View Full Version : Patriots - cheaters?
Anyone care to discuss?
If and when they are found guilty, I hope the league comes down on them - hard! :grr:
I've read many comments from around the league and it seems everyone has the same response "...everytime we played them, it seemed they were always one step ahead of us..."
I guess now we know why...
So much for the dynasty team of this decade... maybe they can join Bond's with a nice asterisk next to their win column! :o
I'm not into football that much, but what happened?
I think the league should give all the users hefty fines that'll dent their salaries ( not some 10,000 dollars that they can make in one game...and then some)
Maybe a couple games suspension...I just want the league to do something to send a message to other teams that they won't tolerate it.
07250ex
09-13-2007, 06:18 PM
pats are the best team in football yall are just hating
450rJam
09-13-2007, 06:20 PM
it wasnt the players it was the coach/ownership
if found guilty they should face a steep fine (not a slap on wrist)
and lose their first 3 draft picks
they better make an example of them so others will not follow
(if they have not done so already)
tgreenz400
09-13-2007, 06:21 PM
I seriously doubt this had an effect on the 3 SB wins. As for this season, yes it is cheating and they should be penalized but i dont if it really effected the game to much...but hey you never know. They have a great set of players on the field and thats the reason theyre winning in my opinion.:ermm: They are the Yankees of football this decade.
Originally posted by tgreenz400
I seriously doubt this had an effect on the 3 SB wins. As for this season, yes it is cheating and they should be penalized but i dont if it really effected the game to much...but hey you never know. They have a great set of players on the field and thats the reason theyre winning in my opinion.:ermm: They are the Yankees of football this decade.
Funny how the Yankees have a steroid user on their team too....Odd?
You could have the greatest mind in football, and still suck. But when you use illegal ways of getting better, there's no reason for it.
I hope to God they get more than just a few draft picks taken away.
tgreenz400
09-13-2007, 06:25 PM
As for punishment; i say take away two draft picks, fire coach responsible, bellichek (sp) should be fined at least100K because im posOtive he knew about the whole thing and is probably responsible. As for the players, NON of them should suffer from this because this was all coaching and poor managment.
killerofcrows48
09-13-2007, 06:27 PM
"Belichick Fined; Pats Lose Pick.
Bill Belichick was hit with a $500,000 fine Thursday night -- the maximum allowable by NFL by-laws -- for violating the league's policy on videotaping the Jets defensive signs Sunday. In addition, Roger Goodell notified the Patriots that they would forfeit a 2008 first-round draft choice if they reach the playoffs, or second- and third-round picks if they do not qualify for the playoffs. The club was also fined $250,000."
Straight off of ESPN's website
Originally posted by 07250ex
pats are the best team in football yall are just hating
yall? As in the entire NFL league?
I never knew the "league" (not fan's) hated the Patriots... Hmmm
What they did will now put question marks into everyone's mind as to how this gave them an advantage - especially with their performance of that last 4-6 years... Hmmmm
Originally posted by tgreenz400
As for punishment; i say take away two draft picks, fire coach responsible, bellichek (sp) should be fined at least100K because im posOtive he knew about the whole thing and is probably responsible. As for the players, NON of them should suffer from this because this was all coaching and poor managment.
You can't force a player to take steroids. It takes two to tango.
Fine the players just as much as the coach since they attributed about just as much to the problem as the other.
tgreenz400
09-13-2007, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by MrMan
Funny how the Yankees have a steroid user on their team too....Odd?
Steroids are a whole different issue. Im not saying they aren't using them, just that regardless of them or not they have one of the best rosters in the NFL. I'm sure their are PLENTY of teams using illegal substances but theirs nothing you can do.
Originally posted by killerofcrows48
"Belichick Fined; Pats Lose Pick.
Bill Belichick was hit with a $500,000 fine Thursday night -- the maximum allowable by NFL by-laws -- for violating the league's policy on videotaping the Jets defensive signs Sunday. In addition, Roger Goodell notified the Patriots that they would forfeit a 2008 first-round draft choice if they reach the playoffs, or second- and third-round picks if they do not qualify for the playoffs. The club was also fined $250,000."
Straight off of ESPN's website
Not enough IMO.
Belichick and staff should be suspended as well - at a minimum.
exrider12
09-13-2007, 06:30 PM
you all are just hating because the pats won 3 superbowls in the last wat 5-6 years?i know its bad what they did but do you think the jets or any other team would beat them any way:blah: :D :macho
tgreenz400
09-13-2007, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by MrMan
Fine the players just as much as the coach since they attributed about just as much to the problem as the other. So are they supposed to fine every single player on the team?:ermm: Coaches are supposed to set a good example to follow... That is obviosly not happening. Don't blame players, blame coaching. I don't think they had anything to do with this when Weis was there.
Originally posted by exrider12
you all are just hating because the pats won 3 superbowls in the last wat 5-6 years?
So now everyone asks "Did the Patriots really win those games fair and square?"
Being they got caught doing this during a REGULAR season game and against the Jets - which they could beat IMO fair and square(no offense Jet fan's) throws a red flag in my book when looking at their past performance. What do you think happens when they are in a big game against a strong opponent...Yea, I'm sure they just stop cheating when the real pressure is on... :rolleyes:
Pappy
09-13-2007, 06:35 PM
probably just like nascar, everyone does it, they just got caught...lol
Originally posted by tgreenz400
So are they supposed to fine every single player on the team?:ermm: Coaches are supposed to set a good example to follow... That is obviosly not happening. Don't blame players, blame coaching. I don't think they had anything to do with this when Weis was there.
Every player that does it....Yes.
Punish a player that didn't.....No.
Basically,what I'm saying is that if you break a rule...There are punishments. If NFL doesn't set an example out of the Patriots, it'll ruin the whole game because other teams will realize that since Patriots got away with,why not them?
Just because they have a few Superbowl rings doesn't mean they have a Get out of Trouble free card...It don't work like that.
07250ex
09-13-2007, 06:41 PM
Everybody in the NFL is on steroids notice they dont test for it lol its just not natural to have a 6 foot 3 300 pound man that runs 4 50's
tgreenz400
09-13-2007, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by 07250ex
Everybody in the NFL is on steroids notice they dont test for it lol its just not natural to have a 6 foot 3 300 pound man that runs 4 50's I think you need to get out more:ermm: They have drug test monthly im pretty sure
tgreenz400
09-13-2007, 06:45 PM
The problem is that you have these scientist who get paid tons of money to find new types of preformance enhancing drugs that can't be detected. So by all means im not saying players aren't on them.:ermm:
I think the thread is drifting off course... steroid use is not part of the original thread.
This was not a physical advantage per say - it was a strategic advantage - which can have a larger impact on a game IMO.
derekhonda
09-13-2007, 06:53 PM
I always knew the colts were actually the better team in the rivalry :D
Haha, all kidding aside though that is awful. I think they should have been hit harder with penalties for sure. I am sure now there will be people there watching them, lets see how the finish this season up when they don't know what the other team has planned.
jcv400ex
09-13-2007, 06:55 PM
I love it that it was the Pats that got caught doing this. I'm sure there's other teams that do it. I think that they should have suspened Bill.....
Originally posted by MOFO
I think the thread is drifting off course... steroid use is not part of the original thread.
This was not a physical advantage per say - it was a strategic advantage - which can have a larger impact on a game IMO.
Told you that I don't want NFL that much. :( To clear up any confusion....I was talking about steroids the WHOLE time..now to the intended point of this thread...
NEW YORK -- New England coach Bill Belichick was fined the NFL maximum of $500,000 Thursday and the Patriots were ordered to pay $250,000 for videotaping an opponent's offensive and defensive signals.
Commissioner Roger Goodell also ordered the team to give up next year's first-round draft choice if it reaches the playoffs and second- and third-round picks if it doesn't.
"This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid longstanding rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field," Goodell said in a letter to the Patriots.
NFL policy states that "no video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game" and that all video shooting locations for club coaching purposes "must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."
450rJam
09-13-2007, 06:58 PM
even the united nations put limits on how close you are "supose" to look into other countries with satilite feeds.
on a clear day they can tell you what the date is on a coin from outerspace.
pappy prob. hit it on the head, everyone does it they just got caught.
be real curious if they continue winning or if they fall to mediocrity
Originally posted by 450rJam
pappy prob. hit it on the head, everyone does it they just got caught.
be real curious if they continue winning or if they fall to mediocrity
Yep - very well possible - however it does not make it right or ok for them to do this. What really dings the entire situation is "who" got caught mixed with their past performance - makes ya wonder.
I also agree it will be interesting to follow the rest of the season... as if I really needed another reason to watch another game. :devil: ;)
gncc025
09-13-2007, 08:15 PM
the whole thing disgusts me. i like football just as much as the next guy but it seems like the nfl is just going down the drain. the players, coaches and all. i think this needs to be the call sign for the nfl to redo the punishment system for sure. if it were me doing the sentencing id suspend every single person involved from the league indefinitely. no matter how many or what the cost. these players and coaches are way over paid imo and should at least show respect for the game. i dont think some of them realize how lucky they are to be paid millions of dollars to play a game.
and srry for getting a little off topic i just had to speak my mind.
Quad18star
09-13-2007, 08:44 PM
I wouldn't think video taping would bring such a harsh punishement . I mean it's one thing to enhance your performance on the field using drugs ... but I mean a video tape doesn't really do too much . Sure it might tell you where the other player might be going , but it doesn't guarantee that you're going to stop that player . If the opposing team is physically stronger they'll make it to the end zone .
Anyone hear about the fine that McLearen Racing got today ?? Talk about a harsh penalty and putting a hurt on the team .... $100 000 000 fine ... that's right ... One Hundred MILLION dollar fine.
Now that is CRAZY !!!!!!!:eek2:
Fred55
09-13-2007, 10:08 PM
There was also an incindent last year where the Patriots were caught filming defensive calls against the Packers...I guess nothing really happened there...
300exOH
09-13-2007, 10:26 PM
I'm a little shocked by all this. I always thought Belichick was a respectable guy when he coached in Cleveland. Too bad he didn't cheat then...at least maybe the Browns would've won a game or 2.:ermm:
I just get irritated when I hear these guys are cheating when they make million$ for playing a GAME. If I did anything half as bad at the workplace I would be out on my arse.
I don't really think the punishment is enough... they should have fired everyone involved IMO. If my kids were caught cheating on a test at school they would be expelled for the year...why should it be any different for an NFL coach/player or staff?
reptikes
09-14-2007, 01:23 AM
Its no secret we (Steelers) got cheated in 2001 (giving them 100 field goal attemps) for the Patriots to go to the Superbowl. Now we see another angle that they most likely cheated us on.
And YES it would directly affect the Patriots getting to and winning all of the Superbowls! They new exactly what teams were going to do.
Originally posted by Quad18star
but I mean a video tape doesn't really do too much . Sure it might tell you where the other player might be going ,
:huh
You've got to be kidding... Have you watched the NFL? It completely changes the dynamics of the game when you are calling your OWN plays!
450rJam
09-14-2007, 04:20 AM
prob. the single biggest advantage a team could have, to know before the snap if its pass or run and even which side ? the check down ? the snap count ? its endless
when ever the playing field is so level people are going to do what they can to advance but thats just over the line in most peoples eyes
(look at all the race crews in nascar trying every trick they can think of to get a 1/2 second faster or an extra pint of fuel in)
Giz400ex
09-14-2007, 04:52 AM
First time caught, slap'em with a hefty fine and take away there draft picks in 2008....end of story! Now, if they got caught a second time??? there should be some firings!!
bwamos
09-14-2007, 05:40 AM
The only thing I dont "get", is the $250,000 fine for the club.
That's about 1/8 the cash they get from "parking fees" for a single game. That's not even a slap on the wrist.
So the message they are sending is that it's OK for the club to pressure the coach to cheat, but he better not get caught doing it.
ATV Chic
09-14-2007, 06:36 AM
I lost respect for Bellicheck and Brady both after they lost in the playoffs to the colts last year and were a bunch of sore losers. Their interviews after the game showed thei true selves unfortunately. This just takes away the remaining respect i had which wasn't very much after that. And I agree too with Pappy that, I'm sure other teams do it, they just got caught. But it still ain't right. They have always had a strong team, and spent so much on draft pics this year, they can't have a lil faith in their players? I don't get it...:o :confused:
400EXtreme
09-14-2007, 09:24 AM
im so looking forward to watching the chargers kill em
07250ex
09-14-2007, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by 300exOH
If my kids were caught cheating on a test at school they would be expelled for the year...
wow expelled lol i dont even think we get detention if we cheat
300exOH
09-14-2007, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by 07250ex
wow expelled lol i dont even think we get detention if we cheat
They take cheating very seriously at the school my kids go to and I support it 100%. Even back when I was in school we would get at least an in-school suspension or even a saturday detention for cheating...geez I sound old...:o
How are kids supposed to learn anything if they can get away with cheating in school?
quads14589
09-14-2007, 05:12 PM
you guys are all just hating becuase the pats whoop *** on all teams in the nfl, they arent always a step ahead its called a good coaching staff and its called a kick *** D-fense and offense and a good qb.
Originally posted by quads14589
you guys are all just hating becuase the pats whoop *** on all teams in the nfl, they arent always a step ahead its called a good coaching staff and its called a kick *** D-fense and offense and a good qb.
You could take a half decent player...Tell him EXACTLY what the other player will do, and most of the time...He'll do pretty good against that player.
Now...Switch out the half decent player for the Patriots.
Quad18star
09-15-2007, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by MOFO
:huh
You've got to be kidding... Have you watched the NFL? It completely changes the dynamics of the game when you are calling your OWN plays!
Nah I don't watch football too much .... never really got into it.
But there are many other sports out there that actually watch video of their opponents and study their plays and how key players perform , then work off that to try and shut them down. Some teams actually have guys on the payroll that will attend other teams practices with a video camera in hand to tape and return it back to the dressing room to study the videos.
If you're a superior team , you'll be able to shake off your opponent even if they know your plays ... it's up to the teams to come up with different ways "on the fly" to make the points.
Just my $0.02 ;)
Originally posted by quads14589
you guys are all just hating becuase the pats whoop *** on all teams in the nfl, they arent always a step ahead its called a good coaching staff and its called a kick *** D-fense and offense and a good qb.
Ummmmm, whatever - they are cheaters and will always be known as cheaters - its a fact.
I was actually a "closet" Tom Brady fan too.... now I've totally lost respect for him...
Please...
I'm not a patriots fan by any means. It was pretty stupid what they did... they have an extremely strong team this year and have a more than good chance at a super bowl title. However, I would not consider this cheating the reason they are winning because that is just ridiculous. They would have won either way no matter what plays they knew.
Originally posted by I-7
Please...
I'm not a patriots fan by any means. It was pretty stupid what they did... they have an extremely strong team this year and have a more than good chance at a super bowl title. However, I would not consider this cheating the reason they are winning because that is just ridiculous. They would have won either way no matter what plays they knew.
Please?
Knowing the plays would not help them them at all? It would not provide an advantage to them????
Of course they have a very strong and capable team - which makes this even worse.
tgreenz400
09-17-2007, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by MOFO
Please?
Knowing the plays would not help them them at all? It would not provide an advantage to them????
Of course they have a very strong and capable team - which makes this even worse. Well they sure did kick the chargers *** pretty good while not cheating:chinese: Say what you want but i don't believe killing the defending AFC champions isn't luck, skill.
juanki
09-17-2007, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by MOFO
Please?
Knowing the plays would not help them them at all? It would not provide an advantage to them????
Of course they have a very strong and capable team - which makes this even worse.
they where recording hand signals of 3 defensive coaches, and then board where the down and yard is. i saw this on the nfl network, the actual recordings that the leage got. (this againts the jets). all the teams do this.
this will not help the team more, as like all the teams record the games, because the plays(defense and offense) are sent at the same time, they can change the play on the line, but so the other team ... the problems was that they where recording it on field level.
tgreenz400
09-17-2007, 06:38 PM
^^^yep...this is a little thing blown way outta proportion.
Originally posted by juanki
they where recording hand signals of 3 defensive coaches, and then board where the down and yard is. i saw this on the nfl network, the actual recordings that the leage got. (this againts the jets). all the teams do this.
this will not help the team more, as like all the teams record the games, because the plays(defense and offense) are sent at the same time, they can change the play on the line, but so the other team ... the problems was that they where recording it on field level.
No, no they don't all do this.
On Sept. 6, three days before this year's opener against the Jets, the NFL sent a memo to head coaches and general managers. In it, Ray Anderson, the league's executive vice president of football operations, wrote: "Videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."
...and yet, they still continued with their ways KNOWING it was against league rules.
Everyone is missing the point here... oh well... I guess that is today's society... just shrug and move on... pathetic! Everyones opinion has been either "they all do it" or "who cares" - I guess you don't have to follow any rules if other's might be doing it...
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3024271
...this is not over nor is it blown out of proportion.
Originally posted by tgreenz400
Well they sure did kick the chargers *** pretty good while not cheating:chinese: Say what you want but i don't believe killing the defending AFC champions isn't luck, skill.
LOL - I NEVER said they were not a good team and capable of winning games!!! Why would a team such as the Pat's clearly and knowingly break the rules??? That says alot for their character and coaching staff - huh?
They are still cheaters and will always be known as that.
Originally posted by MOFO
Anyone care to discuss?
If and when they are found guilty, I hope the league comes down on them - hard ! :grr:
I've read many comments from around the league and it seems everyone has the same response "...everytime we played them, it seemed they were always one step ahead of us..."
I guess now we know why...
So much for the dynasty team of this decade... maybe they can join Bond's with a nice asterisk next to their win column! :o
emmmm kinky
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