossier exhausts are the best- period!

[chris46250r]

Didn't know that Venom had a pipe. Is this a new and improved Pulse Charger?

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by chris46250r
Didn't know that Venom had a pipe. Is this a new and improved Pulse Charger?

Nothing like the pulsecharge, looks similar to a regualr pipe, nothing too fancy.

Sandman - thanks for taking the time to post the info...

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by chris46250r
Didn't know that Venom had a pipe. Is this a new and improved Pulse Charger?

ROTFFLMFAO!!! new and improved? LOL!

I'm not trying to make fun of you..

its just that this pipe is no improvement.....

it'll probally end up like his last batch where 500 pipes sitting in a warehouse in legal litigation

I love to return the bashing favor those at sluprville.org extend towards me... only difference is this one is truth...

[chris46250r]

I was being a little sarcastic myself about new and improved. I have actually talked to people that liked the PC powerwise but the fact that it would fall apart before the days riding was over made them get something else.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by chris46250r
I was being a little sarcastic myself about new and improved. I have actually talked to people that liked the PC powerwise but the fact that it would fall apart before the days riding was over made them get something else.

yea, I've read plenty of those stories on the forums..

i'm really referring to its performance here...

[chris46250r]

I'm talking about the original PC. But I see what you are talking about also. That is why dyno graphs are so important. Both have the same max output but things sure are different getting there.

[sandmanblue]

And Chad again drags a thread into the gutter.....


What a surprise!


Hey Mods - are you watching this??????

[chad502ex]

awww ,.... does the truth hurt you? are you sorry for your buddy that you promote sooo much?

dragging down this thread is not the same as slapping you off your high horse about how much you wave your VENOM pom-poms doesn't even remotely coming close to dragging this thread into the gutter...

If the fella whom posted this INCREDIBLE FIND where to post this in his thread, I would have easily THANKED him for taking his time to test, but since it came from you, I see what your real intentions where Chucky Cheese.

Too much bottom end and top end loss in power to consider that a comparable exhaust when your comparing it to a reputable company like DASA...

don't try coming to a website where DASA and Rossier are respected and toot your VENOM horn especially when the product doesn't compare,... then, try to turn it on me as me dragging your horn blowing into the mud...

[sandmanblue]

BTW - Chad...

I was talking about Buck's post on tech, it had nothing to do with you. He posted that John's pipe wasn't all that... yet it does pretty darn well for a quiet pipe.


Maybe you should get to work on your own exhaust pipe and show us all what a great technical guru you are......


I think I was happier when you had me on your "ignore list". Please put me back on it.

[chad502ex]

ignore list,... more like ignorance list your on...

my own exhaust? nope, too much great products for that.... but i will say there is always room for a modification for the ones available... .. nevermind- over your head.

and since we are communicating in this thread, your thread, let me add that you are chicken shiznit posting lies on slurpville about alex's build... again, you only posted half the truth trying to trace over his dyno run with your own.... that run you traced was on a 208 cam, not his 943... if you had traced the truth, you would have seen that it kills both of your builds from bottom to top!

Last, my piston being the most viewed topic where you frequent is humorous to see all you panzies guessing on the performance of my piston... Re-inventing the wheel? I don't think so,.... all the features are from NASCAR and F1.... If you would have researched this you wouldn't be making yourself appear ignorant...

[sandmanblue]

Here, as long as you trolling sites to find things about you, I'll save you the trouble and post my own words right here for all to see....

"Chad hasn't done anything really special. Anyone can copy a porting job from a competent builder, then piece together a motor and make marginal power.

My biggest complaint about him is that he refuses to back up his mouth. People that are afraid to back up their claims - in my life experience - do so because they know they can't do it. So they scream louder and think the guy with the biggest mouth always wins the argument. On the contrary, it's the guy that shows up with facts that wins. The claim maker will always mouth off in shame in order to protect his bruised ego. Usually throwing cheap shots on his way out the door..."


The door's open for ya there Chad - go on and break out the cheap shots.......

[chad502ex]

you see, your thread isn't about the lack of performance of the VENOM exhaust,.... this thread is about your VENOM promotion and you personal vendetta against me....


I re-presented the facts where your misinterpretation of a dyno graph caused your flame-out, and now you twist this into me ruining your promotion! Very typical from a guy out to slander me and my company..

now, as far as my test data backing my claims,... ALL of my customers have that!!!! keep begging!

[speedfreaksguy]

Enough already! How do you two get anything done with all this BS. Real builders would never lower themselves to this level..........

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by speedfreaksguy
Enough already! How do you two get anything done with all this BS. Real builders would never lower themselves to this level..........

what is that suppose to mean? that since I'm an engineer by day and a builder too that I have to sit back and continuously watch his slandering? are you saying that I shouldn't respond since other builders don't? I respond cause I should!


I just hate ppl like him that can't even begin to spit out a formula, yet alone just repeat what others tell him!!!

[reptikes]

Don't know who's right or wrong, but Chad the Pom-Pom comment & picture was a low blow. LOL Keep'em coming!

[honda4life72]

chad i will never get u to do any of my motor work for the way u act on here , as a motor builder u should act a little more mature . yea venom loses a little power than dasa in the bottom , but is a heck of a lot quieter than a dasa , 99 db if i recall right .

[450rJam]

sounds like jerry springer

I think you two have a love/hate relationship

you both love to hate each other, thats the only reason I can think of for you to keep hacking at each other (you both enjoy it)

[250r4life]

not that i would send my motor out to anybody, and not that i am on "Sandman's" side at all... but if i was to send it to somebody, I wouldnt be sending it to Chad... and its not b/c of anything Chucky Cheese has said- I've learned all i need to know about Chad directly from Chad's Mouth (or keyboard)...

[chad502ex]

I don't tolerate ppl bashing me from afar like the idiot sandmanblue does and not say something when given the chance... notice I don't say anything until provoked...

the difference with me and other builders is that for years I've been posting tech talk, even in the face of negative ppl, just beating me up for no reason other than to make them feel better, I keep posting in hopes that the tech talk can expand further and we can all benefit from it..... but,..... now I understand why other builders dont dare to post cause when they do you have ppl pushing back on us like they have experience or something...

recall how many builders want to post on forums or ask them why they dont and I bet you see why....


we'll see how much Chucky Cheese boy can tech talk everyone then, won't we? ...

[Sjorge450R]

why do you guys refuse to send stuff to chad.

what he says on here only makes me want to send my stuff to him more than any one else. He always has the answers to the questions and he always has the proof to back it. He will defiantly be doing my head once i crack open the motor this winter.

[pro-rider46]

Originally posted by Sjorge300EX
why do you guys refuse to send stuff to chad.

From what he says on here only makes me want to send my stuff to him more than any one. He always has the answers to the questions and he always has the proof to back it. He will defiently be doing my head once i crack open the motor this winter.

yeah i agree, i will hopefully be sending mine as soon as i can, i was supposed to call him, but i am a little short on cash...dang

[chad502ex]

pro-rider and sjorge thank you both. I really do enjoy helping ppl out which is why I'm here...

[pro-rider46]

Originally posted by chad502ex
pro-rider and sjorge thank you both. I really do enjoy helping ppl out which is why I'm here...

yeah sorry chad i didnt call you, but as soon i am going to get some cash, you should be seeing, it.

and your welcome. i always thought you know your stuff and i am glad your here to help.

[250r4life]

its interesting... i've never seen a single negative thing written about C-Leigh, and all the 2 stroke guys promote him on here...

and i've seen people write good things about others and have never seen him write a negative thing about another builder...

now how is it that he has remained so unspotted?

you dont back up your posts cuz you say your work speaks for itself and all your customers get this and that... well let your work do the talking- it will build a lot better reputation then you fighting back and forth with sandman...

[450R_lover]

Chad, you know your stuff. Just let the talkers talk, and you walk your walk. Let your knowledge and work speak for itself.

[Flyin-Low]

This whole thing just dates back to the age old argument.. "Who's is bigger??"

Come on guys, give it a rest..

[GIXXER1KR]

Threads like this hurt them both.It makes people like me(not sure who to send my work to) feel safer taking a chance with someone who doesnt bother with this chit!!!!!!!!!!:devil: As soon as i think i made a decision another curve ball.But i notice Chad stays here and Venom stays there!!!HHHMMMM!!!!:confused:

[GIXXER1KR]

Ohhh and by the way!!!!!!!!!My dad is stronger than yours!:blah: Sorry i had too!oh and anyone still undecided check out 1DIRRACING...He did my 2 stroke motor with step by step pics and updates and for the $575 i spent it screams!And best customer service i ever had.It all started with a set of reeds.And when i need more i remembered how good he was to me and i only spent $80
http://www.1dirracing.com/gallery/index.php?cat=10018

[honda4life72]

i will give chad one thing , he has the coolest logo for atv racing :macho

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by 450R_lover
Chad, you know your stuff. Just let the talkers talk, and you walk your walk. Let your knowledge and work speak for itself.

Thank you for your good comments. I will try and do my best to help the good ppl here as much as possible..

Let me know if I can help you in any way.


-peace.

[IMSROLL450R]

Its obvious that both of these guys are passionate about what they do and I dont think I would have a problem sending my motor to either one of them. I do agree with the post about argueing on the internet though, it really doesnt prove anything and is retarded.

[sandmanblue]

Chad -

It's nice to see that you admitted to not being a full time professional builder, but rather a backyard hobbiest that does all his work from your little garage work area but actually makes a living at a "day" job....

A true professional builder is somebody that is GOOD enough at what they do that they can make a living doing it. That is not you.


I wonder, since you are supposed to be working at your "day job", how much time you spend posting on the net rather than working..... You seem to do a lot of it during the day..... But that's for your boss to deal with. It certainly doesn't sound very professional... Kind of sneaky, actually.... I wonder if he knows???? Naw, you'd get our arse fired for that...


So tell us all, Mr. Engine Guru, do you still claim to be a professional engine builder or are you really just some bozo that regurgitates "formulas" so that people will think you know what you are talking about?


Which is it? A backyard wannabee and full time engineer, or a full time professional builder that people here should trust to send their hard earned money to?



I think that the people in these forums have every right to know what DRG/Chad really is. You've talked all sorts of smack for many years across several forums as if you were a pro builder, and you are trying to build a business on this site by offering your products and services to forum members while not being a site sponsor - (isn't that against forum rules?). and now we all find out that you don't really do this full time.


I can't imagine ANYONE foolish enough to trust some dude on the net that makes his claim to fame by posting more than other people.


I had you pegged from the start. A 20 something wannabee builder that spends more time with his nose in books and on the net, than actually making a living building and designing products for the atv industry. Since you can't measure up to the other professional builders and business owners, all you got it to try to tear them down.....


You're pathetic.....


I am done with you - as I see many other ppl here are done with you too....


Thanks for ruining yet another thread and for exposing yourself as a fraud.

[honda4life72]

sandmanblue , just drop it ok? first i was on your side but now i'm on no side , u seem to be after him , and chad seems to be after you . chad can u pm me a price on doing head porting? also on a good piston , i'm goin to be rebuilding this winter so i need to gohead and get what i need now

[chad502ex]

sandman, you really are an idiot? are you retarded? you suppose to be an adult and can't just walk away? your dumb enough to keep coming back for more? yes you are an idiot......


I am 37, an engineer, and a fully legit legal business owner... more that you can say,... I have a machinist whom does work for NASCAR, a digital flowbench, engine modeling design software, access to a dyno anytime i need, an education, years designing strokers, turbos, fuel injection, pistons, camshafts, ignition systems, and all the tools necessary for my Pro riders monster builds.... who are you? your a nobody who is only good at eating... get lost you loser!...go run your fat cheese breath mouth across the internet somewhere that is interested in reading your slander... it would be different if you could offer us peeps something technical, but you never ever ever ever done that..... Instead, you beg others for it.... From what i've seen from your picture, your a tub-arse in person and your man-boobs is something seriously funny to laugh at... Is that your problem? you've been beaten down your entire life being a cheese head so you have to think you have an understanding of me? your a joke!

your feeble attempt to discredit me confirms your stupidity.... that is not alex's latest dyno,... your feebleminded attempt to trace was based on cam testing... your fake tracing attempt over a 208 cam that is not his biggest power producer.. it was a smaller 943/921 cam you idiot,.... very typical of you to only post half the story again just to start more trouble... now, your beating down all the ppl that are 110% happy with their builds.... kinda F'd up for you to beat up other ppls builds just to try to spite me... you will be going to h3ll for sure.... :devil: :devil: :devil:

let me extend you one chance for you to demonstrate your competence... for you to prove your engine smart... to see why we were able to make more power with a smaller cam,... let's hear your guess cheese boy...... the only thing changed here was the cam...... tell us why in your vast engine prowess why this engine delivered more power with a smaller camshaft? we are waiting for your answer

[250r4life]

I’m a little incredulous about both of you… for several reasons… one, I can’t believe that you guys get so worked up over all this internet forum stuff- especially at your age… I’m not one of the teenagers on this site and I still enjoy a good argument and messing with people’s heads, but I don’t take any of it seriously… and I wouldn’t say that I dislike anybody… Would I enjoy meeting people at the hill and shutting them up, sure…

Sandman… I’ve noted on frequent occasions you’ve called for the mods in your arguments with Chad… you’re a big boy- take care of yourself! You dish out plenty of stuff, be prepared to take it…

My good buddy from High School and I both got full ride academic scholarships to ASU… my buddy is a very intelligent person… While I slept through the Accounting program (which is highly ranked), he busted his butt in Engineering… So, if you’re an actual engineer you must be somewhat intelligent, which is why it is surprising that you’re spelling and grammar are as bad as they are…

However, Chuck’s whole “if you were good you would be a mechanic full time” logic isn’t worth a whole lot… I don’t know if it is accurate with you… I really don’t… But I know a lot of people that do do it full time that are complete idiots… In fact, my approach to working on my bikes, doing things I’ve never done before, is in talking with any of these mechanics at the local bike shops- it doesn’t take long to realize they’re not too bright… I know I’m considerably more intelligent than they are, so if they can do it, I’m sure I will be able to figure it out… a lot of people are mechanics for that very reason- theyre not too bright...



I also find it interesting that Chucks whole argument is for somebody else… Chuck, can you out build Chad? Alright then? Furthermore… I don’t care how much HP your bike makes on the dyno- all that matters is can YOU beat ME (or whoever) up the hill? Now you’ll bring up the 250lbs thing- that’s irrelevant… its just an excuse… if you cant win- then shut up… plain and simple… and I still hope that one day I can race you at Glamis!

[250r4life]

Originally posted by sandmanblue


I had you pegged from the start. A 20 something wannabee builder that spends more time with his nose in books and on the net, than actually making a living building and designing products for the atv industry. Since you can't measure up to the other professional builders and business owners, all you got it to try to tear them down.....



if i recall correctly- a lot of your beef started because you claim that he gave you bad advice on some things when you were building your 477... so, if you had him pegged from the start and know so much yourself, then why the heck would you listen to him?

best case for you sounds like this is the blind leading the blind...

[MR.BIG]

I don't like to get involved in these wars but I have a DRG motor and it runs awesome. Just because someone has a day job doesn't mean he isn't a competent builder. Chad is very thorough and takes his time to make sure everything is perfect. Do you think when you send your head out somewhere to get ported they are going to spend 4 or more hrs to get your head to flow correctly I think NOT! I will have no problem running anyone on here with a 450 bore to see what you can do. First one to the top of the hill wins, that is if you can make it up the big hills at trevorton.:D

P.S. So sandmanblue are you calling me foolish for spending my money on Chads build? I don't give a crap about dyno's I want real life power on the trail and hillclimbs which I have so don't run your mouth about something you have never used just because you don't like someone. :blah:

[allstock]

chads motor in my bike is pulling harder than any other bike i've ever ridden (sparks 450r dasa yfz tc 450 and yfz)

[allstock]

oh yea and theres all this argueing and no pic of this new pipe?? lol

[chad502ex]

Thank you allstock and Mr.BIG. I'm real pleased that you are completely thrilled with your machine... I try my best on every engine I build. If you both need anything from me, you have my number.... my engraved signature on your cylinder heads is your reminder that I'm always willing to do whatever it takes to make your build as best as I can, even if it takes me all week on the flowbench to tweak flow perfect (an examble Mr.Big made), I will... I believe in quality before quantity. Having met me in person, I'm sure you know this is true.


250r4life, you last post about builders full time is well said! I went to college and studied long and hard in electrical engineering... Right now my builder business keeps me busy during every spare moment beyond my 40hr day job with building for Pro racers, Class A/B/C racers, Rec riders, R&D, design, website, forum presence and testing. My passion is leaning towards engine R&D, but my bills says engineering right now. My goal isn't to spit engines out my business door left and right, but to deliver reliable high power output craftmanship the first time with a name that ppl will begin to fear on the track,... Even if I went full time building, it just wont bank more than my engineering job.. Is that stupid? my bills says no.... until my business pays for my own 5 axis cnc, I'll continue with my engineering and do my best for every build i do...

and for everyone in this thread, except Sideshow Cheese-head, i apologize for my rantings...

[GIXXER1KR]

ADVICE too CHAD!!!!!!!!!:) Chad you seem to be very well educated.You dont even need to argue in these forums.Be the better man and when you see someone bagging on you just ignore it:devil: Too be honest i go on all the 450 sites and other than this foolish **** i have never heard anything bad from anyone that has had work done by either of you.I wish i had the cash and 2 heads(LOL) so i could send 1 to both of you and see the difference!!!HHMMM maybe a really good discount;)

[400exrider707]

:rolleyes:


Since this one has gone on for so long, I say run it out til someone gets banned... please spare us all of this nonsense... There is too much of this arguing now and not enough technical data from either side.

Chad I used to follow your posts just to read up and learn something, now I find myself sifting through this bull crap between you and chucky all the time. Seriously I know you guys can post some good data, just do that and shut up.

Sandman, you can praise Venom all you want on the Org, dont be so upset its not as widely accepted over here, no hard feelings.

Chad, just let it go, your work will speak for itself.

Both of you need to either chill or ride this one out until someone gets banned.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by GIXXER1KR
I wish i had the cash and 2 heads(LOL) so i could send 1 to both of you and see the difference!!!HHMMM maybe a really good discount;)


thanks for your advice. I'll try to take it next time...

[Bad Habit]

Originally posted by chad502ex
i'm really referring to its performance here...
http://www.exriders.com/vbb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2983525
Looks like tire slip to me, possibly even clutch issue, as the throttle is cracked and the torque rolls in. I could be totally wrong, but I don't think I'd point to the lower end of this graph to use as any kind of statement.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Bad Habit
Looks like tire slip to me, possibly even clutch issue, as the throttle is cracked and the torque rolls in. I could be totally wrong, but I don't think I'd point to the lower end of this graph to use as any kind of statement.

hello Dan.. Long time,... where you been hiding?

tire slip, naaaaa nope...I dont think so... both you and I know what happens to tire slip on the dyno.... clutch slip no...... and since both runs were performed back to back both runs would 'normalize' any 'tire-slip'... ever post rpm over speed to validate linear slope?

good to see ya round again dan.... see'n ya made me smile reminiscing LOL...

[Bad Habit]

Originally posted by chad502ex
both you and I know what happens to tire slip on the dyno
Yes. It shows up as a "spike". The sudden application of torque makes the graph start to come up, but the tires break loose due to how quickly the torque is being applied to the drum, resulting in a drop on the graph until the tires regain grip and the graph starts to go back up. Very similar to what the lower portion of these graphs looks like.

Originally posted by chad502ex
and since both runs were performed back to back both runs would 'normalize' any 'tire-slip'
Not sure how doing runs back to back will "normalize" the tires. If by "normalize" you mean a quad that has improper pressure applied to the drum.

Originally posted by chad502ex
clutch slip no
Didn't say slip, said issue. Clutch slip would show itself on the graph as the torque curve climbing then suddenly level off and stays absolutely flat for a good part of the range. A slipping clutch will only hold a finite amount of torque, the graph will not climb any higher and only start to drop off after the motor starts dropping off torque production below this amount.

Originally posted by chad502ex
ever post rpm over speed to validate linear slope?

Yes. Tire slip, clutch slip or another clutch issue becomes very apparent.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Bad Habit

Yes. Tire slip, clutch slip or another clutch issue becomes very apparent.


Yup, this is why i do not agree that this is the case as rippling or spikes are not evident on the dyno runs. tire slippage would be exemplified as ripples and spikes in the graph, even with smooth level 5 enabled.... and clutch 'issues' usually occurs near peak torque or where the clutch assembly has difficulty transfering the power...

I'll post a graph illustrating a dyno clutch slip....

To normalize is to remove the variable from the test results..... meaning if you have all your dyno runs with the airbox lid removed, you can say the airbox lid becomes normalized out of the test results and only the changes made become the variables concerned. Kinda the same thing here.... Both runs have identical mid-rpm curves, so if there were any 'issues' both boths were to have it given that both runs were performed back-to-back with the quad strapped down once..

So, how ya been? why did you drop your mod status on the org? just wondering..

[whiteboycustom]

im glad people are doing some side by side test of the "new" venom pipe, how about some side by side with rossier and some other full exhaust systems???

and another thing why does the venom can look so much like other cans???

and please no bashing!!!!! just simple questions

[Elduner]

Originally posted by whiteboycustom
im glad people are doing some side by side test of the "new" venom pipe, how about some side by side with rossier and some other full exhaust systems???

and another thing why does the venom can look so much like other cans???

and please no bashing!!!!! just simple questions

That cause its a re badged pipe...

I'm actually surprised the pipe did what it did... I didn't think it would do EVEN that.

Nothing like hearing a NHRA Dragster that is quiet.... lol


Venom is not the pipe for me.... Dan has my FULL respect with my build. Plus i like the fact that his pipes are built in house and not just on a production line. Hell his pipe just has a sticker that says DASA vs a cute flimsy looking logo that has two rivets.which im sure with time will start to rattle... wonder how much that cute logo is costing peeps? lol

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/elduner/IMG_0052.jpg

[chad502ex]

bump.... I'm still waiting on Chucky Cheese to provide his technical answer to my questioning as to his thoughts of how its possible that Alex's build with a smaller cam can develop more power than a previously tested monster cam...
---------------



Now maybe others can help me out.... what the h3ll is Cheese head trying to say below with his peep gibberish on slurpville.org?...


The peak hp is basically the possible top speed. Top speed is a simple calculation of a steady state condition


Gearing affects rear wheel torque and acceleration, but it affects top speed very little.....

OMFG!!! clueless- he is... nice guessing

here's the Cheese heads idol return reply...


and i'll never admit it in a public forum.... but sometimes i print 'em out and put them in my big notebook.... which i will also deny having....lol....


ah,,, i get it now,... this must be what he's done since the beginning.....

seems like I've seen this before when he recently copied my SSAR exhaust porting technique (I have picture proof), then more recently slapped his logo on a CHM pipe and claimed as his design... LOL!!!!


someone asked to see his pipe >>> http://www.chmexhaust.com/

just pop-rivot the Venom logo overtop the CHM canister logo and you got it...

[chad502ex]

,....and some say that its just me being hard on Cheese boy,....

well, there is always another side worth mentioning, isn't there?

here's another Professional point of view made public from Michelle at Rage posted on tech.net...


by Michelle at Rage...
removed by request.....

[KingRage12]

Chad, I did not post this info on Atvriders for a reason. We are not sponsors here and do not want to be in the middle of
a flamefest. We are a sponsor on the website you took my quote from. I did not intend to start a war I was just stating the facts
as I know them. Please we do not want to be involved in
a war with anyone here. If someone has something they want
to know I will do my best to help out.

Thanks

Michele
Rage Atv racing

[D Bergstrom]

Originally posted by chad502ex
then more recently slapped his logo on a CHM pipe and claimed as his design... LOL!!!!


someone asked to see his pipe >>> http://www.chmexhaust.com/

just pop-rivot the Venom logo overtop the CHM canister logo and you got it...

Yes, Venom pipes are made by CHM, but the pipes are NOT the same. They are Venoms design manufactured by CHM. The canisters are probably the same, but the header back to the canister is totally different, along with the core size in the canister. CHM's website has pics, look for your self and compare the two. CHM exhaust's do not seem to be to popular with the ATV crowd, but I see alot on bikes and a few on the street. I would say they are a high quality exhaust.

As far as sound, I had Yosh TRC before the Venom, and still have a Yosh TRC on my other 450R. The Venom is noticebly quieter. I rode with someone who had a Dasa when I was still running my Yosh. He was riding behind me and I could hear his quad over mine. I considered buying a Dasa, as I do believe it is the best performing exhaust for a 450R, but it is just way to loud for me, so I picked the Venom, and I am perfectly happy with it. I would gladly give up slight amount of power and not have a headache everytime I get done riding. (Or have to wear earplugs everytime I ride.)

Also sound testing is probably one of the most inacurate tests ever created. The test is so dependent on so many factors it is not even funny. I know guys who ride bikes and have got tested and failed, go back to the trailer, remove the desert skid plate, been retested, and have passed. They did nothing to there exhaust.

Doug

[chad502ex]

I understand your position and was not trying to pull you into a flamefest.

Since you publically posted this information as fact, I did not see any problem with quoting your words... I sense that you would prefer me removing your words; so I will do just that...

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by D Bergstrom
Yes, Venom pipes are made by CHM, but the pipes are NOT the same. They are Venoms design manufactured by CHM. The canisters are probably the same, but the header back to the canister is totally different, along with the core size in the canister. CHM's website has pics, look for your self and compare the two. CHM exhaust's do not seem to be to popular with the ATV crowd, but I see alot on bikes and a few on the street. I would say they are a high quality exhaust.

As far as sound, I had Yosh TRC before the Venom, and still have a Yosh TRC on my other 450R. The Venom is noticebly quieter. I rode with someone who had a Dasa when I was still running my Yosh. He was riding behind me and I could hear his quad over mine. I considered buying a Dasa, as I do believe it is the best performing exhaust for a 450R, but it is just way to loud for me, so I picked the Venom, and I am perfectly happy with it. I would gladly give up slight amount of power and not have a headache everytime I get done riding. (Or have to wear earplugs everytime I ride.)

Also sound testing is probably one of the most inacurate tests ever created. The test is so dependent on so many factors it is not even funny. I know guys who ride bikes and have got tested and failed, go back to the trailer, remove the desert skid plate, been retested, and have passed. They did nothing to there exhaust.

Doug

very good posts. thanks for your input.

[KingRage12]

Are you guys comparing, comprable pipes, the venom quiet to the Dasa quiet or was the Dasa the original can or classic?

Dasa has three different pipes and when people state that
they have Dasa they do not include what pipe they have.
I think it would be fair to compare apples to apples instead of a
banana to an orange.

I have been to a few races where there have been many pipes
and the Venom was not quieter on the track it seems to be a
deeper sound but not quieter. That is my opinion only.

Thanks Michele

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by KingRage12
Are you guys comparing, comprable pipes, the venom quiet to the Dasa quiet or was the Dasa the original can or classic?

Dasa has three different pipes and when people state that
they have Dasa they do not include what pipe they have.
I think it would be fair to compare apples to apples instead of a
banana to an orange.

I have been to a few races where there have been many pipes
and the Venom was not quieter on the track it seems to be a
deeper sound but not quieter. That is my opinion only.

Thanks Michele

pm returned

[Elduner]

Originally posted by KingRage12
Are you guys comparing, comprable pipes, the venom quiet to the Dasa quiet or was the Dasa the original can or classic?

Dasa has three different pipes and when people state that
they have Dasa they do not include what pipe they have.
I think it would be fair to compare apples to apples instead of a
banana to an orange.

I have been to a few races where there have been many pipes
and the Venom was not quieter on the track it seems to be a
deeper sound but not quieter. That is my opinion only.

Thanks Michele

Michele very nice point you make.....

It would be interesting to see what a NEW DASA 99db vs Venom claimed 96db would do.

[Bad Habit]

It was stated by the person doing this test it was a short can DASA, and both pipes were brand new taken out of the box for the comparison. The argument is valid that sound levels with the short DASA is not a fair comparison. But is it safe to assume that the short DASA is the highest power producer of the three (classic, original, quiet)? I am assuming the short can is the original?

Chad, if you don't see a torque spike on that graph, I guess we have a different idea of what a spike is. I just stated what my observation is based on the limited information of looking at one graph. Nothing more for me to add about it.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Bad Habit
Chad, if you don't see a torque spike on that graph, I guess we have a different idea of what a spike is. I just stated what my observation is based on the limited information of looking at one graph. Nothing more for me to add about it.

no worries Dan... it doesn't matter...:cool:

[450rJam]

king rage 12, dont take this the wrong way but with all the pissing matches I dont think any of you guys can give an unbias observation of your competitors pipes
I would assume the same if the venom guy was claiming anything about rage/dasa pipes

with the growing atv market, word of mouth is huge
(Im not sure why you guys would continue to hack on eash other)

never thought there would be sooo much politics in performance

chad502ex, you just apologized then opened up a new can of lighter fluid ???

just my opinion but I think you guys are all capable of building some sweet power but you let your competitive nature bleed into negative interaction that everyone can see.

my mom says if you cant say nothing nice..............
dont say nothing at all

[KingRage12]

450rjam....You are correct and we all get carried away. I did
not say anything negative about the pipe, just making sure
that everyone was comparing apples to apples.

I gave my opinion and I am entitled to that, not trying
to discredit the Venom pipe at all.

To be perfectly honest I really don't care who's pipe
does what, our pipe is for OUR combination so really
to each his own.

My opinion was brought into this thread against my
approval, I had no intention to reply. But please
understand I did not want to contribute anything
negative to this thread.

Thanks

Michele

[250r4life]

where did ol' sandman run off to?

[250r4life]

i wonder if this means meeting up for a race at glamis is out of the question... :huh :(

[Jersey450R]

Originally posted by 250r4life
where did ol' sandman run off to?

i was wondering the same thing for a while now... :confused:

[hendershot106]

Originally posted by 250r4life
i wonder if this means meeting up for a race at glamis is out of the question... :huh :(

uhhhh-maaaybe he went to practice???????? lol

[250r4life]

Originally posted by hendershot106
uhhhh-maaaybe he went to practice???????? lol

doubt it...

im sure his bike is faster than mine, but with his weight disadvantage and what i think will be my rider advantage, i sure would love to race him...