Honda TRX 700 XX vs. Raptor 700

[yAmAhA-rIdEr155]

Anyone that know's anything about the new Honda that thinks they can tell me something different besides the Raptor 700 being the best needs to say something.

have you read any of the posts on the new 700xx...it has not been welcomed by even the hardest of honda fans...it is not an impressive quad...honda had their head up their you know whats with this one...

[yAmAhA-rIdEr155]

nah i havent been to em yet

[bossman525]

the raptor will eat that machine's lunch. i think it will be to slow to get out of even it's own way.

[WoofersInc]

The Honda is coming with IRS rear end. It is also substantially heavier as the listed weight for it is 508 LBS. Unless power is up big time on the Honda there is no way it will keep up with the Raptor. The IRS rear doesn't impress me either. It is ok for slow technical stuff but for high speed desert riding or dunes it has it's drawbacks.

[redrocker]

I think the honda eng. started working
at yamaha a few years back as you can
see by everything yamaha makes
it's too bad because I used to be
a honda guy

[jrwisehart]

I really dont think you can compare them.

the raptor is built to be mainly a duner

the 700xx is suppose to be more of a trail bike

[yAmAhA-rIdEr155]

thanks for the posts

[MoRaptor02]

Originally posted by jrwisehart
I really dont think you can compare them.

the raptor is built to be mainly a duner

the 700xx is suppose to be more of a trail bike

WHAT??? The Raptor is the best trail bike ive owned. The Raptor was not built for the dunes. Who knows what that 700xx is suppose to be for.

[RaptorLover]

I DON'T KNOW WHY I'M WASTING MY TIME POSTING ABOUT A HONDA , BUT HERE GOES ....

TRX700XX8 Metallic Black/Silver $7,899.00
Metallic Black/Red $7,899.00

The TRX700XX re-defines the Sport category of ATVs with a whole new level of confidence, comfort and high performance. With double-wishbone Independent Rear Suspension (IRS), a unique centered chain drive system, and a fuel-injected 686cc engine making monster torque, the TRX700XX is truly the new Sport ATV "King of the Hill."
Unique Features:
All-new 686cc SOHC liquid-cooled fuel-injected four-valve single-cylinder four-stroke engine.
Double-wishbone Independent Rear Suspension (IRS) with tuned sway-bar.
Centered chain final drive system.
In-gear starting in Forward or easy-to-use Reverse.
Piggy-back rear shocks with adjustable pre-load.
Dual-spring front shocks with adjustable pre-load.
11-inch diameter rear rims with removable mud scrapers.
Radical new-style bodywork.
Available colors are Metallic Black / Silver and Metallic Black / Red.
Engine/Drivetrain
686cc SOHC, four-stroke engine generates the highest peak output in its class.
Liquid cooling provides consistent engine operating temperature in extreme conditions for maximum power and long engine life.
PGM fuel injection system with 44mm throttle body for excellent cold weather starting, lower maintainance and consistent performance at high altitudes (seeTechnology Section).
Gear-driven counterbalancer minimizes engine vibration for smooth, comfortable all-day riding.
Maintenance-free automatic cam-chain tensioner.
Closed crankcase vent system safeguards against engine oil contamination.
CD ignition with electronic advance.
USDA-qualified stainless steel muffler/spark arrester for quiet operation and maximum power.
Heavy-duty clutch stands up to sport-ATV demands.
High-efficiency dry-sump lubrication system features large-capacity oil tank for maximum engine cooling.
Rugged five-speed transmission with Reverse has components and ratios specifically designed for sport-ATV use.
Unique, centered transmission with its direct-line chain final drive allows optimum IRS double-wishbone A-arm design
Chassis/Suspension
Independent double-wishbone front suspension uses premium shock absorbers featuring dual single-rate springs that allow a lighter, more compact package with 9.36 inches of fully useable travel.
Independent double-wishbone rear suspension, made possible by the innovative centered chain drive system - features steel upper and aluminum lower A-arms. Using piggy-back reservoir shocks, the system provides 10.6 inches of fully useable travel.
Steel frame with removable sub-frame is extremely durable and strong.
Triple disc brakes for excellent stopping power and weight savings.
Special, large-diameter 11-inch aluminum rear wheels allow for ideal CV joint angles and A-arm lengths, resulting in superior power delivery, optimum suspension action and improved durability.
Radial tires with knobby pattern provide superb traction and cornering ability.
Durable, heavy-duty O-ring-sealed drive chain.
Easy-to-use dual snail-cam eccentric chain adjusters
Additional Features
Engine design meets current California Air Resources Board (CARB) off-road emission standards.
Convenient push-button electric starting.
Sculpted, plush seat provides excellent comfort and superb sport riding ergonomics.
New and uniquely aggressive sports styling.
Cowl-integrated headlight with dual 30-watt bulbs provides distinctive sport style and excellent function
Rear LED brakelight.
Easy access to washable two-stage large-capacity foam air filter.
Tough, polyethelene push bar up front and polypropelene rear A-arm protectors.
High Impact urethane protects frame and engine cases..
Rear mudguards with rigid footrests.
8 AH Maintenance-free battery.
Keyed ignition switch offers added security.
Simple to operate multi-function handlebar switch.
Left-hand operated parking brake.
Tool kit includes tire-pressure air gauge and owner's manual.
Transferable one-year, limited warranty; extended coverage available with a Honda Protection Plan.
Purchase of a new, previously unregistered Honda USA-certified unit by an individual retail user in the United States qualifies the owner for a one-year complimentary membership in the Honda Rider's Club of America® (HRCA®). Visit www.hrca.honda.com for details.

Model: TRX700XX
Engine Type: 686cc liquid-cooled SOHC dry-sump single-cylinder four-stroke
Bore and Stroke: 102mm x 84mm
Induction: Keihin PGM-FI with a 44mm throttle-body fuel injection system
Ignition: CD with electronic advance
Starter: Electric
Clutch: Manual
Transmission: ESP five-speed with Reverse
Driveline: O-ring-sealed #520 chain
Suspension Front: Independent double-wishbone with dual single-rate springs provide 9.3 inches of travel.
Rear: Independent double-wishbone with piggy-back reservoir shocks provide 10.6 inches of travel
Brakes Front: Dual hydraulic 174 mm discs
Rear: Single hydraulic 200mm disc
Tires Front: 21 X 7R 10
Rear: 22 X 9R 11
Length: 73.9 inches
Width: 46.3 inches
Height: 45.4 inches
Seat Height: 33 inches
Ground Clearance: 10.5 inches
Wheelbase: 50.0 inches
Turning Radius: 8.5 feet
Fuel Capacity: 3 gallons
Colors: Metallic Black/Silver, Metallic Black / Red
Curb Weight*: 508 pounds

[RaptorLover]

The TOPIC says Honda 700 vs. Raptor 700 , my opinion is that , the 700xx , wil be a waste of time and money , it's way to heavy , and I don't think it have nearly the power that the Yamaha have , IRS - We people here in South-Afrika don't really like IRS , if it was a solid rear axle it would have been a bit better.... BUT thats just all what I THINK .....

Originally posted by RaptorLover
The TOPIC says Honda 700 vs. Raptor 700 , my opinion is that , the 700xx , wil be a waste of time and money , it's way to heavy , and I don't think it have nearly the power that the Yamaha have , IRS - We people here in South-Afrika don't really like IRS , if it was a solid rear axle it would have been a bit better.... BUT thats just all what I THINK .....


wow, in one post you have repeated what almost every one has said in other threads on this...even the die hard honda people agree with that. there is much disappointment about this new "great" atv. it is def. a let down

[roc64]

Originally posted by jrwisehart
I really dont think you can compare them.

the raptor is built to be mainly a duner

the 700xx is suppose to be more of a trail bike
That may be the STUPIDEST statement I have ever heard anyone say about the Raptor!!!!:rolleyes: Get a clue!

[wolfpack13]

No one here has rode it, or even seen the beast in person. How come so many can give a opinion with such little knowlege about the object?

Not trying to be an @$$ here but I don't really think that it was directed at the Raptor.

Originally posted by wolfpack13

Not trying to be an @$$ here but I don't really think that it was directed at the Raptor.


that is why all of us honda guys hate it, we have been wanting something that is directed directly at the raptor, but instead honda gave us this tank.

between this adn the starting issues i have on my 450r. i can honestly say, i am no longer a die hard honda guy. i will consider and purchase another brand for my next quad. i have bought my last honda for a while

[yAmAhA-rIdEr155]

i hate it also, they should work on the body stlye a little more

[cjkranz]

and just FYI, the raptor 700R is a GREAT dune quad. Of all the atvs I have had over the years (>25) this is my favorite dune quad yet...

[yAmAhA-rIdEr155]

raptor 700 wins by a long shot in my opinion

[rbgnwa45]

Something that caught my eye was the high rear end ground clearance, this looks like a great trail quad! Don't come to any conclusions, even after the magazines review it. Wait till there are a few ride reviews! 21/front and 22/rear tires look nice too! Why would Honda copy the raptor? I'd like Honda to do it's own thing! The more I look at it the more I want it.

[pred174]

Im pretty sure there is a new king of the hill and it isn't a honda or yamaha....

[atvRiDa400ex]

Originally posted by pred174
Im pretty sure there is a new king of the hill and it isn't a honda or yamaha....

who?? polaris??:rolleyes: ktm?? maybe:scary:

[yAmAhA-rIdEr155]

no one makes a better trail bike than honda or yamaha

[pred174]

outlaw 525s, test drove one at the dealer a week ago and its got plenty more get up and go compared to 525irs...yeah the ktm will be faster but if your just gonna be riding the dunes you would be better off with the outlaw....u could put that 2k that u save towards bbk and put some shocks on it for that price

[250r4life]

Originally posted by pred174
outlaw 525s, test drove one at the dealer a week ago and its got plenty more get up and go compared to 525irs...yeah the ktm will be faster but if your just gonna be riding the dunes you would be better off with the outlaw....u could put that 2k that u save towards bbk and put some shocks on it for that price

oh brother...

[redrocker]

They should have never stopped
building the atc 70!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THE FRONT END BODY STYLING HAS TO BE THE UGLIEST/DUMBEST DESIGN EVER.

WHAT THE H*** IS THIS THING SUPPOSED TO BE? REMINDS ME OF THE POS VFORCE.

[QuadManiac]

Don't go overboard with the weight issue... 700XX wieght is stated as fully wet, Raptor as fully dry. Real difference in weight is more like 50 lbs.

[TheNewn]

Originally posted by QuadManiac
Don't go overboard with the weight issue... 700XX wieght is stated as fully wet, Raptor as fully dry. Real difference in weight is more like 50 lbs.

No kidding, everyone is going on and on about how much of a tank it is. They for some reason dont look at the little thing that says "curb weight" next to the number. Full fluids, full gas tank.

Its not *that* much heavier than the raptor, I'm sure it'll be a perfect quad for someone who rides woods a lot, with a lot of mud.

I'm sure it wont be that hard to ditch the ugly looking front end with something aftermarket as well. I think it has the potential to be a great quad.

*I* just wouldnt buy it. :ermm:

but thin about it this way, who is mos tlikely going to be buying this big machine...the larger guy that might not fit as well on any other bikes. so before you even add in the 50 lbs(which really is a lot) of the bike, the rider may already be at an 50 or 70 lb disadvantage...

to my point, i am a smaller guy @ 152 lbs, a few of my friends who weigh significantly more than i do with essentially a twin bike(one was on a 400ex, and one is on a 450r/ltr450) would always lose in a drag race/distance race. they were somewhere between 80-100 lbs heavier. the only difference in the bikes being the brand of exhaust, every thing was almost exactly the same...

the bigger guy may not always be the one buying the bike, but it will be a good portion of the time

[MoRaptor02]

My Raptor 700 is 480 curb weight. So theres not that much differance.

[QuadManiac]

Originally posted by MoRaptor02
My Raptor 700 is 480 curb weight. So theres not that much differance.

BINGO!

[MoRaptor02]

BINGO WHAT ???? Did I win something or what? LOL

[QuadManiac]

You won the prize for logical thinking. It's not worth much though.

[MoRaptor02]

Damn it. I thought I won something. Yeah I see people talking about the weight of different 4 wheelers, usually without saying anything. But you know Honda is making a run at the big bore yamaha finally. Im glad tehy are. I dont think its much of a run but its a start i guess. LOL

actually if you see the 700xx in different views or in action its really impressive. at 1st at the unveiling i though what is honda doing but once you see all angles its an 05-07 400ex plastics with almost a raptor grill sitting below. I think Honda needs to change a little bit but i look at it as honda made its 1st big bore sport qaud so give it time. Honda basically started sport quads with the 400ex and then the sport really grew with 4 strokes. As of now though I deffinately like the raptor way better. IRS doesnt impress me much and seems to take away the sporty look or thought of it IMO. Raptor is nice and alway has been.

[TheNewn]

I'm sure the 700XX will be great for Woods/leisurely trail riding. Thats about it.
I'd say there's definitely a market for that kind of thing. Oh well, *I* wont buy it.

And Honda by no means 'started' sport quads with the 400EX. Believe it or not the 250R/Banshee/LT250 and others were around way before the 400ex ever was. Honda may have revitalized the sport industry, but they're falling behind now. In my opinion.

[laplap]

Originally posted by MoRaptor02
My Raptor 700 is 480 curb weight. So theres not that much differance. WHAT DO YOU HAVE 27 INCH TIRES OR SOMETHING? WET ITS NO MORE THEN 440 WITH HAND GAURDS/FULL SKIDS/GNCC'S

[MoRaptor02]

No I just have dual LTE's, 20in Razr2 on baja rims on the rear. prm summit bumper and desert grab bar. Thats it. 480lbs. I didnt think it would weight that much either. But it did.

[QuadManiac]

Honestly, how many ppl. besides Mo, have actually weighed thier rides?

[250r4life]

Originally posted by QuadManiac
Honestly, how many ppl. besides Mo, have actually weighed thier rides?

not many

[LotusPosition]

480 lbs curb weight? I would seriously question the scale's accuracy.

[homer]

480? With Razr2's and baja wheels I would figure it would be more like 500. I think ALOT of people would be suprised if they weighed their machine ready to run. So many people compare advertized weights like they are gospel and act like 10-20 pounds are going to make a big difference. I bet you could take 95% of the people on these forums, attach a 25 pound weight to the bottom of their quad without them knowing, and they wouldn't be able to tell a difference. The other 5% are pro's and they actually push their quads to the limit and they would be able to tell a difference, but still be able to ride it almost as fast.

The exception to this is of course drag racing and neither of these quads was ment for drag racing in stock form anyway.

[MoRaptor02]

Originally posted by homer
480? With Razr2's and baja wheels I would figure it would be more like 500. I think ALOT of people would be suprised if they weighed their machine ready to run. So many people compare advertized weights like they are gospel and act like 10-20 pounds are going to make a big difference. I bet you could take 95% of the people on these forums, attach a 25 pound weight to the bottom of their quad without them knowing, and they wouldn't be able to tell a difference. The other 5% are pro's and they actually push their quads to the limit and they would be able to tell a difference, but still be able to ride it almost as fast.

The exception to this is of course drag racing and neither of these quads was ment for drag racing in stock form anyway.

You lose 1 hp for every 7 pounds. Thats why my fat *** doesnt drag race much. LOL

[QuadManiac]

Originally posted by MoRaptor02
You lose 1 hp for every 7 pounds. Thats why my fat *** doesnt drag race much. LOL

What part of physics does this formula come from? I'm certainly unfamiliar with it, after a pretty good engineering education and career. Additional weight reduces acceleration and there's no direct relationship with power required unless you define either the straight line acceleration desired or the angle of the incline you must climb.

with the relationship, as described, at 7 lbs / hp... a semi-typical quad and rider at 550 lbs would be able to go nowhere without at least 78 hp. You're mixing apples and oranges.

Now, if you're implying that by adding 1 hp to the stock output, you can add 7 lbs and still accelerate at the same rate, there may well be some credence to that... In that case, my 250 lb lard butt is screwed, just like yours, lol, so ignore the rest of my statement!

[MoRaptor02]

Originally posted by QuadManiac
What part of physics does this formula come from? I'm certainly unfamiliar with it, after a pretty good engineering education and career. Additional weight reduces acceleration and there's no direct relationship with power required unless you define either the straight line acceleration desired or the angle of the incline you must climb.

with the relationship, as described, at 7 lbs / hp... a semi-typical quad and rider at 550 lbs would be able to go nowhere without at least 78 hp. You're mixing apples and oranges.

Now, if you're implying that by adding 1 hp to the stock output, you can add 7 lbs and still accelerate at the same rate, there may well be some credence to that... In that case, my 250 lb lard butt is screwed, just like yours, lol, so ignore the rest of my statement!

Thats just what ive always heard 1hp per 7 pounds. Never really thought about it that much. But I do know That I can do anything I want to my Rappy 700 and im still not going to beat a 120 pounder on the same bike, or even a lower HP bike. But damn it I keep trying. LOL

[QuadManiac]

We need to inhale a whole lot of helium.

[jesshamner]

Honestly, I think Honda was trying to compete with the Renegade. They are both big bore sport/utility inspired trail quads with comfort and performance in mind. Emphasis on comfort.

[ATVX4]

Originally posted by speedyquad
that is why all of us honda guys hate it, we have been wanting something that is directed directly at the raptor, but instead honda gave us this tank.
i can honestly say, i am no longer a die hard honda guy. i will consider and purchase another brand for my next quad. i have bought my last honda for a while

As a die hard honda guy also, I somewhat agree. I have rode sport quads my whole life. I have been waiting for Honda's answer to the Raptor, and I am not impressed. We wont even go into the issue of how it looks. That red/white/black SE raptor is SWEET!

However, At 43 years old and a lil overweight, It might be an ideal sport quad for me. A better ride, decent power, 5-speed. For now, I am going to wait untill it comes out and I hear some feedback about it. I just sold my 04 450R and I miss it. My 400ex as great as it is, is not cuttin it! Maybe a 416 kit and some shocks! LOL

[Ogener]

Now, if you're implying that by adding 1 hp to the stock output, you can add 7 lbs and still accelerate at the same rate, there may well be some credence to that... In that case, my 250 lb lard butt is screwed, just like yours, lol, so ignore the rest of my statement!

I think thats what that statement means. If you lose 7lbs its like gaining 1hp ,you dont actually "gain" more hp but it feels like it. Or if you gain 7lbs you need 1hp to accelerate the same.

[#17YFZRACER]

369.5lbs wet:D take that :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:

[07trx400ex]

The Honda 700XX will be making 7 more hp than than the Raptor 700r.

[MadDog56]

Originally posted by 07trx400ex
The Honda 700XX will be making 7 more hp than than the Raptor 700r.

And where does that number come from?

[RaptorLover]

I still thing Raptor is better than the Honda , and will never buy the honda .... Raptor is a great quad , and I think Honda will need about 2 years or more to get the Honda to the same level as a Raptor or a Renegade !! My Opinion !

[TheNewn]

Originally posted by RaptorLover
I still thing Raptor is better than the Honda , and will never buy the honda .... Raptor is a great quad , and I think Honda will need about 2 years or more to get the Honda to the same level as a Raptor or a Renegade !! My Opinion !

How do you know? It's not even released yet, for all anyone knows, it could blow the raptor/renegade out of the water.

And as for the other post, Where does the guy get his information from saying the 700xx will have 7 more hp than the raptor stock? I wave the BS flag on that, and if i had two of them, i'd wave them both.

[Evasiveone]

Originally posted by TheNewn


And as for the other post, Where does the guy get his information from saying the 700xx will have 7 more hp than the raptor stock? I wave the BS flag on that, and if i had two of them, i'd wave them both.

He is basing this off of the California Air Resource Board numbers where they test the engines for California emmisions. The Raptor 700 is putting out 46.9 HP at the crank and the new 700xx is putting out 53 hp at the crank for a difference of 6.1 crank HP difference. The Rappy is running 9.1:1 compression and the 700xx is running 10.0:1 compression.

[reconranger]

I couldn't take the time to read all the replies to this post, so excuse me if this has already been said.....

It is a mistake to compare these two machines! They are both 700cc....that is about all they have in common!!! Having IRS, puts the Honda in an entirely different class than the SRA Raptor....making it an apples vs oranges comparison.

The one thing the Honda has going for it is that it has a very high tech engine....along the lines of the current crop of 450's. It has a little slipper piston with low reciprocating weight...this isn't just a warmed over and bored out XR650 engine! This thing should really scream!!! It should be more of a rever, and not so much a torquer like the Raptor.

Personally, I don't have any need for IRS, and the machine is going to be 150 pounds heavier than my 450R....so it doesn't look very promising....at least not on paper.

Take this engine and put it in a light SRA frame (it would need a new bottom end, as the current engine is center-line drive), and I might be first in line.....

[TheNewn]

The Raptor is made to be a great trail bike, the same intention that honda has for this 700xx i imagine. How are they not comparable? They are both made for the same thing, trails, which most people do. It wouldn't make sense to NOT compare two quads that were intended for the same general purpose.

[reconranger]

An 800 pound utility is made for the "trails", so now we are going to say that thing is in the same class as the Raptor too????

You are certainly welcome to compare their performance out on the "trails"....uh once someone has actually ridden one...which noone has so far so we don't actually know what kind of quad it actually is....but nothing changes the fact that they are an apple and an orange!!!

[TheNewn]

Without going to a stupid extreme, which seems to be popular, i'll try to explain myself further.

The 700xx IS a sport quad 2 wheel drive, chain drive, with IRS. Just like the Outlaw 525 IRS. Both are great (as far as i can tell in one case) attempts at creating a comfortable, fast trail quad.

The Raptor is designed to be a trail quad as well. Also a 2 wheel drive, chain driven sport quad. The Raptor and the XX have ONE key difference, IRS vs SRA. And if you're a fast trail rider looking for a nice sport quad they BOTH fall into the same category.

Just like people compare the Outlaw IRS's to the Raptor, i think the XX compares as well.

I wont even bother with the dumb 800 pound utility comment.

[reconranger]

You know darn well that the point of the original post was some adolescent "Which Is Faster" kind of post...mostly I was reacting to the stupididy of that seeing absolutely nobody has ridden the Honda. All we are all doing is mental masterbation about what it looks like on paper....which doesn't mean much.

Got to say for what I ride, the machine looks like it will be useless and way to heavy...just like an IRS Outlaw, but at least that is an apples to apples comparison!

[MadDog56]

Ahh good old reconranger, good to see you. On spec the machines are not in the same class, I agree with you 100% on that one. The 700xx matches up much better with the 525 outlaw.





But when someone starts shopping for a new trail quad, they're going to be comparing the 700R and the 700XX. The same guy is going to be looking at both machines and wondering "which should I buy?" So while your argument makes sense on paper, in the real world it is important how these two stack up against each other.

[reconranger]

There is a replacement for displacement....and it is engine design!

May issue of DirtWheels, big bore shootout between the Raptor 700 and the 525's....dyno chart on page 58. The KTM525 absolutely kicks the Raptors butt:

Raptor- 41.4 max hp @ 6000 rpm...Raptor hp totally checks out early after that!

KTM- 44.6 max hp, but most important is that the KTM makes that horsepower at 8000 rpm....2000 rpm higher than the Raptor!!!

So what's my point here (besides making you Raptor owner's cringe)??? The Honda engine design is like the 450/525's: oversquare with a little slipper piston and low reciprocating weight. This engine isn't just a warmed over old school XR650 bored out a little. This engine is going to absolutely scream!!!

The problem I see for Honda, is that they put this engine in a rather heavy IRS frame that will probably have lots of body roll and is going to have limited specialized applications....like rutted eastern trails and rocky technical stuff (places where most folks are just going to ride a 4X4 instead!). No doubt as MadDog has pointed out, folks will buy it anyway just because of the number "700".....totally oblivious of the frame design.....

[MadDog56]

Hey no doubt Honda will have built a great engine, just too bad that they're three quarters of a decade late to the big bore market. :blah:

If they'd have stepped up and made an SRA version that was almost as good 5 years ago I'd be riding red right now.

[xrdrsux]

what do you have maddog

[MadDog56]

Originally posted by xrdrsux
what do you have maddog

Just an old beat up 2003 660 Raptor.

[TheNewn]

Originally posted by reconranger
There is a replacement for displacement....and it is engine design!

May issue of DirtWheels, big bore shootout between the Raptor 700 and the 525's....dyno chart on page 58. The KTM525 absolutely kicks the Raptors butt:

Raptor- 41.4 max hp @ 6000 rpm...Raptor hp totally checks out early after that!

KTM- 44.6 max hp, but most important is that the KTM makes that horsepower at 8000 rpm....2000 rpm higher than the Raptor!!!

So what's my point here (besides making you Raptor owner's cringe)??? The Honda engine design is like the 450/525's: oversquare with a little slipper piston and low reciprocating weight. This engine isn't just a warmed over old school XR650 bored out a little. This engine is going to absolutely scream!!!

The problem I see for Honda, is that they put this engine in a rather heavy IRS frame that will probably have lots of body roll and is going to have limited specialized applications....like rutted eastern trails and rocky technical stuff (places where most folks are just going to ride a 4X4 instead!). No doubt as MadDog has pointed out, folks will buy it anyway just because of the number "700".....totally oblivious of the frame design.....

You ARE comparing an XC RACE bike to a TRAIL bike. The YFZ has almost as much power as the Raptor does stock as well, its a RACE bike. The Raptor's motor is capable of more power in the aftermarket than the KTM's.

The Raptor has lower compression, more restricted exhaust and intake, and a mild cam compared to the KTM.

You give both of them the Big 3, and the Raptor will make more power. with the lower compression and the mild cam.


Mad Dog made the perfect point i was trying to make. When people go shopping for a new big bore sport quad for fast trail riding, they're going to compare this new Honda to the Raptor.

It all comes down to how much it costs if its going to sell or not. People are buying the Outlaw's. They'll buy Honda's version of it if the price is right.

[xrdrsux]

Originally posted by MadDog56
Just an old beat up 2003 660 Raptor.
do you have the 660R or the 660 RR

[reconranger]

I have also always wondered why Honda didn't immediately put the XR650 engine in a quad......

But in retrospect, what would be the point when they already had the CRF450X on the drawing board. The 450's are beating the 650's in the big desert endurance races like Baja....so I now totally see what Honda's point was.....do more with less!!!!

It is clear that on the high preformance machines, Honda has put all its eggs in the little slipper piston basket....and they have carried this along to this 700.

[MadDog56]

Originally posted by xrdrsux
do you have the 660R or the 660 RR

There is no 660RR, the only other model Yamaha ever released of the 660R was the LE models, which were identical to the regular models with the exception of a different color scheme and graphics.

[xrdrsux]

Do you really want me to post the link of the 660 RR lmao

[MadDog56]

Originally posted by xrdrsux
Do you really want me to post the link of the 660 RR lmao

The model is and always was the 660R. Each year had it's own designation after the first "R".

2001 was YFM660RN
2002 was YFM660RP
2003 was YFM660RR
2004 was YFM660RS
2005 was YFM660RT

LE models were YFM660RLE* where * was the yearly designation.

YAMAHA uses the same letter designation for ALL ATVS produced for that model year, the letter doesn't have anything to do with any type of different or special edition within the same year.

There were changes in the 2002, 2004 and 2005 model years. The 2003 is identical to the 2002 model with the exception of the color schemes.

[xrdrsux]

?

[MadDog56]

Nice try, but that old trick has been played out.

Guess this is what I get for trying to participate in an intelligent discussion on this board.

[xrdrsux]

nope..just messin with ya MD. its been an epidemic.

[csr250r]

Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
actually if you see the 700xx in different views or in action its really impressive. at 1st at the unveiling i though what is honda doing but once you see all angles its an 05-07 400ex plastics with almost a raptor grill sitting below. I think Honda needs to change a little bit but i look at it as honda made its 1st big bore sport qaud so give it time. Honda basically started sport quads with the 400ex and then the sport really grew with 4 strokes. As of now though I deffinately like the raptor way better. IRS doesnt impress me much and seems to take away the sporty look or thought of it IMO. Raptor is nice and alway has been.

hey there... honda started sport quads with the 2 fiddy r, not the 400ex i would take an r over an ex anyday.

[TheNewn]

The 250R did not start the sport quad industry. It was not the first 250 2 stroke quad out, pretty sure that goes to the LT250r, Suzuki.

Suzuki probably 'started' high performance atv's. And honda REstarted it, with the 400EX.

[trailin'me]

i own a trx700 with a powercommander using my own map ..full exhaust...and an aluminum airbox i fabricated myself and no raptor yet can keep up with me on trails here in the riverbulffs. this beast whips *** in the sand ... hillclimb...jumps..and usable speed on course. while im climbing and my roost is flying all over the raptor behind me ..the raptor is getting high-centered on the rear axle ... oh yeah what is a rear axle for anyway?

i think the raptors would be better in a straight up dragrace on hardpack...as far as handling and sheer pleasure .. sorry raptor fanboys.

honestly ... i cant wait till i can find the right sized tires for this ... these oem tires are alright ...rather have some mudlites.

im not a honda or yamaha or anything fan ... i like good stuff. i honestly prefer my ninja ..and to go fast ...but again ..this trx700 is a brute.

[Krandall]

I'm sure the 700xx is fast I don't doubt it one bit. But... There's people racing the Raptor. I don't expect to see any 700xx's racing they have 2 things going against them.

IRS and the Weight.



As far as this:
i think the raptors would be better in a straight up dragrace on hardpack...as far as handling and sheer pleasure .. sorry raptor fanboys.

I'd be glad to race ya in the woods some time. my piece of crap raptor can hold it's own. :cool: it's MORE than pleasure riding it and handling is amazing.:D

[jesshamner]

Originally posted by Krandall
I'm sure the 700xx is fast I don't doubt it one bit. But... There's people racing the Raptor. I don't expect to see any 700xx's racing they have 2 things going against them.

IRS and the Weight.


All of the utes are heavy and people race those. Some even beat the raptors.

[Krandall]

I don't disagree, but the people racing the utes are doing it I'd guess for the 4wd option. I just ddno't see an advantage to the 700xx.

[jesshamner]

There may not be an advantage. There doesn't have to be. It would just be dumb for honda to sit back and not get into that market. I mean they were dumb enough to wait this long but still there is money to be had for them.

[Krandall]

Agreed. They'll make sales for sure on them. The die hard honda lovers have been waiting for a BB 2wd quad!

[trailin'me]

looking through these forums ..seems the 700xx's are already winning baja's and sanddrags. my personal preference is motox ... not into making mini-sprint cars that go around a 1/8 or 1/2 mile track. to each is their own though.

nobody can deny honda makes strong motors and good equipment ... 6 months - a year we will see who the king of the mountain really is.

im kinda excited to havea different machine which will probably cause many rules to change ... maybe even a new class of racing ...all i know at the end of the day... jump after jump after jump im in much better shape riding on this trx700 than i was on any solid rear axle machine.

lastly ...ill strongly say i am no fanboy of any brand ..but years and years of using atv's in the oilfield industry in the worst environments God ever created ...running some 12hrs a day / 7 days a week ..only the honda foreman stood the brutality ... 2nd was the yamaha kodiak.... not this es foreman ..but the original foreman 400 4x4

[RATPACK Z400]

the honda is only the most used quad in baja cause of FREE support to honda riders so you (if) not a high dollar raceteam would be retarded not to enter a honda product in baja. as far as the 700xx it has LOST every shootout its been in it lost to the700r in my opion and the outlaw neither of the test riders or mags have given it props.and have said the same the bodyroll,weight,no adjustment on rear shocks. it gets beat in hillclimbing (do 2 its weight), turns (excess bodyroll) and top heavy im sure,the wheels in rear are bigger than front also have affect on handling as well. to say it better than a raptor IS a premature statement for one and sra WILL out handle a irs period the irs IS more comfort in handling but not faster in handling dept.

[ghouck]

No matter what you think of the Honda, this will keep Yamaha on it's toes. If this thing does nothing else but to keep Yamaha thinking hard about future improvements to the Rappy, then It's OK in my book, even if I won't ever buy one (hardcore anti-honda guy here)

[scuzz]

Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
for one and sra WILL out handle a irs period the irs IS more comfort in handling but not faster in handling dept.

I believe that IRS is better on the trail or rocky conditions that will be beating the crap out of the rear swing arm on a 700r with it's 4.4 inches of ground clearance. So unless you guy larger ground clearance (in the way of larger tires) I think you'll be either hung up or using your rear skid more than you would want.

Baja...blahblah. The fact is that almost all off road racer trucks and buggies use IRS, the only ones who use SRA would be the stock class. It will take a while to perfect. But I do see this as a better alternative to SRA.

Don't get me wrong, I felt *just* like you guys about IRS before I got it. All it took was one landing on an off-camber landing and going down a technical descent with huge rocks. My SRA buddies had to dig their handlbars out of the trail face and I just leaned and went through. (i.e. HUGE rock on the righ which makes your quad lean to the left and pushing the bars into the object on the left side of the trail. I trail ride 80% and sand ride 20% of the time. The sand riding and the extra ground clearance is nice too as my buddies would lose momentum dragging their skidplates up rutted trails. For these trails I could litterally go up with only one hand on the bars. (gotta give it gas)

Now, let's talk about it's faults.

OMG - body roll. Yep it does. Doing donuts always means doing it on three wheels with the inside wheel hoping to get a piece of something to hold on to. What could the aftermarket do to improve that? Someone could make a stiffer sway bar. The stock one looks like it's the bigger brother of something you would use to unlock your door on your car when you locked the keys in it.

Looks - I'm not a big fan (either) of the front end. It looks loke a manta ray or something out of the 60's Batman show.

Weight - Yeah it's heavier than most (thanks to the VForce) 700 quads out there. I'm willing to bet that once the 525 IRS goes to FI that the added weight of the fuel injection will bring the weights a little closer. It would be cool if Honda would grow some balls and make an aluminum fram like the Raptors. (well, back half anyway) All this stuff ads up Honda!

[Krandall]

It would be cool if Honda would grow some balls and make an aluminum fram like the Raptors. (well, back half anyway) All this stuff ads up Honda.


To say something FOR honda keeping the steel frame.

I'm a raptorsource.com member. and I've seen quite a few people break/snap their rear subframes from doing simple things as pulling a wheelie and 12 o'clocking it....

Mine is slightly bent from a wheely and hitting the grab bar... Sucks.... a nice $350 replacement. :rolleyes: :eek2:

[scuzz]

Originally posted by Krandall



To say something FOR honda keeping the steel frame.

I'm a raptorsource.com member. and I've seen quite a few people break/snap their rear subframes from doing simple things as pulling a wheelie and 12 o'clocking it....

Mine is slightly bent from a wheely and hitting the grab bar... Sucks.... a nice $350 replacement. :rolleyes: :eek2:

Iteresting! I didn't know that. My buddy with the 700r has a replacement whole frame just in case.

[jesshamner]

An aluminum fram won't necessarily be that much lighter. Our Cannondale frames are built pretty beefy and rarely snap or even crack, but they're not ultra light by any means. If the manufacturers don't build frames like Cannondale did, you get what people are getting with the newer models with hybrid alum/moly and all aluminum frames = weak. Not to mention...you're talking about all that suspension flex of the IRS and then you want to throw it on a stiff Aluminum frame.


Looks like rear axle to me. http://cgmedia.daimlerchrysler.com/dcxms/assets/libraryImages/MoparBaja1000.jpg
http://www.desertracing.com/news/2008/douglas_amsoil_corr_truck2008.jpg
http://www.lighttruckbiz.com/images/article/1197477021826_GA%20Pro2.jpg

[scuzz]

<------- was wrong about the IRS on baja trucks. What was I thinking?

Sorry guys.

[Krandall]

Holy large picture batman.

:eek2: :eek2:

[jesshamner]

Yeah sorry about that. Posting that is probably worse than being wrong about trophy trucks having IRS. Sorry I got carried away. :o

[RATPACK Z400]

mark my words honda will make two versions an irs & sra when sales aren,t as good as the raptor! and there,s one more thing somebody bought up improvement for 700xx there cant be, you cant widen,only thing I see is shocks in rear and swaybar but that will improve it on a small scale. its probably needs frame & rear redesign ,and smaller rear wheels in imo. honda,s are great products its just imo that this 700xx is NOT what most diehard SPORT riders wanted. compare the 700xx to a 450 racequad or 700r is like comparing an enduro 600 to a CBR 600 in handling.

[rbgnwa45]

Is there a huge advantage for ground clearance? How often do Raptors get hung up in the woods? IRS would make it a comfier and more tractable ride, those tires are also nice and tall. The Honda looks like the sportiest trail quad atm.

[trailin'me]

Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
mark my words honda will make two versions an irs & sra when sales aren,t as good as the raptor! and there,s one more thing somebody bought up improvement for 700xx there cant be, you cant widen,only thing I see is shocks in rear and swaybar but that will improve it on a small scale. its probably needs frame & rear redesign ,and smaller rear wheels in imo. honda,s are great products its just imo that this 700xx is NOT what most diehard SPORT riders wanted. compare the 700xx to a 450 racequad or 700r is like comparing an enduro 600 to a CBR 600 in handling.

you can widen it and I have... there are rear a-arms in production right now as we speak ... and presently there are raptors in stores everywhere ... cant hardly find a 700xx where i live.... theyre all sold.

the issue you talk of raptors hanging up ... very simply put..they cannot go where a 700xx can .. they lack the power, torque, and ground clearance necessary for "real" trail riding.

[ghouck]

The stores have Raptors because they know it's an item that will sell, and keep them in stock. The Honda dealers here won't even bother to get the 700 until they see more interest. Everyone I know that has looked into one changed their mind as soon as they test drive it. I know one person with one and he openly regrets getting it. This another example of Honda taking a road less traveled, and nobody following. Your "power and torque" statement shows you either don't know what you're talking about or have to resort to dishonesty to try and 'win' an argument. If you'd realize the only way to 'win' an argument is to not worry about being right or wrong, but rather try and come out of it SMARTER, you'd be doing well.

[trailin'me]

Originally posted by ghouck
The stores have Raptors because they know it's an item that will sell, and keep them in stock. The Honda dealers here won't even bother to get the 700 until they see more interest. Everyone I know that has looked into one changed their mind as soon as they test drive one. I know one person with one and he openly regrets getting it. This another example of Honda taking a road less traveled, and nobody following.

thats kind of a dumb comment ... for every item on the planet i can find you someone that regrets getting that item. I really and truly doubt your comment about test riding a xx ..ive NEVER been to an atv dealer that would let me take an atv off the parking lot.... of any brand.

there isnt a raptor that could hold a candle to a xx in cross country racing... hell there isnt a quad period that can hold a candle to the xx in cross country or baja ..unless its a 450r... motorcross is old school .. and soon wont have the fanbase and following the gncc or baja circuits have...

this really is an issue of more of the same tired **** ..or evolution of a sport and what direction it is going in the future.

motorcycles will always have a popular following of motox ... quads were meant for another purpose ..and we are just getting to the surface of that now.

the only reason i could think of someone regretting getting an xx is because they may have a friend like you that is so single-minded they try to push their opinions on others to the point of making them feel inferior because they have something you don't agree with.

i like raptors ..but they are old and tired .. unreliable, and prone to breakdowns and general breakage ...

bring your raptor to wherever Im at ..or ill bring my xx to wherever you are ..and we can race all the way to the next town 20-30 miles away and id bet the farm id already be powerwashing my xx and on my second beer by the time you finished ..if you even did. that is a fact.

[rbgnwa45]

Sorry, but..

Any baja championship is won by the rider alone. At those distances, it's not even 95% rider it's like 99%, so stop swearing up and down that the XX is anything better than a bunch of steel.

Also what if he found a road and you found a forrest during that race? You can bet the farm he'd drink 2 beers, wash his quad, then go out looking for you, while you get there and think you've won when you see him coming back. Don't be so arrogant, while telling people they're being arrogant.

[TheNewn]

Originally posted by trailin'me
thats kind of a dumb comment ... for every item on the planet i can find you someone that regrets getting that item. I really and truly doubt your comment about test riding a xx ..ive NEVER been to an atv dealer that would let me take an atv off the parking lot.... of any brand.

there isnt a raptor that could hold a candle to a xx in cross country racing... hell there isnt a quad period that can hold a candle to the xx in cross country or baja ..unless its a 450r... motorcross is old school .. and soon wont have the fanbase and following the gncc or baja circuits have...

this really is an issue of more of the same tired **** ..or evolution of a sport and what direction it is going in the future.

motorcycles will always have a popular following of motox ... quads were meant for another purpose ..and we are just getting to the surface of that now.

the only reason i could think of someone regretting getting an xx is because they may have a friend like you that is so single-minded they try to push their opinions on others to the point of making them feel inferior because they have something you don't agree with.

i like raptors ..but they are old and tired .. unreliable, and prone to breakdowns and general breakage ...

bring your raptor to wherever Im at ..or ill bring my xx to wherever you are ..and we can race all the way to the next town 20-30 miles away and id bet the farm id already be powerwashing my xx and on my second beer by the time you finished ..if you even did. that is a fact.


I disagree with just about everything you said. Im not going to go into huge detail and write the bible here but i'll just say a couple things.

Our local dealership will not carry any 700xx's because they don believe they will sell, you have to order one, and no one has. Yet they have sold and carry Raptor 700s from day one. Its not an opinion, its a fact.

A 450R will hold a candle to a xx in cross country but the raptor wont?....suffice to say i disagree.

Some people are single minded, you're right about that.

[trailin'me]

Originally posted by TheNewn
I disagree with just about everything you said. Im not going to go into huge detail and write the bible here but i'll just say a couple things.

Our local dealership will not carry any 700xx's because they don believe they will sell, you have to order one, and no one has. Yet they have sold and carry Raptor 700s from day one. Its not an opinion, its a fact.

A 450R will hold a candle to a xx in cross country but the raptor wont?....suffice to say i disagree.

Some people are single minded, you're right about that.

i dunno man ... baja is the king of the hill with xcountry racing .. didnt see a raptor even entered...wonder why. thats how i concluded a 450r can hold a candle .


it is the machine ... you cant beat a corvette with a mini ...

i dont care how good of a rider you are ..a machine always has its limits ..and arider is only as good as his machine will let him run. the only time it comes down to a rider is if all the machines are exactly the same (like nascar or f1/indy racing).

im not arrogant ... im saying truly in a 30-40 mile race your raptors wont make it ... they just wont whether it be mechanical break down, rider fatigue, or a whole slew of other issues... and why? because they were not designed for it where this xx was ... which leads me back to the machine.

look ..im not telling you to buy anything ... ride what yo uwant ..anyone can chose to ignore facts and justify whatever they want ..but while you are fixing stupid things on a raptor because it cant take the punishment of a real long distance race ... ill be washing my xx and drinking a beer.

one thing does stick out though... if your dealer doesnt have any and they have to order them ... how were you able to go ride one at the dealer and decide it was not good? just curious. i smell another hater just talking ****. ill call the dealer myself.

not all quads sell well in every region.

[TheNewn]

my LOCAL dealer does not have any.

I left my town, and flew down south and visited another dealer in California.

[scuzz]

Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
mark my words honda will make two versions an irs & sra when sales aren,t as good as the raptor!


I seriously doubt that.


Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
s are great products its just imo that this 700xx is NOT what most diehard SPORT riders wanted. compare the 700xx to a 450 racequad or 700r is like comparing an enduro 600 to a CBR 600 in handling.

I believe it does VERY well at what it was intended for as does the Outlaw IRS.

[GE4x4]

My dealer only has one 700xx on the floor, but it's the same one they got in the fall. They have not sold one 700xx yet and have near $1400 off the one on the floor, yet still sits there. I live in NH which is very ruff trails and IRS is a must. But this quad just isn't catching on. On the other hand, all there 08 or older Outlaws are gone, and there just getting there 09's. So the Outlaws are doing fine.

As far as Baja goes, you won't see them on the 700 next year. The only reason they raced it was part of there contract with Honda. The Rincon won it also, yet that didn't get raced again.

[scuzz]

That's not the case in the South. Ive seen several at my riding spots and the dealer where I bought mine at in Dallas has sold several.

[ghouck]

I really and truly doubt your comment about test riding a xx

Of course you don't believe me, it's easier to accuse someone of dishonesty than it is to provide proof.


ive NEVER been to an atv dealer that would let me take an atv off the parking lot

First, whoever said anything about leaving the site? Second, I've NEVER had a dealer NOT let me test ride one. I could understand if you were a minor or did n't look like you were serious, or able to be serious about a purchase, bet every dealer I've went to has let me test ride as long as I brought a helmet. They'e NOT going to let you ride one if they think you're just looking for a quick ride.


i like raptors ..but they are old and tired .. unreliable, and prone to breakdowns and general breakage ...

Mine doesn't break down, perhaps it's not the quad's fault. . .


it is the machine ... you cant beat a corvette with a mini ...

If there were such a grand differece between the 700 and the Raptor as there is between the Corvette and the Mini, you wouldn't have to resort to accusing pretty much everyone opposing you of dishonesty.

[RATPACK Z400]

too say the700xx is the best, cause it won baja 1000 is a joke the rincon also won as well that tells me if you ride a honda you have a chance to win .for one reason most dont know honda pits for free other hondas only! 95% riders ride honda look at how many hondas verse other brands you will see what im saying .id like to see the 700xx go to darkar without honda help only small pit crew and win that would be a real challege for that quad.

[scuzz]

If a polaris can a 700xx could too.

[RATPACK Z400]

only way honda wil enter is if they have clear advantage.they wont put that quad out too the true test now they need to sell a bunch first before it gets a beatdown by the other brands!

[ghouck]

Originally posted by reconranger


So what's my point here (besides making you Raptor owner's cringe)???

Why would that little bit make ANYONE cringe? It just shows those outlaws are missing something else, because I'm not anywhere close to a pro, and I've eaten many 525s up. I question those HP number because the difference between the two stock is so glaring and universal.

[RATPACK Z400]

The one thing that I always seem to run into on this forum is that the honda owners hate all other brands cause there doing MORE for there owners than honda has (IMPROVEMENTS) you watch that 700xx will get nothing as improvments (like the 250 300,400,450) it may get BOLD NEW GRAFIXS two years from now! HA HA!

[scuzz]

I don't hate any one brand and happen to think the raptor is one of the best ATV's to come out since the 400EX.

[Backstabber]

The 700xx is really a great machine!!! I love the Raptor as well, both are amazing quads and kick @$$ in the trail. I bought the Honda for the huge amounts of ground clearence. We all had the same issue last season and it was ground clearence. The trails had puddles in the middle of them and our rear axles would drag, wont be an issue with the 700xx. My friend who owns a yfz450 rode my xx and he came back with the look of a kid on christmas morning. This machine doesn't feel heavy and is an absolute rocket ship! Here is some video I've taken over the last few weeks with my helmet cam. The rappys haven't made it out yet but they will eventually. I ride with a fully built 700r and 660. I have no biased opinion, I like them all. This machine just had the complete package for me.:devil:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjWSAquoI3I&feature=channel_page

[fulltiltrider]

reading through this thread I find it funny that the wet weight of these machines are 480+lbs. No wonder these raptor and other big bore owners are so surprised when I buzz past on my 350lb wet trx310p/v R. Long live the 2 stroke!!! lol Let the bashing begin. hahaha

[coryatver]

Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
The one thing that I always seem to run into on this forum is that the honda owners hate all other brands cause there doing MORE for there owners than honda has (IMPROVEMENTS) you watch that 700xx will get nothing as improvments (like the 250 300,400,450) it may get BOLD NEW GRAFIXS two years from now! HA HA!


honda gets it right the first time. If its not broke don't fix it. How about the yamaha banshee it had hardly any updates in like 25 years.

[ghouck]

Yea, like that ex250? You know, the one that gets beat by 90s of a fairly regular basis. I think you got it all crossed up: HONDA doesn't seem to do improvements despite the need, while YAMAHA got it right the first time with the Banshee. LOL @ the guy claiming to buzz past Raptors, , the 250s maybe, , good one. .

[fulltiltrider]

Originally posted by ghouck
LOL @ the guy claiming to buzz past Raptors, , the 250s maybe, , good one. .

Not trying to start a war here but, My R is 350lb wet, with a 310 esr p/v cylinder ported by Neil @C-Leigh Racing putting out around 58 hp to the wheels. Now Im not saying it will beat totally modded raptors but the majority of raptors I see are not modded with more than a pipe, efi controller, and a cam. Being there is over 100lbs in weight difference I dont care if you got 70hp Im buzzing by:D

I know they will beat me in the long run past say a 1/8 mile drag but how many 1/8th mile sraights do you find in the woods lol.

[ghouck]

So your point is that a completely race modded quad can beat a semi-modded quad. Boy, big surprise there. :rolleyes:

Your weight comparisons are a joke anyways, as is your "buzz right past", yet know you'll get beat on the trails and past 1/8th mile.


"Buzz right past" is what you admit happens to you out past the 1/8th. Yawn. . .

[fulltiltrider]

Originally posted by ghouck
So your point is that a completely race modded quad can beat a semi-modded quad. Boy, big surprise there. :rolleyes:

Your weight comparisons are a joke anyways, as is your "buzz right past", yet know you'll get beat on the trails and past 1/8th mile.


"Buzz right past" is what you admit happens to you out past the 1/8th. Yawn. . .

No chance that well built r would get beat in the trails by a 4 poke, aint happening. You have to remember the restrictions that were set in place even before they banned the 2 strokes in mx and xc, 265cc's. No wonder it was fair. Drop a 350pv in there and let them go head to head and see what happens lol. Its common knowledge that the newer 4 strokes rev higher than a 2 stroke. My R signs off at about 8000 rpms. A stock 450 revs to 10,500 rpms, hence why they go faster in the long run. Like I said how many 660ft straight aways do you find in the woods. Im not tryin to argue with ya man, I run with them all on a regular basis, build them on a regular basis, and if one is fast enough to beat my r I just pull out the hammer lol

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb183/jwhandel/Picture20033-1.jpg

[holtz]

my question is, have any of you actually rode a 700xx ? i have owned both and i like the honda better, don't get me wrong, the raptor is an excellent quad as well but the honda is alot more comfortable. it all depends on what is most comfortable to you. the honda 700 has plenty of power but isn't the greatest in the sand due to the independent rear but it is one hell of a hill climber, i enjoy climbing hills more on the honda then i did on the raptor. but to each his own.

[sc400ex_rider]

im sure honda will make a SRA for the XX to silence all the critics. they have been to busy building F-1 cars with 20k rpm v 8 engines. yamaha HASNT BUILT A CAR ENGINE since the 92 taurus SHO.......... LOL PWND.......

[toMKat]

Originally posted by ghouck
Yea, like that ex250? You know, the one that gets beat by 90s of a fairly regular basis. I think you got it all crossed up: HONDA doesn't seem to do improvements despite the need, while YAMAHA got it right the first time with the Banshee. LOL @ the guy claiming to buzz past Raptors, , the 250s maybe, , good one. .

ummmm.... sorry but isnt the honda 250r one of the best quads ever assembled??? in fact all you yamaha turds call your local yamaha engineer and ask them what the YFZ450 is based off... yea... thats right... the honda 250r.

I was just on craigslist a couple weeks ago and this guy whose wife was havin tripletts was sellin his honda 250r, due to tripletts and no other reason, and there was literally like 5,000 bids on it and he sold the thing for 9,000. so until i see a bidding war and a sell price near 10,000 for a chromed out tubro bad *** banshee, honda rules the roost.

bottom line... most all quads are decent enough. if ppl didnt have a preference... how the hell would we all get our testosterone out! lol

[RATPACK Z400]

Yeah and the 250r was based off the suzuki 250r so what! honda just improved it as did the rest of the brand,s ,there,s really only one kind of frame design that everybody,s copying for year,s cause they cant figure how to really improve.and it work,s.Not to down your quadzilla(awesome quad) but it,s wheels spins like there on ice in wet/muddy condition,s 4stroke would smoke you though but if condition where dry and no mud you would have a chance, speed in the woods isn,t all you need handling too and I seen for myself ,we took quadzilla for ride in wet conditions he had to turn back and go home cause the quad was bouncing off tree,s everytime he hit the gas wasn,t getting traction at all, wheel,s in rear just spun in place not trying to say quadzilla,s suck they just have too much wheel spin to gain traction it woods when wet/muddy.

[yamahahaha]

I am a die hard yamaha fan but hondas 250r is a sweet fast bike, iv seen 250rs beat banshees and vice-versa, I wouldnt bash a 250r cuz it would beat most stock sport bikes today

[08525IRS]

Originally posted by holtz
the honda 700 has plenty of power but isn't the greatest in the sand due to the independent rear but it is one hell of a hill climber, i enjoy climbing hills more on the honda then i did on the raptor. but to each his own.

I agree with everything EXCEPT IRS quads not being performers in the dunes. I have an IRS outlaw and it runs great in the dunes you just need to learn how to ride the suspension.

[RATPACK Z400]

The only thing with the 700xx just like the 700 kawi was is there too heavy and are gonna need lots of mods to get them to climb the hills as fast and high as the other quads ,we took the kawi 700 out when it came out to PA and my z could out climb it do to its weight it just dug in the shale and stop moving and im willing to bet the 700xx will do the same not trying to be a prick thats just my take on the whole thing.You know its funny Nobody gives Suzuki the credit they deserve for designing the first 250r race quad honda just treaked it ! suzuki,s quads were that good ,but were over shadowed by the new hondas,then the ban hit and suzuki never got there comeback till 2003 With the Z to put the 250r in retirement and let 4-strokes rule the world!

[sparks 450]

well it seems like alot of people were wrong about the honda 700xx. It is heavier than the raptor but it is 2 mph faster,handles the ruff stuff better. As usual they dont seem to have any problem winning races.

[oilguy]

raptor easy choice

[Backstabber]

700xx easy choice.:macho

[coolrunnings]

700xx all the way, I just rode a raptor and it beat the holy hell out of me. If your ''RACER JOE'' who wants to prove something go straight axel, but if you love the smooth irs and awesome quality get the 700xx. The rapt just doesnt impress me at all.

[wannaride4]

I am new the fourm thing, find some of it interesting. I have never rode with the honda 700, but I have rode with 2- 700 raptor's. And my polaris 525irs does most everything better, it drag races, jumps, climbs by far better, they both are the same on wheelie's. But I will say the 700 raptors will drift and slide better then mine, my 525irs will do the same but not near as easy as the solid axle of the raptor. His raptor is a blast to slide and drift with, they do spine around real nice. But anyway my choice would be neither. It would be by far the polaris 525irs.

[coolrunnings]

Originally posted by wannaride4
I am new the fourm thing, find some of it interesting. I have never rode with the honda 700, but I have rode with 2- 700 raptor's. And my polaris 525irs does most everything better, it drag races, jumps, climbs by far better, they both are the same on wheelie's. But I will say the 700 raptors will drift and slide better then mine, my 525irs will do the same but not near as easy as the solid axle of the raptor. His raptor is a blast to slide and drift with, they do spine around real nice. But anyway my choice would be neither. It would be by far the polaris 525irs.
Of course the 525irs is the ultimate...you own it...lol.

[wannaride4]

To be honest I am pretty open to new idea's. I am always one to look at the best of different wheeler's. So come ride with me and show me something better, for the rough stuff, power wise, jumping, hillclimbing, wheelie's and ground clearence for the all around riding. There are several wheeler's that can do what the 525irs and some that can do some things better, but there are few that is as good of an all around machine.

[debo]

not too smart to post this in a yamaha forum....take it to the honda page an see the difference

[voodoo-rider365]

I have an outlaw 500 and with mt ITP holeshot HD's it has very little body roll. By far the best tire for the Outlaw. Even in the dunes i prefer IRS. I ride in pretty small dunes where the chop from other riders is just amazing.:rolleyes: LOL I love my IRS there. The only place i have a disadvantage is on the whoops. IRS does notta lika duh whoops...uh.:p I prefer irs any day. Just not the XX. It is heavy and ugly and the rear suspension design is stupid. The rear shocks tops are in and the bottoms are out. That is just beggin for body roll. The outlaws shocks are close to vertical.

By the way the 525 outlaw weights 35-40 pounds more than a 450.:eek:

The XX needs some work, but has potential...give it a few years.;)

The raptor has amazing potential in the afermarket world which is why most raptors are awesome... with 15000 in it most other quads qould be too.:eek:

[Backstabber]

Originally posted by voodoo-rider365
I have an outlaw 500 and with mt ITP holeshot HD's it has very little body roll. By far the best tire for the Outlaw. Even in the dunes i prefer IRS. I ride in pretty small dunes where the chop from other riders is just amazing.:rolleyes: LOL I love my IRS there. The only place i have a disadvantage is on the whoops. IRS does notta lika duh whoops...uh.:p I prefer irs any day. Just not the XX. It is heavy and ugly and the rear suspension design is stupid. The rear shocks tops are in and the bottoms are out. That is just beggin for body roll. The outlaws shocks are close to vertical.

By the way the 525 outlaw weights 35-40 pounds more than a 450.:eek:

The XX needs some work, but has potential...give it a few years.;)

The raptor has amazing potential in the afermarket world which is why most raptors are awesome... with 15000 in it most other quads qould be too.:eek:

Haha, you must be an engineer since you know so much about the suspension design. I've raced fully built raptors with my xx and yes, they're fast. The XX actually have as much or more potential than the raptor. The XX unplugged from the stock parts is insanely fast. A lot of people are posting about the xx with no prior knowledge. I have a few vids of me racing raptors with fully built motors, both a 660r and 700r. Take a look at the XX's capabilities and power in my vids!!! Take the time to educate yourself! Thanks:devil:



http://www.youtube.com/user/fastfirstgen

[voodoo-rider365]

I said the XX has potential. I have sat on one and seen one inn action. They are fast until you hit a corner. The baja racers say that you have to turn waaay early. When i sat on it i could rock it side to side like a boat.

When it first came out i swear i had a brick woody.:D Until i saw it.

[ScreaminAlways]

I have an 87 trx250r ported 310 cylinder airstryker carb, boysen cage, k&n, full fmf, hot rods crank, hinson clutch and i beat my buddies new yfz450r all the way around. I went to st. joes a month ago and a stock 700xx beat me down badly. I would definitly consider getting one.

[09RappySe]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Backstabber
[B]The XX actually have as much or more potential than the raptor. :devil:


Wrong, the XX is limitted in its head design which will limit its power when getting up in the mods, you will never get the amount of flow out of the xx head as the raptor.

[quadmanw]

thats the stupidest looking quad i've ever seen. i like honda and yamaha. but i ride my buddies 700r and theres nothing faster than that. thew 700xx makes honda look stupid. 700r all the way

[hotrodhonda400]

Originally posted by quadmanw
thats the stupidest looking quad i've ever seen. i like honda and yamaha. but i ride my buddies 700r and theres nothing faster than that. thew 700xx makes honda look stupid. 700r all the way

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :D :D :rolleyes:

[700xxmaniac]

i like my trx700xx over the raptor... i beat my ferinds raptor and he has a gytr pipe and airfilter

[XC_Raptor700R]

This is all a matter of preference, I personally like solid rear axle sport quads and I'm used to them and know what to expect. Stock vs. stock, the Raptor wins period. When mods start getting thrown at them both, well the Raptor has a much bigger aftermarket, the possibilties are endless. The 700R is the top selling sport quad which helps aftermarket demand. I doubt the Honda will ever match the Raptor in aftermarket parts. Just try to buy rear wheels smaller than 11" with different offsets ??? and then look at your options for tires. If you are beating Raptors with a XX, then you are a much better rider.

[700xxmaniac]

Originally posted by XC_Raptor700R
This is all a matter of preference, I personally like solid rear axle sport quads and I'm used to them and know what to expect. Stock vs. stock, the Raptor wins period. When mods start getting thrown at them both, well the Raptor has a much bigger aftermarket, the possibilties are endless. The 700R is the top selling sport quad which helps aftermarket demand. I doubt the Honda will ever match the Raptor in aftermarket parts. Just try to buy rear wheels smaller than 11" with different offsets ??? and then look at your options for tires. If you are beating Raptors with a XX, then you are a much better rider.

the guy on the raptor 700 bin riden a manal tranny quad for to years me 10 days he showed me how to shift right...so no he was the better rider and he said him self the the xx is faster than the raptor 700....

get over it the 700r is no longer the king of the hill....yes the raptor is gona do better on a track but thats it the xx is better at trails....dunes....snow....ice....road...feilds... .fast open riden....every thing else

a raptor in 4 years has never won a baja title the xx has won the 250, 500, and 1000 x2


had you ever riden a xx be4..


oh alota ppl have put 10inch rim on a xx.....and i seen xx with 59wrhp with stock piston....and new stuff is coming out every day for the xx....

here is some video proof (not me)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfMZvTXBv-o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBggtkpWkSs

[09RappySe]

Originally posted by 700xxmaniac
the guy on the raptor 700 bin riden a manal tranny quad for to years me 10 days he showed me how to shift right...so no he was the better rider and he said him self the the xx is faster than the raptor 700....

get over it the 700r is no longer the king of the hill....yes the raptor is gona do better on a track but thats it the xx is better at trails....dunes....snow....ice....road...feilds... .fast open riden....every thing else

a raptor in 4 years has never won a baja title the xx has won the 250, 500, and 1000 x2


had you ever riden a xx be4..


oh alota ppl have put 10inch rim on a xx.....and i seen xx with 59wrhp with stock piston....and new stuff is coming out every day for the xx....

here is some video proof (not me)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfMZvTXBv-o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBggtkpWkSs

Who cares about the baja. If you think you are now king of the hill everywhere except the track, take a trip to norfolk and I will take you to school. 59 hp ain't squat for a 500+ pound quad. The XX is a nice bike for rough terrain due to the IRS but thats about it.

[700xxmaniac]

Originally posted by 09RappySe
Who cares about the baja. If you think you are now king of the hill everywhere except the track, take a trip to norfolk and I will take you to school. 59 hp ain't squat for a 500+ pound quad. The XX is a nice bike for rough terrain due to the IRS but thats about it.

the be real hp is what seals quads.... torque win races and the xx has alot more torque than a raptor....

[XC_Raptor700R]

Originally posted by 700xxmaniac
the xx has alot more torque than a raptor....
since when ??? the XX engine is a copy of the Raptor and what proof do you have that the XX has "alot more torque than a raptor" ??? come on, get real !!! The XX weighs way more than the Raptor with a copied engine, do your homework then come back to argue ... and how many high budget teams have tried the baja races on a Raptor ???

[09RappySe]

Originally posted by 700xxmaniac
the be real hp is what seals quads.... torque win races and the xx has alot more torque than a raptor....


I'm pretty sure I have you in both, you better study a few more dyno sheets before you make that claim, Untill you can get that bike closer to 400 pounds and can make 80+ hp all motor you better stay on the porch. I will gladly drag you anytime you are ready....but you won't be happy.

[tayyo789]

Originally posted by XC_Raptor700R
since when ??? the XX engine is a copy of the Raptor and what proof do you have that the XX has "alot more torque than a raptor" ??? come on, get real !!! The XX weighs way more than the Raptor with a copied engine, do your homework then come back to argue ... and how many high budget teams have tried the baja races on a Raptor ???

The xx is not a copy of the raptor engine. It is based off of the extremely succussful xr650r powerplant. I have an xr hybrid, with only an intake, and exhaust, and it made 42 ft/lbs of torque at 1500 rpm. If a raptor can do that with those few mods, then I'll believe you about the torque. Raptors may be nice quads, but it seems everyone who rides one considers it to be the greatest thing since quads were invented.

[09RappySe]

Originally posted by tayyo789
The xx is not a copy of the raptor engine. It is based off of the extremely succussful xr650r powerplant. I have an xr hybrid, with only an intake, and exhaust, and it made 42 ft/lbs of torque at 1500 rpm. If a raptor can do that with those few mods, then I'll believe you about the torque. Raptors may be nice quads, but it seems everyone who rides one considers it to be the greatest thing since quads were invented.

Well you are right about one thing, the XX engine is not a copy, it is way limited in its head design compared to the raptor, and untill you address that, good luck getting the same power out of the XX as the raptor, I never said it was the "best" quad...but it is the best for me. Don't know anything about your Xr hybrid, but that is not an XX, nor is it the same motor...so that means nothing, show me an XX that makes 80+ hp, and untill they do....I,m not worried.

[tayyo789]

You know something your right, its not the same motor. Its revised, refined, and with newer technology. So it must make less power. Im going to put my money that you have not had both a xx and a raptor head held in front of you for you to decide which one flows better. Stock, the raptor should be better all around. These big bored Honda's respond better to mods than people think. As far as making 80 hp, sure your raptor might, but how much do you have into it? To me, it looks like you spent a very pretty penny to get 80 hp. Im positive with that much money into another bike you could get 80 again.
Oh one more question: why does everybody think that on a track is the only time that matters? The raptors going to beat the xx on the track every day due to the straight axle. Its comparing apples to oranges, ON THE TRACK.

[09RappySe]

You know I am not going to argue with you, it sounds like you need to do some reading on the head design between the two before you put your hard earned money up.....let me know what you come up with.......

[700xxmaniac]

Originally posted by 09RappySe
You know I am not going to argue with you, it sounds like you need to do some reading on the head design between the two before you put your hard earned money up.....let me know what
you come up with.......

i know that the xx is limmited by its stock head but bo white is gona make a bilit head for it....

[09RappySe]

I know one is in the works, and Bo is a stand up guy...when he gets it done it will be kick ***, but might be $$$$, and then we will see.

[XC_Raptor700R]

Originally posted by tayyo789
As far as making 80 hp, sure your raptor might, but how much do you have into it? To me, it looks like you spent a very pretty penny to get 80 hp. Im positive with that much money into another bike you could get 80 again.
Oh one more question: why does everybody think that on a track is the only time that matters? The raptors going to beat the xx on the track every day due to the straight axle. Its comparing apples to oranges, ON THE TRACK.

It doesn't cost as much as you might think to make 80 hp in the Raptor and it can still run on pump gas. It would also cost at least as much to make that much hp in the XX, probably more. And who said we are all track riders ??? I'm not, I suck at MX but I can hold my own at XC.

[tayyo789]

i was just observing the comparisons on not only this thread but the entire site. a lot of the comparisons are done on a track which is actually extremely one sided. the trails are what the xx was built for, but nobody compares the two in that scenario

[09RappySe]

Actually I was refering to the everything OTHER than the track comment, I ride trail/drag and after ridding an XX I don't feel at a disadvantage one bit, I will say they absorb rough terrain better than the raptor, but they have way too much body roll in the turns for me, almost like ridding a jet ski on land, and I don't think you will hit 80+ hp with the XX, aside from spray/turbo, with the limitted aftermarket parts and head design, I could be wrong but I have not seen one even close yet.

[hotrodhonda400]

whats with the body roll i'm alway hearing about i'ts not like it is about to flip on it's lid in turns ...it's no where near as dramatic as everyone acts it really a very stable quad. as far as a raptor beating a XX who cares the Honda is very well built and so is the raptor it is all preference in the end for me the XX is a better choice which is why i bought one.:cool:

[hotrodhonda400]

09RappySe aren't you also registered on the 700xx club website? :confused:

[tayyo789]

body roll, cant powerslide.....its a completely different type of quad. you have to learn how to ride it. if you ride it like a straight axle, you'll notice the body roll. you have to ride it like an IRS quad, and it will feel great.

[hotrodhonda400]

yes I know this I have both types of quads and yes the IRS CAN powerslide with minimal body roll I can do it without a problem

[hotrodhonda400]

Originally posted by tayyo789
body roll, cant powerslide.....its a completely different type of quad. you have to learn how to ride it. if you ride it like a straight axle, you'll notice the body roll. you have to ride it like an IRS quad, and it will feel great. Btw I have been riding for around 26 years so Experience might have an advantage here;) my first atv was the first atv A suzuki lt125 which had NO suspension :D

[tayyo789]

same here. any suspensions better than none. ive learned that the hard way.

[09RappySe]

I agree it is a preference thing, and yes, I am registered on 700xx club, got no real problem with the XX, I just had to comment on the XX is now the king of the hill everywhere but the track crap when I know it to be false, and i have also been ridding awhile...but no real expereience with IRS and I don't care too, I just don't like the way they handle, does not make them bad, just not for me, maybe I will see some of you at hatfields in june.


Peace

[700xxmaniac]

Originally posted by tayyo789
body roll, cant powerslide.....its a completely different type of quad. you have to learn how to ride it. if you ride it like a straight axle, you'll notice the body roll. you have to ride it like an IRS quad, and it will feel great.

it can power slide.... just like u said u need to ride it like and irs

[knipdm01]

My buudy just bought a 700xx and I have a 700r completey stock. Hes a new rider and I've been riding trails and ofroad parks for 5 or 6 years. I'm a die hard Yamaha fan. I had paddles he had stock tires. He could beat me in the top end in a drag race.....it would be very close if we both had paddles.....he can ride faster than me because the suspension soaks up so much its easier to ride faster without it beating on you.....it doesn't feel heaver and ride is amazing......jumping is harder to get air because of the irs soaking up the lip at the top of the jumps. the 700xx floats at high speed its impressive. Until you ride one you can't imagine the ride it has. I still live my rapotr but I give props to the 700xx and as I get older I would seriously consider one for trails and dunes. Don't think the 700xx is slow....is not. I think it could beat a raptor stock for stock in a straight line. And a raptor might be faster on a track if the rider can handle the abuse, but if hes taking it easy so hes not getting bumped around the 700xx will surpass with its smooth riding. Overall I sill love how my 700r jumps and looks, but for comfort and speed the 700xx is very nice.

[hotrodhonda400]

wow you just about summed it up!, for those who did not understand his post,THE 700XX IS AWESOME !!!:D :D :D ;)

i have a 400ex with a 440 kit and ill beat the breaks off any 700 raptor as long as thay dont have a turbo or spraying the baby bot.

[09RappySe]

Originally posted by ericcrip
i have a 400ex with a 440 kit and ill beat the breaks off any 700 raptor as long as thay dont have a turbo or spraying the baby bot.

Bring your little 440 to norfolk or busco beach after you reach puberty and I can arrange an *** whopin for ya. Now go back to school I hear the bell ringing.

did i get u up set ? dont cry it will be ok after i show you a thing or (2) can we all just get along lol:D

look do get up set with me im trying to help a friend out with his 07 700 raptor i have run 5 or 6 (700 raptors)and i have beat them all. so im sorry u got up set . just go to uion county dragway uion sc look at the pic my son jupmed on my friends 700 and was a 350 sheeeeeeeee theres pics to prove it and pics of us putting the beat down on both of them. so im sorry that the 700 cant and will not out run me........

[09RappySe]

Who got upset?, you are the one that made that completely stupid comment and I don't need to go to your dragway....you could'nt touch me on your best day...hell my LTR would smoke you, assuming you even have a bike since you did not even know what a spark arrester was...get off the computer your mommy needs it.

440, What a joke

(ok *** clown). i did know what it was, just was not thinking at the time and i replyed after i thought about it. and it was not stuppid to say what i have done and can do. 700 raptor is not all that for a 700 my 440 will smoke your *** all day son. so go play with your tonka toy.

[09RappySe]

If you say so Jr, but I bet I won't be seeing you anytime soon so you can "smoke" me....but anytime you are ready just let me know....in fact why don't you come to busco on the 28th for the drag race so you can beat us all or will you be in school that day.
If you can beat me I got no problem admitting it...don't see it happening though.
otherwise put up or shut up.

see you there.(I doubt it)

Peace

ok oooooooo k i love you to cant we all just get along:devil: :D :p

[AtvFan2010]

Bahahahahaha! That kid thinks a 440 whatever he has will take a ltr with a 500bbk haha! I dont care if its a z or ex but the 440 along with alot of other work is only supposed to be able to compete with "stock" 450's haha. And on the subject I've rode both the raptor 700 and the xx and the raptor in my book is much much better in almost every way. They are both great bikes nothing against the honda but the raptor will smoke it all day. The xx handels like a 700lb 4x4 and has almost as much bottom end power as a 400ex haha.. Now the xx's top end is pretty impressive but thats it really. Oh and the xx is stupid as hell to work on. Honda came up with the bright idea to tourque everything down with 150lbs of force so you cant work on it haha I had to drill out the freaking air filter bolt that holds it on because it would not come out and i tried wverything! Oh everything is jamed into one tiny space that normal american hands cant fit into lol. :D

[AtvFan2010]

Hahaha I'd race that 440ex with my freakin outlaw.. I've got more than what my signature says though. I've beaten 2 bored and stroked ex's two weeks ago at the tri county drag races and i have the time slips to prove it haha.

[700xxmaniac]

Originally posted by AtvFan2010
Bahahahahaha! That kid thinks a 440 whatever he has will take a ltr with a 500bbk haha! I dont care if its a z or ex but the 440 along with alot of other work is only supposed to be able to compete with "stock" 450's haha. And on the subject I've rode both the raptor 700 and the xx and the raptor in my book is much much better in almost every way. They are both great bikes nothing against the honda but the raptor will smoke it all day. The xx handels like a 700lb 4x4 and has almost as much bottom end power as a 400ex haha.. Now the xx's top end is pretty impressive but thats it really. Oh and the xx is stupid as hell to work on. Honda came up with the bright idea to tourque everything down with 150lbs of force so you cant work on it haha I had to drill out the freaking air filter bolt that holds it on because it would not come out and i tried wverything! Oh everything is jamed into one tiny space that normal american hands cant fit into lol. :D

honda 700xx stock vs stock has more bottom, mid and top end hp and torque. its bin proven many times on dynos.

as for every thing bolted down a normal amarica should have the strength to losen them just make sure u us a #3 screw driver on a #3 screw ect derrrr.

the chain is easier to adjust, the tb is easer to get to. the shock are easier to adjust, all the oil drain bolts are easier to get to, valves are easier to adjust, and u dont have to take of the side of the engine to get to the clutch. the only thing i found harder is changing the sprockets and cleaning the chain.

and the xx handles great u just gota lean to ride irs and it feels lighter than a raptor.

i dont think u ever riden a 700xx.

i was going to buy a 09 700 se then i rode the 700xx. as forr top speed the raptor has a prover top speed of 78mph the xx has a proven top speed of 85mph.

well peace im gona go ridin smell ya later.:macho

[09RappySe]

Originally posted by 700xxmaniac
honda 700xx stock vs stock has more bottom, mid and top end hp and torque. its bin proven many times on dynos.

as for every thing bolted down a normal amarica should have the strength to losen them just make sure u us a #3 screw driver on a #3 screw ect derrrr.

the chain is easier to adjust, the tb is easer to get to. the shock are easier to adjust, all the oil drain bolts are easier to get to, valves are easier to adjust, and u dont have to take of the side of the engine to get to the clutch. the only thing i found harder is changing the sprockets and cleaning the chain.

and the xx handles great u just gota lean to ride irs and it feels lighter than a raptor.

i dont think u ever riden a 700xx.

i was going to buy a 09 700 se then i rode the 700xx. as forr top speed the raptor has a prover top speed of 78mph the xx has a proven top speed of 85mph.

well peace im gona go ridin smell ya later.:macho

First of all I am not knocking the XX, but I have seen no dyno sheets that shows what you claim and for it to be valid they would have had to both be run on the same dyno same day ect, not that it matters since most people don't ride a "stock" bike and once you get up into the mods thats where the two bikes part ways and the raptor says bye bye to the XX. as far as shocks, I'm sure they are easier to adjust in a sense since they have much less adjustability than a raptor but are just as easy to get to, as for the rest chain, valves ect I doubt they are any easier to do there is equal amount of "stuff" in the way, and I have to disagree on the XX feeling lighter than a raptor and yes I have ridden one, as for top speed who cares, its all about gearing and weather you have the power to get there against wind resistance.

The bottom line is ride what you like and be happy.

[700xxmaniac]

Originally posted by 09RappySe
First of all I am not knocking the XX, but I have seen no dyno sheets that shows what you claim and for it to be valid they would have had to both be run on the same dyno same day ect, not that it matters since most people don't ride a "stock" bike and once you get up into the mods thats where the two bikes part ways and the raptor says bye bye to the XX. as far as shocks, I'm sure they are easier to adjust in a sense since they have much less adjustability than a raptor but are just as easy to get to, as for the rest chain, valves ect I doubt they are any easier to do there is equal amount of "stuff" in the way, and I have to disagree on the XX feeling lighter than a raptor and yes I have ridden one, as for top speed who cares, its all about gearing and weather you have the power to get there against wind resistance.

The bottom line is ride what you like and be happy.

there some reviews out there that have a dyno sheet of the 2 and the xx makes 2 more hp on the bottom and mid an 3on top. i think the xx get more hp with the big3 fmf xx vs fmf 700r and its limited cause of its head but the xr650 has seen 70+ on stock bore so the xx needs a bilit head. and ill beat that it will make 75 hp on stock bore.

[09RappySe]

Well it may make 2-3hp more stock, but with the added weight it does'nt amount to much in terms of power to weight ratio, and like I said I have not seen both bikes run on the same dyno.From the dyno sheets I have seen a 3 mod XX puts out around 42-45hp to the wheels which is on par with the raptor.Again I know there is/was a billet head in the works, but not many are going to be willing to pay $1000+ for a head and then HP numbers remain to be seen.

[AtvFan2010]

Haha 700xxmaniac I've rode my friends 700xx plenty of times to know what I'm talking about.. JDironcross on the 700xx forum his xx. But anyway i've never head or seen anything anywhere saying the xx has more bottom end power than a raptor and I know how to ride irs you retard I own an outlaw duhh! And btw my outlaw smokes the xx out of the hole just not in the top end. And guess what else I have time slips to prove it. Oh and who cares about top end speed haha its geared stupid high and is completely unnessicary. You seem like a honda fanboy that wont admit that honda really messed up on this one.

[tayyo789]

The xx is not a bad bike. Sure, it weighs 50 pounds more than a raptor. It is a completely different type of machine than the raptor. Its a different machine than the outlaw even. The outlaw rides more like a straight axle than any other IRS bike out there. The xx rides like a utility. It reminds me of a Renegade. But nobody would dare compare it that...

u go 09rappyse give them hell opps crappy rappy lol just playing think the rappy is a nicer bike to me i dont have one or the other but i have road the crappy opps haha rappy and it dose run well and heands down looks way better.... lol gooooooooo440ex lets ride

[700xxmaniac]

Originally posted by AtvFan2010
Haha 700xxmaniac I've rode my friends 700xx plenty of times to know what I'm talking about.. JDironcross on the 700xx forum his xx. But anyway i've never head or seen anything anywhere saying the xx has more bottom end power than a raptor and I know how to ride irs you retard I own an outlaw duhh! And btw my outlaw smokes the xx out of the hole just not in the top end. And guess what else I have time slips to prove it. Oh and who cares about top end speed haha its geared stupid high and is completely unnessicary. You seem like a honda fanboy that wont admit that honda really messed up on this one.

outlaws ride completely different yes it has irs but it rides more like a sra due to a bigger sway bar and better stock tires. i will say honda ****ed up on the sway bar for the xx. but the smaller say bar gives it a really smoth ride. if the 700xx had razars stock they would sell a lot better cause with razars the xx is a whole new quad compared to the stock pos dulops. ive never race a outlaw 500 but ive beat preds be4 and i got beat by a pred with a cam. and ive beaten a 525 on the top end.

[09RappySe]

Where honda screwed up was The XX is just not what MOST big bore quad enthusiasts wanted, which is an SRA quad and sales show it...I don't think tires have anything to do with it or would affect sales one bit as most people change tires, exhaust ect anyway.

[AtvFan2010]

I can believe that you were beaten by a pred with a cam.. and yes you should take 525's on the top end pretty much the xx takes everything in top end... I think its the second fastest quad in history... The quadzilla has an offical top speed of 93 or something haha. But yeah if they would have put a 10inch rim and 22's even on the rear the xx would have sold alot better.. The xx does have quite a bit of noticeable body role wich can be fixed but just takes money. And 440ex's blow figured I'd add that in there since the ericcrip kid thinks his 440 is soooo fast bahahaha..

[700xxmaniac]

Originally posted by 09RappySe
Where honda screwed up was The XX is just not what MOST big bore quad enthusiasts wanted, which is an SRA quad and sales show it...I don't think tires have anything to do with it or would affect sales one bit as most people change tires, exhaust ect anyway.

if u look at all sales of atv there way down ever sines the economy went south i think the should have released it earlier like in 07. yamaha had the worse sale this year in there history. same with honda, polaris, kawasaki, and suzuki.

and tires make a huge difference with the xx. and when ppl dont have to much $$$ they can only get a stock quad.

[09RappySe]

Originally posted by 700xxmaniac
if u look at all sales of atv there way down ever sines the economy went south i think the should have released it earlier like in 07. yamaha had the worse sale this year in there history. same with honda, polaris, kawasaki, and suzuki.

and tires make a huge difference with the xx. and when ppl dont have to much $$$ they can only get a stock quad.

I aggree, the economy has affected all sales across the board, but they are still making raptors for 2010 and 2011 and they are not giving them away either like the XX and are still able to sell them, just in smaller numbers. Tires make a big difference on all quads, and the way I see it, if you don't buy a quad because you can't afford to put tires on it, you need to re-evualuate your priorities and should not be buying one in the first place. I don't know anyone who has chosen a quad by what tires it came stock with.

[XC_Raptor700R]

I finally was able to follow a 700XX down a trail and watch the IRS ... I was stunned at how much the rear end jumped from side to side. It didn't track straight at all for even a second. It appeared that he was riding as hard as he could, while I was just cruising along and trying not to laugh at the way that rear end was swapping from side to side.

[tayyo789]

Originally posted by XC_Raptor700R
I finally was able to follow a 700XX down a trail and watch the IRS ... I was stunned at how much the rear end jumped from side to side. It didn't track straight at all for even a second. It appeared that he was riding as hard as he could, while I was just cruising along and trying not to laugh at the way that rear end was swapping from side to side.

Its people like this that cause these pointless arguments to keep dragging on. :rolleyes:

[09RappySe]

Who's arguing...I call it conversation.

[700xxmaniac]

Originally posted by XC_Raptor700R
I finally was able to follow a 700XX down a trail and watch the IRS ... I was stunned at how much the rear end jumped from side to side. It didn't track straight at all for even a second. It appeared that he was riding as hard as he could, while I was just cruising along and trying not to laugh at the way that rear end was swapping from side to side.

lol looks can be deceiving.

this is for atvfan look i dont think that my 440ex is fast. dume a** i know its fast we run ever friday night at the drag stris and i have the time slips to show what it can do. so for the one that say o he thinks hes so fast i will drive with in a 100 miles of my home to race u down that track. and i live in chester sc 29706 just let me know and im there. ps im just trying to push the latest thing and thats drag quads.

[XC_Raptor700R]

Originally posted by 700xxmaniac
lol looks can be deceiving. I would like to see how much improvement a set of dialed in shocks would make. It can probably be eliminated almost completely. I doubt the Baja XX acted like that, but I can't believe how much the one I followed did it.

[700xxmaniac]

maby he was trying to see what happend when u ajust the front preload. i know if u ajust them all the way down it makes it feel a lot more stiff

[700xxmaniac]

i miss this thread so bump

[boosted660]

i got to ride a 700xx and i got to say it rode like a dream, it so plush. i would not trade my rappy for it but its felt like a great bike did not have the low end grunt that the rappy has (but still no slouch) so all in all its no rappy but good job honda for makeing a biger , more lowend powered bike to compear to the 660 and 700. ps ugly as all hell;)

[yama450yfz]

Originally posted by WoofersInc
The Honda is coming with IRS rear end. It is also substantially heavier as the listed weight for it is 508 LBS. Unless power is up big time on the Honda there is no way it will keep up with the Raptor. The IRS rear doesn't impress me either. It is ok for slow technical stuff but for high speed desert riding or dunes it has it's drawbacks.
That's why it won BAJA and the San Felipe 250?? I don't think you know very much about this quad at all. Yes a Raptor will beat it in a drag but as far as big bores go Honda hit the nail on the head they are made for enduro cross all the way.

[09RappySe]

The XX is not a bad bike....but the Baja and such don't mean much, dump enough money into most bikes and give them the support that honda provides and most can do the same.

[89trx250r]

Although the TRX700XX is a relative newcomer in the class, it already has back-to-back Baja 1000 wins in its first two years of production. Second the raptor would lose in a drag race to the 700xx because when the raptor was wishing for another gear the 700xx flys right by. Third ive ridden both i weigh not nearly as much as someone who would purchase this quad so my opinion doesnt mean jack i ride a 250r and yfz's but personally i will tell you the 700r isnt all its hyped up to be and that unless your a racer( lol who the hell races raptors) the 700x ****s all over the raptor and my suggestion is go out there and get some seat time instead of getting seat time in your arm chair debating **** you know nothing about lol even if the 700xx was 10x better then the raptor no die hard raptor fan would admit that just the same for the 700xx owners it all comes down to personal preference and with that said im going to go work on my 250r the greatest production race quad ever made and the longest lasting cause its a honda :)

[09RappySe]

The XX is no drag quad there buddy, and a drag race is a short run, so the top end of the XX means nothing in a drag race, I assure you, you could not touch me in a drag race on an XX regardless what you have done to it. And like I said who cares about the baja. And before you start I do have seat time on the XX and prefer my raptor by a long shot, I would not trade it for two XX's.

[hotrodhonda400]

Originally posted by 09RappySe
The XX is no drag quad there buddy, and a drag race is a short run, so the top end of the XX means nothing in a drag race, I assure you, you could not touch me in a drag race on an XX regardless what you have done to it. And like I said who cares about the baja. And before you start I do have seat time on the XX and prefer my raptor by a long shot, I would not trade it for two XX's.

then quit lurkin around here waitin to talk trash about the XX, go ride your raptor!

[09RappySe]

Originally posted by hotrodhonda400
then quit lurkin around here waitin to talk trash about the XX, go ride your raptor!

Who is the one lurking.....this is the raptor section is it not?, and who is talking trash.

[89trx250r]

The XX is no drag quad there buddy, and a drag race is a short run, so the top end of the XX means nothing in a drag race, I assure you, you could not touch me in a drag race on an XX regardless what you have done to it. And like I said who cares about the baja. And before you start I do have seat time on the XX and prefer my raptor by a long shot, I would not trade it for two XX's.

hmm i didnt know lengths were specified lol i assure you i would whoop your *** unless you were to scared to run full out and also who the hell would want to trade you for a raptor or even 2 bro yamaha are good but there no honda and i would put money on the line my little 250r would take a **** on your raptor 700 in any drag race lol so thats not saying much for your raptor id prefer the comfort and quality of the 700xx over the sra of the raptor any day and lets be honest that is the only differance

[hotrodhonda400]

Originally posted by 09RappySe
Who is the one lurking.....this is the raptor section is it not?, and who is talking trash.
your right my bad this crap goes on so much I still thought I was on the xx board consider me gone !

[09RappySe]

Originally posted by 89trx250r
The XX is no drag quad there buddy, and a drag race is a short run, so the top end of the XX means nothing in a drag race, I assure you, you could not touch me in a drag race on an XX regardless what you have done to it. And like I said who cares about the baja. And before you start I do have seat time on the XX and prefer my raptor by a long shot, I would not trade it for two XX's.

hmm i didnt know lengths were specified lol i assure you i would whoop your *** unless you were to scared to run full out and also who the hell would want to trade you for a raptor or even 2 bro yamaha are good but there no honda and i would put money on the line my little 250r would take a **** on your raptor 700 in any drag race lol so thats not saying much for your raptor id prefer the comfort and quality of the 700xx over the sra of the raptor any day and lets be honest that is the only differance


You know this subject is really pointless to argue, I mean really...both are outstanding bikes and perform really well in their area, so I am not going to play the I can piss farther than you game, your 250R maybe fast, may not be depending on what has been done, I really could care less, we were talking about the XX not your two poke.... but make no mistake in 300' I am no slouch....am I the fastest, no, but I can hold my own. two strokes and four strokes are completely different animals, so how your 250R got into the mix, I have no idea and don't care either, so go try to pull someone elses chain there jr.

Hotrod: Its all good.

[hotrodhonda400]

Hotrod: Its all good. [/B][/QUOTE]

cool man:cool: I just get tired of the pissin matches ya know.. I really did get mixed up on which board I was on :D all in all we all are on these boards because we love quads and they all are different and have thier own purpose . ;) good times man !

[09RappySe]

Originally posted by hotrodhonda400
Hotrod: Its all good.

cool man:cool: I just get tired of the pissin matches ya know.. I really did get mixed up on which board I was on :D all in all we all are on these boards because we love quads and they all are different and have thier own purpose . ;) good times man ! [/B][/QUOTE]

I agree completely.

[700xxmaniac]

if i had the money i would have a xx, 700r, renegade 800, and a commander 1000....all of them are best at doing what they were ment to do

[09RappySe]

Originally posted by 700xxmaniac
if i had the money i would have a xx, 700r, renegade 800, and a commander 1000....all of them are best at doing what they were ment to do

I can't argue with that. if you find that money tree, send me some seeds. :D

[hotrodhonda400]

Originally posted by 09RappySe
I can't argue with that. if you find that money tree, send me some seeds. :D

sign me up for the $$ tree seeds, cause id take one of each of those as well :D

[700xxmaniac]

and ive heard them the 1000 can keep up with a sock r, or xx

[700Xxrida]

here is a vid of the xx vs the raptor
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/775/Motorcycle-Video/2010-Yamaha-Raptor-700R-SE-vs--2010-Honda-TRX700XX.aspx

[XC_Raptor700R]

Originally posted by 700xxmaniac
and ive heard them the 1000 can keep up with a sock r, or xx

On a straight line road, but not when it gets rough and a little tight. The 700R is the current best selling sport quad for a reason, the XX isn't being produced any more due to lack of sales, short lived for such a machine that was supposed to be the "Raptor Killer". See a 700R at a Yamaha dealer near you for one of the 2011 models !

[hotrodhonda400]

Originally posted by XC_Raptor700R
On a straight line road, but not when it gets rough and a little tight. The 700R is the current best selling sport quad for a reason, the XX isn't being produced any more due to lack of sales, short lived for such a machine that was supposed to be the "Raptor Killer". See a 700R at a Yamaha dealer near you for one of the 2011 models ! the 700xx has not been dropped from the line up. all of Honda sport quads were over produced forcing them to drop model years look for production to restart mid 2011.

[XC_Raptor700R]

I would like to find how many of each have been sold since the XX was released. I'm not saying the Raptor outsold the XX but I am curious to see the numbers. I know this info is available but not sure where to get it. Actually I would like to see sales numbers for all the makes and models.

[700xxmaniac]

all atv sales have droped heavely over the last year.... yahama droped the raptor 350, kawi droper the kfx700,, honda hasnt droped nothin... and sale are down because of the economy

[hotrodhonda400]

^^ yup what he said ^^ :cool:

[700xxmaniac]

brraaaapp.... hade to get it outa my system

[MXin700R]

Originally posted by 700xxmaniac
all atv sales have droped heavely over the last year.... yahama droped the raptor 350, kawi droper the kfx700,, honda hasnt droped nothin... and sale are down because of the economy
Yamaha dropped the 350 Raptor because the 250 does almost everything better, it was forseen IMO when the 250 came out that the 350 would either be replaced or dropped all together. Kawi dropped the KFX700 because it wasnt good at anything in that market it competed in.

[tayyo789]

Originally posted by MXin700R
Yamaha dropped the 350 Raptor because the 250 does almost everything better, it was forseen IMO when the 250 came out that the 350 would either be replaced or dropped all together. Kawi dropped the KFX700 because it wasnt good at anything in that market it competed in.


Both those machines have been nearly irrelevant for years. If what your saying is true, they would have been dropped long before now

[XC_Raptor700R]

Originally posted by 700xxmaniac
all atv sales have droped heavely over the last year.... yahama droped the raptor 350, kawi droper the kfx700,, honda hasnt droped nothin... and sale are down because of the economy

What do you mean Honda hasn't dropped anything ??? Please show me a 2011 Honda sport quad ... and how many 2010's are available ???

Here is the 2011 Yamaha lineup which includes 6 different sizes including the Raptor 350 ...

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modeloverview/cat/2011/57/model_overview.aspx

[tayyo789]

Honda has put production on hold temporarily. That doesn't mean that they dropped their sport lineup. It is simply postponed. Yamaha has slowed production, but not fully halted it.

[MXin700R]

Originally posted by tayyo789
Both those machines have been nearly irrelevant for years. If what your saying is true, they would have been dropped long before now
Sales on the 350 were strong enough not to discontinue until the 250 release.

[tayyo789]

The Warrior/Raptor 350 has been doomed since 1999, when the first 400ex came out. Yamaha would have done a lot better if they had produced a 400 class machine, with an improved chassis to compete with them. If they had, they would still be producing them

[XC_Raptor700R]

Originally posted by tayyo789
The Warrior/Raptor 350 has been doomed since 1999, when the first 400ex came out. Yamaha would have done a lot better if they had produced a 400 class machine, with an improved chassis to compete with them. If they had, they would still be producing them

OK ! whatever ... now I know the Warrior/Raptor 350 is no high performance machine and I wouldn't put it in the same class as a 400EX, but how can you say it "has been doomed since 1999" while it has been produced every year since, including 2011. So who is still producing what ??? Shall we ask one of the laid-off Honda employees ?

[tayyo789]

By saying doomed, I was referring to its relevance in the market. Its competition blew it out of the water, and Yamaha failed to fight back. One can only hope they don't make that mistake with the Rhino.

[XC_Raptor700R]

Well in that case I see your point. The Warrior has been produced since 1986 ('87 model year) so it's been technologically behind for several years, however it still sold well enough to continue production. Yamaha also designed new models along the way so if the 350 is ever dropped, they have plenty of other models to keep customers happy. The 700R is the top selling sport quad year after year, not the XX.

[hotrodhonda400]

Originally posted by XC_Raptor700R
Well in that case I see your point. The Warrior has been produced since 1986 ('87 model year) so it's been technologically behind for several years, however it still sold well enough to continue production. Yamaha also designed new models along the way so if the 350 is ever dropped, they have plenty of other models to keep customers happy. The 700R is the top selling sport quad year after year, not the XX.

I agree that the XX will most likley never be a top selling unit in it's class, usually who shows up first gets the market share and XX was to late to the party. The XX is also a niche machine for riders who are looking for a smoother ride and a capable all around quad ( not sayin the raptor isnt a capable all around quad) but many are closed minded to I R S and think it's a handicap verses a asset ... To me I fit the niche I ride 95% woods so high ground clearance and smooth ride in a sport package is what i was looking for... when this bike came out I wasn't sold but after years of being beat up by my 400ex it started looking better and better :)

[XC_Raptor700R]

Originally posted by hotrodhonda400
I agree that the XX will most likley never be a top selling unit in it's class, usually who shows up first gets the market share and XX was to late to the party. The XX is also a niche machine for riders who are looking for a smoother ride and a capable all around quad ( not sayin the raptor isnt a capable all around quad) but many are closed minded to I R S and think it's a handicap verses a asset ... To me I fit the niche I ride 95% woods so high ground clearance and smooth ride in a sport package is what i was looking for... when this bike came out I wasn't sold but after years of being beat up by my 400ex it started looking better and better :)

I know what you mean, I'm getting old and want a better ride, especially from the rear. I just don't want to be limited on a MX track or in high speed corners with a IRS. I'm going to buy a Grizzly for smooth trail cruising and keep my 700R for the fast stuff. I'm not giving up on fast sport quad riding yet, but once my body won't take it any more, then I'll hang it up. You also make a good point about the 700R beating the XX to the market share, but Yamaha started this class in 2001 with the 660, so Honda is WAY late for the party, and the DS650 tried but was also like the XX and is way too heavy to compete.

[MXin700R]

I dont agree, if Honda had stepped up to the plate and took Yamaha head on with a TRX450 style chassis and a better cylinder head/valvetrain design it would have soared the sales figures.

[f4iracer]

the 700xx may not be as quick but it's definetly a much cushier ride.

The craptors are junk, always have been, they are just a big honking motor with no power. I'd rather run a yfz 450 like i used to have, those are meant for power.

I mean look at all those old 660's.....that's 660cc's that will barely keep up with a 450. They're craptors.

[09RappySe]

Originally posted by f4iracer
the 700xx may not be as quick but it's definetly a much cushier ride.

The craptors are junk, always have been, they are just a big honking motor with no power. I'd rather run a yfz 450 like i used to have, those are meant for power.

I mean look at all those old 660's.....that's 660cc's that will barely keep up with a 450. They're craptors.

What makes them junk? can you list the KNOWN issues they (700) suposedly have acording to you? I bet not because there are not any to speak of....thats why they are the #1 selling big bore sport quad. period, they did not make it to the top of the food chain because they suck...so go blow smoke somewhere else.

No power you say...I know you don't want to line up next to me with that little ex you have unless you want to repaint you front end.

[MXin700R]

When you see someone build a stock bore stock stroke 450 that pushes out over 80hp and over 55ftlbs of torque with off the shelf parts then we will let ya come back and talk in the grownup section.

[hotrodhonda400]

Originally posted by f4iracer
the 700xx may not be as quick but it's definetly a much cushier ride.

The craptors are junk, always have been, they are just a big honking motor with no power. I'd rather run a yfz 450 like i used to have, those are meant for power.

I mean look at all those old 660's.....that's 660cc's that will barely keep up with a 450. They're craptors.

lol I knew that dudes comment would open up that can of worms :D

[tayyo789]

I would LOVE to see the dyno saying that a stock bore/stroke raptor hits 80 hp, without turbo or spray. They run strong, but thats a little out there man

[MXin700R]

Ask and you will recieve:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h15/Bo_White/54vs44.jpg

[MXin700R]

There are more 80+ hp std bore std stroke N/A 700 Raptors out there than most realize. Most top shops build these all the time.

[MXin700R]

So then what does a bigbore stroker make? Some are making a a few clicks under 100hp.

[tayyo789]

Say what you want about me, but I still have my doubts. I know its near impossible to prove, but that dyno very well could come from a different bike, or yours after that 105mm went in. Stock bore is 102, thus yours isn't stock bore.I can see how the stock one can make a lot of power, with very high compression, and a damn good head guy doing your work, but I'm still skeptical of 80. Plus all dyno's are different. I have literally seen dyno's that differ as high as 10 hp. There's one guy here in Oregon who's numbers are inflated, and he gets the most business. I took my hybrid to him, and 2 others and the others ended with about 6hp lower, but I still beat my buddies in a drag race who are getting 70 out of their raptors, while I'm only getting 55hp and 50 ft/lbs. If you can find a way to prove to me that your dyno is legitiment and actually with stock bore/stroke, I will believe you. Until then, I'm still going to have my doubts.

Oh, and my biggest problem with everybody's obsession over peak hp numbers: When are you ever going to ride around at 8k and up where your bike actually makes that power? I've never seen it. Peak numbers really don't mean anything if you shift before you hit them.

[MXin700R]

My bike was a 105mm bore before I sold it, I dont have it anymore. This bike in the dynosheet was built with off the shelf 102mm 12:1 CP piston, off the shelf HDD5050 Web cam, off the shelf cnc +2 valve porting, off the shelf DMC Force 4 duals and off the shelf White Knuckle 54mm TB and intake. The 70hp pull on that sheet was with the same parts but stock 44mm TB and FCI intake- which is the accepted amount of power that type of build makes. The bike baselined with the Big 3(DMC Force 4 duals, Trinity intake and PCIII) at a touch over 50hp which is the accepted amount of power that a Big3 equiped 700 Raptor makes:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h15/Bo_White/kevinbase.jpg

[MXin700R]

That bike at the track(on stock suspension with no wheelie bar) before the TB and intake swap when it made 70hp,:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h15/Bo_White/th_big6.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/albums/h15/Bo_White/?action=view&current=big6.flv)

[MXin700R]

Originally posted by tayyo789


Oh, and my biggest problem with everybody's obsession over peak hp numbers: When are you ever going to ride around at 8k and up where your bike actually makes that power? I've never seen it. Peak numbers really don't mean anything if you shift before you hit them.
I can agree too but look at the dynosheet on that build, with over 40ftlbs of torque from 2500rpm to 5000rpm and over 50ftlbs from there on up its a handfull no matter the gear your in or the throttle position.

[MXin700R]

Since we are on the subject of unbelieveable HP builds, lets see what a big bore stroker 700 can make:

804 cc(105.5mm bore, 8mm stroker crank)

CUERVO RACING +2 head
HDD5050 Camshaft
WK52mm tb




hit 91 on a few runs but here is a nice clean sheet
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b357/dcloveridge/quads%20and%20trucks/90hp.jpg

[MXin700R]

That bike at the hill:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB4CrrPZarI&hd=1

[tayyo789]

Originally posted by MXin700R
I can agree too but look at the dynosheet on that build, with over 40ftlbs of torque from 2500rpm to 5000rpm and over 50ftlbs from there on up its a handfull no matter the gear your in or the throttle position.


Oh I know what its like to ride that kind of power. My hybrid, when it had 10:1 compression, stock bore, stock stroke, with a stage 1 HRC cam and only a 40mm carb made 42 ft/lbs at 1800 rpm. Thing went up dunes as fast as it went on the flats. Now I'm boring, stroking, porting, camming, and going to a 46mm carb, cuz my dads ds650 can beat me now.


I'm not going to deny the obvious, raptors can flat haul when they're built right. I just don't see as many of them that are as fast as people say they are. Honda tried something new with the xx. It's not as popular, because it has a more limited market. As said before, that does not make it a bad bike by any means. However, I am a firm believer in the xx's engine. My bike has literally almost the same motor, and I can tell you from experience that it can outrun MOST raptors. Of course there will always be that one guy out there that spent more money than you and wants to rub it in your face with a paddle full of sand. If Honda would produce that motor in a SRA chassis, and replace the head with the xr650r head, since they ARE interchangeable, they would have a definate winner. Call me crazy, but I think even dirtwheels would agree.

[MXin700R]

I agree as well, the XR650R head would be a better choice but its limited on the intake side just like the XX head. Theres a build on the club700xx forum with a XR head thats maxed out with 40mm valves and alot of welding and I dont think its even going to be on par with the CNC Raptor 40mm heads.

[tayyo789]

I have an xr head in my garage with 41mm intakes. Don't have it on yet, since I'm at school, but it will be soon enough

[MXin700R]

So what does that hybrid idle at? 1800rpm is about what I would expect one to idle at.
41mm valves is alot of valve for such a small port.

[09RappySe]

Originally posted by MXin700R
Theres a build on the club700xx forum with a XR head thats maxed out with 40mm valves and alot of welding and I dont think its even going to be on par with the CNC Raptor 40mm heads.

We will see how it compares after all that work....it went in for flow testing along with my new +2 head cut for a 54mm TB....should be back any day now......I think mine is gona win!!!