How to convert to Alcohol-methonol???? and why?

[beobe99]

Ok guys I know theres another thread on this topic but wanted more specific answers. what is ALL needed to convert to Alcohol or methonol injection. How does it work? is it similiar to NOS? is it a steady flow or just Wide open throttle? does it mix with your current fuel? need a seperate tank? a pump? battary for the pump? hehe!

what I do know...

I understand why it's used with being into import cars and mainly turbo cars (run more boost and cool it down with the alcohol/meth/or water injection to help prevent detonation.

(anyone run water injection?)

With non-turbo engines (like our quads) when you mess with timing you take the chance of creating detonation and this is where Alcohol/meth comes in im guessing????

If anyone has a list of all the parts needed to convert to Alcohol I would highly apreciate it. Even if you could go more into detail of the install that would also be highly appreicated..

Thanks guys!!

[kiesta00]

Alcohol pretty much gives you a 5-10% increase in hp. It runs cooler and allows your motor to make a few more ponies. You have to get someone who is familiar with alky carburetors to setup/tune your bike, otherwise you'll have trouble. You'll need to get a pingle fuel valve to increase your fuel flow, and also get a bigger bowl for the carb OR get a fuel pump and keep your stock bowl. If you go with the pump you have to drill a vacuum line in your cylinder, so make sure you want to permanently convert to a pump setup.

[regg187]

Incase you didn't see the entire picture from kiesta's reply you are running totally on methanol and it 's not just a shot into your fuel mix. also it requires certain lubricating oils as alot of 2-stroke oils don't mix with methanol. And if I remember correctly the stuff is fairly corrosive, just sitting around in your fuel system.

[wilkin250r]

Let's take it one step at a time.

Alcohol is not an injection system, like nitrous. It is a complete conversion. Instead of running gasoline, you run alcohol, completely. You fill your gas tank with alcohol.

Alcohol isn't more "explosive" than gasoline, that's not where the power comes from. It doesn't require as much oxygen to burn, so you can burn a lot MORE of it. About twice as much for any given amount of air. With all this extra fuel burning, you end up with about 5-10% more power.

But, as you can see, you are using a lot more, which means you need to flow more. A LOT more. It's not just a matter of larger jets in your carb, you usually need to drill out the needle passage to get enough flow. For this reason, you usually end up with a carburetor set up specifically for alcohol.

It attracts water, so you have to be careful how you store it, you can't let it sit in your tank for long periods of time. You may need to upgrade your seals in your petcock, fuel line, and carburetor, because the alcohol can eat through them. You also need to flush your fuel lines and system with gasoline after each time you run it, to keep rust and corrosion down.

[GPracer2500]

Burning methanol as an alternative fuel to gasoline is one thing. People do that on 250r's and all manner of powersport engines. There are also water and water/methanol injection systems that are another thing entirely. The OP may be combining these to different things together, causing some confusion. I've never heard of running a water injection system on a 250r. I think because....

I have trouble seeing the benefit of a water or water/methanol injection system on a non-boosted engine. As I think you understand, beobe99, for the most part those systems work by lowering combustion temperatures so ever higher levels of boost can be used--levels that would not otherwise be possible because of fuel's limitations. The very high specific heat and heat of vaporization of water are what creates the lower combustion temperatures. Basically, it takes a lot of energy to heat up one unit of water. So when you add water to combustion chamber, a significant portion of energy that would go into creating a whole bunch of heat goes into bringing the water up to the same temperature as everything else. The effect is lower peak temps for everything. That's a simplification, but that's essentially where the root benefit comes from. Water injection by itself provides very little if any benefit, and even some disadvantages (AFAIK). It's the additional things water injection allows you to do (i.e. lots of boost) that actually produce the extra power and yields a net gain.

Water or water/methanol injection is similar to nitrous injection in that 1) they are both normally used intermittently for extra power situations, 2) they both have a cooling effect (this is the dominant factor for water injection; a factor, but not the dominant one for nitrous injection), and 3) both nitrous and water or water/methanol can be "fed" to the engine in similar ways.

But their different because water injection is really just one component in a more complicated power-adding system--not a stand-alone benefit (like nitrous).

AFAIK, water injection has traditionally been used for piston engined, supercharged or turbocharged airplanes. Methanol is usually mixed with the water so it won't freeze. If there's a benefit in highly boosted cars to using a mixture of water and methanol vs. just water aside from the freezing temp, I'm not aware of it (but there may be). What little I know about water injection is from airplanes, not cars.

[beobe99]

Originally posted by GPracer2500
Burning methanol as an alternative fuel to gasoline is one thing. People do that on 250r's and all manner of powersport engines. There are also water and water/methanol injection systems that are another thing entirely. The OP may be combining these to different things together, causing some confusion. I've never heard of running a water injection system on a 250r. I think because....

I have trouble seeing the benefit of a water or water/methanol injection system on a non-boosted engine. As I think you understand, beobe99, for the most part those systems work by lowering combustion temperatures so ever higher levels of boost can be used--levels that would not otherwise be possible because of fuel's limitations. The very high specific heat and heat of vaporization of water are what creates the lower combustion temperatures. Basically, it takes a lot of energy to heat up one unit of water. So when you add water to combustion chamber, a significant portion of energy that would go into creating a whole bunch of heat goes into bringing the water up to the same temperature as everything else. The effect is lower peak temps for everything. That's a simplification, but that's essentially where the root benefit comes from. Water injection by itself provides very little if any benefit, and even some disadvantages (AFAIK). It's the additional things water injection allows you to do (i.e. lots of boost) that actually produce the extra power and yields a net gain.

Water or water/methanol injection is similar to nitrous injection in that 1) they are both normally used intermittently for extra power situations, 2) they both have a cooling effect (this is the dominant factor for water injection; a factor, but not the dominant one for nitrous injection), and 3) both nitrous and water or water/methanol can be "fed" to the engine in similar ways.

But their different because water injection is really just one component in a more complicated power-adding system--not a stand-alone benefit (like nitrous).

AFAIK, water injection has traditionally been used for piston engined, supercharged or turbocharged airplanes. Methanol is usually mixed with the water so it won't freeze. If there's a benefit in highly boosted cars to using a mixture of water and methanol vs. just water aside from the freezing temp, I'm not aware of it (but there may be). What little I know about water injection is from airplanes, not cars.

Bravo! very nice discription. I have acouple buddies that are running water injection (aquamist system) in WRX's and seen it run in some RX7's (Rotory is very similiar to 2-stroke.. some 7 owners actualy run 2-stroke oil in there gas as well. With RX7's the major issue is heat. Both boosted engines above run water to help run more boost, cool and stop detonation. Plus is cleans the engine constantly.

Funny you mentioned Airplanes because just yesterday I was asking a friend about this and he was saying his Uncle runs meth (or maybe it was alcohol) in his race Plane (like the red bull race you see advertised now on TV).. he uses it for cooling and was saying it actualy helps make the engine last alot longer.

Good info.. Im learning hehe!