Suspension Help!!!!!!!!!

[Fenix169motox]

Hey everyone, its me again, i barely ever get on here cuz usually when i get info from you guys it really helps, i was just reading the info that 400exrider707 put on here and i feel smarter but in the same stride, a lot lot dumber..


with that said, im looking into buying aftermarket shocks and a arms and have practically no idea what im looking for and nee YOUR help :-p .. lemme tell ya'll what i ride and where



Okay, i ride a 400ex, i have a houser 1.25" extended swinger, +4axle so the rear is covered, except the shock, but anyways i mainly race mx and we got some big jumps and to this day im reluctent to hit them b/c the shocks that come on a 400ex arent worth juping with, AT ALL!! furthermore, i'm running stock a arms with my yfz shocks and if i try n rail a turn the rear end comes off the ground, i've ridden quads with widened front ends and i've noticed good and bad, and im guessing its all in the set up.. again this is why im asking you guys. im on a budget so i cant relly break the bank and get the top of the line stuff, i'm just a weekend warrior wanting a better ride when i ride hard. if you want/need motor stuff lemme know.


thanks guys

[Scro]

I would suggest having your rear shock revalved and resprung, along with a quality link. For the front, look into getting a set of 450r shocks serviced by somebody like C&D Racing. These shocks coupled with a set of regular travel arms is an excellent alternative to an expensive aftermarket setup. I've only heard good reviews about serviced stock shocks, and for half the price at that.

you said your axle is +4 so I would think about maybe some wider a-arms to kind of even that out. Suspension wise yeah i hear revalves are pretty good. I thought about getting my rear revalved and resprung but was second guessing that they are all that. Fronts wise yeah 450r shocks are nice revalved and you can get them for around $200 or $250. My choice on suspenion over stock is Works. Maybe not the best of the aftermaret industry but deffinately an amazing night and day difference over stock.

[Fenix169motox]

ok, i have 05 yfz450 shocks on there right now, so re-valving them would help?? never heard of that b4, but sounds interesting, and just re-doing the rear stock shock/spring will help too? i just thought getting aftermarket - a bi-rate would be my best bet. and what does anyone know about tcs or pep and stuff. i'd like to get something that i could start takin some big jumps and not being worried about killing myself if i case it or land on the face of it.. thats really my main concern, im convinced i'd start taking more and more stuff if i could be sure i dont like die from messin it up, yeah i know its part of learning but if i can avoid it i'd like to

oh and yeah, i want the +2 arms at least jsut so it rides even. its like riding a 3 wheeler right now.. lol

and what did you mean by resprung? put a new spring on the re-valved shock? or do you think a bi-rate spring would work on the stocker?

To have what your saying as taking bigger jumps and harder landing i deffinately say go with aftermarket. Any aftermarket is way better than stock. But the stock shocks resprung would mean they put on dual rate or a heavier duty spring. For your suspension your fronts you want probally triple rate and the rear i say dual. The rate of springs just slows compression or makes the impact lessen.

[250rmike]

you have a couple of different things that you can do on a budget. first the cheapest would be to get your +2 a-arms. but you have also got to take into effect the wheel offset. are you useing stock wheels? or aftermarket. back on topic after you get your a-arms(or order them) send you shocks(all 3 of them) to a good rebuild company or shock company i have never used c&d the site sponser but hear of nothing but good things from them.
you will want to get your shocks set up for your riding weight and style also tell them about the longer swingarm and a-arms so they can valve them accordingly. you can get dual rate rear and should be able to get dual rate front.
now i dont know how the revalving would go with yfz450 shock on a 400ex because the angle and valving will be different somthing you would have to discuss with whomever you use. thats the basic and cheapest way to go. after that you can go with aftermarket shocks. some say they are the same as revalved some say better. ive never ridden revalved execpt in the rear and i was pleased. but for what your doing a simple revalve with work wonders and should be more than what you will need if your just a weekend warrior and not a full time racer

[Fenix169motox]

ok cool, how much would i be looking at for a re-valve, and with that would i be getting new springs on the stock shock? like i said i've never heard of that b4, yeah i know i live under a rock. lol but anyways about my yfz shocks, they're mounted exactly how the stock 400 ones were they;re just a little shorter and i loose ride hieght, so thats why i was wanting aftermarket ones, or should i buy 450r ones and re-valve em and whatnot.. i dunno what'd be the best bang for the buck.. but the i used same bolt hole location and same a arm mount. oh wich reminds me, any particular brand anyone suggest getting? Jd performance, burguard, houser, or whatever else,

and yaeh i have 2:3 hi-per rims, i didnt origionally buy em so i dont really know for sure, i'd say they're nothing special order tho.. i got em like super cheap so i had to get em

and 250rmike, what suspension company should i be looking at, even for buyying an aftermarket set up, i'd like to get at least bi-rates for smooth riding..? when i do ride, i ride B class but i dont get to ride all the time. so i consider myself a weekend warrior..

[250rmike]

depending on how you b class is you can get away with stock rebuilds(revalve) but i would start looking into some aftermarkets. thats depending on how competitive it is and how far you would want to take it.
as for aftermarket suspension there a bunch of different company now. works has some good cheap shocks elka would be prolly my top pick for affordale shocks. then theres pep axis and fox. there is also ohlins although there expensive and not many people use them.
as for getting the stock shocks revalved talk to c&d our site sponsor. just make a post in there section and they should get back to you rather fast.
what i meant about not knowing how the 450 shocks were valved is that the yfz has different suspension geometry so the valving and spring rates will be different. also you sad it lowered your bike some so the stroke length is different. im not a proffesional when it comes to valving shocks your best bet would be to talk to c&d

[Fenix169motox]

yeah, the b class guys i ride with are pretty quick, i know im prolly not gunna be pro or anything later but i still want to have a nice ridin quad, somethin i can hop on and woop some tail when i ride it, but not have a lot of $ dumped in it, im in collage now so money is tight... but yeah i see what you mean with the yfz shocks, and lowered em. i dont really like that its lower and they're yamaha's but they were better than stock.. but yeah, any suggestions on a arms?

[250rmike]

really all the big name a-arms are the same lonestar leager houser i beleive housers are the cheapest and have good build quality. i have heard bad things about burgards customer service but i have also heard that they have good products. i use houser but in long travel. with riding mx the lower ride height can be good or bad depending on how low it is. when you get new shocks or get your shocks revalved read some of the threads on this site and learn how to set them up that the main thing about suspension you have to play with it to get it to feel good

Yeah Works shocks ver stock are absolutly amazing! It seriously feels like your floating over the whoops and jumps wise it gets full extension and compression but doesnt bottom out. I am going with a single rate works remote rezzie for my rear and triple rate remote rezzie for the fronts. And all of that would only cost me $1200 max. For the serious racer pep, ohlins, axis, tcs are all expensive but best. Elka makes a good product but from the factory they are still a little stiff.

[250rmike]

have you rode on elkas that are set up by you for your riding style. cause i had elkas on my previous bike that were valved heavy and after adjusting them alittle they were not stiff they were accually very plush and soaked up bumps well

yeah a little adjusting on any of them makes a difference

[Fenix169motox]

yeah thanks guys, but what do any of ya'll think on the ishock or stuff like that? im lookin for bang for the buck and i know there's a TON of stuff out there.. im looking on ebay and stuff for a arms for cheap. but for shocks everyone wants a pretty penny, and then they'd have to be set up for my weight n style.. but yeah..

[250rmike]

go to someplace that carries elka's and get the non resi triple rates. best low cost bang for the buck shock. then get a set of used a-arms just make sure that the bushings and balljoints arnt worn out i have no experience with the ishock kit though

[400exrider707]

Glad you read the sticky first before asking questions. Also if you have any further questions about anything in there, feel free to ask away.

Anyways - For a budget racer (we've all been there at one time or another, and some of us are still there) I would definitely go the rebuild route. The rear shock on that will work like a charm with a good rebuild/revalve. Call C&D they will do a good job with it.

When I started racing my 400ex, I bought a set of elka rec series shocks for the front. They were OK, much better than stock for sure, but didn't seem to soak up any of the small stuff. I never realized this until I rode on something better. On the rear end of my 400 I had a stocker rebuilt by elka. It rode like garbage, but I did buy it used so I have no idea what it was actually set up for. I sent it to C&D and when I got it back, it worked like a charm.

On my 450, I can actually finally afford (barely) nearly any aftermarket setup I want. Guess what I use.... Rebuilds. I've ridden on quite a few different setups now and so far have been most impressed at the ride of these rebuilds. I've rode other setups that compare, but then when you look at price... rebuilds blow them out of the water. I also still prefer standard travel front and rear, because I dont think my abilities require that of long travel. By abilities I mean both my riding abilities and my shock tuning abilities. Standard travel works great for me.

Also when it comes to a-arms, this is not an area to cheap out on. I'm not saying you have to go out and buy top of the line, but dont buy the cheap knock off stuff you commonly see on ebay. I would also stay away from the lower end burgards. The balljoints break very commonly and they are very unsafe. I would honestly look for a good set of used arms on here, they are not that hard to find. I've seen +2 arms for 450Rs go for $250 shipped. The deals are there, just spend some time and shop around.

I suggest what others have suggested. 450R fronts and your stocker rear, send them to C&D racing. Sell the YFZ shocks and you could probably almost pay for a set of 450R fronts. C&D rebuilds will make you wonder why you waited so long to do this... Good luck.:cool:

[Fenix169motox]

hey everyone i got one last question, i probably shoulda looked first b4 asking but i dont have much time, i have a set of 450r shocks i can get for uber cheap, and i can get the rear too for 50 more.. would that bolt onto the 400ex linkage and stuff? the one on my quad now is a factory one from '00 so its in need of some work.. but yeah. thanks guys!

i don't think the 450r rear will fit on the 400ex, but i may be wrong.

you say your stock rear needs some work...the work you are talking about will be what is done during the revalve...essentially, a revalve/respring is a total rebuild of the shocks, but it changes the internal valving(changes how much and when the fluids flow from the resi to the internals, as simple way to explain it)...it works with your specific conditions and abilities.

i have revalves on my 450r and the rear of the 400ex. makes a heck of a difference...and i would say that the revalves on the 450r are better than the elka rec series on my 400ex.

derisi racing did my front revalves for $440 and the rear on both was done by gt thunder(which uses a diferent linkage) the cost for the rear was 265 or so with the linkage...

i hear c&d racing gets the same effect on the rear without the linkage so that may save some $$$ too

[Fenix169motox]

ok cool man. i'll take em home this weekend and see about throwin the rear on.. and i kinda understand whats going on cuz im actually in suspension class at this collage i'm going to, its just basic stuff thus far but still..

so i'd be looking at what $500 to rebuild the rear and fronts? more :( lol

now i jsut need to get me a set of a arms. . .

actually, you are looking at around 700 or so for all 3....but considering you would pay more than that for just the fronts and about that for a rear......

[Fenix169motox]

verry true.. man im really gunna have to take out another collage loan to get my shock set up lol. 700 plus a arms.. guess it'll wait till next year.. again..

wait thenwouldnt i be better off getting this funky deal package from like jd performance? i dunno who for sure,, but they get ya +2 a arms, and elka fronts for $1100.. i do know gullible is in the dictionary but still

i think with the elka fronts in that pkg, you will lose some adjustability...and i see that you are running a longer swing arm also...you may not be able to use your rear shock with that length of swingarm...

i still think your best bet is the revalve...are you in a position that you have to use that axle? if it weren't so wide, you wouldn't need new a-arms

[Fenix169motox]

so i'd have more adjustability with stock 450r stuffs? and yeah definitly need the width.. im stock width up front and with the 12.5 comp + stage 2 hotcam the motor has more than the turns can handle, every time i fly through a turn it high sides, i could be on the nerf bar and it'll still high side.. and the only thing im noticing from my rear shock is that everything i hit is waaaay softer in the rear, but since the pivot point is longer i need a better set up than i have.. i've been puttin it off cuz of $ and i wanted to know what i really need before i try and go out to buy a crazzy amount of parts that i dont really need. im not a pro or anything but i still want some suspension and a arms that i can go ride with em.. like i said up above. most of the guys i ride with race B class and the only place they really womp on me is turns, i've gotta slow way down in order to take em.. granted too it is a 400ex lol but its good enough for me :)

but yeah thanks for the imput too

i am not 100% sure on adjustability since i don't know the exact kit you are talking about... suspension work will aid with the turning by lowering the ride height, but from your last post, i would say most of your probs with tipping is rider, and unbalanced/ improper suspension set up

suspension work will aid with the turning by lowering the ride height, but from your last post, i would say most of your probs with tipping is rider, and unbalanced/ improper suspension set up

[Fenix169motox]

Originally posted by speedyquad
suspension work will aid with the turning by lowering the ride height, but from your last post, i would say most of your probs with tipping is rider, and unbalanced/ improper suspension set up

add to that.. i had the yfz shocks on there and they lowerd it like at least 2 inches.. and it still sucked, it needs tobe wider,, suspension helps with jumps, but if you have short short a arms they wont be as Effective.. right? i've had a few years bar time on my quad so i'd say i know what im doing in turns.... anyways i wanted tell ya'll i got the 450r front shocks, :) (which raised up the front a BUNCH)the rear was waaaaay to short so now i have a 450r rear shock for sale, its stock from 05. and brand new.. um but yeah, C&D estimated about $700 for the re-build stuff.. kidna runnin low on $ so i cant do it.. im gunna take em to my suspension instructor one of these days so i can get em set up pretty good for what i do.. as for the rear ... kinda lost, ( the pre-load adjuster nuts are frozen.. i cant budge them,, yet) as for teh rear i gotta wait for $ . thanks for your help ppls!

[Fenix169motox]

Hey guys i was riding my quad this weekend with the 450r shocks on it and it woulde go straight just fine, but if ii'd turn at all it'd feel tight, but i could stop and turn the bars and they're smooth as can be.. or am i just not used to how high it is and camber/caster is fighting me.. ? im lost, im about to get longer a arms so im kinda really hoping it'll go away and i dont have more problems, think it could be my tie rods? like if its towed in?

[250rmike]

could be putting the suspension at such an angle that the tie rods are binding

you were having trouble with the lower yfz shocks on because the rear was not lower also...it was still at stock height...the front to rear balance was out of whack...your rear should be lower than the front, not the front lower than the rear

don't take this the wrong way but...just because you have time on the quad does not mean that you are still doing it right...but i cannot say as i have not seen you ride...

[Fenix169motox]

nah man its ok, the only problems i was havin with the yfz's was the length. i had no travel, they werent right for me at all. and yeah understandable that a low front and a high rear was really killin me.. but im kinda on track now,

good to hear

[Fenix169motox]

Hey guys does anyone konw if the stock 450r stock shocks' PIGGY BACK RESI hits the upper a arm if you bottom out? i took my quad to class today and a couple of my classmates pointed it out and yeah, just curious. Kinda thinkin about nt racin mx anymore and tryin my luck on XC .. any suggestions? just bigger tires and more ground clearance stuff right? i dunno what im getttin myself into but mx is kinda outa my league, in any case an xc quad can still hit up the mx track and everything i'd ride back home would be trails.. whats ppls suggestions on set ups? im keepin for my soon to be re-valved 450r shocks and stuff. same swinger and axle.. what about the front end..

for XC get skid plates and something like 22" fronts and 20" rears. for mx most use 20" fronts and 18" rears and no skid plates

[Fenix169motox]

all right, got a skid for the rear, and im gunna see about fabbin a stainless one for the belly n stuff.. like whats the "got setup" as the famous words of Dana lol but yeah, i have stocker a arms, 1.25 swinger, +4 axle, i know i dont gotta be super wide, and its got the spacers so i can make it stock again, what kind of a arms should i look into gettin? and tire choice? im due for new tires right now anyways, i have the hy-per beadlocks 8x8 in the rr

but yeah.. my linkage needs all three of the lower bearings.. wow they were shot. but yeah those will be here tomoro and im gettin my shocks set up for xc with +2 arms, i dont have any yet but thats the width im looking into


Feedback?

+4 axle for XC seems too wide to me, a-arms +2 would be fine. I run stock and its great for those tight spaces because i know i have enough room. Tire wise go razrs no doubt

[250rmike]

yea you might want to put the spacer back on the outside to narrow the quad alittle bit if your going to be using it as an xc bike

[poolguy55]

Hey Fenix.. I Pm'ed you.

[Fenix169motox]

yeah +4 is wide. where im at now im better off gettin a completely new quad and puttin the transfer-able stuff on it. and gettin rid of it. there's so many things i'd have to replace (bearing wise) if i start gettin too competative. its a lot of little stuff.

anyways, i'll fur sure need new fenders all the way around, and there's no way im puttin stock 400ex ones on there.. i have race cut ones now, but theres no way i'll survive xc with that lol..

probably with that said weekend warrior at the mx track would be my cheapest bet. re-valves are what im lookin at doing for suspension, +2 a arms

thanks guys for all your help on stuff

[250rmike]

do what you want to do most dont say well this will be cheapest and easiest if you want to race xc throw the stock 400 fenders back on replace a few bearing(if they need replacing for racing then they need it for being a weekend warrior too) adjust you axle and try it out worst that can happen is you dont like it and go from there. you should never do anything that wasnt your first choice because its easier and cheaper. just my thoughts

[Fenix169motox]

all righty, i replaced the linkage bearings,, easy but expensive., i neeed all together new a arms, (they're completely wore out) my bearing carrier needs new bearings, probably my sing arm too.. those i can get through a company tho.. but yaeh, im in need of a 400ex frame so i can start over, i got into a wreck last feb. and i had to re-frame it, i got an el cheap-o one for 100 bucks, but i got what i paid for, bent up, crap. lol but yeah, all i really need after the a arms is a frame., if that. but then im back to ridin :) i would love to race xc and all but im kinda gettin outa the racin groove, maybe next summer