Stay on the 400 or Switch to a 450?

[national425ex]

I race XC. Mostly district 11. Next year I plan on racing some of the GNCC. I race C class and Next year I wont get bumped up so I will race in C again. I have absoutly no problems keeping up and beating most of the 450s in C class. My 400ex motor has the following mods; It was built by Tom Carlson of TC Racing. It has the 425 kit in it, A Wiseco Piston, TC National Cam, TC lightened crank, TC lightened rotor, and TC shorty Exhaust, along with a hinson clutch basket and hardened rockers. Now for next year Im trying to decide whether to move to a 450r or stay on the 400. If I stay on the 400 I will put about 2 grand in it to rebuild it for next season. Right now it is pretty well set up with all the parts a XC quad should have. Some stuff just needs replaced. Im thinking about staying on the 400 for next season, rebuild it and Jump to a 450 the following year when I move to B Class. Im looking for everyones opinion on this. Thanks.

[shadowwalker]

If I was in that position I wouldn't want to put 2 grand into a quad I'm only going to ride one more season. Thats a lot of cash to throw down for a few months of riding.

400ex is a sport quad that is very versatile. Trail to MX basically it can do it all. A 450 you have to rev much higher which makes it basically just a race quad just going full out on the throtle. My friend had a debate like this and finally switched to a brand new 450r from his 05 400ex. After 2 weeks of having it he is sellin it and looking to buy the new 400ex. His explination of the 450r "man the 450 is a piece of crap. i mean its fast and all but its not what i like for what i do"

[coryatver]

To be compeditive in gncc C class your going to want a 450. The top runners in that class are all on tricked out 450s with long travel shocks and everything else. If you get a 450 now, by next year you will have the setup figured out and be comfortable on it before you move up.

[XXXRACER165]

My dad still prefers the 400EX over his '06HRC 450R, he says "I like the great power of the 450 but it just doesn't handle like the EX on the trails."

[ohsobad_chevy]

Originally posted by XXXRACER165
My dad still prefers the 400EX over his '06HRC 450R, he says "I like the great power of the 450 but it just doesn't handle like the EX on the trails."

You can set a 450 up to be a great trail quad, but I agree that the 400 definitely holds its own in the trails. :cool:

[coryatver]

He doesn't want a good trail quad he wants a race quad

[ZJTurbo]

Originally posted by shadowwalker
If I was in that position I wouldn't want to put 2 grand into a quad I'm only going to ride one more season. Thats a lot of cash to throw down for a few months of riding.

but wouldn't he have to put that same 2 grand if not more into the 450??

-Ben

[national425ex]

right now my 400 is completly tricked out for XC racing. I missed alot of races this year so Im not doing so good in points, and I wont be forced to bump up. The guy that is leading district 11 points in C class is riding a stock 400ex. If that tells you anything. If I was to buy a 450r and put the amount of money I have in my 400, to make it race ready, It would be close to 4 grand without the cost of the quad itself. Im not planning on running the complete GNCC series, so Im not expecting to race competively there. I will race the ones in district 11, and the ones around it. Possibly 3 of them, maybe 4. Also there are alot of tricked out 450s in my class, and the few 400s there are doing just as good as the 450s.

[shadowwalker]

Originally posted by ZJTurbo
but wouldn't he have to put that same 2 grand if not more into the 450??

-Ben
Yeah, but at least its more of a "long term" investment.

He said if he doesn't get the 450 this season, he WILL get it next season. So he is spending 2 grand on the 400 for one season, or getting a 450 to last several.

[Hondamaster5505]

Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
400ex is a sport quad that is very versatile. Trail to MX basically it can do it all. A 450 you have to rev much higher which makes it basically just a race quad just going full out on the throtle. My friend had a debate like this and finally switched to a brand new 450r from his 05 400ex. After 2 weeks of having it he is sellin it and looking to buy the new 400ex. His explination of the 450r "man the 450 is a piece of crap. i mean its fast and all but its not what i like for what i do"

I disagree,
the 450 has an alright low-end, a killer midrange (what you want in gncc), and a pretty sweet top, you dont have to keep reving it to the moon to make it go, and plus, all it takes is a tooth down on the front sproket.

I say go 450, they handle better, they have better power, they have better technology, and they are where the racing scene is going. In the long-run, they are slightly better than the 400 for racing, they value higher for resale, and it would be a long term investment

IMO

[gncc025]

this is what i would do if i was in your shoes. sell the 400 get a 450 put some suspension and skids under it and race. imo a stock 450 motor of any kind would be good enough to take 1st in a C or B calss race, plus reliability wouldnt really be a question. you would be set for a while i think. just my.02

[XXXRACER165]

Originally posted by Hondamaster5505
I say go 450, they handle better.

Then why is it that an A class rider can go faster on my 440EX on the trails, than my dads HRC450R?:huh

[Brehmmotorsport]

I hope i settle this for you. you started this thread for one thing. Opinions, and that is what you got opinions. Ok back to the question, trust me dude i am i the same boat but maybe alittle farther more into the race scene. I am ranked second right now in pa in the pa state series for 25+. I have pulled about 7 holeshots this year and my teammate on his yfz450 is just in awesome shape who is leading the points. You have alot more money into your quad as i do mine. My motor is stock with the tc shorty exhaust and sparks timing advance, that is all that is done to the motor. I have a ton of handling mods done though. We race C class the finish is all in the riders endurance. I ran the gncc at somerset and I had a bad start choice and got second into the holeshot out of all those people. Now let me go on the only quad that beat me was another 400ex. So out of like 70 quads in the nation the 2 quads fighting for the holeshot in 24+ class were two 400exs, what does that tell you. It is all opinion. Do what you think you will be most comfortable on. Yes the 400 will hold its own in xc. Not mx but xc the 400 is still awesome.

[440challenger]

best of both worlds.......:D

[svahle]

Just looking at this from an economic point of view, you are better off buying the 450 now and setting it up for racing. If you race the 400ex next year you will be putting $2000 into it. Then, the year after you will be selling the 400ex (with an additional year of depreciation) and buying a 450 that you will put $4000 in to (I am just using your numbers from an above post). You will also likely loose all of the additional $2000 you invested in the 400ex because it is nearly impossible to recover this from selling the quad. So, you will have invested $6000 w/out the cost of the 450 and have lost more more money on the sale of the 400ex. I would guess by going this route you will have spent/lost $7000 - $7500 w/out the cost of the 450 (which you will have regardless).

If you buy the 450 now, you will be able to sell your 400ex now w/out the additional year of depreciaion. You will also save the $2000 you plan on investing in the 400ex. So, you will have the 450 and invest $4000 to get it race ready. Granted, a 450 might be cheaper in a year, so lets allow $1000 for this. If you go this route you will have spent/lost about $4000-$5000 (a savings of $2000 - $3500).

So, economically, you are money ahead to just go ahead and get the 450. As for performance, I have owned both the 400ex and 450s. I prefer the 450 power. I was able to set up my 450s to handle as well as a 400ex. Each quad is different. Getting them set up right is the key. Will some 400exs handle better than a 450, sure. The opposite is also true.

This is simply my opinion. Take it for what it is worth. However, I have been down this road and wish I had just went for the 450 in the first place.

[maxfior]

Originally posted by XXXRACER165
Then why is it that an A class rider can go faster on my 440EX on the trails, than my dads HRC450R?:huh

I believe it was professional engine builder Eric Gorr who said it best (at least it's something like this); "Racing is 90% rider and 10% bike"

Max

[IMSROLL450R]

Originally posted by svahle
Just looking at this from an economic point of view, you are better off buying the 450 now and setting it up for racing. If you race the 400ex next year you will be putting $2000 into it. Then, the year after you will be selling the 400ex (with an additional year of depreciation) and buying a 450 that you will put $4000 in to (I am just using your numbers from an above post). You will also likely loose all of the additional $2000 you invested in the 400ex because it is nearly impossible to recover this from selling the quad. So, you will have invested $6000 w/out the cost of the 450 and have lost more more money on the sale of the 400ex. I would guess by going this route you will have spent/lost $7000 - $7500 w/out the cost of the 450 (which you will have regardless).

If you buy the 450 now, you will be able to sell your 400ex now w/out the additional year of depreciaion. You will also save the $2000 you plan on investing in the 400ex. So, you will have the 450 and invest $4000 to get it race ready. Granted, a 450 might be cheaper in a year, so lets allow $1000 for this. If you go this route you will have spent/lost about $4000-$5000 (a savings of $2000 - $3500).

So, economically, you are money ahead to just go ahead and get the 450. As for performance, I have owned both the 400ex and 450s. I prefer the 450 power. I was able to set up my 450s to handle as well as a 400ex. Each quad is different. Getting them set up right is the key. Will some 400exs handle better than a 450, sure. The opposite is also true.

This is simply my opinion. Take it for what it is worth. However, I have been down this road and wish I had just went for the 450 in the first place.


Agreed, I own both with a lot of mods on the 450 and a few on the 400. Basically it comes down to what your comfortable on. I put a 12 tooth front sprocket on my 450 and tore the 400s up in XC they had no chance and I could even lug the bike. Its not just a high rev engine. Be smart and go for more power it will pay off in the long run. I love the 400ex and have rode many but theres a reason you dont see a lot of them at the front of the pack most of the time.

[Hondamaster5505]

Then why is it that an A class rider can go faster on my 440EX on the trails, than my dads HRC450R?

Im talking about stock for stock, and, kinda like the other guy said, its 70% rider, 30% bike.

If you put doug gust on a stock 400ex and a inexperienced rider on a race-ready 450r, who do u think will win?

Originally posted by Hondamaster5505
Then why is it that an A class rider can go faster on my 440EX on the trails, than my dads HRC450R?

Im talking about stock for stock, and, kinda like the other guy said, its 70% rider, 30% bike.

If you put doug gust on a stock 400ex and a inexperienced rider on a race-ready 450r, who do u think will win?


Cant agree more. Personally I like the 400ex geometry better than a 450 but its all personal prefferance. All the top pros ride the 450's but for the most versatile use a 400ex is better

[IMSROLL450R]

Originally posted by Hondamaster5505
Then why is it that an A class rider can go faster on my 440EX on the trails, than my dads HRC450R?

Im talking about stock for stock, and, kinda like the other guy said, its 70% rider, 30% bike.

If you put doug gust on a stock 400ex and a inexperienced rider on a race-ready 450r, who do u think will win?


Obviously the person on the 440 is more comfortable and familiar on the 440 but to say that the 400 is a better XC bike than the 450r is a far stretch. Once I got used to the 450 I as well as many other people able to ride a very powerful bike actually prefer it. The suspension on the 400 is actually worse than the 450r in stock form so how can anyone say its a better ride.

As far as doug gust on a 400 blah blah what does that prove thats a totally different arguement???? That doesnt apply here at all the question was which bike was better in the woods the 400 or 450r? Take a look at the finish line you will never see a pro cross it first on a 400. Theres a reason they choose the 450r over a 400, its faster...........

thats true they are faster but if your only aloud to have 450cc max a 440 can compete.

[Hondamaster5505]

Originally posted by IMSROLL450R
Obviously the person on the 440 is more comfortable and familiar on the 440 but to say that the 400 is a better XC bike than the 450r is a far stretch. Once I got used to the 450 I as well as many other people able to ride a very powerful bike actually prefer it. The suspension on the 400 is actually worse than the 450r in stock form so how can anyone say its a better ride.

As far as doug gust on a 400 blah blah what does that prove thats a totally different arguement???? That doesnt apply here at all the question was which bike was better in the woods the 400 or 450r? Take a look at the finish line you will never see a pro cross it first on a 400. Theres a reason they choose the 450r over a 400, its faster...........

First of all, i didnt say 440, i said stock for stock...

second of all, the doug gust thing DID have to do with the subject. People are fighting over which one is better in the woods. Well a pro in the woods on a stock 400 will beat a inexperienced guy on a full xc built 450, hence the doug gust comparison. I didnt say pro vs pro. DERR

Therefore, its all on how he is as a rider, and what hes comfortable on. What works for YOU doesnt always work for someone else. If hes a good rider and likes the ergonomics of the 450, by all means he would probably be better off than the 400

[tim colston]

Originally posted by coryatver
He doesn't want a good trail quad he wants a race quad

he wants a race quad for GNCC. What do you think they race on. TRAILS

[Hondamaster5505]

Originally posted by tim colston
he wants a race quad for GNCC. What do you think they race on. TRAILS
LMFAO!

[tanner 222]

if i were you and i kind of did the same thing you are doing. i was going to keep my 400 and do a bunch of motor mods to it but when i tried out a 426 ex and tried out a 450r there is just no comparison. it might have the same amount of power but it just doesn't have it in the right area's that the 450 has. if i were you just save your money and buy a 450 like i did.

[450rJam]

I have a 400ex and a 450r and like them both but diff reasons.
the 400 is great to run the trails with my kids and get a little crazy from time to time

the 450 is just impressive, it begs to be pushed and the adrinaline
rush is alot better,

the 400 can keep up in the tight stuff (because you cant use all the 450 power) but hit a short straight and the 400 falls fast.

ill keep them both and have fun on them but if I had to pick only one, the 400 would have to go

the 06+ are geared lower with more compression and more low end, and the 40/05 have better turning front end, but any year 450r will go faster for less $$