View Full Version : No-link setup
250Renvy
09-13-2007, 07:17 PM
Did they add the nolink setup because it is the best for XC? Or is it just to save weight?
Will the Mx or SX version have it as well
bwamos
09-14-2007, 05:21 AM
I'm sure there are many reasons.
No-link is better for XC. No linkage to slam into the ground.
They are using quality Ohlins shocks so no need to use linkage to compensate for cheap shocks. It is also a tad lighter.
But, my money is on the simple "no suspension parts to slam into rocks" setup.
Of course their dirtbikes xc and motocross alike are no-link.
On the front however, I still havent figured out why they went with such a wide geometry at the frame instead of going with a narrow geometry front end. It is nearly as wide as the old LT-250R front mounts. It's gotta have a lot of bump-steer. (pure speculation of course)
OutlawBill
09-14-2007, 06:11 AM
With the PDS rear shock there is no need for linkage
NOS_350x
10-29-2007, 12:45 AM
Look at ktm dirbikes they are all no-link. Thats just how they do it. I hear from ktm dirbike riders that say they can get a better feel for the track. i dono wtf that meens
spanky101
10-29-2007, 05:39 PM
all ktm bikes are no link and i dont see them doin a linkage on their quad anytime soon. I remeber back to the 250r days, a narrow frame, no link bike was hott stuff and proboly some of te best equipment availible.
inthewoods10
10-31-2007, 02:58 PM
bump steer is not an issue with the ktm front end, in fact based on feed back from a pro gncc rider riding my ktm it is the best thus far out of the box
spanky101
10-31-2007, 07:05 PM
Im really excited for adam to get his bike and have it at baldwin's along with tim farr's! ha i have great hopes for this quad. The only thing holding it back maybe the lack of efi? I know 2 other bikes dont have it but it is the wave of the future.
john cunningham
12-10-2007, 12:30 PM
NEXT TO MY GAS GAS THAT I RACED FOR THREE YEARS FOR THEM. THIS 525 IS TITS. THERE IS BASICALLY NO BUMP STEER AND THE STARTING ISSUE / UNLIKE MY HONDAS IS NOT AN ISSUE U AS MUCH AS BREATH ON THE BUTTON AND ITS RUNNING
Drewltr450
12-18-2007, 06:34 PM
ktm did no link shock because thats what theve done on there dirt bikes and theve got it perfectly why change it
Smoker
01-03-2008, 05:59 AM
The back shock uses two pistons so it works like it has a linkage, one piston handles the beginning of the stroke so it's plush until it is bypassed by a hard hit or the travel progresses to the where it engages the other piston (or circuit if you will) and resists bottoming, so it probably actually rides a little better than a linkage suspension. This setup is by no means a weakness, unless you like adding weight to your bike with a linkage. This is my meager understanding of it anyway.
RATPACK Z400
01-04-2008, 06:11 PM
The advantages with the linkege is being able to get more shock travel thats were the ktm for mx wont be as good as the rest.say you have 10in travel with link you can put a shock with 12in travel in were with no link you cant !unless you change swingarm mounts.
LEOGM5150
01-04-2008, 06:33 PM
the ktm 525 and 450 xc already have 11 inches of rear shock travel with ohlins shocks. if the mx has that i don't see it needing much more.
the 2008 polaris outlaw 525 and 450 sra quads also have 11 inches of rear end travel with fox shocks.
the yamaha yfz450 only has 10.6 inches of travel in the rear and the honda 450 trx only has 9 inches of travel in the rear. they both have link type swingarm setups.
if the link setup is supposed to provide more travel then why does the ktm and polaris have more travel with out it? is the link just to compensate for cheap shocks with little travel or what? i always here that true race machines have a link rearend. it is always from yamaha and honda guys. it seems to not be needed i hate the link setup on the 440ex i just built, with mx tires it has very little ground clearance.
54warrior
01-07-2008, 05:43 AM
Originally posted by LEOGM5150
[the 2008 polaris outlaw 525 and 450 sra quads also have 11 inches of rear end travel with fox shocks.
the yamaha yfz450 only has 10.6 inches of travel in the rear and the honda 450 trx only has 9 inches of travel in the rear. they both have link type swingarm setups.
11" vs. 10.6"...seems like we're crying over spilt milk here?!?!
Colby@C&DRacing
01-07-2008, 09:07 AM
Just because one design uses a link doesn't mean it will have more travel. A linkage is intended to change the leverage ratio over the rear shock throughout it's stroke, high amounts of leverage at the beginning gives the shock a soft feel and less leverage at the end of the stroke make the shock firmer to resist bottoming. KTM used the Ohlins PDS rear shock which allows for a light soft feel at the beginning of the stroke and still has good bottoming resistance at the end of the stroke.
LEOGM5150
01-09-2008, 11:59 AM
thank you for explaining the leverage difference that makes alot more sense to me i could see how that would be an advantage. i know very little about the dynamics of suspension performance i just know what feels right for me when i am riding but adjusting it or explaining is not easy for me.
i was always told the link setup provided more travel but i see that is not the case that it is a leverage issue. i am glad i asked that question because i just didn't know. the whole link setup now makes more sense to me.
thanks Colby@C&DRacing
inthewoods10
01-09-2008, 06:14 PM
that is right , the rear shock is a pdf ohlins, progressive dampning, as u progress through the stroke the shock valving works to increase resistance at the bottom to resist bottoming out. The new race set up for the rear will have a dual spring set up much like the front, but in order to get full benefit the current shock body will be shortened, the shaft lenght increased to create a shock with more travel allowing a lower stance in the rear but still having the some current shock travel. Hopefully this will reduce some of the weight transfer to the front keeping the weight more neutral on the quad. Will be available through ohlins the end of this month, but again you will have to have your rear shock reworked $$$.
Colby@C&DRacing
01-10-2008, 08:54 AM
I agree the rear shock needs some changes. Once we have our KTM here we will be able to see what all can be done with the stock rear shock to lower the ride height and maximize travel
john cunningham
01-10-2008, 09:22 AM
COLBY/ I HAVE ONE AND HAVE SINCE MADE SEVERAL CHANGES / EAST COAST RUN THE SHOCKS ON THERE DYNO AND HAVE REVALVED AND RESPRUNG THE REAR AND CHANGED THE TENDER ON THE FRONTS AS WELL AS REVALVED. VERY NICE SET UP NOW / ONE SIMPLE CHANGE U CAN DO TO LOWER THE REAR IS AS SIMPLE AS ROTATING THE BEARING CARRIER IT WILL LOWER THE REAR AN INCH. ONCE U STUDY YOURS U WILL SEE WHAT I MEAN. ALSO I HAVE DESIGNED AND MADE STAINLESS SKIDS FOR THE SWING ARM ILL HAVE SOME WELDED UP NEXT WEEK I HOPE I GET TIME THIS WEEKEND IF U KNOW ANYONE NEEDING ONE
kiwi-craig
02-10-2008, 11:39 AM
I can't figure the statement re this thing has no bump steer, what a load of bull, pull the front shocks off, and cycle the suspension through it's travel, this thing has significant toe in in the middle of the wheel travel. We have significant kick back through the steering in turns, a steering damper had a significant difference, but pretty dissappointed with this quads suspension and general setup, it's no where near race ready....... too tall in the rear, to much compression damping in the fronts, bad bump steer.......... it's a pity cause the rest of the package is superb.
Quadevil
02-10-2008, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by kiwi-craig
it's no where near race ready....... too tall in the rear, to much compression damping in the fronts, bad bump steer.......... it's a pity cause the rest of the package is superb.
You're talking about "race ready" for the mx tracks?
kiwi-craig
02-10-2008, 07:29 PM
nope, even for XC it is to tall in the rear and to harsh in the front end damping, for MX an LTR wastes it in the handling department
Dale512
02-10-2008, 08:36 PM
Yea, it is too stiff for XC racing in the front for my taste but I weigh a whole 160lbs.
For MX the LT-R is wide and low which is a good start, but the suspension is still way to harsh, the swing-arm is too long, and the frontend pushes and it has a fair amount of bumpsteer also.
kiwi-craig
02-10-2008, 09:27 PM
interested in your LTR comments, I'd rate it as the best turn in out of all the jap stuff by miles and less feedback than the KTM through the bars. Back swingarm to long ??? dunno about that, the team bikes aren't shorter ?? heck when we had Gust out here he waxed the whole damn field on a basically stock ltr, only changes where a set of fox evols on the front and a podium in the rear setup for his weight........ sure was impressive watching him race.
yup stock they are stiff on the low speed, but for the money a quick revalve on the front and your good to go. For the money the suzuki is a great machine, especially with the low prices you can get old stock 07's for ................
Dale512
02-10-2008, 10:04 PM
Yea, your not the only person who doesnt agree with me on my comments on the LT-R. I've ridden quite a few of them and the front just feels slow & stiff and doesnt hookup as well as I like, but they are very stable and have great ergos.
Then again I have a KFX450R which has some very serious setup issues that I'm working on. Stock Suspension is horrible for everything, no bumpsteer but turns far too quickly, too tall in the rear, very anemic engine, vibrates....but I'm getting it dailed in and I'm beginning to like it more than my old ARS-FX/Axis/Baldwin YFZ.
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